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<beneroth>
Regenaxer, hahaha, nice one
<beneroth>
Lucia App
<Regenaxer>
yeah
<Regenaxer>
I'll try perhaps. No need at the moment though
<beneroth>
possibly illegal, I don't know what the check-in laws are
<beneroth>
I mean not the app per se, but using
<beneroth>
might also be different in every part of Germany
<beneroth>
the creator of Luca responded to the critic from CCC
<beneroth>
apparently they see no problems. they added some rate limiting to text messages
<beneroth>
that text message / SMS is not a secure channel.. I cannot understand how devs not get that
<beneroth>
comfortable lazy companies I guess.
<Regenaxer>
yes, probably not very legal due to "falsche Angaben"
<beneroth>
yeah something like that
<beneroth>
not that it cane proved usually, but one could get unlucky
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<Regenaxer>
tankf33der here?
<olaf_h>
hi all - i'm facing kind of a cache problem here locally .... changes in a local app.css do not affect restarted app
<Regenaxer>
Hi olaf_h!
<Regenaxer>
Did you try Shift-Reload in the browser?
<olaf_h>
hi Regenaxer ... mompl ...
<olaf_h>
ah, interesting effect: Shift-Reload in browser-tab of app does not change anything
<olaf_h>
but: ...
<olaf_h>
... after clicking on the app.css link in the view-source tab of the browser ....
<olaf_h>
... and doing Shift-Reload there, the css source code updates in that view-source tab ....
<Regenaxer>
I usually just do Shift-Reload
<olaf_h>
... and after that shift-reload ob app tab of the browser updates too
<Regenaxer>
Not sure
<Regenaxer>
I do sometimes : (trace 'httpEcho)
<Regenaxer>
then shift-reload
<olaf_h>
i have to check with all files locally in the vm i think - at the moment files are on a mounted directory
<Regenaxer>
You see what the browser fetches from server then
<olaf_h>
perhaps the filesystem/networking thing does caching ?? possible ?
<Regenaxer>
Yes, but this has no effect in the app
<Regenaxer>
you must get the changed version
<olaf_h>
i was always doing Ctrl-R instead of Shift-Reload
<olaf_h>
with holding Shift and klicking on the reload icon in the browser, css changes update immediately
<Regenaxer>
I think C-R is just reload of th HTML
<Regenaxer>
Shift invalidates the browser cache
<Regenaxer>
yes, reload icon
<olaf_h>
yes, i have to do Shift-Ctrl-R
<Regenaxer>
I do Shift plus reload icon
<olaf_h>
you are on a touchable device i guess - so penti Shift + touch, right ?
<Regenaxer>
ah, on Android it is a problem
<Regenaxer>
It is tedious in Chrome
<Regenaxer>
So I use the browser App in PilBox
<Regenaxer>
it has a Clear button
<olaf_h>
i'm on linux mint (ubuntu derivat) with firefox
<Regenaxer>
And the Repl in PilBox also has one
<olaf_h>
cool
<Regenaxer>
The problem with Firefox or Chrome on Android was the main reason wo write the PilBox browser app
<Regenaxer>
also "View Source"
<Regenaxer>
not available on FF or Chrome
<Regenaxer>
but in PilBox :)
<olaf_h>
i think i will get the vollaphone this weekend, if pilBox is runnable there i probably will use more pilBox
<Regenaxer>
cool
<Regenaxer>
Let us know how it works
<olaf_h>
dont know at the moment
<olaf_h>
yes sure
<olaf_h>
PinePhone is ordered too, but will take a while to arrive
<Regenaxer>
wow
<olaf_h>
no, no wow, i dont have a clue of it, i was just interested in a 'handy' :-) linux device without phone capabilities perhaps
<olaf_h>
pinephone is said to offer dip switches with which one can put off network capabilities .... i am really not sure whether i will be able to use the linux there ....
