ChanServ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p125: http://ruby-lang.org | Paste >3 lines of text on http://pastie.org or use a gist
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<TTilus> whats keeping you from moving?
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<masterkorp> need to investigate more
<masterkorp> its on my ever growing todo list
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<erpuds> i'm looking for the best way to create a serialized JSON document from ruby objects with a specific tree structure
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<wmoxam> Can callbacks be referenced in an FFI::Struct?
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<bnagy> by pointer?
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<trietptm> hello everybody, I've just register a nick on freenode :)
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<trietptm> Hello everybody, I'm learning Ruby. I have a question: Is "\n" different from '\n'?
<rking> trietptm: Yes, definitely.
<rking> trietptm: Try them both. puts "hi\nhi"; puts 'bye\nbye'
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<trietptm> thank u rking
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<Spaceghostc2c> trietptm: Just try.
<Spaceghostc2c> You have a REPL.
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<Rakko> I has a repl
<Rakko> hi trietptm. Welcome to Freenode and Ruby!
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<trietptm> thank you :)
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<wardrop> Anyone know when Ruby (as in the main implementation) will finally support true native multi-threading? What's been the hold up.
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<whitequark> wardrop: never
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<whitequark> it's by design and can be changed only with a complete rewrite
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<wardrop> really? So I assume no one on the ruby-core team is planning a rewrite.
<wardrop> That's a damn shame if so
<ReinH> If you want native threads then jruby
<bnagy> lots of people disagree
<bnagy> GIL makes a lot of things easier
<bnagy> plus scaling with threads is like listening to Bronski Beat
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<ReinH> or IronRuby I guess, but no one actually uses that
<ReinH> or Rubinius
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<ReinH> also note that GIL and native vs green threads are orthogonal
<ReinH> you can have native threads with a GIL and green threads without
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<whitequark> ReinH: 1.9 effectively uses native threasd
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<anannie> Can someone please explain to me what the compare_by_identity method actually does? I've tried searching for references and for what identity over here means and I haven't found anything beyond the core documents; http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-1.9.3/Hash.html#method-i-compare_by_identity and http://kentreis.wordpress.com/2007/02/08/identity-and-equality-in-ruby-and-smalltalk/
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<ReinH> anannie: it makes a hash use .equal? instead of .eql? when comparing hash keys
<ReinH> but I've never actually seen it used
<bnagy> anannie: s1="a"; s2="a"
<bnagy> s1==s2 but they're not the same object
<anannie> they are not identical
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<ReinH> .equal? is true iff the argument is the same object as the receiver
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<ReinH> == is true if the argument has the same value as the receiver
<ReinH> so for instance 1 == 1.0 # => true
<ReinH> where "has the same value" can be defined differently for different classes
<ReinH> .eql? is true iff the objects are both == equal and the same type
<ReinH> at least this is the expected contract of these methods
<ReinH> you can define them to do whatever you want ofc
<bnagy> compare n1=3; n2=3 - because ruby fixnums are immediate, they are equal and eql
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<anannie> but n1 = 4; n2 = 5 is equal but not eql
<bnagy> ditto symbols, which is a lot of the point of them
<whitequark> whereas n1=3e20; n2=3e20 are eql, but not equal
<ReinH> anannie: uh no
<bnagy> anannie: no those are neither :)
<anannie> ReinH, bnagy: Okay, so it isn't the same object type either. It has to be exactly the same object?
<bnagy> that's the intent
<ReinH> anannie: equal? is true iff the object and the receiver are the same object
<ReinH> at least that's the expected behavior
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<anannie> so what does the compared_by_identity method do again when you put it into a hash? If I use it then I can't retrieve the values using the key, why?
<whitequark> you can think of equal? as this: def equal?(other); object_id == other.object_id; end
<ReinH> anannie: because it compares values using equal?
<ReinH> rather than eql?
<bnagy> anannie: depends what you use as keys
<bnagy> if you use fixnums, symbols etc it should work
<ReinH> so hash["a"] = 6; hash["a"] # => nil
<anannie> I'm using strings
<ReinH> because "a" and "a" are different objects
<ReinH> anannie: you don't want to use compare_by_identity
<ReinH> so... stop using it
<whitequark> anannie: there are rare cases where compare_by_identity is actually needed, namely finalizers
<whitequark> maybe some more
<anannie> ReinH: I was just playing around, trying to learn the language
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<ReinH> seems good
<anannie> so in the case of compare by identity I actually set it to use an object as a key of sorts. The hash will retrieve some value if and only if the referenced key is the same object
<ReinH> right
<anannie> If my understanding is correct then that's kind of cool because it's like a lock
<ReinH> I'm not sure how it's like a lock
<ReinH> it just changes the way a hack compares keys for equality
<ReinH> s/hack/hash
<certainty> a hack :D
<anannie> there's only one object, the same object that can "open" it and retrieve the value
<ReinH> anannie: sure
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<ReinH> I was thinking you meant something else by lock
<ReinH> but that makes sense
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<anannie> Yeah I use words in non-conventional ways. Sorry.
