lapinou changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.01.0 announce at http://bit.ly/1851A3R | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<struktured> any async_parallel gurus around? I've been trying to get it working for days now with no sucess. Currently, it fails with a unix timeout: exception Unix.Unix_error(63, "connect", "((fd 4) (addr (ADDR_INET 127.0.1.1 10019)))")
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<Dongyancai> Hello, where to get the request body of a POST req when using netcgi2 in Ocamlnet? (Please notice me if this question is not suitable to discuss here.)
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<companion_cube> mrvn: your btree looks interesting!
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<wwilly> bonjour
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<flux> dongyancai, it is suitable to discuss that here.. you maybe need to hook a bit lower, as it seems normally the POST arguments are available via the cgi#argument method, that is, Netcgi reads the body for you
<flux> (reads and parses)
<flux> or maybe it uses content type to determine what to do?
<flux> dongyancai, you can access file uploads via cgi argument as well. so you want the 'raw' original data unparsed?
<flux> nevertheles, perhaps you have read this but I'll point to this in any case: http://projects.camlcity.org/projects/dl/ocamlnet-2.2.9/doc/html-main/Netcgi.cgi_argument.html
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<Dongyancai> flux, thank you, I think cgi argument is enough for me. I just read the document and found nothing about POST, I thought cgi#arguments only include args from GET (this is tested).
<flux> dongyancai, I read an old source of mine and it looks like it handles both
<flux> which I suppose is a bit strange, given technically you can have both GET and POST arguments and their names could collide.
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<flux> cmdliner doesn't support putting the documentation of all commands (Term.eval_choice) into one man page, does it?
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<jdoles> What's the point of cmdliner?
<jdoles> AFAIK, there are better solutions already out there.
<jdoles> Perhaps not for OCaml, but that is not a reason to reinvent the wheel badly.
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<adrien> like what?
<adrien> (besides something based on ocaml-ty :P )
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<jdoles> adrien: I like docopt.org.
<jdoles> adrien: and, AFAIK, there is no OCaml implementation of that.
<jdoles> adrien: the domain specific language coincides with what POSIX usually uses.
<flux> seems to provide pretty same thing as Cmdliner?
<jdoles> cmdliner appears to have good backends, but the actual interface is much nicer in docopt.
<flux> I can agree that cmdliner is a bit difficult to get into
<jdoles> flux: "Lisp is also pretty much the same thing as Basic."
<adrien> code generation makes me sad
<flux> but on the other hand it provides typing that works well with OCaml - and manual pages
<adrien> I prefer it to be at runtime for such tasks though
<jdoles> adrien: there is no reason for any code to be generated.
<Drup> jdoles: unless I miss something, Cmdliner is almost a DSL and enforce posix conventions
<flux> how do I tell docopt that an argument is a list of 9 comma-separated floating point values, and if not so, it will produce diagnostics?
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<flux> cmdliner doesn't so that either, but I can just add it to it so that it works well with the rest of the system
<adrien> jdoles: I'd have to check in more details but for C it's a code generator
<adrien> and other languages are "dynamic"
<adrien> so it's a bit suspicious
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<jdoles> flux: <float1> <float2> <float3> would work just fine.
<jdoles> flux: that being said, I never needed 9 of those.
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<flux> for example when I have this in my implementation: Term.(pure (Upload.upload sigint_triggered) $ common_opts_t $ source $ start_from_line) - I can be certain that Upload.upload has these parameters passed, and they will be of the proper format, or they will have default values
<flux> and if the checks of the validity would fail, it would fail in the command line parser, so it is able to tell more accurately the location of the error..
<jdoles> flux: I see little point in enumerating all the possible predicates in some library.
<flux> jdoles, exactly my point!
<flux> I have this in cmdliner: Arg.(value & opt (some @@ map affine_matrix_of_list_parser list_of_matrix @@ list float) None & info ["camera-matrix"] ~doc)
<jdoles> flux: docopt just makes sure that it matches the described grammar. If one then expects a floating point number, someone should check for that.
<jdoles> flux: and preferably a different library should solve that problem.
