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<samth>
dzoe: there's not a standardized format for license info
<samth>
dzoe: i think something was wrong with the server, but it's not clear what
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<countvajhula>
nice dzoe samth , now that I think about it I did try installing the terminal space shooter game recently - that may have added the ansi dependency. i seem to have reported this in the right place :)
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<countvajhula>
hi, i have a macro question: i'd like to write a macro to replace a built-in one (i.e. with the same name) while internally retaining a pointer to the one being replaced
<countvajhula>
how would I do this without the internal reference resulting in an infinite loop to itself?
<countvajhula>
I think the internal reference would need to be namespaced in some way, to differentiate it from the new macro being defined, but i'm not sure how to do that
<countvajhula>
basically `require`ing the built-in version of the macro under a different name as a duplicate, and using that alternate name within the macro definition
<countvajhula>
didn't realize that require form renaming would work for syntax too, neat!
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<countvajhula>
cool, I just realized that re-providing an import verbatim doesn't lead to compile errors (identifier already required) when both modules are imported from a third module. i guess racket's compiler is smart enough to know they are the same object
<countvajhula>
that opens up some possibilities to avoid annoying `require` exclusions/renaming
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<dzoe>
countvajhula, dustyweb: Jay has agreed on merging changes to racket-ansi, I'll prepare it tonight.
<dzoe>
dustyweb: I still have the impression that unix-signals are not necessary for terminal-phase, but the dependencies pull it in, if I have some time I'll try to find a solution for that as well.
<dzoe>
I have basically switched over to CS for all of my work anyway.
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<countvajhula>
notice that CS is the only build that failed
<countvajhula>
i was using 7.6 CS before and haven't seen this before
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<dzoe>
Well, if you can get your hands on gdb-attached raco setup while it hangs, I am pretty sure, Matthew will fix it immediately.
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<countvajhula>
how does one attach gdb?
<dzoe>
Hunting bugs like this, I usually wrote a shell oneliner to start under gdb in the first place.
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<dzoe>
And now I am neither fixing nor developing anything... procrastination time!
<dzoe>
And by procrastination I mean, of course, writing 3D games for text terminal in Racket - http://joe.cz/tmp/td4/ ;-)
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<countvajhula>
oh dang, those look amazing
<dzoe>
It's just a 80x24 terminal with unicode font.
<countvajhula>
and good idea, i'll look into hooking up gdb. since it's transient it may be hard to track down. I might just report it for now and then update with more info if I manage to get it
<countvajhula>
you mean the sprites are all made up of unicode characters?
<dzoe>
No, it is an actual terminal :)
<dzoe>
There is no graphics output involved.
<countvajhula>
how do you refresh the frames? freshly printing one screen at a time?
<dzoe>
That is easy, a (bytes?) buffer that I populate and then write-bytes the whole frame at once.
<dzoe>
And then some (current-inexact-milliseconds) trickery to limit the frame rate to roughly 60fps.
<dzoe>
Without the limiter it runs around 250fps right now. And there are parts which are highly inefficient. I'll look into that later.
<dzoe>
I am more interested in finishing lighting/shading before I dive into some more optimizations.
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<dzoe>
My colleague convinced me I should implement it as telnet server - which means I will finally port my old NVT code and probably create a full-featured package for that before I finish this.
<aeth>
The problem with Godot, of course, is that it's GDScript first and C# second, and GDScript is some custom Python-like language that basically no tool outside of Godot's editor will support, making it completely useless as a language.
<aeth>
So even if you can run a Lisp in Godot, it's going to be a third class citizen.
<aeth>
And you'll have to translate examples from a language that literally nobody knows.
<dzoe>
For graphics, it should provide double/triple buffering support, some scene rendering ...
<dzoe>
Sound? Music and effects mixing, positioned sound?
<dzoe>
Physics? 2D/3D? How to configure that?
<dzoe>
Networking? Uh-oh ... Server side? ...
<dzoe>
It is relatively straightforward to implement any of those for particular game type.
<dzoe>
So a "game engine for FPS" or "game engine for platform arcade" make sense to me.
<dzoe>
But those "big" game engines - I do not see the value for individual developer who just wants to hack something from time to time. Quite contrary actually.
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<countvajhula>
you'd think that after all this time "game engine" would be more decoupled instead of monolithic, like all of those components would be independently written and pluggable via common interfaces
<dzoe>
And what about a "game engine for Dwarf Fortress" - graphics is super easy, sound is just playing some music ... but the mechanics? CRAZY
<dzoe>
countvajhula: That would be amazing - but to achieve that, you cannot use corporate development methods and hired coding monkeys.
<aeth>
dzoe: A game engine is a lot of, in isolation, simple tasks that all have to be done together (except sound, that's pretty cleanly isolated from the rest) before you get any tangible results that don't look terrible.
<aeth>
That's the hard part.
<aeth>
That and supporting a ton of third party formats, like importing in 3D models and textures.
<dzoe>
You would need people with understanding of the "game engine" part and people with deep understanding of programming languages that would make it easy to use.
<dzoe>
aeth: Agreed, it's always one of the first things I encounter every semester :)
<dzoe>
Explaining to students that it's OK they want to develop games, it is actually very challenging and they can learn a lot ...
<dzoe>
... but without math, algorithms, graphics ... and a metric ton of other hard things, they won't be able to even write a coherent demo game.
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<aeth>
Game engine math is simple if you have a numerical(ish) CS background, which is increasingly common because of things like machine learning, but which is still a specialization that not everyone with a CS background will encounter.
<aeth>
As an undergraduate class, it must be even harder, since it can't assume that you took numerical/ML classes first.
<aeth>
I mean, that's kind of backwards, actually. Games caused GPUs which drove modern machine learning. So technically, ML is just taking advantage of hardware used to accelerate some parts of computer game math.
<dzoe>
Yup
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