<ReinH> anannie: no, it's conventional, it's just that lock has another specific meaning in programming
<ReinH> which we were just discussing
<ReinH> so I was in the wrong context
<certainty> the problem is that there are other ways to access the values, so the analogy doesn't hold
<anannie> ReinH: Ah I see
<bnagy> also it's a really terrible lock in the lock-key sense cause you can just enumerate the hash
<ReinH> bnagy: not if I store thousands of values, most of which are bogus ;)
<anannie> bnagy: Which means?
<certainty> some_hash.values will give you all values. You don't need a key
<certainty> also as this is ruby, anything can quack like your key
<ReinH> certainty: depends on how object equality is checked
<ReinH> if it just checks the value in the C struct you can't
<ReinH> that would be the efficient way to do it
<ReinH> rather than message dispatch
<ReinH> after it hashes the obj ofc
<bnagy> yeah this has gone to an insane place
<ReinH> :p
<certainty> hehe
<ReinH> nope totes sane
<bnagy> it's not a security mechanism, it can't be used as a security mechanism
<bnagy> next.
<ReinH> bnagy: no one was suggesting it could be :p
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<anannie> thanks ReinH, bnagy, whitequark
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<erikh> holy crap rein talked in here? and didn't go on endlessly about haskell?
* erikh ducks
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<yorickpeterse> Morning
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<ReinH> erikh: :)
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<ddfreyne> ReinH: you doing haskell these days?
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<rue|w> OMG ReinH and ddfreyne
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<masterkorp> Does OptionParser have the ability to set an option as mandatory ? So if that option was not passed the app would fail
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<yorickpeterse> No, and that's not what options are for
<yorickpeterse> you'd use arguments (ARGV) for that
<masterkorp> to much options
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<bnagy> masterkorp: try trollop
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<whitequark> +1 on trollop
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<masterkorp> trollop seems nice
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<masterkorp> but since this a nagios plugin I will just get them directly and trow UNKNOWN if used badly
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<sandbags> am i missing some way to have "gem cleanup" default to "No" for dependency checks?
<sandbags> it gets very tiresome repeatedly typing "n<ent>"
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<soahccc> -T[level] Turns on taint checks at the specified level (default 1).
<soahccc> Is there any information how many levels there are and what they are for?
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<heftig> soahccc: it sets $SAFE
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<soahccc> heftig: Oh okay, thanks for that info :) Expected this to be mentioned at least in the manpage but well, might be more obvious for others :)
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<rue|w> masterkorp: Use slop
* rue|w waits for the Batjekt-signal to go off
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<zzak> Good morning!
<zzak> matti: pong
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<matti> zzak: Hi hi
<matti> zzak: Sir, you were calling?
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<zzak> you asked about contributing last night?
<matti> I did, yes ;]
<zzak> want to help me with documentation?
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<santosh> Can I change "1.9.3-p194 :003 >" to something like ">>>"?
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<santosh> Anybody on the channel?
<rking> santosh: 1) Use pry. 2) Learn why each piece of info in the pry prompt is there.
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<rue|w> 3) Change it anyway
<zzak> 4) profit?
<rue|w> (Also, you can set simpleprompt or somesuch in irb)
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<matti> 5) sudo make coffee
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<judofyr> whitequark: oooo, you've been blogging
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<andrewvos> I was just reading that! Didn't notice the url.
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<whitequark> judofyr: i do that sometimes
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<andrewvos> whitequark: Your writing style is great. Keep it up!
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<whitequark> andrewvos: thanks! I will.
<heftig> whitequark: so the error created by the invalid throw jumps to the finally?
<judofyr> whitequark: I bought EOPL3 :)
<whitequark> heftig: nope, I should have updated the article. It turned out that AVM2 pushes the exception object
<whitequark> that directly violates the spec
<whitequark> so the throw isn't invalid actually
<whitequark> judofyr: nice. how long until it arrives?
