apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.0.0-p0: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p392) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<cstrahan> wcc
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<kentos> anyone have thoughts/ preference for either `blah(); return false` vs `blah() && (return false)`
<kentos> I think I encounter the && style (or maybe it's `and`) more often than I see semicolons. Not sure if there's a reason for it though
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<drbrain> kentos: those do entirely different things
<drbrain> blah && return false returns only if blah returns a true value
<drbrain> blah; return false returns regardless of the return value
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<kentos> oh gosh, thanks drbrain, I hadn't realized that
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<Qfwfq> Is there a tidy way of casting a parent object into one of its children?
<Qfwfq> The child necessarily has all the necessary properties, right?
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<injekt> wat
<injekt> Qfwfq: what exactly do you want?
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<injekt> A is already a kind of B (in terms of an instance) so why do you want a a.class #=> B ?
<injekt> er B is already a kind of A*
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<Qfwfq> Mechanize uses Page internally, and I want to add to that without polluting the original class.
<Qfwfq> I could define successor within Mechanize::Page, and that would work, but I'd rather not.
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<injekt> you can leverage the pluggable parser for this
* Qfwfq reads documentation
<injekt> agent.pluggable_parser.html = YourParser
<Qfwfq> Oh, that's kind of sexy.
<Qfwfq> Thanks injekt
<injekt> yeah :)
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<injekt> I think I've changed the docs a little on head which is why i pointed there instead of the actual docs as i've written more since they were last updated
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<injekt> which reminds me.. really need to release
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<injekt> manveru: are you still at iron?
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<yorickpeterse> morning
<judofyr> morning
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<apeiros_> möin
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<injekt> moin
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<injekt> judofyr: I think sequel won the showdown
<judofyr> \o/
<injekt> well, it looks wayyyy nicer
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<judofyr> injekt: I like how Sequel doesn't try to create a whole new abstraction on top of SQL
<injekt> yeah
<judofyr> injekt: in ARel I feel I must (1) know the SQL I want and (2) know the ARel abstraction
<judofyr> although I guess they aim for you to only know about (2)…
<injekt> judofyr: that's exactly how i felt yesterday, with sequel i just wrote the sql in ruby and everything kinda worked
<injekt> I didn't refer to docs, i pinged jeremy but then just tried it myself and it sort of just worked
<judofyr> injekt: this is also how I feel a bit about DM2
<judofyr> and the whole relational algebra engine
<injekt> judofyr: I've never used dm, I never liked how it was all separate
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* apeiros_ no like ORM
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<judofyr> I should probably finish my meta-ORM
<apeiros_> for simple cases it looks always nice. but for any reasonably complex system, it becomes a disadvantage in about every regard IMO
<judofyr> it will be awesome1
<injekt> these orms are all pretty much bloated though I guess, they do way more than an orm should do in simple terms
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<injekt> or 'could do' i guess
<injekt> apeiros_: yeah that's what I've noticed this week
<injekt> the query isn't really even that advanced
<injekt> it's just one subquery
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<apeiros_> injekt: I made good experiences with using views and read-only models to hide DB/data complexity
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<apeiros_> I think it'd even be possible to have "write-through" views, which allow read/write models on views too
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<apeiros_> and I have by now done it both ways - use views to show only part of a huge table (since separating it out into multiple made no sense - but validations/workflows demanded multiple models)
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<apeiros_> and views to have complex joins over multiple tables
<apeiros_> or with subselects for certain fields
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<apeiros_> or even aggregate views (lag - awesome function)
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<darix> moin
<darix> injekt: you are back to the topic from yesterday?
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<darix> apeiros_: at least in pgsql you can have triggers that intercept the write to the view and rewrite the query to the other tables
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<apeiros_> hm, I've never explored it, but I think oracle can do that automatically for you
<apeiros_> would be sad if there's a thing which oracle does better than pg :-/
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<darix> apeiros_: i am not sure that pg wants to be as good as oracle at ruining opensource projects. ;)
<apeiros_> (I might be mistaken, though. as said I've never explored it)
<darix> some some things you just have to give them credits.
<darix> s/some some/for some/
<apeiros_> I don't see how a transparent view is ruining OS projects…
<darix> apeiros_: you didnt get the joke :p
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<apeiros_> nope, still don't
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<injekt> :)
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<nXqd> hi guys is there any method which is alternative for present? which just returns false if the upper array is not available
<injekt> 'upper array'? also present? isn't a Ruby method, it's added by active support
<nXqd> for example : params[:user][:id].present? will raise an error if :user is not available
<nXqd> is there any alternative method that just return false instead ?
