lapinou changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.01.0 announce at http://bit.ly/1851A3R | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<arj> is there a simpler variant to install the same packages in a new opam configuration (using switch) than opam install `opam list -i | cut -d' ' -f1` ?
<arj> with opam list on the old configuration
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<Kakadu> I think that this solution is good enough
<ousado> arj how about export/import
<ousado> ?
<arj> ousado: sounds promising :) thanks
<arj> but it exports version numbers.
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<arj> How can I specify in oasis that I require some ocaml version?
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<sagotch> ola!
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<adrien_oww> anyone know where the doc for GC debug messages are?
<adrien_oww> I'm getting lots of "!<>" printed when I run with OCAMLRUNPARAM="v=63
<adrien_oww> "
<adrien_oww> and have no idea how to interpret them
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<hcarty> adrien_oww: It's a cylon duck?
<adrien_oww> :D
<adrien_oww> I think I need to clean up my screen, get the ocaml sources and grep
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<adrien_oww> actually some more stuff looks like: !<>!<>!<>!<>!<>!<>!<>!<>!<>!<>!<>!<>!<>!<>!<>!<>!<>!<>!<>$<>$<>$<>$<>$<>$<>$<>$<>$<>$<>$<>$<>$<>$<>Starting new major GC cycle
<ggole> Did my message go through?
<ggole> <ggole> ! looks like the mark phase of a major slice collection, and <> are the begin/end of emptying the minor heap. Are you getting $s too?
<ggole> $ is the sweep phase.
<adrien_oww> it hadn't
<adrien_oww> I actually get !<> and $<> at once
<ggole> Internets is a bit flaky today :/
<adrien_oww> hmmm =/
<adrien_oww> ok, thanks for
<adrien_oww> $
<adrien_oww> ggole: your description makes sense
<ggole> I peeked at the source.
<adrien_oww> in any case, I think I make much more garbage than I had though
<adrien_oww> t
<adrien_oww> heh :)
<ggole> OCaml is pretty garbage happy
<ggole> What with closures and tuples and floats and int32s and all
<adrien_oww> if I write : let f () = Lwt.return () >>= fun () -> .... >>= fun () -> ...
<adrien_oww> are there allocations for each of these "fun" each time I call "f" or is only once upon definition of f?
<kaustuv> each time
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<adrien_oww> thanks, was afraid of that
<adrien_oww> and if I have
<kaustuv> there's no way around it. Closures have to be dynamically allocated
<kaustuv> in a strict language at least...
<adrien_oww> let f () = Lwt.return () >>= g >>= h
<ggole> Escaping ones do
<adrien_oww> will that avoid allocs?
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<adrien_oww> however, I'm using a local variable from these "g" and "h"
<adrien_oww> well, for stats but
<ggole> If g and h are local to f and use its variables, they're basically just names for fun () -> ...
<adrien_oww> yeah, I put them out
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<kaustuv> You can usually guess the allocation behaviour from -dlambda. Closures are allocated with "function". If you don't see these, then there are no allocated closures.
<kaustuv> For example, let f g h = return () >>= g >>= h shows:
<kaustuv> (let f/1039 (function g/1040 h/1041 (apply >>=/1036 (apply >>=/1036 (apply return/1034 0a) g/1040) h/1041)))
<kaustuv> which means that only one closure is allocated for f
<adrien_oww> ok
<adrien_oww> I've moved some of the functions and it looks like I'm allocating less but I can't tell for sure yet
<adrien_oww> unfortunately, for some, I will have to do '>>= h some_arg'
<adrien_oww> maybe I'll try to avoid the >>= operator
<ggole> Partial application also allocates
<adrien_oww> yep, which is why I might have to avoid >>=
<ggole> Even with constant arguments :/
<ggole> OCaml doesn't compile functions very aggressively, I guess.
