apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.0.0-p0: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p392) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<creese> I can't install ree-1.8.7 on Ubuntu 12.04. It is the same situation described here: http://pastebin.com/E5P3yLM4
<havenwood> creese: Do you *really, really* need to use 1.8.7?
<havenwood> creese: It was deprecated due to its advancements being fully replaced by 1.9. 2.0 is a better choice yet. :D
<creese> well, I'm doing work for a client that uses 1.8.7 and I haven't been able to get rails server to start on my dev box so I'm trying to reproduce their setup as closely as a I can
<creese> it may not matter, but I don't know what is keeping me from starting the server
<havenwood> creese: Gotcha. (If you haven't already, be sure to remind client that 1.8's End-of-Life is coming fast, June.
<havenwood> )
<havenwood> creese: No more security updates, so pretty important to update.
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<creese> hmm
<creese> well I can't get to to compile so about ready to give up
<havenwood> creese: Could try RVM to get it working, but I'd prolly just test in vanilla 1.8.7 and beg them to update. :P
<creese> the problem isn't rbenv, if I dl the tarball, I still won't be able to compile
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<creese> it requires a package that is deprecated and the new one doesn't work
<creese> when you say "vanilla" you mean non enterprise?
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<havenwood> ya
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<creese> that worked
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<havenwood> creese: Should be good enough for specs/tests as long as you aren't doing profiling stuff, i'd imagine.
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<creese> do older versions of rails get security updates or do you get the updates by moving to the newest version of rails?
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<freedrull> depends how old
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<hakunin> I'm in irb, and I have a string that contains some binary data. I want to turn this data into a literal, assign to a constant, but I'm not sure how to get a valid ruby literal from this binary string. What would be proper way?
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<eam> hakunin: what do you mean literal?
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<hakunin> eam: literal binary data
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<hakunin> i guess binary string
<hakunin> cause i need to concatenate it to a string
<hakunin> (another binary string)
<eam> if you want to concatenate two strings, try +
<hakunin> :)
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<hakunin> eam: i'm trying to write a binary string literal in a ruby file, should i just write something like this STR = "\x00\x00\x00\tpHYs\x00\x00.#\x00\x00.#\x01x\xA5?v"
<hakunin> eam: that doesn't even seem right, the way it's displayed in irb
<eam> it looks ok to me, I guess I don't understand what's wrong
<eam> the \x00 is a way to escape a null character
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<RickHull> hakunin: a string is a string. are you comfortable with encodings?
<RickHull> i myself live more in the 1.8 world where all strings are binary/ascii8bit
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<RickHull> if you have a binary value inside a string, it's a string
<RickHull> you can assign it a variable or a constant. it's still a string
<RickHull> there's nothing tricky about it
<RickHull> unless you want to talk about encodings
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<RickHull> what's a way to monitor a file, e.g. doing a blocking read on something like gets
<RickHull> i.e. take an action when a new line is written to the logfile
<RickHull> right now, gets returns nil on EOF, whereas i would prefer it to block
<RickHull> readpartial says it will block on no data... hmm
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<hakunin> RickHull: oh hey
<RickHull> hakunin: binary strings are generally not problematic. are you getting the value from outside your program, like hardcoding into a string literal?
<hakunin> RickHull: eam: i think you guys underestimate my question a little (my poor explanation). I have some binary data I just generated in irb session, and I want to copy it from the terminal into a text editor to assign it to a ruby constant
<RickHull> best way to c/p binary is in hex format
<RickHull> dump the binary to hexadecimal
<RickHull> copy
<RickHull> paste
<RickHull> convert the hex back to binary
<hakunin> RickHull: how would you do that last part? how would it even show up as a literal?
<RickHull> pack and unpack will do that with the right incantation
<hakunin> RickHull: pack is the source of that data in irb, but i want to freeze it in packed form
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<eam> hakunin: you should probably encode it in something simple like base64
<eam> if you are going to be doing a lot of this
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<RickHull> yeah base64 is equivalent but more compact
<RickHull> hex is easier to read by "hand"
<hakunin> if i store base64 in constant i'd have to do decode every time i read it
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<RickHull> you can store binary in a constant
<eam> RickHull: you want to implement tail -f?
<hakunin> basically i just want a bunch of bytes in a constant
<RickHull> eam basically
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<hakunin> i need literal representation of bytes of data
<RickHull> hakuninn, imagine str = "\x00"
<RickHull> str now holds the null byte
<eam> RickHull: stat the file, when it gets bigger, read again
<eam> sleep in between
<RickHull> you can assign that value to a constant or whatever
<RickHull> eam ew
<RickHull> i don't want to sleep / poll
<eam> RickHull: eh that's the mechanism unix offers you
<hakunin> RickHull: hm, ok just need to convert it from the way it's represented in irb somehow then
<RickHull> i just want to read and block until there is data
<hakunin> RickHull: ionotify type of thing? must it be os-independent?