<injekt> nXqd: no, params[:user] and params[:user][:id].present? or params[:user].try(:[], :id)
<injekt> or Hash[params[:user]][:id].present? (or if you're on Ruby 2.0: params[:user].to_h[:id].present?)
<nXqd> hat downs ! :)
<nXqd> does try return only true and false ?
<injekt> no it returns nil or the method return
<nXqd> i'm new to ruby what is method return. what will it return when [:user][:id] available ?
<injekt> nXqd: params[:user].try(:[], :id) will return params[:user][:id] if it exists, else nil
<injekt> it will not raise an exception like I presume it's doing now
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<nXqd> thanks injekt.
<injekt> [] is just a method on Hash, params is a (custom hash like object that rails creates), so [:user] is doing hash.[](:user)
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<nXqd> param_id = params[:user].try(:[], :id) <newline> if params_id do .. end
<nXqd> is there anything like
<nXqd> if param_id = params[:user].try(:[], :id) do .. end
<injekt> yes
<nXqd> great
<injekt> if x do; is invalid ruby, though
<injekt> well.. heh
<nXqd> okay without do* my mistake
<nXqd> more love for the minimal syntax :P
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<nXqd> but should I create a small little method
<injekt> yeah, personally I'd avoid try in this sense because I think confusing at first look
<injekt> if params[:user] and user_id = params[:user][:id]
<injekt> is probably how I'd write it
<darix> doesnt activesupport give such a .try method?
<injekt> darix: yes do you never scroll back?
<nXqd> which is called is_available_user_id or just let it be
<darix> injekt: not far enough it seems:p
<injekt> nXqd: you use it that often?
<nXqd> one time for sure
<injekt> I think you need to refactor in general
<injekt> i see code smells already
<nXqd> thanks injekt, I want to talk a little bit more about this after having lunch now :P but it's great to have your help
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<nXqd> because sometimes I'm a bit confused
<nXqd> when to create another function
<injekt> nXqd: no problem, you might want to move your questions to #ror as the rails channel is a little more specific for your questions
<nXqd> which makes it more understandable [ without writing comment ] or when it's used in multiple places
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<yorickpeterse> heh, co-workers got bitten by Ruby's pre-scanning for variable assignments
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<yorickpeterse> Fun to explain that that's a "feature" and not a bug
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<rking> yorickpeterse: Hrm. The feature being the way local scopes work?
<yorickpeterse> No, basically this:
<yorickpeterse> The code was a bit more complex but basically there was reader X and a local variable created with the same name, this conflicted and threw a "undefined method blabla on NilClass"
<yorickpeterse> If you've never seen that before that's one big omgwtfbbq
<rking> But if it acted differently, wouldn't it be like: if cond; x = 1 end; x.hihi # 'x' would be inaccessible outside the block if there wasn't some "promote outside this block" rule
<yorickpeterse> conditions/statements don't create a new scope
<rking> Well, actually, I'm not sure I can justify why local_variables needs to do it there
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<rking> Is it just an implementation detail that it pre-scans?
<yorickpeterse> During parsing it prescans code for assignments
<yorickpeterse> Yeah
<yorickpeterse> interesting sidenote: Ripper's output does not contain information that suggests this
<yorickpeterse> it just returns the variables as @ident nodes
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<rking> Hrm
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<yorickpeterse> Ha, this is one of the things I should show to people on Euroko if I ever get around making a proposal
<yorickpeterse> "HAI MY NAME IS YORICK. DO YOU THINK YOU KNOW RUBY? BRRZZT< WRONG"
<rking> Those kinds of talks are fun/popular and also useful. You've seen Gary Bernhardt's 'wat' one, right?
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<yorickpeterse> Yeah
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<rking> Actually, I think you really should publish your list in some form or another. I'm sure you've discovered some stuff that would take the rest of us longer to find (and longer to realize what's happening once we do find it)
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<yorickpeterse> Well I do plan to speak on Euruko, I'm just waiting for the CFP to open
<rking> Cool.
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<mehwork> how come if use the command-line 'gem install tzinfo-0.3.37' it says it can't find it in the sources, but if i put that in a Gemfile and run 'bundle install' it finds it?
<mehwork> the only thing i can think of is that the gem command-line isn't using rubygems.org as a source, but how can i tell if it is or not?