<judofyr> whitequark: 27. sep - 1. oct
<whitequark> somehow amazon managed to deliver it to russia in 2.5 days
<whitequark> portal gun, probably
<whitequark> I know no other way, especially if you consider the customs
<judofyr> well, I used the expensive shipping (from amazon.com to Norway)
<whitequark> ah, so DHL/FedEx
<whitequark> I did that, too
<whitequark> EMS has 20-30 days if you're lucky, and 40 to ∞ if not
<judofyr> I think they're always using DHL in Norway
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<judofyr> or FedEx
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<judofyr> whitequark: too bad it's already "Shipping soon"; I considered adding "Compiling with Continuations" which seems interesting.
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<judofyr> heard about it?
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<whitequark> judofyr: yeah
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<whitequark> it's a bit... overrated
<judofyr> whitequark: oh?
<whitequark> in the sense that SSA and CPS are exactly the same thing from the point of view of different camps
<whitequark> and SSA concepts are way more comprehensible than CPS ones
<whitequark> 'cause they don't require you to twist your brain inside out :)
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<judofyr> whitequark: what about the stackless-ness of CPSs?
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<whitequark> judofyr: the stack is captured by the concept of continuations
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<judofyr> whitequark: I meant, how do you do something similar in SSA?
<whitequark> err
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<judofyr> if they are exactly the same
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<whitequark> what exactly do you want to do? I don't understand you here
<judofyr> whitequark: what I'm actually asking: CPS makes certain control-flow very easy to implement (call/cc, return, throw etc.) and makes it possible to avoid using the stack at all. how is that done in SSA?
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<judofyr> whitequark: maybe I just should wait for EOPL3
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<whitequark> judofyr: CPS transform only adds continuation calls in tail position, i.e. none of the k-calls introduced by the transform increases stack size
<whitequark> so the presence of CPS does not help you to implement call/cc
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<whitequark> as per return and throw: return is just an edge to exit node, and throw is an abnormal/exceptional edge in SSA graph
<whitequark> s,is,produces,g
<whitequark> continuation call in a tail position is equivalent to a goto instruction
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<whitequark> (the arguments resemble live local variables)
<judofyr> whitequark: I thought CPS was about turning (a (b)) into (b (lambda (res) (a res))
<whitequark> judofyr: that's a side effect
<whitequark> CPS makes control flow explicit
<whitequark> there is no such thing as "implicit method exit". everything that could pass the control out of the current method is represented as a call
<whitequark> and calls which do not increase stack size, i.e. pass control between different parts of the current function or pass control upwards, are represented with continuation calls
<whitequark> see, a function represented as an SSA graph can be turned to a giant (let* ((l1 (lambda ...)) (l2 (lambda ...)))
<whitequark> where lX is block labels (anything which uniquely identifies the block), and lambdas contain the code in blocks
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<whitequark> then every edge becomes (k lX ...)
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<whitequark> *every normal edge
<whitequark> the return edge becomes (k res ...), the exceptional one (k err ...)
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<whitequark> er, I forgot to call the enter block in that (let*), but you (hopefully) got the idea
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<judofyr> whitequark: I think I do
<judofyr> gah, Amazon is too slow
<judofyr> it's still "Shipping Soon"
<judofyr> I ordered it yesterday dammit
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<zzak> 'merica
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<whitequark> judofyr: you've obviously never stared on "Pending customs review" for weeks
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<tsou> whitequark: i have :P
<judofyr> whitequark: customs review? haven't seen that here in Norway
<tsou> judofyr: you should see it every time you order something overseas..
<judofyr> tsou: it's been along time
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<judofyr> … since I've ordered something from Amazon
<tsou> judofyr: amazon.what?
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<judofyr> tsou: what?
<tsou> judofyr: which .tld? .com, .co.uk, .fr, ...
<judofyr> tsou: oh. .com
<judofyr> dunno why, but I've always ordered from there
<tsou> makes 0 sense :P
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<judofyr> I know
<tsou> unless it's unavailable on the european ones
<judofyr> I know
<tsou> hehe ok:)
<judofyr> still, should be here in 2-4 days
<tsou> since it's coming from the US
<tsou> it'll go through customs
<ericwood> .tld should be a TLD
<tsou> which is something the shipping company (and consequently amazon as well) have no control over..
<tsou> so it's 2-4 days to reach your country's customs, and there it may lurk for a while
<tsou> but norway shouldn't be messed up, so i wouldn't worry too much about it
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<tsou> ericwood: you can think of . as a .tld :P
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<judofyr> tsou: where are you located?
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<tsou> judofyr: france right now.. but i've shipped/ordered many things from many countries to many countries :P
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<tsou> worst customs i've experienced are those of brazil..
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<jperry2_> Hi everyone, is it best to create a Struct inside an initialize method or outside in the class definition using it?
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<rindolf> Hi all.