<RickHull> frankly i don't think inotify is appropriate either
<RickHull> i can block on a socket read. i.e. read(1)
<eam> that's because a socket is a stream
<RickHull> but on a file there is that pesky EOF and read exits / blows up
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<eam> RickHull: you can use a fifo
<eam> but the semantics of plain files are that they have ends
<RickHull> that's fine except apache keeps appending to it
<RickHull> so the end is quite fictional
<eam> well, not entirely
<RickHull> i would like to read until there is a newline available
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<RickHull> what's the fifo story?
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<hakunin> RickHull: why not actually open a pipe to tail -f stdout?
<RickHull> assume i'm trying to read the next line that comes into apache access.log
<RickHull> hakunin: not sure i follow
<RickHull> i want ruby to read on the io, and give me a line when there's one avilable
<RickHull> and then i want ruby to process that line
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<eam> RickHull: mkfifo /tmp/myfifo; echo hello world > /tmp/myfifo # blocks ; in another terminal cat /tmp/myfifo
<hakunin> RickHull: spawn a tail -f on the file via popen to read from its stdout
<eam> RickHull: if you'd like socket semantics from a named file
<eam> tail -f will stat and poll
<RickHull> so it just does the dirty work?
<hakunin> did not know about tail -f implementation
<RickHull> i don't mind outsourcing the dirty work
<eam> you can use abstraction to do the messy stuff or you, but that's how it's gotta happen
<RickHull> but i'd rather do it more cleanly, fifo sounds interesting
<eam> RickHull: essentially a named |
<RickHull> the other way i guess is to literally pipe the log file?
<RickHull> i'd like to have the option of passing the filename so i can seek to the end
<eam> yeah, apache has a popen'd logger function
<RickHull> rather than potentially reprocessing a massive file
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<RickHull> it just seems to me that there should be a way to open a file for reading and block until i get a newline
<RickHull> er
<RickHull> open a file for reading, seek to the end, and block until i get a newline, reeturning the new data
<eam> there is if you use someone else's code to do it, but at at system level the readline function doesn't exist
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<RickHull> is that what "readline" does?
<eam> yeah
<RickHull> interesting
<RickHull> so i could install the readline package right?
<RickHull> now what?
<hakunin> RickHull: the easiest to me seem either popen to tail or redirect log stream in the logging app if you have control over that, but eam knows all these fun things, and generally seems awesome
<RickHull> hakunin: yeah i agree somewhat
<RickHull> but i'm thinking it's more decoupled to just pass the filename to the processor
<RickHull> processor seeks to end and blocks until data
<eam> RickHull: I meant IO.readline
<RickHull> it raises EOFError
<RickHull> i want it to block
<eam> you can't get that, you'll have to write your own class which handles it and produces an IO.readline-like interface (or find a gem which has done so)
<RickHull> :why:
<eam> unix doesn't provide a way to block on reaching EOF
<RickHull> ok
<hakunin> RickHull: this is how it's the most straightforward way: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1293695/watch-read-a-growing-log-file-with-ruby
<hakunin> but it doesn't blcok, it runs up to 100%
<hakunin> cpu
<RickHull> i'll just poll every second
<hakunin> (wtf is with my typing)
<RickHull> next if file.eof?
<RickHull> i was really hoping to avoid such filthiness
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<eam> you'll really be best off popen()ing tail -F like hakunin suggested if you want something simple
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<RickHull> yeah... polling works. ugh
<RickHull> thanks xdD
<RickHull> xD
<RickHull> eam: curious, how do you know that "unix doesn't provide a way to block on reaching EOF" ?
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<hakunin> crazy night today, managed to patch a png stream on the fly, and nobody to talk to about it :(
<RickHull> eam: i don't doubt it at all. but i don't have that insight. where is it documented or inferred from ?
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<eam> RickHull: I'm pretty familiar with it
<RickHull> ok, let's say i don't believe you
<RickHull> how would you convince me?
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<eam> read(2)?
<RickHull> sure
<RickHull> i don't mean to make you jump through hoops
<RickHull> reading...
<eam> no worries, I appreciate curiosity
<RickHull> don't you agree that the way i would like to operate is useful
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<RickHull> ?
<RickHull> not whining, just curious if i'm on the wrong track
<hakunin> i'm surprised select doesn't block
<RickHull> oh select might work here, hm
<eam> yes, it's just not something that fits the model. The idea of "blocking until more data is written" well, perhaps the data won't be written past the end of the file?
<RickHull> yeah i get that perspective, but it's rather constrictive
<RickHull> esp given the nature of logfiles
<eam> or perhaps the file is O_APPEND but is truncated
<RickHull> i think select is the "answer"
<hakunin> it's actually a good point, if you received an EOF character, wouldn't it be logically inconsistent to keep pushing data? what is it "foobarEOFbazEOF" what kind of EOF is that, NOT AN EOF AT ALL
<RickHull> it's an EOF at this particular moment
<RickHull> i'm ok with that
<eam> there isn't an EOF character, at the system level
<hakunin> eam: i didn't mean character
<hakunin> i just said it
<hakunin> for some reason
<RickHull> it was illustrative
<RickHull> if not totally accurate
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<eam> sorry, I wasn't sure if you were referring to the ascii value of EOF
<RickHull> i think it's useful to know that you're banging against the end of the pipe
<RickHull> but you should be able to, protocol wise, wait until the pipe gets longer or the end opens up
<RickHull> (choose your metaphor, heh)
<hakunin> i said that i'm surprised select won't work because of this: "select always returns immediately when used on a file stream: You can always read EOF from that file stream, so your ruby process ends up spinning while it waits for the file to update."
