lapinou changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.01.0 announce at http://bit.ly/1851A3R | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<appleby> can soemone explain to me this code
<appleby> let display_map = fun (geomap:G.widget) xml_map
<appleby> specifically the geomap:G.widget part?
<Drup> it's a type anotation
<Drup> geomap is the name of the argument, G.widget is the type
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<appleby> oh okay
<appleby> class or object?
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<Drup> well, it's a type
<Drup> so it can't be an object
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<bicgena> ive never used functional programming languages before (only some messing around with HTML and CSS when i was like 13 and some FORTRAN for science research) and im getting used to it. all our problem sets are in OCaml and its like meditating on zen koans. i look at a problem for a looooong time, then type the answer.
<Drup> :D
<Drup> there is a paper called "the zen of functional programming" or something like that.
<appleby> Drup
<appleby> can you explain to me this code
<appleby> let create_geomap = fun switch_fullscreen editor_frame ->
<appleby> let geomap = new G.widget ~srtm:!srtm ~height:500 ~projection:!projection () in
<appleby> so create_geomap is a function? which returns the value of fun switch_fullscreen editor_frame?
<appleby> where switch_fullscreen is the name of another function?
<appleby> and editor_frame is its argument?
<Drup> no, those are the arguments
<appleby> ok
<bicgena> Drup: http://archive.is/0PfZw this?
<Drup> "let f = fun x y z = ..." ≡ "let f x y z = ..."
<appleby> so switch_fullscreen and editor_frame are the arguments to create_geomap?
<Drup> hum
<Drup> "let f = fun x y z -> ..."*
<Drup> bicgena: not the one I have in mind
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<Drup> neither
<Drup> I don't find it right now :/
<Drup> appleby: yes
<Drup> appleby: you should factor the argument in the function declaration, it's nicer
<appleby> this is a library
<Drup> not important, but nicer
<appleby> not my code
<Drup> which library ?
<appleby> Paparazzi UAV
<bicgena> Drup: did you feel the same way as I about Ocaml? :)
<appleby> so everything that is evaluated after the -> would be the return of the function?
<Drup> appleby: yes
<Drup> appleby: but keep in mind it can return a function too
<appleby> k
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<Drup> bicgena: well, I almost started programming by ocaml, so it's a little bit different for me
<Drup> bicgena: but I do have this feeling of enlightenment when trying to write stuff in a dependently typed language like Agda.
<Drup> (usually, without a lot of success :D)
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<bicgena> Drup: wow,... almost started programming by ocaml? you don't hear that often
<bicgena> then again, it seems like some university courses are using ocaml as a first language
<bicgena> especially French ones
<Drup> bicgena: it's pretty common for a certain category of french student =)
<bicgena> why do you think that is?
<Drup> because it's in the official program
<Drup> :D
<Drup> "where the student happily applied the remainder of his appetite." <3
<Drup> bicgena: thanks for the link, it's hilarious x)
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<covi> In what places do I need to use 'in' after 'let x = ..' and in what places do I not need to (e.g. inside a 'struct..end')
<Drup> everytime it's a top level declaration, you don't add the in
<Drup> because there is nothing to be in :)
<Drup> (inside a struct, it's conceptually still the top level of a module, even if this module is inside another one)
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<bicgena> Drup: once i tough of using a while loop in a problem and i felt really ashamed afterwards. also when i finish a problem and its 10 lines of code, but i know it can be written more elegantly in less lines of code, i get frustrated.
<bicgena> though*
<Drup> I don't have any issue with while loop, except they are not powerful enough for what I want most of the time.
<bicgena> why not?
<bicgena> you just use recursion?
<Drup> most of the time, when people write a while loop, what they really want is a fold over something, but they juste write it with while + references
<Drup> and fold is just nicer for this stuff
<Drup> or just recursion, of course
<Drup> it's not always the case, there are counter examples, as with everything :)
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<bicgena> Drup: there are?
<bicgena> can you think of one?
<Drup> unsurprisingly, every complicated arrays walking
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<bicgena> Drup: what does that mean?