<olaf_h>
the price was very interesting, so i ordered just to say at least "interesting, guys, go on" :-)
<Regenaxer>
ok
<olaf_h>
i meant ... to handle the linux there .... we will see. vollaphone might be used as a phone, i do not know now, i just wanted to try android apps on that device
<olaf_h>
so i will report, if sth successfull happens next time :-)
<Regenaxer>
Very good :)
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<beneroth>
olaf_h, pinephone....I have one. not using it currently. and not sure if I should because of https://xnux.eu/log/#017
<beneroth>
some things of that blog post I discussed with friends which are skilled in electronics, seems to be plausible
<beneroth>
maybe it doesn't apply or the risks got reduced in the meantime, or it's very unlikely, but you better be aware ;-)
<Regenaxer>
yes, a bit scary
<beneroth>
(tl;dr: battery safety stuff might be missing/partly missing in the pinephone, so too much power drain or too quick power loading might go BUMM)
<beneroth>
seteeri (sometimes here in chat) made me aware some time ago :)
<olaf_h>
thanks for the link, beneroth, i will read the battery related parts again when the postman rings
<Regenaxer>
<olaf_h>
on that device safety is of no concern for me as long as the dip switches really cancel networking
<olaf_h>
pine sells the device with 30day warranty .... maybe some reasons for that are mentioned in the blog post
<olaf_h>
this sentence of the feature list will hopefully be correct: Privacy Switches: LTE (include GPS), Wifi/BT, Mic, and Camera
<olaf_h>
and work as i expect :-)
<beneroth>
well it's a development experimental device, not a consumer thingy, despite the polished look. they purposely sell it this way to get more developers working on it, to kickstart the ecosystem before maybe a free phone for the mass market is produced (by them or someone else)
<olaf_h>
at the moment i'm still using a palm pilot and am looking for ersatz for it
<beneroth>
yeah
* beneroth
still missing N900
<beneroth>
too bad Microsoft placed their guy as Nokia CEO and killed it off
<beneroth>
that was true linux phone, with terminal, ssh, and easy way to get all contacts as CSV
<olaf_h>
do know other hw from pine64? e.g. the 10" tab?
<beneroth>
android still doesn't offer that. android got worse the last 10 years.
<beneroth>
olaf_h, no, but I own a rock64 mini computer board. couldn't do much with it yet (because of time, the device is great).
<beneroth>
and delivery & payment all no problem with them, really good
<beneroth>
I think aw- uses a rock64 as main desktop computer for software development. a bit slow for web browsing, otherwise perfect, small, secure
<beneroth>
I would love to switch my daily phone from android to a pinephone. or librem (also ordered, waiting forever)
<beneroth>
librem also offers hw switches, were the first ones afaik. my pinephone actually doesn't have hw switches I think, but they iterate quickly
<olaf_h>
did you think about vollaphone?
<beneroth>
didn't know about them!
<beneroth>
when did they appear?
<olaf_h>
i think last year - found them by chance last time
<beneroth>
ah android without google, or ubuntu
<beneroth>
hmmm
<olaf_h>
office called me they have received a parcel today, hopefully it's that device .... weekend ....
<beneroth>
I haven't researched in a while :)
<beneroth>
ok, let me know about your experience!
<beneroth>
when did you order?
<olaf_h>
about two or three weeks ago
<beneroth>
I used an samsung galaxy 2 for like ten years, without google integration except appstore. but battery finally became unusable, so I had to get a new android
<beneroth>
ok
<beneroth>
sounds good
<beneroth>
let me know. I would throw some more money in that phone corner just to get a device I can own
<beneroth>
s/own/control
<olaf_h>
:-) for my galaxy I could get fresh akku from conrad.de
<beneroth>
Regenaxer, when Google restrictions increase, you have to switch from selling pilbox to companies instead selling them entire phones ;-)
<beneroth>
olaf_h, ah nice
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<beneroth>
Regenaxer, just needs to be marketed as extra secure business-only, so then people might accept that their kids cannot play addictive games on it
<olaf_h>
i think i installed a cyanogen mod on that device, now i'm using it only for threema,
<beneroth>
or we just put snake on it, more is not needed anyway ;P
<beneroth>
olaf_h, ah
<beneroth>
we should share threema contacts
<beneroth>
maybe ask everyone at pilcon once
<olaf_h>
ah, good idea!
<beneroth>
Volla looks really not bad
<olaf_h>
otherwise i'm using signal for office contacts
<beneroth>
I guess you ordered with ubuntu?
