adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | Current MOOC: https://huit.re/ocamlmooc | OCaml 4.04.0 release notes: http://ocaml.org/releases/4.04.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<teknozulu> What's a good way to leverage the type system to make sure that func2 can only accept outputs of func1, and func1 can not accept the output of func1?
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<shon> teknozulu: If you define a datatype that is only ever used as an output of func2, and which is the input type of func1, that takes care of the first point.
<shon> Then make sure that the output of func1 is not that datatype, and you'll have covered the second :)
<shon> If you seal these in a module, then you can guarantee that no other function outside of that module will be able to produce output of that type.
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<Algebr> anyone have commentary on C++ templates as a pattern matching engine? I've seen some neat examples with factorial and compile time magic with constexpr
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<averagecake> Algebr: it's used all throughout boost
<averagecake> Algebr: and a small number of other libraries
<averagecake> Algebr: nothing new under the sun
<Algebr> I saw it was used for boost iterators
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<flux> I've used C++ for pattern matching stuff out of s-expressions
<flux> it was nice
<flux> for c++ ;)
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<jerith> Yay! There's a fixed conduit release. :-)
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<orbitz> companion_cube: I'm quite excited for 1.0!
<companion_cube> oh!
<companion_cube> well it's not there yet ^^
<companion_cube> especially since some people want to make packaging a bit more complicated :-)
<orbitz> companion_cube: Just Say No!
<orbitz> companion_cube: There is a branch I can poke around in to see waht 1.0 will look like, right?
<orbitz> I noticed a few functions missign from CCResult in 0.22.1 I' dlike in 1.0 if they aren't here yet.
<companion_cube> yes, there is a branch
<companion_cube> please open an issue!
<orbitz> companion_cube: Do you know when you plan on releasing? I want to look at it and contribute anything I can this weekend
<companion_cube> somewhere in january, I think
<companion_cube> it's going to be a mess :D
<companion_cube> I'll have to put upper bounds on my own programs
<companion_cube> and then update them for 1.0
<orbitz> haha
<orbitz> I've actually been leaning more towards usign opam pin for versioning rather than in packages
<orbitz> which doens't work in the general case
<orbitz> companion_cube: do you write opam packages by hand or do you use some tooling to automatically generate it?
<companion_cube> I write the opam file by hand
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<companion_cube> but then I use opam-publish
<orbitz> ok
<kamog> Maybe it's a silly question, but is there the pi constant predefined somewhere in the standard library?
<orbitz> kamog: not that i'm aware of, actually
<companion_cube> no, it's not defined
<kamog> hmm, that's unusual. One needs to use the 4.*.atan 1. thing then...
<orbitz> or define it
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<reynir> let pi = 3.0;; (* close enough *)
<dmbaturin> reynir: We all should strive to bring the value of pi at least up to 4.
<reynir> heh
<companion_cube> let pi = Random.float 1. +. 3. (* close enough *)
<dmbaturin> companion_cube: Reminds me how my friend once made an if ... else ... but-sometimes macro.
<reynir> haha
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<pippijn> I'm trying to use ppx_deriving (and I used it for a long time, but it recently broke): https://travis-ci.org/TokTok/apidsl/builds/188509932#L426
<pippijn> it can't find ppx_driver.ocamlbuild
<pippijn> is there a missing dependency?
<reynir> there's a package in opam called ppx_driver FWIW
<pippijn> yeah, I'm trying that one now
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<reynir> not sure why it expects ppx_driver...
<reynir> Ah, in _oasis: XOCamlbuildPluginTags: package(ppx_driver.ocamlbuild)
<reynir> what does this provide? AlphaFeatures: ocamlbuild_more_args
<pippijn> hmm
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<pippijn> reynir: installing ppx_driver worked
<pippijn> yeah, I needed that driver thing for some reason
<pippijn> a while ago.. I forgot why
<reynir> I'm guessing it's for ocamlbuild_more_args, but I don't know what that does
<pippijn> I did stuff to make stuff work :)
<pippijn> I don't want to deal with build systems, so I'm happy now
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<reynir> heh
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<snowcrshd> hey guys, newbie question: I'm going through RWO and I'm stuck trying to use Fieldslib. I tried #require "fieldslib" (I'm also running utop -ppx 'ppx-jane -as-ppx') and just get a parse error when I add 'with fields' to my module. Is there anything I am missing that should be done in order for this to work properly?