<kaustuv> but here there are no partial applications. >>= is always fully applied
<adrien_oww> hmm
<ggole> I was assuming that "h some_arg" referred to a partial application
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<kaustuv> ah, sure, that can be partial
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<adrien_oww> yeah, it would
<adrien_oww> thing is that fairly often I have:
<adrien_oww> >>= fun some_data -> f ()
<adrien_oww> >>= fun () -> g some_data
<adrien_oww> i.e. at one step I don't use what the previous function returned but I use it at a later step
<adrien_oww> not sure my current try reduced allocs a lot
<kaustuv> If you use the e1 >>= (fun x1 -> e2 >>= (fun x2 >>= ...)) pattern, then the closures are all allocated "one at a time". Each unpeeling of >>= will only create a single (short lived) closure.
<adrien_oww> so, when does companion_cube get all the memory profiling patches merged upstream?
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<adrien_oww> kaustuv: that's precisely what I think I might have to avoid
<companion_cube> adrien_oww: uhhhh ???
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<adrien_oww> companion_cube: :)
<companion_cube> I already have too many patches to make :p
<adrien_oww> companion_cube: ='(
<companion_cube> also, I don't know how to do memory profiling...
<kaustuv> what exact problem are you facing? Too many minor collections? If so, you can just set the minor_heap_size to something reasonably riduclous like 1M
<kaustuv> ridiculous*
<adrien_oww> kaustuv: latency
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<adrien_oww> but I'm still studying the issue
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<adrien_oww> hmmm, calls to printf
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<njcomsec> alrite
<kaustuv> I was actually shocked to learn recently that Java sets the "nursery size" to 100M by default. Clearly they have a different GC algorithm, but it is a big difference to OCaml's 32K minor heap size.
<adrien_oww> kaustuv: doesn't it have profiles too? like a server profile and a desktop one?
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<kaustuv> actually, on the "server" profile it is set to 50% of the free heap per this page: http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E13150_01/jrockit_jvm/jrockit/jrdocs/refman/optionX.html#wp999534 -- so maybe my 100M number is garbage
<mrvn> right, because half the heap would be 32G
<kaustuv> anyway, if latency is your issue, then increasing the minor heap size is probably a bad idea anyway
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<adrien_oww> gah
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<adrien_oww> I was sending my executable to the wrong machine
<mrvn> The minor heap needs to be big enough to contain local temporary data and small enough not to have overly complex structures.
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<mrvn> or just make it so big the GC never needs to run :)
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<adrien_oww> according to profiling, first cost is a C stub, second cost is minor collections
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<kaustuv> profiling only gives aggregate data over an entire execution, no? You want much more finely sliced profile information to debug latency issues
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<adrien_oww> definitely; I've written the data collection but not the printing yet :P
<kaustuv> Personally, I always solve it by writing a custom time : ('a -> 'b) -> 'a -> 'b function (and time2, time3, etc. for more arguments) and sprinkle them all over my code. They all check a global variable to see if they should do accounting or not on every call.
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<kaustuv> But this is laborious, error prone, dirty, many more negative adjectives
<adrien_oww> I'vev written: Stats.store_time stats.Stats.lock_in;
<adrien_oww> "lock_in" is the name of the current datapoint
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<kaustuv> In an ideal world we would have something like dtrace for OCaml for this use case
<adrien_oww> lttng?
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<adrien_oww> ended up adding calls to Gc.allocated_bytes wherever I collect statistics
<adrien_oww> and I compute the delta so I jknow which steps trigger the most allocs
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<klrr> does ocaml support GADTs?
<def-lkb> yes
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<mrvn> since 4.0
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<klrr> oh, then i need to grab latest version (the distribution im on right now only provide 3.*)
<companion_cube> you indeed do. GADTs are cool :)
<klrr> im reading TAPL atm, and it use ocaml so i thought i might dig into it a bit, it also seems like a pretty cool language generally
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<companion_cube> it is!
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<whitequark> AltGr: can you release new ocp-index to opam, perhaps?
<AltGr> so that you get the new --opam-lib option ?
<whitequark> yep
<AltGr> k, I'll try to do that tomorrow
<whitequark> thanks!