<RickHull> oh ok
<RickHull> yeah i read that bit too
<RickHull> that's why i abaondoned select i think
<RickHull> as much as i hate polling
<RickHull> spinning is far far worse
<eam> you can use notify style triggers (system specific) to see if a file has been interacted with
<eam> but that's about it
<RickHull> yeah
<RickHull> i've done taht before
<hakunin> you know perhaps you could poll only after EOF
<hakunin> to avoid spinning
<RickHull> it just seems kludgey
<RickHull> i'd just rather block, oh well
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<RickHull> i'm actually surprised to find out that i can't, because unix
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<eam> it's one of those things
<RickHull> yeah
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<RickHull> i'm all about constraints
<hakunin> it almost feels like security issue
<RickHull> and i bet this is a useful one in many regards
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<hakunin> you reach a certain location on disk, it says "do not read further", and closes the stream to make sure you don't. if file changes, the understanding of "further" updates, so you are allowed then, but not while streaming blindly. I am totally making this up.
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<postmodern> if a gem needs to download some data, where should i store the data?
<postmodern> in .local/share/ or in .gem/ somewhere?
<apeiros_> postmodern: I used ~/.gem/gemname in the past
<apeiros_> if you find a better answer, please tell me
<lianj> dirname(dirname(`gem which name`) ?`
<apeiros_> ew @ shellout
<apeiros_> ah, for the initial data I used Gem.datadir
<lianj> apeiros_: eh @ ~/
<postmodern> Gem.datadir is deprecated i believe
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<apeiros_> wah?
<apeiros_> ping drbrain - true? ^
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<apeiros_> ah, ok, not the concept is deprecated, just where to get the info from
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<postmodern> yeah not sure whats replacing it
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<apeiros_> well, given that it already just is `File.join spec.full_gem_path, "data", gem_name`
<apeiros_> I'd suspect it'll just be `spec.data_dir`
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<apeiros_> but IMO then there should be a Gem::specification method
<postmodern> i tend to treat the data/ as for data that ships with the gem
<apeiros_> so you can do: Gem.specification(gemname).data_dir
<postmodern> also the user might not have write access to data/
<apeiros_> postmodern: correct
<apeiros_> so the initial set of data is there. it is not modified.
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<apeiros_> you might copy it to (wherever you put the user data) in case no userdata is there yet
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<apeiros_> =( Class does not inherit module_function
<apeiros_> (yes, it's a bit smelly, but I wouldn't have minded the smell for this)
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<judofyr> "TypeError: module_function must be called for modules" :(
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<apeiros_> yeah, silly rebinding limitations
<apeiros_> other than native objects & methods, I see no reason why an arbitrary method shouldn't be able to bind to an arbitrary object
<judofyr> doesn't 2.0 has method transplanting from modules?
<apeiros_> Module#frankenstein ?
<apeiros_> no idea. still haven't spent time with 2.0. probably won't until mid-year.
<apeiros_> but I plan to push 2.0 adoption here after 2.0 has been in the wild for ~3-6 months
<judofyr> apeiros_: class Foo; def each; yield 1; yield 2; end; Enumerable.instance_method(:first).bind(Foo.new).call # => 1
<apeiros_> oooooh
<apeiros_> niiiiice
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<yorickpeterse> morning
<judofyr> morning!
<injekt> moin
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<judofyr> it's a terrible song
<postmodern> judofyr, terribly awesome
<yorickpeterse> wat
<charliesome> howdy
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<yorickpeterse> charliesome: regarding the compiler, that's more or less what I'm doing, yes
<yorickpeterse> Though I've already sort of wrote a VM in disguise
<charliesome> yorickpeterse: doing your own language or what
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<yorickpeterse> No, it's for my Ruby linter
<yorickpeterse> You can do only a limited form of analysis using the raw AST
<charliesome> oh awesome
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<yorickpeterse> Right now I have a basic "execution" system but it's a mess
<charliesome> did you accidentally implement ruby
<yorickpeterse> and it's limited. For example, return values are not taken into account
<yorickpeterse> Which is what I hope to address with this new setup
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<yorickpeterse> and yes, on a basic level I'll be implementing Ruby
<yorickpeterse> Maybe I can make it pass Rubyspec for shits and giggles
<charliesome> haha golfing rubyspec would be fun
<charliesome> shortest code that passes
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<judofyr> charliesome: I kinda did it here: https://github.com/topazproject/topaz/pull/411 (see timfel's comments)
<charliesome> what's Undefined
<charliesome> a special constant?
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<charliesome> like a sentinal value or something
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<judofyr> charliesome: Undefined = Object.new
<charliesome> ah
<judofyr> charliesome: it's on the top if you click "Files Changed"
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<charliesome> i was thinking of writing a gem that lets you get the AST of a block/method
<charliesome> using 2.0's new RVM::IS.of api
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<andrewvos> 2.0 has the word RVM in its source?
