adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | Current MOOC: https://huit.re/ocamlmooc | OCaml 4.04.0 release notes: http://ocaml.org/releases/4.04.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<Evy> how to install graphics.cma on mac osx ?
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<Algebr> sigh, JS lets you do foo[thing] where foo is a supposed to be a function, silly typo doesn't raise exception, just gives undefined
<Drup> Algebr: well, it makes sense, since you can override objects to be both arrays and functions
<Drup> for once, it's internally consistent
<Drup> (nonwistanding the untypedness)
<dmbaturin> You know, it really drives me mad sometimes that in python everything is passed by reference. But then I remember that for the rest of the language design, it's the only way to be internally consistent, and internal consistency is a big deal. ;)
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<justin_smith> yeah, in js foo.thing(x) can be a valid method, and foo[thing] can be a completely different value, on the same object
<jasperlu> does anyone have experience setting up ocaml with bash on ubuntu on windows?
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<dmbaturin> jasperlu: Huh? Ubuntu on windows?
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<dmbaturin> Canonical is the Microsoft of the linux worls indeed.
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<dmbaturin> Calling GNU binaries "ubuntu binaries" really makes me want to interject for a moment. ;)
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<foo_bar> hello, anybody mind explaining why do we need lazy evaluation to make persistent queue work in okasaki's theses? as far as i see all we need is memoization
<foo_bar> am i missing something?
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<flux> dmbaturin, no, everything is passed by value, but all objects are references ;)
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<reynir> foo_bar: lazy evaluation usually uses memoization
<foo_bar> reynir: but can't we also achieve persistence with strict lists and memoization without using banker's queue
<reynir> I don't know the example, sorry
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<companion_cube> looks weird
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<Leonidas> I'd love to see that in reverse https://twitter.com/btbytes/status/823000078470316036
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<freehck> companion_cube: It seems a russian programmer is learing to write parsers. Not a bad thing. I have seen more weird things. :)
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<companion_cube> the language looks a bit surprising
<pitastrudl> indeed
<companion_cube> but mostly interesting, it still looks like OCaml :-)
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<Drup> it seems extremly ad-hoc
<Drup> (like `not` running transparently on collections)
<companion_cube> yes, this part is weird
<companion_cube> I'm all for transparent lifting to collections in some cases, but here…
<Drup> also, some presentation is inconsistent
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<Drup> `=` to bind, `=` to test inside expression but `==` to test at top level
<companion_cube> erk
<Drup> (it might just be a typo)
<Drup> oh, ! is called *. He's quite parser-adventurous :D
<Drup> (also, it says unit as no value, which is completely wrong)
<companion_cube> noooes
<Drup> has*
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<_andre> hello
<_andre> in some janestreet packages like ppx_bin_prot there's a test/jbuild file with instructions to build and run tests
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<_andre> does anyone know how to use that?
<_andre> ie what's the proper way to call jbuilder on it?
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<companion_cube> no idea, sorry
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<rks-> _andre: just create an issue on github and diml will most likely answer you before the end of the day
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<_andre> rks-: thanks
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<steve_gh> Hi. I'm playing with oasis for build management, and get the following error: ocamlfind: Error from package `threads': Missing -thread or -vmthread switch
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<steve_gh> Am I missing a flag or similar in my _oasis file?
<companion_cube> you need to BuildDepends: threads
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<steve_gh> thxs
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<roberto_> Does OCaml's GC look through an array of ints to see if there are any references to follow? Or is the memory representation similar to strings/bytes?
<companion_cube> it looks in it, I think
<companion_cube> there is no significant runtime difference (right now) at runtime between `int array` and `some ref array`
<roberto_> I might start emulating int arrays using bytes then.
<zozozo> companion_cube: couldn't the tag of an int array known at compile time be no_scan_tag ?
<companion_cube> zozozo: you can, indeed
<companion_cube> but that's a manual process
<zozozo> hm.. maybe it could be added to the compiler
<companion_cube> (note that we don't even do it in msat!)
<zozozo> that's right, though in msat I don't think there are a lot of int arrays ?
<companion_cube> hmm, not even the trail?
<companion_cube> let me take a look
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<companion_cube> ok, 2 of them
<steve_gh> Hi, another small oasis problem. I can build libraries and test executables just fine, but when I try and build the main executable (MainIs: sulphur.ml) I get the following:
<steve_gh> Solver failed: Ocamlbuild knows of no rules that apply to a target named src/sulphur.mly
<companion_cube> look at _build/_log to see what ocamlbuild tried to do
<steve_gh> I don't have a src/sulphur.mly file (what does .mly indicate), and the executable has the same BuildDepends as a successfully building test executable
<Algebr> steve_gh: probably some naming is wrong, maybe you told it to look in src when really its in lib
<steve_gh> my bad - I'd moved a bunch of things around while the main .ml it was still open in the text editor
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<zozozo> in an opam file, is there a way to specify that some steps are only to be executed if the doc is being built ? (for isntance to install doc iff it has been built)
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<Xadnem> Hello friends, know someone where is the ocaml lib in linux please?
