<tjgillies>
would be cool if i could do that in ruby
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<oddmunds>
tjgillies: do you know blocks in ruby?
<tjgillies>
yes
<tjgillies>
im wonderin if theres already a library
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<oddmunds>
ok. then i probably misunderstood your question.
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<drbrain>
sounds more like AREL
<oddmunds>
tjgillies: you want the sql-like syntax from linq?
<tjgillies>
yes
<tjgillies>
but query data structures
<drbrain>
doesn't datamapper 2 have something liker his too?
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* tjgillies
finds it ironic he pased a lisp file then was asked if he knew about "blocks"
<tjgillies>
s/pased/pasted/
<oddmunds>
tjgillies: yeah, i meant in ruby
<oddmunds>
stuff have different names and different usages in different languages and places
<oddmunds>
just like i thought you meant something else when you spoke of something like linq
<tjgillies>
ive never used linq
<tjgillies>
i just know thats what people talk about when they talk about the concepts im thinking about
<tjgillies>
so i kind cargo culted that one
<tjgillies>
s/kind/kinda/
<oddmunds>
i use the lambda-like expressions when i use linq (probably because i'm used to using blocks in ruby)
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<oddmunds>
tjgillies: that syntax reminds me a little of the loop syntax in common lisp
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<lewis1711>
what's the issue? ruby has the equivalent of loads of HOF's on lists. just chain them together
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<lewis1711>
tjgillies: "filter" is called "find_all" or "select" in ruby, mapping cons over two lists is the zip method. do you have a specific question?
<tjgillies>
lewis1711: i was looking specifically for a datalog implementation in ruby
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<lewis1711>
"Nokogiri::XML::Node is your window to the fun filled world of dealing with XML and HTML tags." they're not kidding
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<dkannan>
how do i inetgrate two eventmachine apps. eg faye and eventmachine-tail ?
<dkannan>
eh. integrate
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<tbuehlmann>
dkannan, run them both in just one EM reactor
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<Ridders24>
how can I out the user data from the twitter api, Ive managed to get all the other data as shown here: http://pastebin.com/Cxm20s2r but if you look at the user data the info comes under the "user" attribute, and I don't know how to call it: http://pastebin.com/2VRGXS4P
<yorickpeterse>
I really need to start renaming a few things though, it's getting a bit confusing
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<rue>
Ridders24: It’s just another hash.
<Ridders24>
rue: so what do I put? as ive tried ["user" "id"] and i don't get anything
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<Technodrome>
is there any good rib replacement?
<Technodrome>
irb*
<rue>
Ridders24: What do you imagine that does?
<apeiros_>
Technodrome: pry
<Technodrome>
ah yes , that's what its called
<Technodrome>
any others that are good?
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<Ridders24>
rue: was hoping for the user id?, ive also tried ["user"] ["id]
<Technodrome>
apeiros_: any others or is that the best one?
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<rue>
Ridders24: How’d that work out?
<Ridders24>
rue: still nothing
<Technodrome>
ruby review, been doing python for a long time, a normal variable declared in a class, does that become an implicit class variable?
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<Technodrome>
err i guess the better question would be, what is the difference between a class local variable and a class variable defined with @@ ? I can't see the difference
<lewis1711>
"page.forms_with(:action => '/post/login.php')" I don't understand this syntax.
<lewis1711>
what is => ?
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<ledestin>
lewis1711: it's a hash
<ledestin>
just short version, w/o {}
<lewis1711>
ledestin: that was my first guess - but I can't declare a hash like that in irb
<ledestin>
lewis1711: puts :a => 1
<lewis1711>
"a = :a => 1" fails
<lewis1711>
as does just ":a => 1"
<lewis1711>
super confused to be honest
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<soahccc>
lewis1711: It's a feature of ruby that you can pass hash params to a method without the {} but in general you need them. you have to use method() if you want to pass {} because method {} would be a block
<havenwood>
lewis1711: It is an implicit hash, works as params and such: [a: 1]; #=> [{:a=>1}]
<havenwood>
lewis1711: Some call it a 'naked hash'.