<rindolf> Hi all. «gem install --verbose ruby-debug19» is stuck on «Building native extensions. This could take a while...» for several good minutes now (on a Core i3 machine!) - what should I do?
<rindolf> And it does not appear to consume any substantial RAM or CPU or I/O or whatever.
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<andrewvos> rindolf: Upgraded to Mountain Lion recently?
<rindolf> andrewvos: I'm on Mageia Linux 3/Cauldron.
<andrewvos> Oh
<andrewvos> So no then?
<andrewvos> :)
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<rindolf> andrewvos: I'm not using a Macintosh machine.
<andrewvos> Yeah I'm joking
<rindolf> andrewvos: ah.
<andrewvos> I'm not a very funny man
<rindolf> andrewvos: yes, it was mildly funny.
<rindolf> /usr/share/ruby/gems/1.9.1/gems/linecache19-0.5.12/ext/trace_nums/trace_nums.c:39: undefined reference to `ruby_current_thread'
<rindolf> ==> sucks!
<andrewvos> rindolf: What part is it getting stuck on?
<andrewvos> Ooh
<andrewvos> rindolf: I say this a lot, but have you tried pry?
<andrewvos> rindolf: For debuggin.
<andrewvos> debugging*
<rindolf> Holy shit! It tried to install a new ruby distribution (of MRI).
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<rindolf> WTF?
<rindolf> andrewvos: I'm not familiar with pry?
<andrewvos> rindolf: It's an irb replacement, and much much more.
<rindolf> andrewvos: is it similar in essence to ruby-debug? Does it support 1.8.x?
<rindolf> andrewvos: is it also a debugger?
<andrewvos> binding.pry <-- put this in some code, and you're in the most beautifulest debugger in the world.
<andrewvos> Also, maybe: require "pry"
<andrewvos> rindolf: Yup it is.
<andrewvos> rindolf: And I do believe it supports 1.8.
<rindolf> andrewvos: OK.
<rindolf> andrewvos: thanks! I'll check it out.
<andrewvos> rindolf: Pleasure. I'm sure it will make you happy. Also, #pry
<rindolf> andrewvos: OK, now I'm getting a different error - /usr/share/ruby/site_ruby/rubygems/custom_require.rb:36:in `require': cannot load such file -- binary_puzzle_solver.rb (LoadError)
<rindolf> andrewvos: that's OK! Solved it with rspec -I. --color t/*.rb
<rindolf> The -I. flag was missing.
<andrewvos> :)
<rindolf> Though it was not necessary in ruby-1.8.c
<rindolf> Though it was not necessary in ruby-1.8.x.
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<darix> rindolf: in the past "." was added to the load path yes. but many think that is a security issue
<rindolf> darix: how strange.
<darix> rindolf: just imagine /tmp/binary_puzzle_solver.rb and launching your script in /tmp :)
<rindolf> darix: OK.
<injekt> jperry2: what do you mean?
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<rue|w> Wow, the bat signal was really slow
<injekt> wut
<rue|w> I sent a slop bat signal earlier
<injekt> haha
<injekt> I dont have slop as a highlight
<injekt> believe it or not
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<rue|w> O M A G
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<injekt> kinda funny as I haven't signed into irc for about 4-5 days
<andrewvos> What's the A for?
<injekt> amaginary
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<oddmunds> haha
<andrewvos> Actual?
<andrewvos> Oh My Actual God
<andrewvos> That took me longer than it should have.
<injekt> you're spending too much time on this, andrewvos
<injekt> ^
<andrewvos> OMAG
<rindolf> Oh My Atrocious God.
<andrewvos> But I learnt something new!
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<arch_is_awesome> I was wondering what would be a good book to start learning Ruby for someone with previous experience with C++, Python, and Haskell?
<rue> corundum: books?
<rue> Damn it, useless
<rue> arch_is_awesome: The Ruby Programming Language
<reactormonk> rue: coffee?
<rue> Or Eloquent Ruby, was the other one maybe?
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<rue> Yes that
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<rue> corundum: WTF dude?
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<arch_is_awesome> rue: Which would you pick of those two suggestions?
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<rue> They’re slightly different. Check the description and review
<rue> s
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<arch_is_awesome> From the description it looks like Eloquent Ruby is attempting to make Ruby my favorite language :P
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<arch_is_awesome> " Eloquent Ruby will help you “put on your Ruby-colored glasses” and get results that make you a true believer."
<oddmunds> does autotest work with 1.9.3?
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<whitequark> rue: what's up with corundum? I don't get your replies
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<rue> It’s a badly behaving bot
<arch_is_awesome> corundum: version
<rue> oddmunds: Sure
<oddmunds> i feel stupid
<arch_is_awesome> rue: Thanks!
