ChanServ changed the topic of #picolisp to: PicoLisp language | Channel Log: | Check also for more information
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<Seteeri> Hello! Does anyone ever use the picolisp channel on reddit? So far there have been no posts, however, the first PilCon proposal would make a nice first post.
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<tankf33der> because also exists
<Regenaxer> oh
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<Regenaxer> No change
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<tankf33der> my mom’s painting.
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<Regenaxer> Beautiful!
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<anddam> hello
<Regenaxer> Hi anddam
<anddam> as usually during holidays I get sucked into the lisp charme, as outsider
<Regenaxer> good :)
<anddam> yes, but I never quite bit the bullet
<Regenaxer> takes time
<anddam> I read Land of Lisp through mid-way, then got distracted by life
<anddam> found Picolisp a few years ago, but I could go over the initial entry barrier on my own
<Regenaxer> Land of Lisp is for Common Lisp, so it is not helpful for PicoLisp
<anddam> and a couple of the mandatory Paul Graham articles
<anddam> Regenaxer: that much I understand, but I found LoL earlier. Also from the outside the difference does not look _that_ big
<Regenaxer> yeah, the look is very similar
<Regenaxer> ie s-exprs
<anddam> then the other night I went through the machine description of
<Regenaxer> but the semantics are quite different
<anddam> I somehow liked it very much, not sure I understand why I read it though
<Regenaxer> The docs are all a bit terse
<anddam> eh
<anddam> from what I understand picolisp offers a simple environment, with few datatype, unicode aware, a "built-in ORM" and the basic libraries for common needs. Also it's interpreted and you can check errors at runtime
<Regenaxer> thats all correct, yes
<anddam> not sure the last two things are related, I gather the "source code is the executing code" is more general of lisp
<Regenaxer> right, but most Lisps are compiled and then the equivalence to the source is gone
<Regenaxer> Pil also kind of compiles, but not to machine code
<Regenaxer> it builds pointer structures, as described in the above ref
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<anddam> pointer structures as in the single data cell?
<Regenaxer> yes
<Regenaxer> cells pointing to cells
<Regenaxer> i.e. data
<anddam> oh since we are here, the ascii-art at
<anddam> is actually 2 cells, with the first cell CDR pointing to the address of the second one
<anddam> is that right?
<anddam> due to that + symbol in the CDR
<Regenaxer> yes, NIL occupies 2 cells
<Regenaxer> hmm
<Regenaxer> the + is a mistype I think
<Regenaxer> no meaning here
<anddam> oh
<anddam> that is not what I expected
<Regenaxer> :)
<Regenaxer> I never noticed
<Regenaxer> Fixed it
<anddam> or broke it, from my PoV
<Regenaxer> You think the + has meaning?
<anddam> my idea was that the symbol started with one cell, then the CDR could link to another and in that case in the ascii art there's a + where the link crosses the cell border, in the NIL symbol case I thought the second cell was adjacent out of convenience
<anddam> but that's because I assumed a symbol (of which NIL is a special case) started with one cell
<Regenaxer> The arrow from the top is the important point
<Regenaxer> it points between car and cdr, thus it is a symbol
<anddam> I'm possibly overthinking a minor detail since I don't know almost anything else about the language
<Regenaxer> no problem
<anddam> actually what spun my interest this turn was the PicoLisp Works link on reddit
<anddam> I think I'll go with a practical approach for once
<Regenaxer> OK
<Regenaxer> NIL itself is the first cell only
<Regenaxer> it is a symbol, bocause the pointer is offset by 8 bytes
<Regenaxer> The second cell is padding
<anddam> so it "points to the CDR"
<Regenaxer> with two NILs in turn
<anddam> because the cell is 16bytes
<Regenaxer> right
<anddam> I liked that low-level trick with the offsets
<anddam> btw b(0) is gc
<Regenaxer> NIL points to itself with its value
<Regenaxer> b(0) ?
<anddam> LSB
<anddam> rightmost bit
<Regenaxer> exactly
<anddam> ok, so there are 8 possible values for types
<anddam> numbers has 4
<anddam> I haven't cleared lists yet, but with 4 type of symbols I was foreseeing a problem there
<Regenaxer> well, testing for combinations of bits is exzensive
<Regenaxer> so the basic types have 1 bit each
<Regenaxer> short, big, sym
<Regenaxer> none is cell
<anddam> and cell is list as well, right?
<Regenaxer> The most central doc is doc64/structures
<Regenaxer> yes
<anddam> makes sense, I said 4 since numbers (bigint and shortint) have sign as well
<Regenaxer> yeah
<anddam> I figure I'd like to understand how to implement something I need with picolisp, to have an actual use case
<Regenaxer> So bit 3 (and 8) is not uniqu
<anddam> what about bit 8?
<Regenaxer> if you test just with 8, it might be a sym or a negative number
<Regenaxer> so it depends on context
<Regenaxer> usuall number is tested for first
<Regenaxer> & 6
<anddam> oh you are talking values there, not bit position
<anddam> 8 as in 1000
<Regenaxer> yes, bit 3
<anddam> I understand
<Regenaxer> Perhaps PilBox? Not easy for beginners, but the best to build something useful
<Regenaxer> You can make an Android app with 3 lines :)
<Regenaxer> "Hello World"
<Regenaxer> (menu "Hello World!"
<Regenaxer> (<h1> "center fh" "Hello World!") )
<anddam> yea, but I figure anything other than the label would be a PITA, at least at first
<Regenaxer> yep
<Regenaxer> Perhaps look around at rosettacode for ideas?
<anddam> I noticed that is linked a lot from the docs
<Regenaxer> T
<anddam> oh, btw is using emacs recommended?
<Regenaxer> yes, some people do (I don't though)
<anddam> I read how it is convenient, but I cannot see the advantage since I am at a "lower language" (in the Paul Graham meaning) language-wise
<Regenaxer> advantage of emacs?
<tankf33der> im using micro editor and run code inside editor by ctrl-r.
<tankf33der> run code by editor is mine mandatory feature.
<Regenaxer> btw, Vip also has a full pil repl
<anddam> tankf33der: that's quite the collection
<anddam> Vip ?
<Regenaxer> A Vi/Vim subset in Pil
<Regenaxer> @lib/vip.l
<Regenaxer> I use it exclusively for everything
<Regenaxer> even e-mails in mutt :)
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<anddam> I'll check it
<anddam> vi-like editors are my Achille's heel
<Regenaxer> They are also terse
<Regenaxer> but editing is fastest (least keys to type
<Regenaxer> )
<Regenaxer> I'm used to them since 36 years or so
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<anddam> that's almost my lifespan
<Regenaxer> :)
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<Regenaxer> Good night! o/
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