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<hagabaka>
lewis1711: So what you pasted is equivalent to page.forms_with({:action => '/post/login.php'}). Ruby allows it, and people do it, because it gives the illusion of supporting named parameters
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<lewis1711>
ahh. the silliest thing as I had come across this once before but promptly forgot about it
<lewis1711>
thanks all
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<mbj>
whitequark: hi
<whitequark>
mbj: hey
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: you here?
<mbj>
whitequark: Just read your invitation.
<mbj>
Back in 5 min with coffe.
<whitequark>
mbj: yeah. let me describe a few design points meanwhile.
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<whitequark>
for everyone else here: I'm writing a better ruby parser, and we're discussing the sexp format for it.
<whitequark>
mbj: first. I'd like to keep as compatible as RP/PT output as it is possible, semantics wise (i.e. node names, children order). however, pointless idiosyncrasies of RB/PT should be fixed.
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: yes
<whitequark>
such as, for example, 0 instead of s(:args) for empty proc args.
<whitequark>
second. we need to add location information to everything, i.e. line and column spans. for this we need to decide what to do for composite nodes.
<whitequark>
for example, s(:defn) spans a lot of children nodes, a lot of columns and possibly lines.
<mbj>
whitequark: This will also allow more orignal source formatting + 1
<whitequark>
mbj: yup.
<mbj>
whitequark: Will you focus on generating sexp or an ast?
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<mbj>
Both are interchangable, just curios.
<yorickpeterse>
The format will be S expressions
<yorickpeterse>
at least I take it will be
<whitequark>
mbj: this is an interesting question. as it seems that I'm the person most suited for hacking on the lexer/parse, and as we've already figured out with yorickpeterse, it is beneficial to have a "SAX-style" parser
<whitequark>
I will make the parse.y trigger callbacks which you can possibly override.
<whitequark>
this is first and foremost important for linters, etc, as both sexp and ast formats lose a lot of source-level detail.
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<mbj>
whitequark: It is okay for me to emit sexp. This also makes sure only a datastructure is emitted.
<mbj>
If you emit an ast you could couple stuff that does not belong there.
<whitequark>
mbj: s-exp format is important for compatibility with RP and is easier to work with. AST format is important for compatibility with rbx (do we need it?), and for my own projects, though I'm using sexps now too.
<whitequark>
I'm actually fine with having both in the gem.
<mbj>
whitequark: Maybe an AST is easier to mutate.
<yorickpeterse>
wouldn't using a SAX parser solve that issue?
<whitequark>
mbj: my furnace-sexp gem is designed so that exps are immutable
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: sure, but we need people to write both backends and tests for them.
<whitequark>
mbj: it is supposed to be used that way, indeed.
<mbj>
whitequark: Perfect, this mirrors the style I use in mutant on the RBX ast.
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: well yeah, and I'd be happy to help once I get back from my holidays
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<mbj>
TBH I'm not very used to the RP ast. Give me some sec.
<whitequark>
so, let me explain my point. I'm willing to have both s-exp and AST backends, but only if I won't have to write, test and maintain both. I don't have enough time.
<whitequark>
note that you need to test that for 1.8, 1.9 and 2.0.
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse seems to prefer sexps too. so, let it be sexps.
<mbj>
We need a convention where to store the source, lineno in the sexp
<whitequark>
mbj: we already have this convention
<whitequark>
in Furnace sexps, you subclass them and add the attr_reader's you want
<mbj>
reading
<whitequark>
e.g. `attr_reader :line`. you then pass `line: 1` in the constructor and it sets the corresponding ivar.
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<mbj>
Got it.
<whitequark>
mbj: so. now we only need a specification for the sexps themselves. which nodes can go where in which nodes, in a nutshell.
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<whitequark>
and how the location info will be set.
<whitequark>
mbj: suggestions?
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<mbj>
whitequark: I need to try for myself, no suggestions for now.
<whitequark>
mbj: "try for myself" as in?
