ChanServ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p125: http://ruby-lang.org | Paste >3 lines of text on http://pastie.org or use a gist
<zenspider> whitequark: ? I was making commentary on the silence
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<whitequark> zenspider: sure, I understood that and began reading the backlog
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<whitequark> and then became curious about the siren thing, whatever it is
<zenspider> siren song
<whitequark> it is related to lowlevel, therefore probably interesting
<zenspider> it's on my blog
<whitequark> hm
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<whitequark> ahh, I've already read it
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<whitequark> but I don't really understand what kind of result do you want to achieve...
<whitequark> is it just a really really weird project/tdd tutorial?
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<postmodern> is there a library that can infer the gender of a given name?
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<drbrain> none that I've heard of
<postmodern> or maybe a database I can reuse?
<drbrain> what do you do for "Pat"
<drbrain> "Chris"?
<postmodern> drbrain, i'll have to rewatch the old Saturday Night Live episodes for Pat
<postmodern> see how they handled it
<postmodern> basically i need a function that can go from "Foo Bar" => "(Mr.|Mrs.) Bar"
<drbrain> why not just "Dear Bar"
<postmodern> drbrain, might work, but sounds weird
<canton7> making guesse like that is generally a bad idea. people tend to get offended if you get it wrong
<drbrain> it'll probably save you from angry mail recipients
<canton7> which you will, sooner or later
<drbrain> I'd be upset
<zzak> Dear Ms. Erica Hodel
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<zenspider> postmodern: pretending there is such a thing as binary gender is a mistake.
<zenspider> whitequark: huh? no. it's supposed to be some software that lets you listen to your code running
<whitequark> postmodern: there is, but I don't recall a name
<whitequark> it uses a really big public domain database
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<drbrain> there's also the problem of parsing out a "first name"
<whitequark> drbrain: and it has 5 grades for names, from "certainly male" to "mostly male" to "not sure" to ... to "certainly female"
<whitequark> Compares two values of any type and structure and returns true if they are the same. It does a deep comparison of the structures, so a hash of a hash of a whatever will be compared correctly.
<whitequark> use Struct::Compare;
<whitequark> erm, sorry
<whitequark> my $is_different = compare($ref1, $ref2);
<whitequark> damned middle-click paste
<drbrain> … looks like perl
<whitequark> yes, it's from zenspider's website
<whitequark> I tend to select paragraphs of text while reading
<whitequark> and then this touchpad sometimes thinks that a 3-finger tap is actually a 2-finger tap
<whitequark> and you see what happens.
<drbrain> I cured myself of that habit. It was dificult
<whitequark> what for?
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<drbrain> well, I didn't have random crap in my clipboard anymore
<whitequark> yeah, I would probably have some password then :)
<drbrain> the biggest problem was my font was too small
<drbrain> making the font bigger makes paragraphs easer to read
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<drbrain> then I don't forget where I was
<whitequark> hm, I don't forget the position and never did, it's just a weird habit
<whitequark> no idea how it has evolved
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<whitequark> postmodern: sorry, I can't seem to find the library
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<postmodern> whitequark, thanks for looking
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<zzak> drbrain: still around?
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<zzak> knu: drbrain: i've got a doc patch for lib/abbrev: https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/6985
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<MouseTheLuckyDog> I just encountered the FileTest module in 1.9.3 . What's the history of this module? DO I have to use it if I want the functionality in it?
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<ryanf> hey steveklabnik
<ryanf> how come the site for your book doesn't have your name anywhere on it?
<ryanf> seems a bit unorthodox
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<yorickpeterse> Morning
<rue|w> HI THERE
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<erikh> HELLO
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<yorickpeterse> Reached a nice milestone today: my Ruby parser is now capable of parsing itself without errors :>
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<yorickpeterse> Still not parsing everything though, classes and modules (and a few other things) still have to be taken care of
<erikh> fun.
<erikh> my goal today is to learn enough rust to write a small program.
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<ryanf> yorickpeterse: does that mean your parser is written without defining any classes or modules?
<yorickpeterse> No, it means it still uses Ripper's default sexp output when it finds a class or module
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<zzak> erikh: you're up early
<erikh> woke up at 1pm today
<zzak> oh wait, its only midnight PST
<erikh> need to get my sleep schedule fixed, so I'll be staying up today
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<erikh> interesting, rust is self-hosted already
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<erikh> it's just amazing how complete it is already
<yorickpeterse> meh, I don't like the syntax
<yorickpeterse> It's as if they went "EWWWW PARENTHESIS/BRACES" but without actually removing the braces
<erikh> ruby has the braces too, it just makes them wordier
<yorickpeterse> I don't mind the braces but something like `if foobar { ... }` just looks weird to me
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<erikh> oh, I'll bet you (just like ruby) you can use parens there if you desire it.
