<beneroth>
it is either not-totally-inaccurate location tracking OR privacy
<Nistur>
yup
<beneroth>
in Switzerland the main provider handed antenna traffic data to the Government to see if the people stay at home (we have no curfew, just strong appeals to responsibility, and gatherings of >5 in public are forbidden)
<Nistur>
while it is 'anonymous'... it's fairly trivial to tie anonymous data to individuals
<beneroth>
it is
<beneroth>
just logic...
<beneroth>
though the data in the link from Nistur is from standard mobile-dev libraries,a faik
<beneroth>
I heard about this company before, I think
<Nistur>
It's a bit terrifying regardless
<beneroth>
Varoufakis (the greek finance minister who is a reputed economist and pissed off EU) worded it nicely a few years ago:
<beneroth>
"we're at decision point, we will either go into direction of StarTrek utopia or Matrix-style slaves to machinery (AI management, optimizing humans out of the loop)"
<beneroth>
everything looks like Matrix pathway :)
<beneroth>
(not exact quote, paraphrased from my bad memory)
<Nistur>
yup
<Nistur>
There _is_ a middle ground
<Nistur>
to be fair, Star Trek is kind of the middle ground
<Nistur>
Matrix is kind of machine led apocalypse, and the opposite is something like Fallout, or I don't know Waterworld, where society kind of breaks down and there's no/little technology... of course there are scenarios where this is a concious choice too
<Nistur>
while Star Trek maintains the tech, and the reliance on it, but doesn't allow it to rule
<Nistur>
... for the most part
* Nistur
looks down at his BORG tshirt
<beneroth>
well.. we could become DUNE-universe :D
<beneroth>
it is a rather dire place, though...
<beneroth>
covid is now in my building >.<
<Nistur>
:(
<beneroth>
oh, something dark fun: don't just try to invent stuff, you nerds...
<Nistur>
I just had a thought... embedding magnets under your skin would be useful. You could have things like snap on face shields and masks
<Regenaxer>
uh
<Regenaxer>
horror
<Nistur>
... I Was following on from beneroth's comment on nerds not trying to invent stuff btw ;) So only partially serious
<Regenaxer>
:)
<Nistur>
I do seem to remember an article at one point about a guy with a metal mohawk that was attached with little threaded nuts under the skin on his skull. Just seems so tedious to have to screw and unscrew it all the time :P
<beneroth>
Nistur, read my link xD
<beneroth>
srsly read it xD
<Nistur>
"needless to say I am not going to play with the magnets any more."
<beneroth>
btw. there is a hacker sub-community doing stuff like putting magnets under their fingertips.. it's quite painful, as you're only allowed to this at the tattoo artist without anesthesia, and it can result in horrible infections, but it can also result in the ability to sense electricity with your fingertips, quite handy when working with electronics
<beneroth>
I have not the stomach to do it
<Nistur>
yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah no
<Nistur>
I mean, in principle I'm in favour of self augmentation, _especially_ for (semi) practical reasons
<beneroth>
There is also an mobile app, which you could install and change the URL in the settings to this server instead of the official main one (which is currently a bit over-loaded), but the best variant is actually the web variant.
<beneroth>
After opening a conference you can just send the URL to other people to join. The one opening the conference can set a password in the settings (dots at bottom right corner).
<Regenaxer>
Thanks again beneroth!
<beneroth>
no problem :)
<beneroth>
this is my dedicated server (VPS rented from swiss provider), so quite secure
<aw->
beneroth: sweeet
<aw->
i managed to dig up my webcam, maybe i'll join in later
<beneroth>
cool
<beneroth>
yeah pilCon will probably happen this way :)
<tankf33der>
beneroth: is it was hard to setup ?
<beneroth>
no, very easy, I just followed the guide on the github. I know nginx well, but I haven't had to tweak anything. I just installed nginx and then jitsi meet, then ran the jitsi meet scripts to setup Lets Encrypt
<aw->
beneroth: what are the specs for the VPS?
<beneroth>
I have nothing else on this server, so I don't do more configuration
<aw->
or more importantly, what is the usage of the server with/without any users?
<beneroth>
aw-, the internet says the main bottleneck would be the network, not even CPU
<beneroth>
I've got 4 cores and 4 GB RAM. I can scale up if needed.