<mbj>
whitequark: The ragel state should have the linneo and column
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<whitequark>
mbj: I think I should make the lexer yyvalue a tuple of [text, location]
<whitequark>
right now it's just `text'
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<whitequark>
this way, I could just pass tokens to whatever's handling the parser's callbacks
<mbj>
whitequark: I do not know how the funace sexp gem works. I need to play around with it and imagine how to build an sexp tree from ragel callbacks.
<whitequark>
the location would be [line, start_col, end_col]; I do not think we have tokens which span multiple lines
<whitequark>
(heredoc strings are separated into multiple tokens)
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<whitequark>
mbj: I think I'll be able to provide examples after this weekend
<whitequark>
but please do explore the infrastructure :)
<mbj>
whitequark: For sure
<whitequark>
mbj: may I ask to what extent are you willing to work on the new parser?
<mbj>
whitequark: I never wrote a parser / lexer for a turing complete language
<whitequark>
i.e. "writing sexp spec", "writing sexp backend", "backend with tests". any of this would be a great help.
<mbj>
whitequark: Covering nodes and add rount trip tests via a to_source port.
<mbj>
*round
<mbj>
whitequark: We should start with literals and round trip them
<mbj>
whitequark: Than binary nodes, and than everything else.
<whitequark>
excellent! I believe that is a part of RubyParser tests, too.
<mbj>
So our tests are like. "assert_round_trippable, 'a = foo', [:assign, [:lvar, :a], [:call, :foo] ]"
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<mbj>
whitequark: Just give it a start, I pick stuff up very quickly.
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<whitequark>
let me explain the roadmap. at Monday or so I finish the ragel lexer and perform various restructurement of the repo to make it easier to work with.
<whitequark>
Then I'll have to rewrite the parser to emit SAX-style events.
<mbj>
whitequark: Why you forked? Lets start from scratch.
<mbj>
No need for the ruby-parser history, IMHO.
<mbj>
?
<whitequark>
mbj: Ok. We'll have to write all tests from scratch, then.
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<whitequark>
Or no?
<mbj>
No real problem. I'd love to have mutant mutation cover them.
<whitequark>
There are also lexer tests.
<mbj>
mom, let me take a look on the ruby-parser test suite
<whitequark>
it's basically lexer tests and parser tests, some of which are in the RP repo and some are pulled from the sexp_processor gem
<mbj>
whitequark: As long as there is ruby code in a def node mutant will make sure we have covering tests.
<whitequark>
mbj: not sure if it is a good idea to run mutant over autogenerated bison/ragel output
<whitequark>
it's enormous, and most of the changes break *everything*
<mbj>
whitequark: I think more about the callbacks.
<mbj>
whitequark: If we do the callback handling in a dedicated class instance we can test them.
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<whitequark>
mbj: Callbacks are most often trivial...
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<mbj>
whitequark: You plan to do the callback handling within the ragel output?
<whitequark>
mbj: no, ragel lexer only communicates with bison parser
<whitequark>
they're dependent on each other.
<whitequark>
the callbacks are invoked by code in bison parser actions
<mbj>
whitequark: Never worked with bison so far. I'll have to learn this part.
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<mbj>
whitequark: So the ragel callbacks are consumed by bison. In this case I agree it does not make sense to mutation cover them.
<whitequark>
there isn't really such a thing as "ragel callbacks", it's a sequence of tokens
<mbj>
whitequark: Yeah, I used to directly create AST like structures from ragel.
<autarch>
not sure if my last message got through - I'm getting an error trying to install the debugger-linecache gem - https://gist.github.com/autarch/5277766
<mbj>
drbrain: I think we'll go for a poro solution.
<mbj>
drbrain: s/poro/puru/ ;)
<autarch>
It looks like it can't find some headers it's looking for - is this a ruby version issue?
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<mbj>
drbrain: But this could speed us up a lot, thx again!
<mbj>
Is this channel logged somewhere? So I can point dkubb to this discussion?
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<drbrain>
mbj: whitequark keeps an online log
<drbrain>
I forget the URL
<drbrain>
autarch: it sounds like the gem hasn't been updated for your version of ruby
<mbj>
drbrain: found it, thx
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<autarch>
weird, if I do "gem install debugger" manually it seems to work
<autarch>
it just wasn't happy doing it via "bundle install"
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<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: mbj: sorry for the AFK'ness, I was on the phone
<yorickpeterse>
just finished reading the log
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<mbj>
yorickpeterse: no problem
<mbj>
yorickpeterse: what do you like/dislike on the current state of the discussion?