<erikh> it's like dot syntax in scala -- it's totally something you can do but the language author prefers the dotless method
<erikh> and he's writing the manual, so...
<erikh> I really like how local variables are implicitly const'd
<erikh> and language constructs are expressions ala ruby.
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<yorickpeterse> "implicitly const'd"?
<erikh> yeah. 'let' implies first assignment only, errors out if you try to reassign
<erikh> you use 'let mut' to create variables that can be mutated within scope
<erikh> it also does this with inference so you don't have to predeclare any types if you'd prefer not to
<yorickpeterse> Ah
<erikh> it may not be everyone's desire, but they have their shit together for sure.
<erikh> I guess what I'm saying is that it's remarkably mature for something that was really only publicized a month or two ago
<erikh> even has syntax support for vim and emacs.
<yorickpeterse> How does it compare to other compiled languages such as C and Haskell in terms of performance?
<yorickpeterse> Or is this something you haven't looked into yet?
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<erikh> nah, not yet
<erikh> I imagine it's much slower. Last I heard, fortran compilers generated the fastest code, but only because they had a 20 year or so head start
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<whitequark> moo
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<andrewvos> Current Status: Arguing that PHP is shit in a channel filled with PHP programmers.
<erikh> andrewvos: there are no shitty languages, only shitty programmers.
<tbuehlmann> hah, wanted to write that..
<canton7> some languages don't make it exactly easy though
<Future[Chimp]> Computer languages are like human languages - they usually have distinct cultures associated with them.
<andrewvos> erikh: That is wrong. PHP is a shitty language.
<canton7> my current gripe is they randomly decided to shift method/function names from snake_case to CamelCase. so no standard I can adopt looks consistent
<tbuehlmann> and they even differ when using different locals, which is pretty funny
<canton7> I did spend some time extend e.g. ArrayObject to to provide methods similar to ruby's array
<canton7> *time try to extend
<canton7> *trying (still drinking my morning coffee)
<erikh> andrewvos: dunno, seems to work well for yahoo and facebook. that said, they're using it where it's done best.
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<erikh> andrewvos: c'mon man, this effort is wasted if you don't rage out of control at me
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* andrewvos can not hear anything
<erikh> can you read this: umadbro
<andrewvos> :)
<andrewvos> ok, so, where is it "done best" then?
<erikh> seriously, yahoo and facebook use it strictly for upper-middle-tier programming and that's it
<erikh> real backend work goes to C and C++ mostly.
<erikh> similar to how amazon used to do perl, although I'm told it's mostly just C and C++ these days with some java splashed in
<andrewvos> Reddit use only two columns and that works. Still not a good idea.
<erikh> reddit actually has downtime, to
<erikh> o
<andrewvos> Reddit goes down more than your mom
<andrewvos> haha sorry
<andrewvos> bit far there
<erikh> my mom's pushing 60. good for her, she needs her bones rattled.
<andrewvos> hehe
<banisterfiend> erikh: isn't the reason they're using PHP mainly historical ? i.e the time they wrote it PHP was the only option
<erikh> with facebook to a degree, but I doubt that's the real issue still.
<banisterfiend> also i guess there's tonnes of PHP engineers so they have no problem finding willing code monkeys
<erikh> yahoo introduced php later
<erikh> yahoo *predates* php, and it would be wise to remember that
<banisterfiend> and for websites the size of yahoo and facebook
<erikh> right, lots of young, cheap, effective php programmers
<banisterfiend> the need tonnes of engineers
<banisterfiend> they*
<bnagy> I guess that's the outsourcing issue
<banisterfiend> though youtube is python apparently
<banisterfiend> and that's a huge site
<bnagy> you get way less US software engineers per tonne
<erikh> I don't think google uses php anywhere
<andrewvos> hehehe
<erikh> that said, they're not writing bigtable in python either
<banisterfiend> erikh: well they buy out so many companies, im sure some of them use PHP on their products ;)
<banisterfiend> i bet blogspot was php
<banisterfiend> shitty thing anyway
<erikh> I'll ask tomorrow
<erikh> they recently redid it, it's actually pretty neat now
<rohit> I think Orkut was PHP, but they bought it
<erikh> has a lot of influence from readability.com for sure
<banisterfiend> ah it's written in java
<rohit> or maybe it was ASP
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<erikh> I wonder how many people ask questions on SO and quora just to answer them with a puppet account
<erikh> to get mad pointzzzzz
<banisterfiend> i prefer the various stackexchange sites to quora
<banisterfiend> quora just seems like a prettier yahoo answers
<erikh> I'm glad the knowledge base is out there, but won't participate myself.