<yorickpeterse> zoommgg
<yorickpeterse> does it override cd?
<andrewvos> haha
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<judofyr> charliesome: I like it
<charliesome> andrewvos: shorthand for RubyVM
<charliesome> god InstructionSequence#to_a is arcane as hell
<andrewvos> oh
<judofyr> charliesome: I wanted to create a common AST format
<charliesome> common between what
<charliesome> different impls?
<judofyr> charliesome: and write converters from e.g. RubyParser, Ripper, RVM to it
<charliesome> ah yeah cool
<yorickpeterse> judofyr: hey guess what I've been doing for the past year
<judofyr> charliesome: and JRuby's internal parser
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: you have?
<yorickpeterse> though it for now only works using Ripper
<yorickpeterse> I've been meaning to actually do that for ages, I just haven't gotten to it yet
<yorickpeterse> For now it only converts Ripper's AST to something a bit more sane
<judofyr> whitequark: also, does your Ruby implementation run Rails soon?
<yorickpeterse> Though it has it's own quirks
<yorickpeterse> * its
<yorickpeterse> Once I have my instruction set in place my life is going to be so much easier as I can more easily swap parsers
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: looks good
<yorickpeterse> it works around most of the issues with Ripper's output as well as making it a bit easier to deal with multiple assignments
<yorickpeterse> (it's clever enough to know which values go where)
<charliesome> holy shit the yarv bytecode generated by '/(?<a>.*)/ =~ "abc"' is quite amazing
<charliesome> http://eval.in/11919
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<judofyr> wait, I thought that wasn't supposed to create a MatchData object?
<charliesome> yeah of course it does
<yorickpeterse> http://eval.in/11921 heh, one of the cases where the AST is somewhat sane
<charliesome> judofyr you mean you expected mri to be efficient?
<judofyr> charliesome: trolololol
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<yorickpeterse> http://eval.in/11923 this is one of the things that annoy me of Ripper, though it makes perfect sense as to why it does that
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: the Ripper AST isn't really an AST though. it's more like "random stuff that happens if you use a silly default function to the callbacks"
<charliesome> ripper gives shit output
<charliesome> yorickpeterse: imagine if you could ruby-lint over real legit methods
<yorickpeterse> The output is really, really specific to the needs of MRI
<yorickpeterse> charliesome: hint: it can
<yorickpeterse> in a limited way though
<charliesome> how?
<charliesome> o
<charliesome> when/if i actually do this iseq -> ast thing you can!
<yorickpeterse> To solve the problem of C code and such I import stuff from the runtime
<yorickpeterse> That at least gives me info on parameters and such
<yorickpeterse> I've been thinking of abusing #source_location to extract the actual code but haven't gotten to it yet
<yorickpeterse> Also because that won't work for C code
<charliesome> imagine the amazing ORMs you could do if you could decompile a block's bytecode to an ast
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<yorickpeterse> Either that's very hard or next to impossible
<charliesome> yorickpeterse: hm?
<yorickpeterse> Because an AST isn't a 1:1 mapping of the bytecode
<charliesome> decompiling bytecode to an ast?
<charliesome> it's entirely possible
<charliesome> the bytecode is super high level
<yorickpeterse> You can do it, but it will be something that looks different than the original AST
<charliesome> not in mri he he he
<dbussink> yorickpeterse: did you guys check out how the mutant gem does it?
<yorickpeterse> mutant?
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<charliesome> well some ultra high level things like regex local var stuff comes out differently
<dbussink> it basically uses the rubinius parser wrapper into a gem
<charliesome> but you end up getting a simpler AST
<dbussink> and uses that ast to transform stuff
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<yorickpeterse> dbussink: you mean the melbourne Gem?
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<dbussink> yorickpeterse: https://github.com/mbj/mutant
<dbussink> yorickpeterse: it uses the mutant-melbourne gem
<yorickpeterse> Hm, I recall melbourne doesn't store column numbers
<yorickpeterse> hence I couldn't use it
<yorickpeterse> Same goes with basically every other parser out there
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<dbussink> yorickpeterse: ah, well, would be nice to add perhaps then :)
<dbussink> what are you using columns for?
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<yorickpeterse> They're pretty crucial for adding notifications :)
<yorickpeterse> "Undefined variable on line 205" isn't very helpful if that line has a lot of stuff on it
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<dbussink> ruby has gotten away with it for a long time already :P
<yorickpeterse> Ripper is annoying but at least it allows me to say "Undefined variable on line 205, column 5" without having to use regular expressions to figure the column out myself
<yorickpeterse> Somewhere in the back of my head I want to extract these bits into a more generic "Ruby compiler" toolkit
<yorickpeterse> though that won't happen for at least another year
<yorickpeterse> Then hopefully one day people stop writing parsers in regular expressions and just use that to save them 80% of the work
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<dbussink> yorickpeterse: it shouldn't be that hard with what for example melbourne provides and add things like comments and column numbers
<dbussink> although you have to muck with parse.y from mri, but it'll be as compatible as you'll get
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<yorickpeterse> dbussink: I talked with brixen about Melbourne and he mentioned they are rewriting it
<yorickpeterse> So for the time being I'll stick with Ripper
<dbussink> it's going to be split up in 1.8, 1.9 and 2.0 gems
<yorickpeterse> However, the moment somethings comes along that works on the different platforms and is somewhat sane I'll use it
<yorickpeterse> Yeah
<dbussink> that's also why there is mutant-melbourne atm, so they can continue with that
<charliesome> yorickpeterse: are they keeping the name melbourne?