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<mmachenry> A lot of ocaml code I see on github have _oasis files that make a library with a made up findlib name that has no file associated. This is for naming the project and giving something to list as dependency for tests.
<mmachenry> This seems to compile just fine for me but I get a warning from _oasis when I go this "W: Cannot find source file matching module 'pcf' in library pcf"
<mmachenry> I am learning about OCaml build processes and the norms the community has for doing this kind of thing and I also dislike having warnings in my code, so I'd like to clear this up. Do projects usually do this? Is there a way I could just tell oasis to squash this warning explicitely?
<Drup> mmachenry: you use the "pack" option
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<mrvn> mmachenry: I think the warning goes away if you have a mli file.
<mmachenry> Drup: Yep. Tried it both ways.
<Drup> mmachenry: you shouldn't have the warning then, it comes from elsewhere
<mmachenry> Elsewhere meaning other than oasis?
<mmachenry> It comes from when I make.
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<Drup> give me a link, I must try directly to answer =)
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<companion_cube> mmachenry: you may need to capitalize the module name in _oasis
<companion_cube> like, Pcf
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<mmachenry> companion_cube: Hm… lots more weird errors for that.
<companion_cube> hmm hmm
<companion_cube> can you paste your _oasis file on pastebin or equivalent?
<mmachenry> yes one moment.
<mmachenry> I changed one character, "Library: Pcf" and I got the other weird errors.
<mmachenry> "Ocamlbuild knows of no rules that apply to a target named src/Pcf.mly"
<Drup> mmachenry: ok, it's just a warning to tell you that you don't have a .mli
<Drup> that's harmless
<mmachenry> Well it didn't build and it's listed as a "solver failed"
<Drup> if you had a pcf.mli, you could add some documentation in that file and some restriction on the interface
<Drup> but it's optionnal
<Drup> mmachenry: with the non-capitalized version
<mmachenry> And might perhaps get rid of the warning
<Drup> maybe
<Drup> but it's not important
<Drup> you shouldn't have the issue without pack
<mmachenry> Yeah I don't accept it gives me a warning.
<Drup> mmachenry: just remove the pack
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<mmachenry> I thought pack was necessary. Removing the pack causes it to not build.
<Drup> (you don't need it in this case, since it's an internal library)
<mmachenry> The tests fail to find Pcf
<Drup> mmachenry: just remove the line "open Pcf"
<mmachenry> No it's not internal to the tests.
<Drup> it's internal in the sens you don't distribute it
<Drup> the "pack" option is just to put all the modules inside a big module
<Drup> in order not to polute the namespace of people using your library
<mmachenry> Ah, removing the pack AND removing the open worked.
<mmachenry> Thanks.
<companion_cube> mmachenry: shouldn't the executable depend on the library?
<mmachenry> companion_cube: It doesn't seem to need to and all the code for the executable is in the same dir.
<mmachenry> companion_cube: This is not a library, really, the only thing I need is the executable file. The library is just for the test executable.
<mmachenry> Also the test main block seems to do nothing.
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<nlucaroni> hmm, is this supposed to work like it does? Printf.printf "[% *a]\n%!" 10 (fun c a -> Printf.fprintf c "%d" a) 100;;
<mrvn> do you mean Scanf?
<nlucaroni> nope
<nlucaroni> expected : [ 100], got : [100]
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<mrvn> looks like formating options don't work with %a
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<nlucaroni> Indeed. Maybe they resolved that with the GADT implementation of printf??
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<flux> (is it a documented feature that %a has formatting options?)
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<flux> wouldn't it be something like "%10 *a" anyway rather than that
<flux> oh, nevermind :-)
<flux> but but does it work with % 10a ?
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<flux> (probably not)
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<nlucaroni> no, that's an error with anything replacing a (s for example).
<nlucaroni> I couldn't find documentation
<nlucaroni> oh, i see what you mean about "% 10a", sorry read it as "%10 a" like above. both format strings return the same thing, namely [100].
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