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<flux> snowcrshd, I'm not completely sure but might it be that the syntax is different from "with fields"? using ppx would suggest that there would be some other syntax, introduced with ppx and incompatible with the camlp4 syntax
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<isiah> Where could I find some sort of documentation/specification about the OCaml bytecode format?
<companion_cube> I think there are some papers about it
<companion_cube> prorbably listed on the website
<orbitz> snowcrshd: RWO is unfrotunately already out of date for many things :(
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<Drup> as for the rest, look at the code of ocamlcclean, js_of_ocaml and the ocaml bytecode compiler
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<isiah> Well...that's helpful...
<snowcrshd> flux: hmm, that makes sense. I saw a post on stackoverflow using [@@deriving fields] instead of 'with fields', but got the same error. Tried looking at fieldslib repo but there's no code there ):
<isiah> Drup: that's what I'm doing now.
<Drup> isiah: well, the pdf contains quite a bit of information ;)
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<isiah> I know (I've got that open now).
<isiah> It gives a lot of nice information about the instructions and important registers, but I was looking for the rest.
<Drup> what it doesn't contain is the actual data layout in the bytecode file, but the various code example should help with that
<isiah> For reference, I'm thinking about implementing a pure-JS OCaml interpreter.
<companion_cube> :s
<isiah> OCaml bytecode, I mean
<Drup> I would just compile ocamlrun with emscripten :D
<isiah> I'm curious about the binary layout of bytecode files.
<flux> drup, yeah "just"
<isiah> It's more an academic exercise than anything.
<flux> I seriously doubt it would be that easy ;)
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<flux> well, I suppose it could be :-o depending on the desired integration level.
<Drup> flux: it has already been done
<Drup> (it's highly deprecated, but heh, it exists)
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<isiah> I'm not saying such a project doesn't already exist. FWIW, there's already several ways to target the browser.
<Drup> sure :)
<isiah> I was just thinking of writing *yet another solution*, just to scratch an itch. I've been considering other languages/platforms, too.
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<beginner> in which module from the compiler is the check where the stdlib modules are on the host system?
<Drup> iirc, it's decided at configure-time of the compiler
<beginner> Drup: correct me if i am wrong, but the path to stdlib is as a string stored in the compiler binary?
<Drup> yes, in utils/config.ml
<Drup> oh, there is an env variable too, didn't knew that one
<beginner> Drup: You mean the OCAMLLIB and CAMLLIB variables?
<Drup> yeah
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<beginner> Drup: thats actually the reason why i am asking. I have a setup where i build the compiler on one machine zip all of it and put on the working machines. To make it work i need to set the OCAMLLIB so it finds the stdlib and not uses the path inside the binary
<Drup> why not change the configuration setup instead ?
<beginner> you cant use relative paths in the configuration step
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<beginner> the problem is if i build the compiler and then try to compile code as a different user, who has no read rights to the lib folder
<beginner> it shouldn't read at all that path if i set OCAMLLIB. or am i mistaken?
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<adrien> you should:
<adrien> 1- not do that
<adrien> if you make something that is meant to be shared, then make it shareaable
<adrien> 2- use ocamlfind
<beginner> can i write OCAMLLIB and OCAML_LIB as well?
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<jerith> yminsky: Any plans for a new edition of RWO?
<jerith> (With reference to the above conversation about various things in it being out of date.)
<yminsky> Plans, yes! We're actively working on it.
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<jerith> Excellent! :-)
<jerith> It's one of my favourite software-related books.
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<snowcrshd> yminsky: that's awesome! I was just reading RWO and thinking if there would ever be a new edition.
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<companion_cube> replacing Core with Base?
<yminsky> It really needs one. The main issue is getting the tooling up to date. Anil is cranking on that.