<beneroth>
not sure how good ubuntu touch is etc, but then again, should allow to program your own stuff
<beneroth>
yeah Signal. but Signal is now also to be doubted
<beneroth>
they want to add micropayments and blockchain bs or something like that. and they didn't opensource the server code for over a year (did now)
<olaf_h>
why
<olaf_h>
ah, okay, a friend of mine told me last time ... and he proposed to change direction ... wait ....
<beneroth>
I'm using it since quite early, when it was still TextSecure
<olaf_h>
.... matrix.org ... do you know that?
<beneroth>
haha
<beneroth>
yeah
<beneroth>
clacke is a big fan/expert
<beneroth>
Regenaxer tried to use it just recently, but I think he stopped again, some things were to unreliable
<beneroth>
I haven't tested myself yet really
<olaf_h>
what makes me doubt a bit with volla was the words 'you type in what you want and immediately a internet search starts' or similar
<olaf_h>
and i wondered if they handle user requests in the cloud
<beneroth>
I guess that is the other OS, and more like and autocompletion GUI, not google search per se?
<olaf_h>
hopefully
<beneroth>
I wouldn't guess so, not when they market themselves as privacy friendly? well possible
<beneroth>
but without further information I would have more doubts about Ubuntu actually :D
<beneroth>
they did such things in the past
<beneroth>
even on desktop
<olaf_h>
i don't trust ubuntu either
<beneroth>
ubuntu is a compromise between comfort and having a good linux (debian)
<olaf_h>
some linux distro took chromium out of his default packages system because of some hidden store connect installation or so ...
<beneroth>
yeah
<beneroth>
well
<olaf_h>
i hope i did get it right,
<beneroth>
Mozilla suicided, so the days for firefox are numbered unless some skilled guys will fork it eventually
<beneroth>
yeah I think I heard something about chromeîum installing proprietary codec blobs or such
<beneroth>
not necessarily evil but against Free (RMS style) spirit
<beneroth>
Google is now anyway the monopolist dictator of the web (HTML etc. standards)
<olaf_h>
i like mozilla mdn a lot, but around 2013 or so they were crying that the contact with google ends, that brought them 1 Mrd Dollars for 3 years of contract, i think.
<beneroth>
more than that
<beneroth>
but they pay their SJW CEO 250k a year
<beneroth>
and kicked out the MDN team
<olaf_h>
And i only thought: well, 1 mrd in 3 years ..... why are they crying ....
<olaf_h>
yes i ve read about the kicking somewhere
<beneroth>
and the new render engine - so there is nobody working on non-chromium rendering engines anymore besides maybe Apple, which cannot really be taken serious as browser contender
<beneroth>
(and chromium is based on webkit which is apple, which is based on the old KDE konqueror thing)
<beneroth>
Mozilla just felt victim to SJW movement
<olaf_h>
what does SJW stand for?
<beneroth>
social justice warriors
<beneroth>
the overly progressive passive-aggressive wannabe-worldimprovers without any tolerance and no respect for rule of law or democracy who seriously attempt to become state religion in the west
<beneroth>
well that is my view, they certainly would word this differently ;-)
<olaf_h>
i dont care
<beneroth>
Mozilla want to fight for a free and open web. and they really started to claim that a browser is not really the main tool for that, and that they have other stuff.
<beneroth>
when the browser is their main product and the only ever successful one
<olaf_h>
when every ua in the wild is chromium based, than it reminds me the 90s, where MS ruled all tools
<beneroth>
well I'm all for individuality and freedoms, but ethical rules are only of good quality if you can exchange the people in the rule and it still looks good. I find this is not the case with most rules the SJW strive for.
<beneroth>
olaf_h, exactly, that is the case
<beneroth>
as Microsoft gave up having their own engine
<beneroth>
(apparently because Google/Youtube actively undermined their work, but nobody is claiming that officially)
<olaf_h>
did you explore gemini already? the is-no-gopher-and-no-web-but-kind-of protocol?
<beneroth>
lol also new to me!
<beneroth>
you need to tell me more stuff, dude! :D
<olaf_h>
:-)
<beneroth>
sounds obviously like a meaningful idea
<beneroth>
"Da Gemini die Verantwortung von Inhalt und Darstellung trennt, haben Verfasser wenig Kontrolle, wie ihre überlieferten Informationen bei den Empfängern dargestellt werden; vielmehr entscheiden die Nutzer durch die Wahl und Konfiguration ihres Clients über die gewünschte Darstellung der Dokumente."