<yorickpeterse>
neutral, I need to get my hands dirty with some code before I can form a solid opinion. Having said that, I do like the direction of SAX/sexp for the parser.
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<yorickpeterse>
Though I'm not sure if I understand the use of parse.y since it emits C code, and not Ruby
<yorickpeterse>
which would prevent it from working on jruby
<mbj>
yorickpeterse: I think bison can also emit ruby
<mbj>
yorickpeterse: I'd love jruby compat, the main reason I'm participating here is to port mutant to jruby
<yorickpeterse>
from what I've been told Bison only does C/C++, you'd need to use racc for Ruby
<mbj>
yorickpeterse: Also I plan to do more ruby ast processing and the RBX ast is good but aligned to the bytecode emitter needs to closely
<yorickpeterse>
and since parse.y contains C code directly I'm not sure if that would work out
<mbj>
I'm currently googling for bsion and ruby
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<mbj>
yorickpeterse: The parse.y whitequark created does not have C anymore
<zzak>
drbrain: whats the syntax to try this in rdoc?
<zzak>
file: or ?
<drbrain>
I think file: that ends in .png, .jpg
<drbrain>
I'd have to poke around to find out
<zzak>
np
<zzak>
{whatever}[file:foo.png] just creates a link
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<zzak>
i couldnt find any docs on using images in rdoc either
<zzak>
just old stuff that says use [img:foo]
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<drbrain>
I think there are tests for the img: stuff
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<mbj>
whitequark: I'm out for now, wish you a happy weekend.
<mbj>
drbrain, yorickpeterse: Same for you.
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<whitequark>
zzak: what about  ?
<zzak>
whitequark: http:///foo.png
<whitequark>
zzak: what parser do you use?
<zzak>
rdoc markdown
<zzak>
i would use plain rdoc, but not sure how to create an image using it
<whitequark>
oh, why does rdoc use its own markdown parser? :(
<zzak>
and cant find any docs or tests that tell you how, except for {<img src=}[foo]
<zzak>
because its awesome
<whitequark>
people share code exactly to avoid problems like this, no?
<zzak>
what does that mean
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<whitequark>
well I meant that if rdoc used, for example, kramdown, there will be no need to reimplement the parser and you'll have awesome features of kramdown for free. no?
<drbrain>
whitequark: does kramdown provide a syntax tree?
<drbrain>
whitequark: an HTML-only markdown parser doesn't work for `ri`
<whitequark>
I'm fairly sure I'm going to use either this, or rdoc-tomdoc...
<whitequark>
thanks for telling me about tomdoc btw, I really like it.
<mbj>
whitequark: Back, do not have to run.
<drbrain>
if kramdown was MIT licensed last year I would have worked to import or integrate it into RDoc
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<whitequark>
mbj: what do you think about using tomdoc for parser?
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<mbj>
whitequark: Does it have something like yardstick? A tool that ensures coverage?
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<whitequark>
mbj: there's a plugin for both yard and rdoc.
<whitequark>
ie it is not a documentation tool on its own, it's just a description format which is way more readable than yard tags.
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<mbj>
whitequark: As I said, your repo your rules. I'm trained very much to use yardstick.
<mbj>
whitequark: So I can parse the yardstick commends very fast when browsing code
<mbj>
whitequark: the @notation has a good visual signature for the eyes
<r0bglees0n>
whitequark: it can't describe as much as YARD metatags, though.
<mbj>
whitequark: I'd miss yardstick a lot.
<mbj>
whitequark: We use yardstick in devtools in a way rake ci fails if you missed a required tag
<mbj>
for the others listening, devtools is a metagem we use in dm2 development.