<Drup> when you want to access elements of an array in a weird order to do weird stuff
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<Drup> (usually, math or image processing :p)
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<bicgena> Drup: true, but so far our homework is elementary enough such that the purpose is for us to learn how to use recursion effectively and think in recursion. the problem in question was to write a function "few_divisors n m" where if n has fewer than m divisors, the function returns true. the meat of the problem was finding a way to find the number of divisors
<bicgena> of n, so pretty much all of us did it a brute-force way: starting from 1 (or from n, depending on if youre counting up backwards or upwards), if n mod (that number = 0), then count that number as a divisor.
<bicgena> Drup: at first i was like "wha how do i write an algorithm to find the prime factorization i didnt think the class would be that advanced" but then i realized this was the most accessible way to do it
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<Drup> you can do the prime factorization quite easily, if not very optimized =)
<bicgena> Drup: how?
<Drup> star the scaning for divider from 2, if you find a divider k, store k and look for the divider of (n/k) again
<Drup> hum, I should have gave hint instead of telling you ::
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<bicgena> Drup: okay, I ignored what you said, could you give me a hint instead?
<Drup> :D
<Drup> bicgena: first, imagine you have a method to find a prime divider of a number, how would you compute the prime decomposition ?
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<bicgena> Drup: I don't know
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<gasche> ggole: tail-recursion modulo constructors can be expressed in Mezzo using destination-passing style
<gasche> (this is also what we (unsafely) use in Batteries to write tail-recursive List.map without reversing lists)
<ggole> gasche: I'm pretty sure you can get rid of the write barrier, too
<ggole> Or almost get rid of it: by moving it just before the call to the gc
<ggole> (From what I can tell, code is so cold there it might as well not exist.)
<gasche> I don't know about that, but it's true that destination-passing style has a very simple region typing
<ggole> How does Batteries do it? Just Obj.magic?
<ggole> eg, with a mutable record type.
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<flux> yes
<ggole> Right.
<ggole> Shame to have to hack up the source like that.
<gasche> a pet projet thunk of mine is to implement those functions in Mezzo, and compile that back to OCaml
<gasche> unfortunately Mezzo's prototype is not yet ready to "extract" libraries (as opposed to complete progras), or provide an OCaml FFI
<avsm> gasche: would work through a ctypes ffi :-)
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<bernardofpc> gasche: would that be easier (to write/maintain) than to write the corresponding C function for List.map ?
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<adrien_oww> well, for List.map, doing it in C is going to be quick and simple
<adrien_oww> but then you'll have to do everything again for other functions
<ggole> Hmm, OCaml emits some very strange code for functions with many arguments.
<adrien_oww> how so?
<ggole> Redundant instructions, puts the arguments in two locations, etc
<adrien_oww> are you sure it's not the call convention?
<ggole> I'm not sure what the deal is with the two locations (it's some on the stack, some in vector called caml_extra_params)
<ggole> The extra instructions are pretty obvious (although not that big a deal)
<ggole> They look like movl $k, %eax/movl %eax, 8(%esp)
<ggole> There's no point enregistering the constant.
<adrien_oww> C stub?
<ggole> Then after that, they're copied from the stack into caml_extra_params.
<ggole> Well, it's caml_applyK
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<gasche> bernardofpc: I like writing typed code better than writing fast code; having a use of Mezzo for performance reason would be fun, while I have no particular interest in writing C
<gasche> of course if people know how to write correct C functions and want to contribute, pull requests are welcome
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<companion_cube> o/ gasche
<adrien_oww> actually for List.map there might be a big issue: you need an ocaml function so you're essentially calling OCaml from C and that's not very fast
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<ggole> You could write it in assembly.
<ggole> (This is not the best idea.)
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<bernardofpc> adrien_oww: oh, I didn't know that C calling OCaml would be slow
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<bernardofpc> (the other way around is "fast", or is it just "equally slow" ?)
<bernardofpc> (in that you have to put some glue for the calling conventions etc)
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<adrien> bernardofpc: calling C from OCaml is fast: a few insns
<adrien> the other way round is at least 10 times more expensive iirc
<pippijn> the other way around is a closure call
<adrien> there's at least a lookup involved (once and then can be cached) but I think that after there is still more work
<adrien> well :P
<pippijn> calling C from ocaml is a direct function call
<pippijn> you could hack the closure call out if you're sure something is not a closure, then it can be an indirect call
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<pippijn> or even a direct call if you know the function you're calling at compile time
<companion_cube> it's using caml_apply?