<charliesome> i'm quite attached to that name personally
<dbussink> it's been called melbourne for quite some time already
<yorickpeterse> charliesome: as far as I know, yes
<yorickpeterse> also move to a real country
<charliesome> oi
<charliesome> easy mate
<yorickpeterse> I'll smash ya
<charliesome> you're dead
<yorickpeterse> haha
<judofyr> maybe I should write an Oslo gem
<judofyr> doesn't sound so catchy though
<charliesome> judofyr: ruby already has all the functionality
<yorickpeterse> gem install hup-holland-hup
<charliesome> #freeze and #frozen?
<dbussink> yorickpeterse: that turns all console output into an orange font right?
<charliesome> judofyr: too small for my hand
<charliesome> try again
<judofyr> charliesome: Cmd++
<yorickpeterse> dbussink: yeah and prints an ascii image of the queen/king
<judofyr> charliesome: oh, btw, I now have a new video to show people when they ask where I'm from: charliesome: oh, btw, I know have a new
<judofyr> err
<judofyr> copy-paste is hard
<judofyr> that was confusing
<judofyr> charliesome: oh, btw, I now have a new video to show people when they ask where I'm from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF1V8HFfpTE
<judofyr> there
<charliesome> second time lucky
<judofyr> (it starts slow, but escalates nicely)
<yorickpeterse> judofyr: you're from a frozen lake?
<charliesome> hahaha is that a vodka bottle
<judofyr> yes
<charliesome> that man is crazy
<charliesome> LOL
<charliesome> jesus
<charliesome> hahahaha what the fuck
<charliesome> i don't even
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<yorickpeterse> So TIL that Date.new takes negative values
<charliesome> this is my video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp6J6PF47CM
<yorickpeterse> Date.new(2012, 1, -1) => 2012-01-31
<yorickpeterse> Now, is there some shorthand for doing `Date.new(...).to_time.utc`?
<charliesome> judofyr: or this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOOA2ZhBIQY
<yorickpeterse> charliesome: hahaha
<yorickpeterse> "This is the loosest shit right here, look, dead kid!" haha
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<judofyr> charliesome: maybe I should go to Australia some time
<charliesome> yeah deffo
<charliesome> come for railscamp
<charliesome> stay for the weather
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<judofyr> does "railscamp" have anything to do with Rails? :P
<charliesome> it less more to do with heavy drinking, openttd, werewolf, and stupid drunk tricks
<charliesome> s/less/has/
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<judofyr> good
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<judofyr> that reminds me that I should finish my little 'framework
<manveru> charliesome: openttd as in open transport tycoon deluxe?
<charliesome> manveru: yes
<manveru> neat :)
<judofyr> are there other openttds?
<manveru> no idea
<manveru> tried playing it online once, ppl are just too good
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<charliesome> openttd is very greifable online
<charliesome> griefable*
<charliesome> bloody os x spell checj
<charliesome> check
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<judofyr> spell checj
<charliesome> ja
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<judofyr> you're learning norwegian?
<charliesome> nu
<charliesome> ja is used by a lot of european languages
<judofyr> true, "nu" though?
<charliesome> dunno, i'm just bsing
<judofyr> "nu" is new, fresh in swedish, danish ;)
<judofyr> hm. I completely forgot about Lojban
<judofyr> tried to learn it some while ago
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<yorickpeterse> judofyr: Oh you mean that super secret forever thing
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: yes!
<yorickpeterse> What was it called again, zo...oh sssh
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<yorickpeterse> :>
<judofyr> so super secret that I will show it to anyone that asks!
<charliesome> judofyr: are you going to start railscamps for your thing
<judofyr> charliesome: haha. maybe ;)
<charliesome> betterthanrailscamp
<judofyr> charliesome: up in the mountains here in Norway
<judofyr> with mjød
<judofyr> do they make that anymore?
<charliesome> what's mjod
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<charliesome> jeg vet ikke!
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<judofyr> o_O
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<charliesome> hø hø hø
<charliesome> night
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<chekcmate> monrin
<chekcmate> monrnin
<chekcmate> morning
<judofyr> chekcmate: getting closer now!
<chekcmate> what are class instance variables good for, judofyr ?
<judofyr> chekcmate: class variables or instance variables in classes?
<chekcmate> i get an example
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<chekcmate> in the book it states "they aren't very useful"
<judofyr> chekcmate: oh, they are very useful :)
<judofyr> chekcmate: you just need to define methods for them
<chekcmate> for what??
<chekcmate> ..?