<yorickpeterse>
I think tools like these are way overkill for now
<whitequark>
I agree with yorickpeterse
<yorickpeterse>
I'd much rather focus on writing the parser and tests than documentation/code coverage
<yorickpeterse>
Things will change too often anyway
<whitequark>
this is actually the first time I ever hear about documentation coverage measurement, to be honest
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<r0bglees0n>
yard has had that for a while. rdoc came soon after.
<whitequark>
I'm not opposed to yard so I think we may give it & yardstick a try
<whitequark>
r0bglees0n: in the yardstick sense, I've meant
<r0bglees0n>
ah okay.
<whitequark>
yard measures just the covered classes/methods; yardstick is really much more thorough, it checks docs for parameters, return values, etc
<whitequark>
I can see value in that but it's a lot of work and sometimes I believe this can lead to great redundancy
<whitequark>
the parameter "is_boolean" is kinda self explanatory, there is really no need to attach an yard tag to it.
<yorickpeterse>
stuff like that should be put in once the code is coming together, not from the start
<yorickpeterse>
it only slows development down
<r0bglees0n>
whitequark: well, yard actually tries to be smart and makes a smart guess in some cases.
<r0bglees0n>
for example, in the case of #initialize
<whitequark>
r0bglees0n: yeah I've seen that
<zzak>
drbrain: im only able to show the image using rdoc when i do: {<img src=foo />}[bar]
<mbj>
whitequark: You can rise the documentation coverage bar
<mbj>
whitequark: you do not have to start with 100%
<mbj>
whitequark: But it is good to notice if your coverage drops below your current thresold
<drbrain>
zzak: image support in RDoc has always been limited :/
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<whitequark>
mbj: let's start with free-form documentation and see how that goes
<mbj>
yorickpeterse: I'd opt to use yardstick with a thresold of 0% once it increases the task will notice and we can adjust
<yorickpeterse>
I'd opt not to use it until it's actually useful. There's no point in adding X, keeping it at zero usage when things are still moving around
<mbj>
whitequark: Als long as you do not reject my yard style commits I can accept this ;)
<yorickpeterse>
might as well add it when needed
<whitequark>
mbj: let's see how it goes.
<mbj>
yorickpeterse: I used those tools successfuly in greenfield projects. Both commercial and opensource.
<yorickpeterse>
now to finish my Euruko proposal
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<whitequark>
mbj: yard is fine but I'd really want to avoid documenting obvious things.
<whitequark>
that just litters the code with useless comments
<mbj>
whitequark: So you only document public api?
<whitequark>
mbj: no no, why only public api? I was talking about attaching a comment like "Creates a boolean node." for the `def create_boolean_node`, etc.
<mbj>
For me writing documentation is a very good step to think about the code.
<mbj>
Once I have to document stuff like create_boolean I ask my self: Can I describe this in a few words. If I'm not capable it might need a redesign.
<zzak>
drbrain: np, just have a very special usecase for this and wanted to use rdoc
<mbj>
whitequark: We'll see how it goes ;)
<whitequark>
mbj: I see. I'm not going to reject commits because they have too much docs :D
<r0bglees0n>
yorickpeterse: where is the next heroku?
<whitequark>
zzak: oh neat, it already includes jruby support
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<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: how so? The general concept is fairly simple
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<yorickpeterse>
unless parse.y works from outer to inner, instead of the other way around
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<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: of course it works from inner to outer
<mbj>
whitequark: You created lexer.rl from reverseing the handwritten C in MRI parse.y? Or is there some kind of documentation for all these details such as nested heredocs?
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<whitequark>
mbj: mostly by treating Ruby MRI as a black box and trying to find a minimal sensible algorithm producing the same result
<whitequark>
I did reverse-engineer EXPR_* stuff
<whitequark>
the heredoc part was blackboxed.
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: in that case it shouldn't be that har
<yorickpeterse>
* hard
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: there are tons of slightly different but essentially the same cases in parse.y
<whitequark>
like four variants of `alias`
<zzak>
whitequark: its stdlib
<zzak>
so jruby has a racc
<whitequark>
zzak: I want to run the racc executable to generate a grammar
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<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: are we talking about "a lot of work" in terms of quantity or complexity?
<whitequark>
because CI
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: complexity, mostly. to avoid turning it into quantity :)