<companion_cube> that must look at the arity of the function, and see whether all arguments have been provided or not
<pippijn> I wonder how it does that
<pippijn> where is the metadata stored of the function arity?
<ggole> In the closure structure afaik
<companion_cube> I'd think it was in the function code itself
<companion_cube> but the closure does contain the number of arguments it captures
<companion_cube> (so you need to compute closure_num + arg_num and see whether it's equal to the expected arity)
<companion_cube> (if it's smaller you create a new closure)
<ggole> I don't think c functions are called directly, either
<ggole> They go through caml_c_call
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<pippijn> hm, you're right
<ggole> Although the arguments are pushed to the stack
<ggole> Interesting hack there
<pippijn> probably for exceptions
<pippijn> not the hack
<pippijn> I mean the function
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<ggole> Wonder why the stack pointer is adjusted rather than just addressed with an offset
<pippijn> good question
<ggole> Perhaps the fault handler expects esp to be in a particular state?
<pippijn> maybe 16K doesn't fit in the indirect addressing insn
<pippijn> hm, or that, maybe
<pippijn> makes more sense
<ggole> Nah, x86 allows 32-bit displacements
<ggole> (One of the advantages of variable width instruction encodings.)
<companion_cube> maybe it's to communicate information to the page fault handler
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<flux> hmm, opam doesn't have a linear algebra library available?-(
<flux> I'm particularly interested in affine transformations..
<flux> (2d)
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<flux> BLAS is probably overkill..
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<flux> hmm, didn't someone announce a vector library at ocaml mailing list..
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<smondet> flux: some there https://github.com/UnixJunkie/vector3 and maybe there http://erratique.ch/software/vg ?
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<flux> there is! gg
<flux> smondet, right, gg is related to vg
<flux> vector3 only has 3d vectors
<flux> so no transformation matrices
<flux> but gg seems very promising, and bsd3 licensed
<flux> though my opam doesn't find it for some reason..
<flux> well whaddayaknow, I already had downloaded gg :)
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<adrien> well, it's surprising that vg or gg wouldn't be on opam considering the only way to install it is to use opam
<adrien> (if you're looking for me, I'm already outside)
<Drup> flux: gg/vg are not on the general opam, you can add them with his personnal opam repo
<flux> so there is this commit saying 'pkgify' after which _oasis is gone and pkg directory arrives..
<flux> how do I install that thing?-)
<adrien> flux: you read the opam data
<adrien> (or do as Drup said)
<companion_cube> vg is on opam
<companion_cube> (at least on my current version of opam)
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<flux> indeed, should be there: http://opam.ocaml.org/pkg/gg/gg.0.8.0/
<flux> right, and adding that repo just fails because opam is too old..
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<flux> time to update then I suppose
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<flux> so it says to remove the old version of opam
<flux> how do I even do that? does it have with an uninstallation procedure? or nuke my whole ~/ocaml ?
<companion_cube> when you have installed the new opam, it will upgrade ~/.opam
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<flux> actually ~/ocaml/.opam for me but yes, so I need to move that directory away
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<smondet> flux: you can keep the .opam, it's opam itself that needs update, right?
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<flux> why would it be concerned about the existing opam binary?
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<smondet> you said your opam is too old
<flux> yes
<flux> so rm `which opam` did remove that particular warning from opam
<smondet> and indeed older versions of opam do nothandle the new format of the repo
<smondet> hmm, you had more than one opam :)
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<flux> the downside of using a library is that one needs to *gasp* familiarize oneself with its interface
<flux> but maybe a relatively complete matrix library is worth it instead of whipping it up on your own :)
<troydm> does = check for string equality between two strings in Ocaml ?
<troydm> like "a" = "b" ?
<Drup> yes
<adrien> troydm: (=) applies for checking equality of any values that are meaningful to compare
<adrien> (same type for both operands of course)
<troydm> thx, i've found my bug
<troydm> was not string equality related :)
<flux> cool, Gg even comes with affine transformation support
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