<erikh> anyhow, between rails and php and node.js I'm very glad I'm in ops now
<erikh> banisterfiend: you'd probably dig how rust handles parallelism
<erikh> it actually lets you allocate on the stack, a private heap and a shared heap with implicit locking
<erikh> so, voila, memory barrier problems go poof
<banisterfiend> erikh: is it C-like or what? what languages does it feel like?
<erikh> it's some weird mixture of C++ and OCaml
<erikh> with a lot of influence from ruby.
<banisterfiend> explicitly from ruby? i mean do they acknowledge that?
<erikh> it's not very long, I clicked through it in about 1.5 hours
<erikh> banisterfiend: only in a couple of spots do they tip their hat to ruby, but the influence is pretty obvious.
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<erikh> anyhow, you should check it out. there are a lot of good ideas in there.
<injekt> :)
<banisterfiend> erikh: i'm doing a course on scala in a couple of weeks
<erikh> neat
<erikh> teaching or learning?
<injekt> lol scala
<injekt> good luck if you need support on their irc channel
<erikh> I think scala is where all the assholes from the lisp community went right after a brief tour through the world of haskell
<banisterfiend> injekt: the course is taken by the language creator, and it's pretty interactive i.e you can ask him questions and he'll answer (or one of the instructors will, at least for the course duration)
<injekt> cool
<banisterfiend> erikh: well im not really learning it for scala, more to get a handle on functional programming ;)
<banisterfiend> which i dont have at all, really
<erikh> ah
<erikh> FP as a concept really isn't complicated
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<banisterfiend> just a little sense from when i messed with elisp and got used to writing recursive functions for everything
<injekt> I learned and wrote scala for about 2 months. I enjoyed the language but would fight every single time I wanted help
<erikh> it's just that FP is dominated by mathtards who overcomplicate everything
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<injekt> it's one of those languages where there's 10 billion ways to do something, but only 1 of them wont get you beheaded
<erikh> you're a perl programmer
<erikh> you should be used to this
<injekt> heh
<injekt> true
<injekt> I think the 'do this to optimize for the jvm' was the worst
<erikh> oh. yeah.
<injekt> I heard that more than anything
<erikh> see my statement above about overcomplication
<injekt> write it like this and it'll be 400x faster... that is not right :D
<injekt> aye
<injekt> wow I'm watching paralympics and some of the shit these guys do is incredible
<erikh> I hate to be such a douche about this, but more often than not people right out of college love FP, and then at around 28 it finally hits them that none of this shit matters
<injekt> aye
<erikh> at least that's the pattern I've seen
<injekt> It's one of those things you should learn to know it, but not be religious about it
<erikh> I worked at a shop when I was really young where I'd come up with all these cool ideas, and my seniors would say, "remember, we're building a website to sell guitars to stoners."
<erikh> took a bit, but it grounded me
<injekt> the last like 18 months I've changed massively in the way I do things, and well.. I kinda just get shit done now. a LOT more shit
<erikh> aye
<injekt> and it was actually mostly based on something you said
<injekt> so I guess I have you to thank
<erikh> haha, really?
<erikh> what'd I say? was I drunk?
<injekt> yeah I was complaining about something stupid, and we were discussing it, before you replied "what are you doing? just get it done"
<injekt> possibly
<injekt> paraphrasing a little
<erikh> haha yeah, or I was tired
<erikh> I get really short when I'm tired.
<banisterfiend> erikh: for data.each |byte| { acc += #fmt("%02x", byte as uint); }
<injekt> it helped anyway
<erikh> cool.
<banisterfiend> erikh: what the heck is that ? :P looks like a bizarre mix of for..in and enum.each
<banisterfiend> ^Rust
<erikh> banisterfiend: yeah; for is actually a kind-of macro that just inlines the processing of the last argument as a block
<erikh> for has no explicit structure other than it expects the last argument to be a block (properly labeled a closure in rust-speak)
<banisterfiend> erikh: so arbitrary methods can't accept blocks?
