<freemint>
rob_w, what editor did you use for programming?
<beneroth>
freemint, I use emacs with the picolisp-mode coming with picolisp and paredit. you should try out paredit.
<beneroth>
have a nice day, I now go away :)
<beneroth>
bbl
<rob_w>
freemint: i use geany on my linux mint machines ..
<rob_w>
but i am doing very little lisp these days .. mainly C and jscript ( which fucks me currently hard and i hate it )
<beneroth>
rob_w, maybe you can use clojurescript, or elm or purescript instead of jscript? :)
<beneroth>
rly away now. see ya
<rob_w>
beneroth: i just finally realized my issue .. my recieve buffer is a fixed size and chrome`s answer was too big .. firefox barely fit inside my buffer
<rob_w>
hence the fucking size of the header of the browser made the difference .
<rob_w>
debugging such gives me brain attackes ( server vs client vs host code vs client code )
<freemint>
beneroth, yhea picolisp mode wokrs great
<freemint>
I was really happy when i could call Picolisp inside ORG-Mode
<razzy>
freemint: how did you?
<freemint>
i followed the orgmode link i posted and removed all references to tsm from the configuration since my picolisp distro had tsm.el
<freemint>
razzy, does that answer your question
<freemint>
i also added the melpa distro and installled paredit and picolisp mode from there
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<Regenaxer>
Yeah, TSM is all revoved
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<razzy>
freemint, you left. are you talking about org-mode-babel ?
<razzy>
what revoved means?
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<wuehlmaus>
is there a function that returns the number of arguments of a function?
<wuehlmaus>
or a var?
<wuehlmaus>
hmm, (length (argv)) ?
<Regenaxer>
Now exactly, it is (rest), but only for functions with variable arguments
<Regenaxer>
(argv) are the command line arguments
<Regenaxer>
When do you need this number?
<wuehlmaus>
to do a function that reacts to different invocations?\
<Regenaxer>
yes, but that does never need the *number*
<Regenaxer>
You can do (while (args) ... (next) ...) or (while (next) ...
<Regenaxer>
In general, using numbers to control flow is seldom in Lisp
<Regenaxer>
there are better ways like mapping
<wuehlmaus>
okay old habits ...
<Regenaxer>
I'm always suspicious if I ever need to take the 'length' of a List, smells like something is wrong
<Regenaxer>
(though sometimes it is indeed necessary of course)
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<razzy>
i often need end of list :]. and i deeply wish for skiplist :]
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<Regenaxer>
Where/when do you "often" need end of list?
<Regenaxer>
You mean access to the last cell, right?
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<razzy>
when i sort something, i often like to work with "best" results, and "worst" results. yes, last cell, or bottom of list. now i remember (length) so i do not do it often. and do nth, head, tail.
<Regenaxer>
Perhaps 'fifo' is to recommend here
<Regenaxer>
In general an 'idx' will do
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<razzy>
those are weird structures i did not "get" yet :] thx :]
<Regenaxer>
They are extremely simple structures: 'fifo' maintains a circular list, and 'idx' an unbalanced binary tree
<razzy>
i think i will have problems using advantages of fifo with sorting
<Regenaxer>
Depends what you do
<Regenaxer>
I would start to worry if I had a concrete problem, not with fuzzy generalizations
<Regenaxer>
If you want the best and worst values, a single-pass sweep over the list is the most efficient way
<Regenaxer>
Sorting is huge overkill then
<Regenaxer>
or complicated data structures
<razzy>
hmm, if i wanted to work with (maxi) from the list. like (pop (maxi eval a))
<razzy>
or get adr on (maxi eval a) so i could delete, add something near it
<Regenaxer>
Yeah, 'maxi' is not useful for that. Returns the item, not the cell
<Regenaxer>
'seek' is most general
<Regenaxer>
If you want the max AND then min, 'mapc' or 'for' is best perhaps
<Regenaxer>
And your 'pop' scenario is handled with 'map'
<razzy>
i agree that ussually you work only with one item from list, so sort is overkill
<razzy>
sort is actually usefull if you use multiple "processes" or multiple "users" :D
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<wuehlmaus>
is there some autoload mechanism in picolisp? say i have some functions that i always want in my REPL.... ?
<DKordic>
Regenaxer: Should "path" be linked from "(doc '@)"?
<Regenaxer>
Indeed, you mean a "see also", right?
<DKordic>
Yes.
<Regenaxer>
Well, it is - indirectly via (see @ Result)
<wuehlmaus>
i c
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<freemint>
Regenaxer, what happened with TSM?
<Regenaxer>
freemint, I removed it. Nobody used it (including me ;)
<Regenaxer>
And it was complicated internally
<razzy>
Regenaxer: TSM caused me trouble. but i generaly like hiding code into collapseable brackets
<Regenaxer>
I wanted to support double-width chars in the line editor, and TSM was in the way
<Regenaxer>
razzy, how did it cause trouble?