<KV> Xadnem, try to run: ocamlc -where
<KV> The FFI docs says "Rule 2 Local variables of type value must be declared with one of the CAMLlocal macros.". I want to read stuff from a stream and return a list of key-value pairs. How do I follow that rule if I don't know the value count?
<Xadnem> KV: Thank you very much. It works. ( usr/lib64/ocaml )
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<Algebr> Xadnem: why not using opam?
<Algebr> opam config var lib
<Algebr> KV: you declare it with CAMLlocal and then caml_alloc (and their variants) when you know the size you need
<KV> Algebr, okay. I was thinking about the values. But maybe they are not concidered local values since they are returned
<Algebr> oh a list, well each one needs to be value as well
<Algebr> they are stored into the list you'll make with camllocal
<KV> Algebr, okay. That makes sense. It's not really clear in the docs though since the Rule 2 seems so definitive. Then I assume the same apply for tuples. If I want a tuple with two values, I only declare the tuple it self with camllocal, and the values I just allocate without camllocal declaration?
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<KV> Think I got it. The values of a list or tuple are not variables (although they might be in c), they are values. Let's roll with that and hope for no memory leaks
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<octachron> today philosophical interrogation: when will/did the feature freeze for the 4.05 compiler branch start/started?
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<copy`> There's a 4.04.1 milestone on github
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<Drup> octachron: I guess you can look if there is a branch ?
<Algebr> what branch should you work off of if you want it to be included for the next minor release?
<Drup> work on trunk and people will decide
<Algebr> oh trunk doesn't build on os x, some ocamldoc error
<octachron> Drup, once the branching is done (probably sometime in february?) , the feature freeze will have pass and gone, isn'it?
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<Algebr> hmm, and just building ocamldebug, then running that binary craps out with Fatal error: unknown C primitive `caml_reset_afl_instrumentation'
<Algebr> maybe trunk isn't stable enough to work off of
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<octachron> Algebr, trunk should build, and the caml_reset_afl_instrumentation sounds really strange if you did not activate the afl integration
<Algebr> I did ./configure and make world.opt
<Algebr> then tried ocamldebugger since I want to make changes for ocamldebug
<Drup> octachron: yes
<Algebr> yea bummer, doesn't build, should I open a ticket
<octachron> Algebr, how did you try ocamldebugger?
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<Algebr> make ocamldebugger
<Algebr> then trying running the binary
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<octachron> Algebr, using the in-tree ocamlrun?
<Algebr> oh okay that works
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<cheater> i have a value that's unit : mytype Lwt.t, and a function : unit mytype -> unit Lwt.t. How do I get some 'a Lwt.t out of this? Like unit Lwt.t
<cheater> is there a function that's 'a Lwt.t Lwt.t -> 'a Lwt.t?
<companion_cube> >>= id, i guess
<cheater> is there some better way to do this?
<companion_cube> I don't know, >>= is quite fundamental in lwt
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<rgrinberg> This operation would usually be called join. It's available in Async
<cheater> i have a file in my source code that has in it something like module MyModule .... val myfunc : ...
<companion_cube> yeah well, Lwt.join exists already
<cheater> how do i figure out how to refer to that value? Just doing MyModule.myfunc doesn't work
<companion_cube> rgrinberg: I'd call it Lwt.flatten
<cheater> is there a way to dump all the module names that are defined in a project?
<cheater> or... how do i figure out the logic that changes file name to module name?
<cheater> so the function i mentioned is in src/foo/bar/baz.mli (and baz.ml too of course)
<companion_cube> this will just be named Baz
<companion_cube> by default
<cheater> oh yeah that worked!
<cheater> i thought it would be like Foo_bar_baz. that's what i tried and i haven't thought to just try Baz.
<cheater> does ocaml have something like haskell's undefined?
<cheater> a value i could just plug in so that things typecheck, but which will throw when the code is executed?
<Algebr> assert false
<mengu> Algebr: would () work?
<cheater> will `assert false` assume every type it's placed in?
<cheater> like will this work? 2 + (assert false)
<Drup> cheater try it ? :)
<cheater> work as in type check
<Algebr> cheater: look at the signature of assert
<cheater> i don't want to because i think the answer is no and i don't understand how it'll work so i don't want to guess based on behaviour i observe. you can only hurt your understanding of topics by using the try and see method when it comes to type systems
<cheater> Algebr: ok let me look at it
<cheater> thanks
<Drup> cheater: no seriously, just try the expression you just typed in your top level, and you'll see
<Drup> the type system is not a magical beast, it obeys consistent rules
<Algebr> I think the try and see approach reinforces the intuitions behind things like 'a
<cheater> uhm, how do i figure out where the doc for the assert function is -.-
<companion_cube> it's in the manual, I think
<cheater> google doesn't seem to be able to find it...