<beneroth>
and that is Kritik, LOOOL
<beneroth>
that is the web
<beneroth>
fucking mainstream morons
<beneroth>
lets build a browser that renders every <table> as searchable, filterable, exportable and the whole JS plugin business industry collapses...
<beneroth>
nice
<beneroth>
olaf_h, thank you for telling me about gemini :D
<beneroth>
and let me know when you tested Volla and I get one too
<beneroth>
you got the android variant or the ubuntu variant?
<olaf_h>
i was irritated by that, of course, because the langrange browser changes color and size of fonts - without having any markup in the source for that ....
<beneroth>
hm
<olaf_h>
typo ... lagrange i think
<olaf_h>
yur're welcome
<beneroth>
gemini seems really new, just really starting a few months ago
<beneroth>
wow
<beneroth>
thanks mate
<beneroth>
that might also be an idea, abandoning the web altogether
<beneroth>
lets go back to use different ports and protocols optimized for the purpose instead of the HTTP madness
<beneroth>
(I like HTTP, but DNS over HTTP should have stayed a stupid idea)
<olaf_h>
you're welcome, i received the link to an c't article (german magazine) by a friend, vollaphone i found by myself
<beneroth>
yeah I know c't
<olaf_h>
shall i look for the link?
<beneroth>
but I stopped reading heise.de regularly, their tracking became too annoying
<beneroth>
yes please
<olaf_h>
... mompl....
<olaf_h>
ah, unfortunately was no link but pdf, c't 2021 nr 6 page 128
<olaf_h>
ct.de/ykqp offers some links mentioned in the article
<olaf_h>
ah, and link toarticle on that page works - 'Kleine Rakete' was the title
<olaf_h>
so i wish much fun with gemini 'kapsel'n, beneroth :-) i have to leave here, see you next time
<olaf_h>
bye regenaxer, thanks a lot for reminding me the Shift-Control-R for deep BrowserRefresh :-)
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<Regenaxer>
ret
<Regenaxer>
Sorry, missed a lot
<beneroth>
np
<beneroth>
welcome back :)
<beneroth>
gemini might be interesting for you too
<clacke>
olaf_h: beneroth I an indeed a user of matrix.org
<clacke>
I wouldn't be on IRC without it
<beneroth>
I'm on IRC and nothing else. Well, that is not true, but it should be.
<clacke>
I don't want to run my own bouncer and the centralized bridge has been really stable after the first rickety steps four years ago
<beneroth>
if you had a phone you could control yourself, you could run the bouncer on the phone.
<clacke>
I tried to leave Matrix for XMPP and an IRC bridge there, but it didn't measure up
<beneroth>
yeah I suspect XMPP is way to bloated
<clacke>
the point of the bouncer is that it's on a stable line and always on
<clacke>
matrix is more bloated than xmpp
<beneroth>
uh
<clacke>
but they put a lot of effort into their bridges
<beneroth>
not enough for the needs of Regenaxer, afaik
<beneroth>
the WhatsApp API worked better for the limited time when it was usable
<beneroth>
clacke, what are the main benefits? one app instead of 5?
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<clacke>
I only use it for IRC basically =)
<clacke>
so it's one more apo either way
<clacke>
I can either use an IRC app and.get disconnected all the time and not have any history
<clacke>
or I can use Matrix and after I leave IRC for two years and come back three phones later, it still remembers the conversations I had back then
<clacke>
and when I go to bed and my phone puts its wifi to sleep I still get a log of what was said while I was gone because from IRC's viewpoint I'm still connected
<Regenaxer>
clacke: You reach me on Matrix as @abu:7fach.de
<clacke>
cool
<beneroth>
so you just use matrix as a free bouncer
<beneroth>
Regenaxer, interesting namespace discussion on ML :)
<beneroth>
good sign!
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<Regenaxer>
beneroth, indeed
<Regenaxer>
Good to see that people investigate the details
<beneroth>
exactly
<beneroth>
good to have the vital knowledge on multiple shoulders ;-)
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