<erikh> you can write it this way too, if I recall right: each(data, fn |byte| { acc += #fmt(...) })
<erikh> for is just syntactic sugar. do is the same way.
<injekt> oo you started getting more into rust today?
<banisterfiend> ruby FTW
<erikh> injekt: read the whole tutorial, now to write some programs.
<injekt> nice
<erikh> banisterfiend: yeah, I mean, it's not that different from ruby really
<banisterfiend> erikh: who backs Rust? any big companies?
<erikh> mozilla
<banisterfiend> oh ok
<erikh> it's a 100% mozilla sponsored project
<injekt> :D
<erikh> it's not going away.
<erikh> the team is full time staff.
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<erikh> what's neat is that those blocks can also be stored on the heap
<erikh> well, heap(s)
<erikh> so they can be used in concurrent programs pretty trivially as long as you stay within the allocation rules for the different heaps.
<erikh> (think Celluloid)
<injekt> do they have full concurrency?
<erikh> yes!
<erikh> their memory model is divine
<injekt> neat
<injekt> not that it matters, but what's the speed like iyo?
<erikh> basically, they have your standard stack, and a local heap, which are not shared, and a second heap for shared access, but require that each concurrent component utilize that heap's values uniquely
<erikh> basically all the memory barrier/mutex work is done for you, provided you can keep the compiler happy.
<rue|w> Rust is the awesomest
<erikh> speed wise, I don't know yet. I've written hello world and read the tutorial, that's about it.
<injekt> ah
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<erikh> I'm not too concerned really. given it's compiling to native code the performance possibilities are likely endless
<erikh> it's not like python or ruby where great strides have to be made for real significant performance gains, like rubinius or pypy
<injekt> yeah
<injekt> what do they use it for? (mozilla) looking around but can't find much on that
<injekt> any idea?
<erikh> heh, no idea there, it's still solidifying, been public for about 2 months now.
<injekt> oh that's all
<andrewvos> I'm pretty good at starting conversations and the promptly buggering off. That is my talent here.
<erikh> dunno. it's really intriguing and there seems to be a lot of room for awesome provided they don't D it up
<injekt> ohhh macros
<erikh> :)
<injekt> dammit
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<injekt> NO
<erikh> format strings are provided by macros :)
<injekt> yeah just noticed that
<injekt> hmm
<erikh> oh, and the whole task/parallelism abstraction has proper communication channels too
<erikh> you don't really have to care how it gets there, but it's typed and structured and all that.
<injekt> wow their memory system is fucking inteligent
<injekt> unlike my spelling
<erikh> yeah. I was really impressed.
<injekt> intelligent*
<injekt> @T ~T &T *T
<erikh> :)
<injekt> not sure on the whole 'define this function argument as mutable' perl 6 has something similar iirc
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<erikh> the approach is an FP one
<erikh> ocaml does it similarly IIRC, but it's been a long time
<banisterfiend> erikh: does it have a gc
<erikh> it's basically how I program now so it doesn't bother me
<injekt> ah
<erikh> banisterfiend: yep, that's why the memory model is the way it is
<banisterfiend> erikh: oh ok
<injekt> yeah the memory model has impressed me massively and I've only read the docs
<erikh> the general idea being that the compiler should be able to determine at compile time what's using what, and optimize appropriately
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<erikh> anyhow, you guys should read the tutorial. I imagine it'll be a while before its viable for real world stuff, but it's definitely got some great steps in the right direction
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<injekt> yeah checking it out
<injekt> does rust have generics?
<erikh> yep, it's fully generic.
<injekt> crap
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<injekt> i miss generics
<erikh> it also abuses the ocaml style pattern matching stuff to get even more obscene
<erikh> (which are really just high-powered case statements)
<injekt> interfaces, implementations, classes, types, modules
<injekt> jeez
<erikh> it doesn't do inheritance at all though
<erikh> not sure how I feel about that.
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<injekt> interesting
<injekt> ah you'd use an interface and polymorphism to try and sold the same thing inheritance does
<injekt> solve
<erikh> one thing I really dig on is that each library has a file solely dedicated to namespace structure
<erikh> injekt: right
<injekt> so many keywords
<erikh> yeah it's got a lot of syntax, but it's pretty consistent in its use
<erikh> there's not a lot of implicit rules that I found in the tutorial at least, and most of them were related to the memory model
<banisterfiend> erikh: do its blocks have non local returns?