<companion_cube> (and async with lwt? :p)
<companion_cube> (just kidding)
<jerith> I'm not a huge fan of Core, and I don't really know why.
<jerith> I can't think of anything specific to not like about it.
<jerith> Maybe it's just that I prefer smaller standalone libraries.
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<yminsky> Well, maybe Base will be more to your liking
<yminsky> It's smaller, builds faster, but provides the necessary basics
<yminsky> We're not quite ready to advocate its use more broadly, but in the next month or so we should be there.
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<jerith> yminsky: Cool. :-)
<jerith> I generally just write my own little utilities for various things and then use libraries like yojson and lwt and cohttp and such for the heavy lifting.
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<aantron> today i learned that lwt stands for last will and testament :D
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<bookbook> hey... getting started with ocaml, keep getting this error "Error: Reference to undefined global `Core_kernel'" when using emacs to evaluate some code
<bookbook> `utop` running the same code works fine... google doesn't give any results for that exact error
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<theblatte> bookbook: are you using merlin? you need to add the packages you need to your .merlin
<theblatte> eg "PKG core"
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<bookbook> I believe I did, i have "PKG core lwt" 1 line in my .merlin
<theblatte> I have one line for each but I don't know if they syntax mandates it
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<bookbook> i don't think it matters, i think it has something to do with how i'm opening the shell in emacs, with tuareg i do C-c C-e and it will prompt me for what ocaml toplevel it wants to run defaults to "ocaml"
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<bookbook> i'm taking a guess that if i choose "ocaml" it won't load the Core_kernel properly
<bookbook> but i don't know what other options i have
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<bookbook> here is a dump of what happens when the toplevel is loaded... https://dpaste.de/zBTb#L48,57,58 highlighted the lines that i think are useful
<theblatte> ah, you're evaluating from emacs, I missed that...
<theblatte> what's in your ~/.ocamlinit?
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<bookbook> the first bit is what opam added, the following lines are from realworldocaml guide
<bookbook> i mean everything seems to run fine if i start utop and paste my code in there, or use corebuild on the file
<theblatte> weird
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<bookbook> @theblatte, i think i "figured" it out :D well... i just figured out how to get emacs to load utop to eval my code instead of the regular toplevel "ocaml" default option.... still new, not sure how to make the normal toplevel to load core
<bookbook> thanks for your time
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<theblatte> heh, utop is better anyway ;)
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<Xadnem> Hello FreeBirdLjj
<Xadnem> Hello friends. I'm want to make an ocaml program which will have a GUI. Could you give me any advice about wich Graphical library to use ?
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<kakadu> Oh, man. You really will choose from a number of options the one you dislike less
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<Xadnem> I readed in the ora-book that there's a lot of librarys that is possible to use. I'm familiar with Gtk, but I haven't used it in any ocaml program yet.
<Xadnem> What is your experience?
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<kakadu> Xadnem: Well, people say that Tcl/Tk is fine with a decent theme but in my exp-erience all programs are ugly and too oldschool
<kakadu> I personally don't like GTK. It looks too weird. IMHO. Folks say that there are some issues with good looking GTK themes on Mac and Windows
<kakadu> There some libraries to compiler OCaml to Javascript and create PopcornTime-like applications. A decent approach but a little bit weird for desktop apps. But If you like HTML5 and stuff it is a decent approach
<kakadu> There is a library for Qt/QML GUI but it will be more like writing all GUI in QML and only business logic in OCaml. QML is Declarative enough and seems to suit welll for prototyping GUI but folks don't like pieces of Javascript in it. Also it is really more like an other language, comparately to previous alternatives
<kakadu> OCaml+WxWidgets seems to be dead
<Xadnem> kakadu: many thanks, I didn't know Tcl/Tk library. I will take a look to it.
<kakadu> I can recommend 3rd and 4th option
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<Xadnem> kakadu, thanks again. I also didn't know the Qt/QML library.
<Xadnem> Is it Freeshotfware?
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<Xadnem> See you later friends.
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luzie is now known as lucybun
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