<judofyr> chekcmate: class-level variables
<judofyr> chekcmate: def self.mappings; @mappings ||= {} end
<chekcmate> but I can't access them in the methods
<judofyr> a = self.class.mappings["hello"]
<chekcmate> i dont quite get it
<chekcmate> do you have an example for a typical use case?
<judofyr> chekcmate: look at the link above. Tilt stores the mapping in the class (because it's a global setting)
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<chekcmate> ah, it took ages to load
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<chekcmate> judofyr: so its only accessible with self, being a class attribute?
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<judofyr> chekcmate: yes. it's only available when "self" is the class
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<chekcmate> ahhh, alright... didnt make any sense to me when I looked at it
<chekcmate> thanks a lot
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<judofyr> chekcmate: so you'll have to define a method for it. but then you can use self.class.<method_name> to get access to it
<chekcmate> judofyr: is there a difference to that and @@vars?
<judofyr> (in an instance of the class)
<judofyr> chekcmate: class variables inherit
<judofyr> chekcmate: which is rather funky
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<judofyr> chekcmate: class Foo; @@width = 1; end; class Bar < Foo; @@width = 2; end; class Foo; p @@width end
<judofyr> chekcmate: that last one returns 2
<judofyr> chekcmate: because it's the "same" variable
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<judofyr> chekcmate: while instance variables don't inherit at all, so you'll have to implement it yourself if you want it
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<chekcmate> ahaa!
<chekcmate> yea... the book was really confusing with this
<judofyr> chekcmate: class Foo; @@hello = 1 end; class Object; @@hello = 2; end; class Foo; p @@hello; end # => 2;
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<chekcmate> judofyr: is this because you change it in "Object"?
<chekcmate> or was the name rather random?
<judofyr> nope
<judofyr> it was not random
<chekcmate> ah ok
<judofyr> it's because Foo is a subclass of Object
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<chekcmate> thanks judofyr :)
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<judofyr> chekcmate: :)
<whitequark> judofyr: never
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<chekcmate> judofyr: getting 1 instead of 2 (version difference?): http://pastie.org/6403946
<judofyr> I get 2 in 1.9.3
<chekcmate> ._.
<chekcmate> we're still on 1.8.7 here... currently switching though
<judofyr> chekcmate: another reason why class variables are messy (different behavior in 1.8 and 1.9)!
<chekcmate> lol
<chekcmate> wait, I recheck...
<chekcmate> judofyr: getting your answer with this example: http://pastie.org/6403956
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<judofyr> chekcmate: well, yeah, I'm not even going to try to figure out how they work in 1.8 :O
<judofyr> :P *
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<yorickpeterse> thou shall not useth instance variables
<yorickpeterse> errr
<yorickpeterse> class variables
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<chekcmate> judofyr: :-*
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<zzak> good morning!
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<rue|w> It’s evening, you dummy
<zzak> i am dum :(
<Weems> in Asia at least
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<zzak> rue|w: is in write mode
<zzak> zzak: is in dummy mode :(
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<zzak> total-knowledge.com is blocked :(
<zzak> i must be too dum
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<zzak> what is this groundhogs day?
<judofyr> zzak? Hey, zzak? zzak? zzak! zzak O'Conners? zzak O'Conners, I thought that was you!
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<zzak> :D
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<judofyr> BING!
<zzak> judofyr: whats next for tilt? camping support?
<judofyr> zzak: :D
<judofyr> zzak: well, I have a 1.3.5 bug fix release pending
<judofyr> zzak: and 1.4 is encodings
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<zzak> judofyr: awesome
<zzak> judofyr: keep up the good work!
<zzak> judofyr: one of the burlington ruby conf organizers is a huge fan of camping and shoes, you should come give a talk on camping or whatever! http://burlingtonruby.com/
<judofyr> zzak: /me actually looks up Vermont on the map
<judofyr> so *that's* where it us
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<zzak> its there
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<judofyr> is*
<judofyr> zzak: is it nice?
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<judofyr> zzak: in august?
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<zzak> beautiful
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<judofyr> "Your subscription to our list has been confirmed."
<zzak> :D
<judofyr> maybe maybe
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<judofyr> zzak: so, what are you up to these days?
<zzak> judofyr: much of the same
<banisterfiend> zzak: btw did u document the new __callee__ vs __method__ behaviours?
<judofyr> banisterfiend: I was actually wondering about that recently…
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<judofyr> didn't knew about __callee__
<banisterfiend> it's very cool, i've been wanting this for a while
<judofyr> banisterfiend: what do you want to use it for?
<zzak> banisterfiend: someone had but im not sure they did it right
<zzak> rb_f_callee_name and rb_f_method_name
<banisterfiend> judofyr: use it in pry to get the right method object. basically if someone gives us a Binding we want to find the method captured by that binding, you can generally use __method__ and then method(__method__) to get the Method object, but that breaks down in cases the method has been renamed
<zzak> judofyr: i am working my way through k&r now
<judofyr> zzak: cool. how is it?
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<banisterfiend> judofyr: we can still find it by scanning the method table and looking for a method of the same source_location etc, but it's nicer if we can just call method(__callee__)
<judofyr> banisterfiend: won't the method object be the same?