<injekt> yeah lots of appreviations which are kinda easy to remember
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<erikh> banisterfiend: they jump out of the called function, if that's what you're asking
<banisterfiend> erikh: cool so they behave like rubys blocks (rather than ruby's lambdas) with respect to 'return' ?
<erikh> correct
<injekt> :)
<erikh> and it does implicit last-value return too, not that it's relevant here but people like that thing
<banisterfiend> is there an equivalent of instance_eval ?
<injekt> oh didn't know that
<injekt> neat
<banisterfiend> btw is instance_eval unique to ruby? whta other languages have it?
<erikh> injekt: let val = if x { y } else { z }
<injekt> erikh: ah yes
<erikh> banisterfiend: eval in general is generally the domain of interpreted langauges
<banisterfiend> string-based evals, but i mean evaluating a block in a different context
<banisterfiend> i guess that's pretty dynamic-y too
<erikh> that's what interfaces provide, as I understand it.
<erikh> but don't hold me to that
<erikh> you can bind interfaces to any type
<erikh> bbiam
<erikh> banisterfiend: there are non-local closures too, which would probably be a more suitable fit
<erikh> this is all in the tutorial :)
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<banisterfiend> erikh: what's a nonlocal closure?
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<erikh> def foo(x, y); return lambda { x.call(y) }; end
<erikh> x is carried with the lambda, a traditional closure.
<matti> :)
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<matti> Where is it being carried? ;]
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<erikh> it stays with the lambda
<injekt> to ur moms bed
<erikh> so, b = foo(lambda { |z| z + 1 }, 3); b.call would yield 4
<erikh> anyhow, I need a brain break
<erikh> bbl
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<matti> I was just being silly ;d
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<banisterfiend> i dont get how the traditional closure was different to a non-local closure though
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<erikh> read the damned tutorial already
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<matti> hi hi banisterfiend
<matti> banisterfiend: ;] ;] ;] ;] ;] ;]
<banisterfiend> matti: sup homo
* matti hugs banisterfiend
<matti> *kiss* *kiss*
<matti> ;d
<matti> banisterfiend: I am tired ;/ 4 h of sleep only. My work is killing me.
<banisterfiend> matti: get drunk
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<matti> Drunk?
<matti> Why?
<banisterfiend> because it's better than being sober
<matti> Oh, I see your insight there.
<matti> ;d
<banisterfiend> matti: there's a quote: "I pity those who do not drink, as when they wake up in the morning that is the best they are going to feel all day."
<banisterfiend> frank sinatra i think
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<banisterfiend> erikh: we're getting pry t-shirts made, which one of these do u think is the most k00: http://cl.ly/image/0X0f3t0w3v3z
<banisterfiend> freel free to say "none they all look crap" ;)
<banisterfiend> feel
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<darix> banisterfiend: first one
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<banisterfiend> darix: thanks
<banisterfiend> i like that one too
<banisterfiend> darix: i nevr got the point of whatsapp
<banisterfiend> darix: why not just send msgs via gtalk ?
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<injekt> because then you'd need a gtalk account
<banisterfiend> doesnt everyone have a google/gmail account by this stage? :) maybe not..
<matti> Geez I suck at web things.
<injekt> banisterfiend: us internet people sure
<darix> i only have one for being gsoc mentor
<banisterfiend> injekt: yeah i guess setting up a google account these days is really intrusive
<darix> so i dont really use it^^
<banisterfiend> they even ask for phone numbers
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<banisterfiend> and the button to 'skip' adding a phone number is really small and almost hidden
<darix> banisterfiend: without gsoc I wouldnt have one.
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<injekt> my girlfriend still uses an aol email :/
<banisterfiend> darix: what project were oyu mentoring for?
<darix> opensuse :)
<darix> osc2
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<darix> did i mention we released 12.2 and it comes with 1.9 by default?
<banisterfiend> injekt: is this the most exquisite brunette ever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfSYeXPQaQI
<banisterfiend> darix: nice
<banisterfiend> darix: i used suse years ago back when it was cool ;)
<injekt> wtf am i watching
<darix> was? pff!