<flux> jdoles, well how do I extend it to support imaginary numbers?
<Drup> jdoles: what's your point exactly ? :|
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<jdoles> flux: i=argument['myimaginarynumber']; i=your_specific_grammar_for_i(i)
<flux> jdoles, right, but at that point I've basically received a string and I'm doing conevrsions for it, after the parser has worked with it
<flux> with the above code I can get nice errors like:
<flux> tgup: option `--camera-matrix': invalid element in list
<flux> (`0.000940228,-0.0115514,0.0,0.0115514,0.000940228,0.0d'): invalid
<flux> value `0.0d', expected a floating point number
<jdoles> flux: Ok, those are nice error messages.
<jdoles> flux: wouldn't it still be possible to generate cmdliner from docopt input?
<flux> well, I think it would probably need some extending, I didn't look at the docopt grammar
<jdoles> flux: for most utilities, the cost of using docopt is very small, but bringing out cmdliner is more costly.
<Drup> jdoles: why ?
<flux> starting to use cmdliner has some cost, but extending it is relatively effortless
<flux> and you do get nice manual pages in return :)
<Drup> I mean, cmdliner is not very complicated once you used it once and the documentation is very good
<jdoles> Drup: the main cost about ocaml is starting with it and total lack of IDEs.
<Drup> the second point is not true anymore =)
<jdoles> Drup: Like?
<Drup> merlin
<jdoles> Drup: unless that magically got fixed, that doesn't count.
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<jdoles> Drup: I have used merlin less than a year ago, and then it was broken.
<jdoles> Drup: really, _really_ simple inputs failed.
<flux> merlin definitely has improved, though it still has its rough spots..
<Drup> fixed for what ? If you have bugs, I'm sure def-lkb and rks will be very happy to listen to you
<rks> I know I won't.
<Drup> x)
<jdoles> "Merlin dies very often"
<Drup> (bugs more precise than "It's broken")
<jdoles> Have a look at their "issues".
<flux> I haven't seen merlin dying on me yet
<flux> so, "works on my machine" :)
<jdoles> flux: the thing is: that is completely irrelevant.
<jdoles> Software should work on *all* systems, and for everyone.
<jdoles> CPUs rarely makes mistakes.
<flux> let's say Eclipse is very popular, but I wouldn't say it 'works' for everyone
<jdoles> make*
<jdoles> Eclipse is a PoS.
<flux> restarting eclipse is no rare fix to an issue
<jdoles> Not everyone makes crappy IDEs.
<jdoles> If you think Eclipse is the goal, then you are surely pursueing the wrong goal.
<flux> the thing is that writing a quality ide is a ton of work.. though there are some, perhaps less ambitious attempts
<flux> but I'm happy with Emacs (and lately with Merlin), so I haven't followed
<jdoles> I don't think it is a ton of work to make something useful.
<flux> yes, an example of that would probably be the Arduino IDE :)
<flux> and I think a project of that, or probably much better, level already exists..
<jdoles> I also think it reflects badly on the language; apparently the whole OCaml community was not able to make something which works.
<jdoles> A similar thing holds for Haskell, btw. There have been attempts but all of them are broken.
<jdoles> (or trivial)
<jdoles> flux: except, it doesn't work.
<jdoles> flux: try to use it for one hour on a random complex code base.
<Drup> jdoles: do you stop whining sometimes ?
<jdoles> Drup: a better question would be: why are you (currently flux and you) defending OCaml?
<Drup> (serious question, I'm really curious, because I haven't you say something else than whining)
<flux> jdoles, OCaml is a great language, regardless of the lack of popular IDEs for it?
<flux> what else should I prefer?
<flux> scala, in JVM?
<jdoles> flux: yes, that claim is just not logical.
<flux> haskell, with its even more complicated type system?
<flux> C, C++, C#, Objective C? please.
<flux> and dynamic languages are really non-starters for me
<flux> so ocaml seems like a real nice practical language that feels lean'n mean
<jdoles> flux: why are dynamic languages non-starters?
<jdoles> flux: is everything you do so complex that it needs a statically typed language?