<zzak> judofyr: very good, but confusing. i worked through the intro chapter and going back and doing the exercises now
<judofyr> banisterfiend: or do you want to show the right method name?
<zzak> dont like how they reference "the old way", before ansi, so much but youll have that with a 20 year old book
<banisterfiend> judofyr: i'm thinking of this situation: class Hello; def hello; binding; end; alias_method :old_hello, :hello; def hello; "blah "blah; end; end
<judofyr> banisterfiend: ah, right
<judofyr> banisterfiend: I guess this occurs in alias_method_chain?
<banisterfiend> judofyr: exactly :( so it's too common for us to ignore
<judofyr> banisterfiend: has anyone integrated Pry with Rack?
<judofyr> banisterfiend: I know about charliesome's better_errors, but that's just caller_of_binding, right?
<banisterfiend> judofyr: there's this: https://rubygems.org/gems/rack-webconsole-pry
<banisterfiend> judofyr: charliesome's thing does support pry too, but it's undocumented i think
<judofyr> ah
<banisterfiend> and u have to explicitly enable it
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<judofyr> ok
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<whitequark> zzak: y u learn c?
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<zzak> whitequark: i suck at it
<banisterfiend> i'm glad i went from C -> Ruby, going the other way would be hell
<whitequark> zzak: hrm. k&r doesn't sound like the best introductory book
<whitequark> i bet wikibooks have something way better
<zzak> i like it so far
<whitequark> zzak: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/C_Programming . I wouldn't recommend it straight away, but maybe it's worth checking out
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<zzak> whitequark: awesome thanks, i prefer deadtree books for some reason
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<whitequark> k&r is old enough to be fossilized :D
<zzak> petrefied
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<whitequark> oh right
<apeiros_> what does the cooper say? "he was peterfied!" (petrified ;-p)
<whitequark> apeiros_: I didn't get that
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<apeiros_> no worries. it's lame anyway.
<zzak> lol
<apeiros_> zzak wrote "petre-fied", I read it as "peter-fied", and the cooper is from peter cooper. no, it doesn't make much sense :)
<whitequark> oh :D
* whitequark has just realized that fossilized and petrified correspond to same adjective in russian
<whitequark> or maybe that's participle
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<mehwork> i know ruby doesn't have a ++ operator but how come in pry> when i do i = 10 then do i++ i now says 20, but only the first time i type i, then it goes back to 10?
<mehwork> it seems to double any number temporarily
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<whitequark> mehwork: it's parsed as i.+(+i)
<apeiros_> mehwork: you can see that it's continuation prompt
<apeiros_> well, at least in my config, I can see
<apeiros_> [4] pry(main)> i++
<apeiros_> [4] pry(main)* i
<apeiros_> the * means "continued expression"
<apeiros_> and then what whitequark says - the thing becomes i++i, which is i.+(i.+@())
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<whitequark> +@ is an unary plus
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<darix> mehwork: i+=1
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<mehwork> practice = p "Thanks #{whitequark} #{aperios_}"; puts "Sorry, I just need all the practice I can get right now. Which is why I said #{pracrtice}"
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<mehwork> undefined local variable pracrtice :(
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<darix> mehwork: also the return value of "p" is not really interesting. ;)
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<mehwork> practice = "Thanks #{whitequark} #{aperios_}"; puts "#{practice}. Sorry, I just need all the practice I can get right now."
<mehwork> practice += ' darix'
<apeiros_> and now I'm an aperios :-p
* mehwork gives whole new meaning to pryrc
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<darix> apeiros_: better than being an inkjet!
<darix> ^^
<apeiros_> or fried judo
<darix> i wonder if he has the hilight configured for it by now ;)
<apeiros_> judofry, have you a highlight on fried judo?
<apeiros_> *do you have
<apeiros_> blehnglish
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<whitequark> inkjet
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<mehwork> i still don't get what the . operator does in this context. e.g., pry> i = 10 pry> i . pry* i => (0+10i)
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<banisterfiend> mehwork: your pry prompt is pretty feeble ;)
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<whitequark> mehwork: 10.i ?
<mehwork> irb does the same thing
<mehwork> ah thanks whitequark
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<mehwork> why do dynamic languages like ruby have to return something rather than nothing from methods? I.e., why couldn't ruby be designed to return void from its methods?
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<apeiros_> mehwork: and the difference between void and nil being?
<apeiros_> ruby is designed this way to make coding in it convenient/comfortable
<mehwork> nil.class # => NilClass. but void wouldn't belong to anything and in C is illegal to try to evaluate against
<bougyman> ruby isn't C
<mehwork> i know i'm just curious on a theoretical level if it would be possible
<bougyman> no. methods return their last evaluated statement
<mehwork> becaues the articles i read just say "ruby and dynamic languages like it, _have_ to return something, which is why they return nil"
<mehwork> bougyman: ok, that makes sense then
<bougyman> and even an empty method will return nil
<bougyman> def foo;end; foo => nil
<apeiros_> mehwork: such a "value" would make no conceptional sense in ruby. the absence of a value is represented by nil already.