<banisterfiend> which was just after redhat stopped being cool
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<banisterfiend> and before the rise of debian
<darix> we are still cool. they are not. :p
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<banisterfiend> darix: isn't it now just thought of as some quirky european distro? :P
<banisterfiend> (/troll)
<darix> tststs
<banisterfiend> injekt: are you transfixed
<darix> it is funny to look at stats graphs of mirrors. you saw directly when we released^^
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<injekt> banisterfiend: no I closed the tab pretty quickly tbh
<banisterfiend> darix: sorry im stuck on osx these days
<banisterfiend> darix: what's the package manager like?
<darix> my condolences!
<banisterfiend> injekt: 2 bad
<darix> injekt: see my link. it is even SFW :)
<injekt> someone already sent me that like 3 times
<darix> banisterfiend: so good that if i recall correctly the bundler folks thought about using the algorithm behind it for bundler. ;)
<darix> also redhat/fedora will use libsat for their future package manager
<darix> libsolv
<darix> sorry :)
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<banisterfiend> darix: cool
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<banisterfiend> package management srsly sucks on osx
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<bnagy> what's wrong with ports?
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<banisterfiend> bnagy: in my experience it just didnt have a lot of stuff
<banisterfiend> i think other people have legitimate reasons to hate it too, hence the rise of homebrew
<banisterfiend> but homebrew is too crazy for me, i remember trying to install QT one time and it was going to take hours and download hundreds of megs of crap
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<bnagy> well qt is a bit like that
<bnagy> guess I been lucky with ports
<bnagy> I don't have particularly obscure needs, just standard unix base libs
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<anannie> I was wondering if someone could advise me how I should progress in my self-education. I've been trying to teach myself how to program and I've completed Learn Ruby The Hard Way and I would really like to find a book which teaches me the basics of computer science using ruby or a similar language whilst I learn the underlying math. I ideally want to be able to build something complex like a simple NLP parser within the next year or so on my
<anannie> own. What book/resource should I pick up next?
<banisterfiend> anannie: coursera
<banisterfiend> anannie: there's even courses on NLP
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<banisterfiend> anannie: work your way through the video lectures here: https://class.coursera.org/nlp/lecture/preview/index
<erikh> banisterfiend: the first one
<anannie> banisterfiend: Are there a lot of pre-requisites?
<banisterfiend> anannie: none, you can just watch the videos. I dont think the course is currently in session so you wont get credit for it, but the lectures are still up and you can self-educate by watching the vids
<anannie> banisterfiend: I was looking for something like this; https://www.coursera.org/course/algs4partI in ruby
<banisterfiend> i think they probably have exercises too
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<banisterfiend> anannie: well, i think you'd be lucky to learn algorithms in ruby. but the thing about algorithms is the language often isn't that relevant, you should be able to write it in ruby yourself once you understnad the idea
<banisterfiend> anannie: many algorithms books show the process in pseudo-code anyway
<banisterfiend> and pseudo-code --> ruby is pretty trivial translation
<banisterfiend> since ruby has basically no boilerplate
<banisterfiend> or very little
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<anannie> banisterfiend: Ah I see. Do you have any good books I can work my way through? I also want to expand my command over ruby/programming in general
<banisterfiend> anannie: if you want to learn ruby get 'eloquent ruby'
<banisterfiend> but it doesnt focus so much on algorithms as design patterns and ruby idioms
<banisterfiend> but honestly, "algorithms" per se aren't that useful to a programmer these days as nearly everything you'd learn in an algorithms course has already been implemented in the stdlib
<banisterfiend> such as sorting routines and so on
<banisterfiend> still good to know it i guess, but not necessarily important if you just want to get stuff done
<banisterfiend> i dont think i've ever had to implement a red-black tree outside of a programming assignemtn ;)
<anannie> banisterfiend: Actually I want to do a lot of AI work in my life, so those sorting procedures et al are pre-requisites to what I want to build
<banisterfiend> anannie: well then just follow the algorithms course at coursera
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<anannie> banisterfiend: Okay I shall. I'll get eloquent ruby as well, is there any other book that teaches through projects?
<banisterfiend> anannie: rubykoans, rubymonk
<banisterfiend> not books,b ut online resources
<anannie> banisterfiend: The goal is to be able to build something useful by the end of the next few months.
<anannie> banisterfiend: Rubykoans is equivalent to Learn Ruby The Hard Way right? I've already completed that and I was looking to go to the next level
<banisterfiend> anannie: try this http://rubymonk.com/
<bnagy> puzzlenode is good
<bnagy> but hard if you don't have a formal compsci background
<anannie> bnagy: I want to build a formal compsci background... :)
<banisterfiend> anannie: are you still in highschool?