<jdoles> flux: and why don't you go all the way then with e.g. Coq?
<Drup> xD
<flux> because they get such a mess when a project grows. when you get a value, you just need to inspect it in a dynamic fashion. you can't just say "hey, this is X, let's do this"
<jdoles> flux: that just depends on your programming style.
<flux> jdoles, yeah or why don't I do assembler, it only has integers so no problems?
<flux> well, I did some OpenCV programming in Python a year ago, and I didn't feel like the interfaces were very inspectable, or it was very apparent what values fit where
<jdoles> flux: how about D?
<flux> D might be ok, but I haven't felt the need to take a better look
<Drup> null pointer, nope.
<rks> Drup: if you know how to code, you won't have problems with null pointers ;)
<Drup> no sum types, nope.
<jdoles> You also have null pointers in OCaml, they are just called None.
<rks> :DDD
<rks> oh yes please, do continue jdoles
<Drup> jdoles: the fact you can say that just show your complete stupidity
<flux> jdoles, actually the point of option type is that you can have null pointers.. the point is that not everything needs to be null pointers :)
<Drup> but sure, go on, it's entertaining
<jdoles> In C++ you also have references.
<jdoles> (and C++ compilers generate better code)
<Drup> Suuure :D
<jdoles> (and there is a ton of libraries for C++ (and multiple production IDEs))
<Drup> you are welcome to join #cpp and have fun x)
<flux> modern C++ is better than it used to be. but, I still prefer OCaml.
<flux> for example, even modern C++ doesn't have a module system
<flux> nor does it have the lightning-fast compilation times of OCaml (pretty much a consequence of the former)
<jdoles> flux: there are practical solutions for that.
<Drup> I you say go, I'm gonna rolf quite hard
<Drup> Go*, let's not forget the capitalization.
<jdoles> Google compiles 1MLOC/sec.
<rks> rolf ?
<jdoles> rofl
<Drup> yep, typos~~ :)
<jdoles> C++ being "slow" is just a lack of proper infrastructure.
<flux> so where can I get that proper infrastructure?
<jdoles> flux: invent a better search engine ;)
<flux> sounds like a big task
<flux> where as with OCaml, well, I'm already there :)
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<jdoles> flux: that being said, I am sure that for the same project I can get the compilation times to OCaml level, when needed.
<jdoles> I don't think the ocaml compiler is that fast.
<jdoles> That's more myth than reality.
<flux> it's not. it's that c++ compilers are slow.
<flux> I think java might get pretty fast to OCaml..
<pminten> not quite I suspect, but C++ devs tend to include massive headers
<flux> s/fast/close/
<jdoles> The compilers are quite fast; the problem is repeated work.
<jdoles> (and that's a developer created problem)
<flux> so how do I get those slow compiling times in OCaml?
<pminten> the language/main implementations do kinda create that problem though
<jdoles> Sure, OCaml has a nicer module system.
<pminten> with the whole include mechanism instead of modules
<jdoles> But in the end, it appears that somehow it was not possible to create an IDE for a language which is apparently more simple in a more powerful language.
<jdoles> "powerful" being Paul Graham style.
<jdoles> I.e., completely meaningless.
<pminten> considering the most IDE supported language is Java there might be an element of "need" in the equation
<flux> it also appears it's not possible to write a c++ compiler in python..
<flux> after all, no-one's done it
<jdoles> flux: nobody said Python was great.
<jdoles> Python is like PHP once was.
<flux> well, that hardly was my point
<Drup> jdoles: the fact that you eliminate merlin of the equation doesn't make it disappear :p
<jdoles> It's just installed everywhere.
<flux> so what's your language of choice?
<jdoles> That depends on many features of the problem and the resources at hand.
<flux> so what would be your choice set of languages?
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<jdoles> Ruby, Python, Haskell, C++, Scheme, sh, C, Java, OCaml in no particular order.
<flux> so, I guess, if you needed to write a C++ compiler from scratch, you would choose C++ to do it in, because that has the best track record for it.
<jdoles> It depends on what the goal of the C++ is.