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<mehwork> right, i'm just more curious as to if it's possible to create such a non value in a non statically typed language
<apeiros_> mehwork: javascript has undefined
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<apeiros_> but javascript has non-object primitives
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<zastern> Is there something wrong about this approach? https://gist.github.com/zacharyalexstern/5102335 - it never prints REDACTED no matter what words I use
<whitequark> zastern: please, notify both channels if you cross-post
<zastern> Ok.
<apeiros_> +1
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<zastern> oh i figured it out
<zastern> i need AND not OR
<zastern> i think
<zastern> wait. maybe not. ha
<zastern> yes figured it out!
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<manveru> ruby -e 'trap :INT, :exit; "/\\-".each_char.cycle{|c| sleep 0.1; print "\r", c }'
<manveru> anybody wanna golf that?
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<injekt> did someone ping me?
<injekt> oh.. inkjet.. assholes
<apeiros_> lol
<injekt> yes my client does hilight those
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<andrewvos> haha
<andrewvos> enjoy the few hours of sun injekt?
<injekt> andrewvos: totally
<injekt> I baked for like an hour
<andrewvos> I had a day off so I lay in Hyde Park
<injekt> nice
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<andrewvos> Regent street was closed off so I was cycling around there like I owned the place. Such a good day.
<injekt> :D
* andrewvos stares off into the distance and sheds a single tear
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<andrewvos> injekt: Do you like English Mustard?
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<injekt> andrewvos: meh, it's ok
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<torrieri> vayan a dormir
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<andrewvos> Quite.
<injekt> yorgunum değil
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<andrewvos> es muy temprano
<injekt> lol
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<andrewvos> Have I missed any ruby drama?
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<injekt> there is always ruby drama
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<injekt> why not?
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<andrewvos> Well, json is included in ruby?
<apeiros_> stdlib, since 1.9, yes
<andrewvos> Okay. So I'm guessing that's for < 1.8 then
<injekt> yeah, cukes is loading 1.7 json gem when using an older version of ruby
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<andrewvos> Oh okay
<andrewvos> Fair enough
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<manveru> can't wait for the day when ppl finally get rid of all the json gems :P
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<apeiros_> probably won't anytime soon
<apeiros_> I e.g. use Oj for its speed
<yorickpeterse> but does it blend?
<injekt> didn't even know about Oj
<yorickpeterse> Also, all those JSON gems lack one crucial feature found in YAML
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<apeiros_> evaluation of xml?
<apeiros_> as code!
<injekt> rails uses stdlib json, but uses yajl if it's available :D
<yorickpeterse> arbitrary code execution, but that works too
<yorickpeterse> what the hell, there's no "cats" Gem?
<injekt> ...
<injekt> no
<yorickpeterse> I am disappoint
<yorickpeterse> there's "balls" though, which doesn't surprise me
<Paradox> i'm having trouble installing gems today
<Paradox> keep getting "Unable to download data from https://rubygems.org/ - SSL_connect returned=1 errno=0 state=SSLv3 read server certificate B: certificate verify failed (https://rubygems.org/latest_specs.4.8.gz)" error
<Paradox> im guessing its my system being mad at sql
<Paradox> erm
<Paradox> ssl
<Paradox> but before i dove in i wanted to know if anyone else has experienced it today, and came up with a fix to save me some time
<andrewvos> Paradox: Are you using some sort of company proxy?
<Paradox> no
<Paradox> im at university though
<andrewvos> Oh…
<Paradox> but i've been installing gems fine all year
<Paradox> let me try it with my torrenting vpn
<apeiros_> yorickpeterse: we have rainbows and unicorns, what the frack do you want with lousy cats?
<Paradox> nope
<Paradox> still fails under vpn
<yorickpeterse> apeiros_: install them
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<Paradox> sigh
<Paradox> guess i'll try to disable ssl
<Paradox> im on rubygems 2.0.1
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<Paradox> and there's 2.0.2 out
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<yorickpeterse> there was a bug in 2.0.1 related to SSL
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<Paradox> ah fuck
<Paradox> well
<Paradox> guess ill just use rbenv to delete it and reinstall
<Paradox> i only have like 20 gems
<Paradox> oh nvm, heh
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<havenwood> Paradox: I had 2.0.1 probs too >.>
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<havenwood> Paradox: No issues with 2.0.2 :)
<Paradox> yeah, i'm recompiling it now so i can easily update
<Paradox> i tried the various downgrade strategies
<Paradox> and they didnt work and this requires less mental work on my part
<Paradox> slower but hey
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<Paradox> gives me time to have a beer
<Paradox> :D
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<havenwood> Paradox: I actually did the same, use chruby so i just rebuilt Ruby 2 from source to get RubyGems 2.0.0 (was feeling lazy) and ran my gem install script.
<Paradox> thats basically what i did
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<Paradox> `rbenv global 1.9.3-p374;rbenv uninstall 2.0.0-p0; rbenv install 2.0.0-p0`
<Paradox> yay for fish shell
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<andrewvos> Weird
<andrewvos> Freenode go down?
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