<whitequark> corundum: hi
* whitequark shrugs
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<oddmunds> rue: what do i have to do to make autotest run my tests?
<oddmunds> i've got a test ./tests/marko_test.rb
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<oddmunds> which works when i call it from ruby tests/marko_test.rb
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<rue> I think it might be looking for test/, not tests/ by default
<oddmunds> in --help it says that it assumes tests in tests.
<rue> Dunno about that, but the traditional T::U pattern is test/test_*.rb
<oddmunds> oh
<rue> I don’t recall what the exact discovery search is. You can always of course define it yourself
<oddmunds> that was it
<oddmunds> :)
<oddmunds> thanks
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<oddmunds> does it have any documentation anywhere? everything seems half written or outdated.
<oddmunds> (and the --help actually says that it assumes tests to be in tests)
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<rue> OMG no zenspider
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<freedrull> so is seattle.rb today
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<drbrain> it is
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<erikh> so is the witching hour of my laundry
<erikh> both of which have similar importance to everyone
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<drbrain> … this is when you lose your socks?
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<workmad3> drbrain: it's when witchs steal his socks and cast voodoo curses on them
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<deryl> that voodoo that you do oh so well
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<erikh> hey, my socks are in high demand
<erikh> I have a veritable sock bubble
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<japhb> How do you unpack an subarrays into arguments cleanly in iterator syntax? In other words, I am currently doing: somehash.sort.each {|p| k = p[0]; v = p[1]; do_something_with_k_and_v } However, I'd rather something that obviated the need for the pointless k and v assignments. What sugar is available for that?
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<tsou> japhb: check each_slice
<japhb> tsou, in which class? I don't see it in the docs for either Array or Hash on ruby-doc.org
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<tsou> shoudl be in Enumerable
<tsou> but maybe I misunderstood your question
<tsou> yeah, i did :)
<tsou> if i did, then you can do foo.each { |k,v| ... }
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<japhb> Ah! Duh, I didn't expect that the iteration syntax was sensitive to block arity in that way
<tsou> it's the same with assignments
<japhb> So stupidly I didn't even try it. :-(
<tsou> you can do x, y = [1,2,4,5]
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<tsou> japhb: or even stuff like: x, y*, z = [1,2,3,4,5] which will set x to 1, y to [2,3,4], and z to 5
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<japhb> tsou, interesting. Can you extract more than one level of hierarchy that way?
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<tsou> japhb: you mean if you have your values in something like [[1,2,3],4] ?
<japhb> tsou, exactly.
<japhb> Can you get at 2 and 3?
<tsou> i don't think you can do it directly
<japhb> too bad
<tsou> but you can use .flatten on it
<japhb> Does that flatten all the way down, or just once?
<japhb> Does that flatten all the way down, or just once?
<japhb> Gah
<lianj> flatten(level)
<japhb> Oh, interesting
<tsou> (all the way down if level's missing)
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<japhb> Yeah, I checked the docs after lianj++ mentioned the optional arg. :-)
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<japhb> tsou++ # Thank you for all the help
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<reactormonk> japhb: ++ doesn't exist in ruby, as integers are immutable
<erikh> that's not the limitation, as has been argued on r-t numerous times
<erikh> it's a design decision.
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<tsou> japhb: you're welcome
<zenspider> what'd I miss?
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<matti> zenspider: ;]
<erikh> zenspider: did you know ++ doesn't exist in ruby?
<matti> zenspider: [22:04:39] < rue> OMG no zenspider
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<matti> erikh: IT DOES NOT?!
<matti> :<
<erikh> you can't make awesome star wars ascii art in your code with ++v++
<zenspider> erikh: omg!
<japhb> reactormonk, ++ does exist in most karma bots, and I admit I did not check if there actually was a karma bot here. I trust my intent was clear. ;-)
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<matti> japhb: We do it like this: zenspider.karma += 1
<matti> ;p
<erikh> there's no karma bot in here that I know of
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<japhb> matti, duly noted, thanks!
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<matti> japhb: I was joking ;p
<japhb> matti.karma += 1 # Useful tip instead of (cough) pedantry. ;-)
<japhb> matti, works for me either way.
<matti> ;D
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<masterkorp> Guys do you recomend any Asynchronous IO library ?
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<drbrain> masterkorp: read_nonblock?
<masterkorp> lol
<erikh> for loop with backgrounded copies of nc
<erikh> ooh! and tcl expect
<drbrain> masterkorp: IO.select, then
<erikh> it's event-driven!
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