<jdoles> If the goal is to advertise "we don't go wrong", it would be Coq :)
<flux> but aren't the others truly nonstarters from the 'has done it' point of view?
<jdoles> If the goal would be "the fastest compiler on the planet", it would probably be C++.
<jdoles> Preferably, correctly proven C++ output by a Coq compiler.
<flux> ok, let's say you need to finish it within a decade.. ;-)
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<jdoles> If I would have to start from scratch, probably Haskell.
<jdoles> I can tolerate Haskell mode, but I don't like it.
<jdoles> flux: do you write *everything* in OCaml?
<flux> at home, very close
<flux> at office, none at all ;)
<jdoles> flux: what do you write at the office? Java?
<flux> for short tasks I prefer perl, sh, for tasks that are best solved with existing libraries C or C++, for tasks that require topmost performance, C++
<flux> depends, most often C, C++, currently Objective C
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<adrien> poor soul :P
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<Xenasis> andrew@haru ~/dmlenu> oasis setup
<Xenasis> findlib: [WARNING] cannot read directory /usr/lib/ocaml/site-lib: No such file or directory
<Xenasis> W: Field XOCamlbuildLibraries is set but matching plugin OCamlbuild is not enabled.
<Xenasis> Anyone any clues about this? I've googled to no avail
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<adrien> the second warning might be harmless
<adrien> the first one...
<adrien> how did you install ocaml?
<Xenasis> via pacman (on Arch)
* adrien has no arch but knows some people here do
<Xenasis> Just the PACkage MANager
<Xenasis> o.o
<adrien> yeah, I know that; I meant I have no experience with the arch package for ocaml
<Xenasis> Ah, I see
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<mrvn> Values do not match: val insert : t -> value -> (key, t) outer split
<mrvn> is not included in val insert : t -> value -> (key, t) outer split
<mrvn> What does it want to tell me?
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<Drup> that you have different scope, I suppose
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<mrvn> I don't see how. I have: module type NodeType = sig
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<mrvn> ..end module Node = functor (KV : KEY_VALUE) -> (struct .. end : NodeType with type key = KV.key and type value = KV.value)
<mrvn> No include or open of other modules
<mrvn> args, type split was redefined.
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<ski> hm, OCaml doesn't support locally declared data types, correct ?
<companion_cube> it doesn't, indeed
<ski> (except possibly if you define them inside a locally declared module ?)
<companion_cube> exactly
<companion_cube> let module Foo = ... in
<ski> i hadn't reflected before on this divergence between SML and OCaml
<ski> perhaps one reason OCaml doesn't do it, is because it's perhaps not clear that having local data types (and exceptions) be generative is a good idea ?
* ski str there was some kind of issue with applicative vs. generative functors, or somesuch, as well
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<_alephlambda> Hi. I'm student working with OCaml. I'm trying to create a read function that takes in a file name and returns and list of lines in the file. (There may be better ways to do this, but this is just one part of a larger project and I need the list returned this way).
<_alephlambda> I've pasted my code here: http://pastebin.com/LfdgmgGS
<_alephlambda> My error message is: File "reader.ml", line 18, characters 16-21:
<_alephlambda> Error: This expression has type int list but an expression was expected of type unit
<flux> _alephlambda, the problem is that the 'while' loop returns unit, but the 'with' clause ends with a type that's not unit
<_alephlambda> ah! okay, thanks
<flux> in this particular case, you might want to just use 'assert false;' after the while loop
<flux> it has the magical property of having type 'a
<flux> so it is compatible with any type (such as int list)
<_alephlambda> flux: after the `done` statement of the while loop?
<flux> yes
<_alephlambda> flux: With a single semicolon? It's giving me a syntax error.
<flux> done;(newline) assert false
<_alephlambda> flux: That gives a syntax error.
<_alephlambda> flux: http://pastebin.com/BzDK22VT
<Drup> _alephlambda: don't forge the ";"
<flux> done ; :)
<Drup> forget*
<_alephlambda> ah! that did it
<_alephlambda> thanks!
<_alephlambda> flux, Drup: back to coding. thanks for the help!
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