<anannie> banisterfiend: No, I'm 20. Just didn't have the opportunity to go to college.
<banisterfiend> ah ok
<banisterfiend> anannie: well with things like coursera and MIT courseware and so on, you can give yourself a great compsci education for free
<banisterfiend> dont limit yourself to just ruby resources
<anannie> banisterfiend: That's the plan, but I want to be systematic at it, so that my learning is inductive otherwise it's going to be a huge mess.
<banisterfiend> a lot of those things will be in python or java
<darix> i am trying to wrap my head around erlang atm ...
<anannie> banisterfiend: I don't plan on doing so.
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<banisterfiend> anannie: cool, well just enroll in a tonne of online courses, learn whatever they teach you, and also learn ruby on the side, even translating what you learn into ruby if you have time
<anannie> banisterfiend: So I should learn python and Java as quickly as possible while implementing projects in ruby?
<banisterfiend> and you'll pretty much be set
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<banisterfiend> anannie: the courses should teach you python/java i think
<anannie> banisterfiend: Okay that sounds like a plan
<darix> anannie: the thing is "learn the concepts behind it" dont focus all that much on the language
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<banisterfiend> anannie: this one starts in about 2 weeks: https://www.coursera.org/course/programming1
<banisterfiend> in python
<banisterfiend> anannie: and if you find it too easy, well you'll just end up getting good grades :) I think employers might start to look at coursera sometime soon, if they're not already..
<anannie> darix: That's what I'm trying my best to do, but it's confusing and difficult to understand differing resources on my own
<banisterfiend> anannie: great thing about coursera is the interacgtive element, the forums are usually really active
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<anannie> banisterfiend: That's great. I'll go and do this
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<anannie> darix: The problem isn't one of understanding the concept, but shifting through something and understanding how all of this applies to something else. The hardest thing is connecting the dots and I'm just starting out so I don't have a lot of requisites. I know a bit of calculus and discrete math, but it's nothing special just the standard first year second semester level of stuff
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<banisterfiend> anannie: you could contribute to an opensource project
<anannie> banisterfiend: Oh? Isn't it likely that my own code will be quite crappy at the start?
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<banisterfiend> maybe, but they can just reject your pull requests and tell you how to improve it
<banisterfiend> just choose simple issues
<bnagy> meh at least half of open source is smashed in my mouthbreathers with their elbows, you'll probably be fine
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<anannie> banisterfiend: The first project I want to build is something that allows you to control a robot on the ground over the web. Maybe I can create an opensource equivalent in python of the RAD project which allows compilation of ruby into C
<anannie> for the arduino
<banisterfiend> sounds kind of intense for a first project..
<anannie> banisterfiend: I used to build robots and well the hardware bits are easy for me. The problem is building the code for all of that to work. It's going to be hard, but I think I'll learn a lot while making it
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<banisterfiend> anannie: cool, there's a girl on #ruby who does a lot of that kind of stuff you might like talking to her
<banisterfiend> anannie: nickname is blueblie
<banisterfiend> bluebie
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<rue|w> Goddamn #ruby.
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<anannie> banisterfiend: I would love to talk to someone like that. Thanks :)
<banisterfiend> she's not online right now though
<banisterfiend> anannie: her gihub: http://github.com/bluebie
<anannie> I googled her... I like her work and interest in ponies :)
<banisterfiend> yeah she's pretty awesome :)
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<anannie> banisterfiend: Thanks for helping me out, I've signed up for coursera and I'll start doing things one at a time. (I have a full time job, so I have only so many hours within which I can plug away at this)
<banisterfiend> g'luck
<anannie> banisterfiend: Can I please stay in touch?
<banisterfiend> sure, https://github.com/banister
<rue|w> The important bit is to keep at it, even if it does take a while
<anannie> rue|w: It'll take years...
<rue|w> Yep! Though you’ll start feeling like you’re getting somewhere far before that
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<anannie> rue|w: It is quite terrifying given the huge span of time and amount of work involved... I have to teach myself advanced calc., discrete math, analysis of circuits + algorithms, all of the practical bits involved, then mechanics, more advanced rigid body physics, biology, organic and inorganic chem... The list seems endless.
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<banisterfiend> anannie: why the heck do you need to learn all that?
<rue|w> It is certainly easier if you don’t really think much beyond immediate goals. Much more manageable
<anannie> banisterfiend: I want to automate mining... That's one of my end goals. I've always wanted to do robotics and be a proper engineer.