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<razzy>
TSM hides "" in code right? transient symbol markup?
<Regenaxer>
correct
<Regenaxer>
and underlined instead
<razzy>
i was confused when it hidden it :]
<Regenaxer>
yeah, it is kind of unusual
<Regenaxer>
was not a good idea perhaps
<razzy>
emacs had no underline, just colour change
<Regenaxer>
I still use underlines in strings in Vip
<Regenaxer>
but no removal of quotes
<Regenaxer>
just to see if strings are closed
<razzy>
i think it is great idea for heavy users, who personalise view. something like "glasses-mode" in emacs
<razzy>
i can imagine that you change names of functions, and do many things. but the picolisp code stays the same for others to cooperate on
<freemint>
Ahh i recall thanks
<freemint>
Regenaxer, i forgot what TSM was you made me recall
<Regenaxer>
hmm?
<freemint>
You answered my question excellently
<Regenaxer>
You recalled something but forgot it immediately?
<Regenaxer>
The double-width?
<freemint>
I forgot that TSM stood for that obscure feauture. I had to setup emacs+picolisp and my resources still mentioned TSM and i had to comment these parts out. I was curious why the files were gone and did not recall that they were likely related to the obscure tsm feature
<Regenaxer>
If it still mentioned it in that older version, then probably @lib/tsm.l was also still there
<freemint>
I used a tutorial to add picolisp to orgmode which was not shipped with the picolisp distribution i used but a website
<freemint>
I am overall quiet happy with emacs, the jump was less scary than i tought it would be and i was getting productive with it faster than with vim
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<razzy>
freemint: i would like to have working babel :] is it hard?
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<freemint>
razzy i am not sure what babel is. But i can use stuff like:
<freemint>
#+BEGIN_SRC picolisp :results output
<freemint>
#+END_SRC
<freemint>
(print (apply + (range 1 100)))
<freemint>
#+RESULTS:
<freemint>
: 5050
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<razzy>
freemint: core idea behind babel is, that you take multiple languages, and stitch them together
<razzy>
picolisp, java, python. use what library you see fit
<razzy>
and somehow use previous results into next computation
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<freemint>
I think i can do that
<freemint>
it was not very hard
<razzy>
could we have some #picolispcafe for not-so-serious stuff? i would like to post some music from time to time, talk about emacs-babel :]
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<freemint>
razzy, let me be honest
<freemint>
i am not interest in you cat pictures or in what music you listen. This community is united here around picolisp. We sometimes really go off topic and that's fine if there is no push back, however if there is push back we usually stop/choose a way to communicate in a way that does not disturb other members.
<freemint>
i would say that that is our policy on offtopic conversation
<freemint>
If what you intent to do does not fit with it you are free to fork of your community (like #picolispcafe ) you are free to do so. You can invite me over there but as i am not interested in getting links to cat pictures i will likely not join.
<freemint>
Coversation about org-mode, emacs with application to picolisp i would consider fine and i see no reason to fork those off
<freemint>
You can create #picolispcafe and post your cat pictures there but please do not try to split the community. We are small enough as we are.
<beneroth>
I'm proud of you, freemint
<beneroth>
I fully agree
<beneroth>
hi all :)
<freemint>
If you want to talk with me about babel open a query/(1 on 1 chat) and will talk with you if i feel like talking with you. If you want to talk with multiple people about babel join a babel specific channel. But most of us won't join a community so we can cater to your personal wims. If we do not want cat pcitures in the picolisp channel it likely because we do not want cat pictures via IRC.
<beneroth>
T
<freemint>
If you want to talk with me about babel open a query/(1 on 1 chat) and will talk with you if i feel like talking with you. If you want to talk with multiple people about babel join a babel specific channel. But most of us won't join a community so we can cater to your personal wims. If we do not want cat pcitures in the picolisp channel it likely because we do not want cat pictures via IRC. If you feel like some of your
<freemint>
behavior is unwelcome by this channel and you want to move us all over in to another channel, please consider that i might be that you are not only posting to the wrong channel but communicating the wrong kind of content to the wrong kind of community. This fact will not change when we switch #picolispcafe
<freemint>
Hi beneroth
<freemint>
I just spent 20 minutes of my life trying to explain why #picolispcafe might not solve your problems with the community and how it would harm the community. I do not claim that i am not a time thief either but i hope that people kept me around with me because i showed signs of improvment (I was very young when i first started with picolisp). From the behavior of you today i am not sure that you improved at all and posting cat
<freemint>
pictures is a new low on this channel i think.
<beneroth>
well, most active users here will probably never ever view them as they use text browsers :P
* freemint
gives beneroth a deadly look
<beneroth>
pictures in text chat is bloat.
<beneroth>
we hate bloat.
<beneroth>
simple as that :)
<freemint>
I won't say all pictures are. Something can not be represented in text. Like complex cyclic list structures (which are actally graphs). But cat pictures are bloat as long as they are not relevant ot the topic at hand