<beneroth>
ubuntu 18.04
<beneroth>
tested with my friend in australia, very good latency, no issues
<beneroth>
aw-, CPU usage without any load seems to be 3%
<beneroth>
said the provider webinterface
<beneroth>
terminal says 0.0 load xD
<beneroth>
well 0.03 - 0.12
<beneroth>
java stuff
<beneroth>
so well.. I will not mix it with other services, or at least keep it in its own container
<beneroth>
(though this is only a very limited security barrier)
<aw->
wow nice
<aw->
network bottleneck.. makes sense
<beneroth>
I would guess the netcode is already pretty good
<beneroth>
before the current jitsi meet project, jitsi was a skype-alternative based on XMPP
<beneroth>
worked really well.. all you would need was jabber account (could be from whatever jabber server you liked)
<beneroth>
some years ago they changed from that to this web rpc implementation, got bought by atlassian, and then became independent again
<aw->
i see
<aw->
beneroth: it's pretty slow
<aw->
could be my internet.. server seems slow
<beneroth>
ok, possible. I tested with my friend in australia, and video was in sync with signal audio call in parallel
<aw->
ok will try later
<beneroth>
thanks
<beneroth>
maybe we should use for pilcon an instance in HongKong or so, instead of europe.. but lets see
<aw->
yeah, or perhaps just have a backup instance
<aw->
i wonder how difficult it would be to load balance some jitsi meet servers
<aw->
ohhh you need to install the jitsi meet 'videobridge' software as well
<beneroth>
yes, that is the main workhorse
<aw->
interesting
<beneroth>
java
<beneroth>
the whole thing might be also an idea for an offering towards your customers
<beneroth>
lync (skype for business) quality is worse, I think
<beneroth>
and partially overloaded at the moment, as is even Google
<aw->
perhaps, but I don't typically repackage open source applications
<aw->
beneroth: i'll look into it ;)
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<beneroth>
aw-, jitsi meet can also integrate with SIP gates, apparently
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<Regenaxer>
Stupid question: What is the "current" office suite in Debian? LibreOffice I presume?
<Regenaxer>
I need to examine some spreadsheet from a customer
<Regenaxer>
OpenOffice is deprecated?
<Regenaxer>
Or better install something else?
<beneroth>
LibreOffice
<beneroth>
OpenOffice is de facto deprecated. it is still maintained by Oracle.. but well, it is Oracle. the original team left years ago and founded LibreOffice
<beneroth>
just use LibreOffice
<beneroth>
there are some other office suits, some even better, but paid
<Regenaxer>
Thanks!
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<DKordic>
tankf33der: Sorry for my delay in response. I must admit I am still on Ubuntu.
<DKordic>
I really don't understand Debian. My extremely humble experience can only confirm that Debian is no way better than described in ""A Generation Lost in the Bazaar: Quality happens only when someone is responsible for it."" ( https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2349257 ).
<DKordic>
Simple things should be simple. Point of Diminishing Returns?
<tankf33der>
i see. ok
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<Regenaxer>
I wonder whether the Jitsi app can share the screen (it seems the browser gui *can* do it (not tried))
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<beneroth>
Regenaxer, browser can (tested), can be a single window or entire screen
<beneroth>
I haven't tested the app more than for normal video calling
<beneroth>
some of the features of the web interface are clearly not available in the app
<beneroth>
e.g. sharing youtube video
<Regenaxer>
Good to know
<Regenaxer>
I'll try the browser version tomorrow
<Regenaxer>
If ok, I make a meeting tomorrow with SIM Logestics, Alkmaar (NL)
<Regenaxer>
s/Logestics/Logistics
<Regenaxer>
Really cool that you installed meeting.itship.ch :)
<Regenaxer>
I can imagine it to be our all-purpose meeting point from now on
<Regenaxer>
(if ok for you)
<mtsd>
Good evening
<Regenaxer>
Cheers mtsd! :)
<mtsd>
Building up a worldwide, emergency Picolisp network :)
<Regenaxer>
yep :)
<mtsd>
Very good. beneroth and I are talking on Signal and WhatsApp too
<mtsd>
Multiple channels, for redundancy :)
<Regenaxer>
great
<Regenaxer>
:)
<mtsd>
The Pil community adapts when the world changes, haha
<Regenaxer>
I abandonEd WhatsApp, and don't want to rely nn Signal though
<mtsd>
I have ended up with more or less one IM app per contact.
<Regenaxer>
haha
<mtsd>
Some on Signal, some on WhatsApp, You and I using Delta Chat
<Regenaxer>
true
<mtsd>
That's progress for you, haha
<Regenaxer>
I used cisco, and do use zoom for some partners
<beneroth>
nobody uses threema?
<beneroth>
Regenaxer, sure, feel free to use it
<Regenaxer>
thanks
<beneroth>
when server load becomes a problem I will set a password required for creating conferences, or setup another server
<Regenaxer>
I tried to persuade everybody to briar
<beneroth>
but probably this will not be required
<Regenaxer>
but no success
<Regenaxer>
yes, a password might be to consider
<Regenaxer>
Load is perhaps no issue
<beneroth>
you can add a password to a freshly created conference
<mtsd>
Didn't you have to exchange keys for Briar, or something like that? Via QR-codes? Or do I remember it all wrong?
<Regenaxer>
yes, saw that option
<beneroth>
Regenaxer, settings in the web interface, bottom right the three dots
<beneroth>
mtsd, you had to meet in flesh, afaik
<Regenaxer>
yes, briar is a bit tedious
<beneroth>
bad time to roll out know :)
<beneroth>
though I can give it a try if you like
<beneroth>
we can exchange QR codes via meeting.itship.ch xD
<mtsd>
I think I would like to pause adding even more IM apps, for now ;)
<Regenaxer>
you mean briar?
<Regenaxer>
it is not so necessary any more due to delta
<Regenaxer>
I have most in delta now
<Regenaxer>
Matthias too :)
<Regenaxer>
yes
<mtsd>
I used to have two contacs in Delta, but the other one moved to Signal :)
<mtsd>
But still, I like being able to send you messages that way, Regenaxer :)
<Regenaxer>
I have 38 in total in Delta now
<mtsd>
Good work!
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