<cheater> ok, let me try that then
<cheater> i've had a quick gander in there but i don't know where it might be :S also searching for "assert site:http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/manual-ocaml/" doesn't seem to find anything
<cheater> doing #typeof "assert";; in utop makes it say "unknown type"...
<Drup> assert is a piece of syntax, not a function
<cheater> ok so assert doesn't have a signature?
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<cheater> i'm more confused than i was before :(
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<Algebr> cheater: open utop, then do: assert;;
<dmbaturin> Sometimes I wonder why is it syntax rather than a bool -> unit function.
<Algebr> you will get the type signature
<hcarty1> cheater: 'assert message' will print the given message and raise an assertion. There's some magic in the compiler which make it possible to remove assertions from compiled code but that's not enabled by default.
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<hcarty1> ^ dmbaturin
<Algebr> err
<Drup> Algebr: huh, that doesn't work ...
<Algebr> scrtach that
<hcarty1> I suspect because of the compiler magiks
<Drup> it's not a function
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<Drup> (the reason it's not a function is because "assert false" is specialize cased, *as specified precisely in the documentation*)
<Algebr> learn something new everyday
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<hcarty> cheater: If you want something that works more or less the same way but maybe simpler conceptually you can use failwith
<hcarty> 1 + failwith "Ooops I need to put a number here"
<hcarty> works
<hcarty> Drup: Any chance you know what could cause "Lwt_unix.on_signal: unavailable signal" with Lwt on Windows? Happens immediately when starting a program.
<dmbaturin> Lack of signals in windows? :)
<Drup> my knowledge of windows is non existent, sorry
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<cheater> hcarty: that's probably what i was looking for
<dmbaturin> Oh, ok, actually there are signals on windows. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/xdkz3x12.aspx
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<cheater> Algebr: i did assert;; in utop and i didn't get the typesig!
<hcarty> Drup: Mine is, for better or worse, growing by bits and pieces
<cheater> utop # assert;;
<cheater> Error: Parse error: [expr] expected after "assert" (in [expr])
<Algebr> cheater: yes, we just went over that assert is not a function
<hcarty> dmbaturin: Yeah, I think this has something to do with static linking + cross compilation (using MXE + opam-cross-windows)... but I'm not certain
<cheater> you literally just told me to type exactly that into utop
<cheater> what did i do wrong %S
<hcarty> cheater: assert can be used the same way and is probably the more appropriate tool in this example
<dmbaturin> hcarty: Well, it may also be Lwt being insufficiently cross-platform there.
<cheater> oh, i see, you talked with Drup afterwards
<cheater> i'm slow with reading the backlog :)
<hcarty> dmbaturin: Possibly, or some edge-case from cross-compilation
<dmbaturin> I'm not convinced that "assert false" warrants a special case and that is better than writing "raise (Failure ...)", but I guess that's an old library decisition that is very tricky to change.
<Drup> yeah, assert is a bit double purpose
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<hcarty> Maybe from C's assert
<dmbaturin> When I was a kid, my parents told me not to emulate kids who exhibit undefined behaviour. :)
<Drup> "But mooom, he's so fast, I want to be fast too"
<cheater> ok so... failwith seems better
<cheater> as does assert false
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<hcarty> dmbaturin and Drup: FWIW, the issue was on my end - I had a broken opam switch and the host wasn't properly identified as win32. So invalid signals were checked in Lwt.
<hcarty> Lwt is playing nicely from a fresh switch
<dmbaturin> hcarty: Oh, good to know.
<dmbaturin> hcarty: I guess it's not nearly as embarassing as that time when for some odd reason (which has to do with aspcud not installed on my desktop) "opam install lwt" installed ridiculously old Lwt and I was wondering where's my ppx extension. ;)
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<hcarty> dmbaturin: I've definitely done that or its equivalent before... a missing aspcud is bordering on dangerous for opam
<dmbaturin> Too bad aspcud is not in fedora repos and no one makes a ready to use RPM. I guess I have to do something about it, because yeah, bordering on dangerous is a very apt description.
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<hcarty> There are/were RPMs available somewhere I thought... maybe for CentOS/RHEL
<hcarty> The source RPMs may provide a good starting point
<hcarty> Or not...
<dmbaturin> hcarty: Well, if I want to get it into fedora repos, I'm not sure if writing the spec file to their guidelines is easier than adapting an existing SRPM, but we'll see.
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<hcarty> dmbaturin: Fair point
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