<banisterfiend> anannie: you'll definitely need to go to college to learn all that i think
<banisterfiend> no way you can autodidact at that level..
<anannie> banisterfiend: That isn't an option for the time being...
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<banisterfiend> k00
<banisterfiend> trailer for a _why lucky stiff doco http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47LtM830ocE
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<elux> hey guys
<elux> does anyone here use mongoid with jruby?
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<elux> i find it has quite a bit of overhead after doing some profiling..
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<headius> what sort of overhead did you find?
<headius> elux: ^^
<elux> hey :)
<elux> well.. right now its empirical evidence using ab. i have an endpoint requesting the first object from a collection using moped (the mongodb driver) and the same thing with mongoid (which uses moped) .. and there is a different of 180req/sec to 600req/sec
<elux> im running --profile.. but it actually crashes with jruby-head and jdk7u7.. but the profiler runs on jruby 1.6.7+jdk7u7
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<headius> oh that's not good…make sure you report that crash
<headius> mongoid must be doing something we have a problem with
<elux> actually i dont know if its really a crash.. it seems more like an infinite loop or something..
<elux> i will try to pin point it and create an example.. working on that now
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<elux> strange because i know Durran, the lead of mongoid uses jruby.. and wrote moped specifically for GIL-fee ruby's
<elux> gonna hammer through this and report back.. thx
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<headius> ok
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<andrewvos> I have a ten or so digit string, containing alphanumeric charactes. I want to generate a string that is as short as possible, is alphanumeric, and can't be converted back to the original string.
<andrewvos> So something like "KSD235345" => "ew43"
<andrewvos> And it must be unique for every key, cause it's going in the DB.
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<andrewvos> Is this even possible?
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<wnd> alphanumeric sounds like base-(26 * 2 + 10 = 62). converting to base64 would save you 3.125 %, but you wouldn't see anything unless your input was at least 32 digits long. :-)
<andrewvos> wnd: Ok I'll just randomly generate strings then and check them against the DB.
<andrewvos> Will get this done faster.
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<wnd> I just realised I read that "and can be converted back to the original"
<wnd> why don't you just use database serial (and possibly convert that to base-64 or base-62)
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<zzak> headius: do you have a beeper that goes off whenever anyone ever mentions jruby
<headius> I do
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<yl> Hello, I would like to make an announcement on the news section of ruby-lang. What is the best way to do it?
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<rue> yl: It’s curated and I assume reserved for mostly MRI news…you can try contacting the admin, or mail ruby-core maybe
<rue> What’s it about?
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<yl> rue: It's a call for paper announcement
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<bradland> for ruby CLI applications, is there a reason to `rescue Interrupt` prefer `trap(:INT)`?
<bradland> also, am I correct in assuming that calling trap affects all classes and modules run under the same process, regardless of namespace?
<bradland> wow, i botched that question. restated:
<bradland> for ruby CLI applications, is there a reason to prefer `rescue Interrupt` over `trap(:INT)`?
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<injekt> bradland: not really, trap catches the signal anywhere in the program though, where rescue would need to be used in every occurance
<rue> They do different things. Subtly.
<rue> Such as ^^
<bradland> yeah, that's kind of what i'm discovering
<bradland> i think i'll avoid trap, because it's kind global
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: ping
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<yorickpeterse> Hm, I think I already found it
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: pong
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<andrewvos> Error Bundler::HTTPError during request to dependency API
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<andrewvos> Haaaaaaalp
<andrewvos> Oh it's working now.
<andrewvos> Disregard everything I say, as usual :)
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<Erlkoenig> http://pastebin.com/RAszjx0K this has to be in the mainstream code.
<Erlkoenig> it's funny. laugh.
<drbrain> Erlkoenig: I went o_O
<Erlkoenig> i always choke when writing "is_a?(Array)" or something :D
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<Erlkoenig> blub = foo.thisMightReturnNil || (raise "foo.thisMightReturnNil returned nil"); ... is this a common/"legit" idiom?
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<lianj> not really
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<Erlkoenig> is there an other common short way to assign blub to the method's return value an raise an exception when it's nil?
<lianj> raise in the line below?
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<Erlkoenig> nooo to loooong
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<lianj> make the method raise by itself :P
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<lianj> or at least do raise(..) instead of (raise ..)
<Erlkoenig> well the method shouldn't raise itself, because "nil" is a totally legit return value in many cases
<Erlkoenig> well okay that's better
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