<Mon_Ouie> Because you put the version in the name of the gem probably
<Mon_Ouie> gem install thing -v 0.3.37
<mehwork> hmm! ok let's me see
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<mehwork> yep that was it. Thank's so much
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<outoftime> anyone got a favorite (free) resource for an experienced programmer who is new to ruby?
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<ddd> iwanttolearnruby.com
<ddd> craploads for both ruby, and the rails framework (when you're ready/willing to look into that). most of whats there isn't rails specific/related
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<joevandyk> is there something in the stdlib (or in activesupport) that let's me easily get the "the last 5 pm" or "the next 7 pm"? Or should I roll my own function?
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<yorickpeterse> Sometimes I wish there was a compiled, object oriented language with a sane syntax
<yorickpeterse> sometimes I also wish I could ride a unicorn
<darix> yorickpeterse: well something like CoffeeC?
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: like... foundry? :D
<darix> whitequark: link?
<yorickpeterse> darix: don't tell me that exists
<darix> yorickpeterse: i dont know
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: well yeah, once it's out and I can start writing bindings for it
<yorickpeterse> I'd abuse it on anything but embedded hardware
<darix> yorickpeterse: also ... mirah comes to mind
<darix> could probably do something similar with llvm as backend instead of the jvm
<whitequark> darix: that's what I'm doing, more or less http://whitequark.org/blog/2012/12/06/a-language-for-embedded-developers/
<yorickpeterse> Mirah is still active?
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: also that reminds me... I need to post the summary to the ML
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<whitequark> and get the fuck to code
<whitequark> finally
<darix> whitequark: oh i read that if i recall correctly
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: Yeah, code is always good
<darix> yorickpeterse: doesnt really matter ... adapting the idea
<yorickpeterse> tbh if whitequark doesn't end up spending his time on hookers and blow Foundry might be pretty fucking sweet
<darix> yorickpeterse: for some weird stuff http://elixir-lang.org/
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<yorickpeterse> isn't Erlang super slow to start up?
<yorickpeterse> at least from what I've read
<darix> yorickpeterse: who cares about start up. just dont shut your system down :p
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: JUST LIKE RAILS
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<whitequark> also there's bare-metal erlang iirc, on xen
<darix> you can do live code changing in erlang
<whitequark> darix: under certain circumstances
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: of course the question remains, is Foundry webscale?
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: I plan to write a mongodb backend
<yorickpeterse> get out
<whitequark> it will have sharding
<yorickpeterse> k, I'll write a Node.js adapter
* whitequark slaps yorickpeterse around a bit with a large trout
<yorickpeterse> "a bit" that's it?
<whitequark> yes.
<whitequark> nodejs doesn't deserve more.
<yorickpeterse> I'm so glad we don't use i...oh fuck we do
<yorickpeterse> Because fucking Hubot runs it
<whitequark> hubot is meh
<whitequark> but there's etherpad and etherpad lite
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<whitequark> one is nodejs. the other one is Scala and something so heavy for the storage that my server OOMs even before I hit <enter> on the start command
<yorickpeterse> I like the part where Hubot is written in Node but still blocks when you do "heavy" tasks
<whitequark> isn't that the whole point of node?
<whitequark> to have concurrency even worse than in ruby?
<Ridders24> Does anyone have any experience with Anemome?
<yorickpeterse> Ridders24: you mean http://anemone.rubyforge.org/ ?
<Ridders24> yorickpeterse: thats the one
<yorickpeterse> what exactly are you having trouble with?
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<Ridders24> on its website it states "Anemone will only crawl pages from the same domain as the start URL" meaning that if another website url is on the webpage it won't start crawling that one?
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<darix> hmm what's the advantage over using mechanize?
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<yorickpeterse> Ridders24: basically it means that if the hostname is "a.com" it will not crawl URLs such as "b.com", "b.com/foo", etc
<yorickpeterse> darix: it uses Mechanize I believe
<darix> yorickpeterse: no
<darix> from a glance it doesnt
<Ridders24> yorickpeterse: even if a url from b.com is present on a.com ?
<yorickpeterse> Ah. Well, as far as I know Mechanize would require you to extract URLs yourself, loop through them, store them, etc
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<yorickpeterse> Ridders24: yes
<yorickpeterse> Basically what it means is "I will not leave domain a.com"
<yorickpeterse> At least that's what I'd expect
<Ridders24> yorickpeterse: can i change that ?
<darix> Ridders24: you have the code
<yorickpeterse> I'm afraid I have no idea
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<Ridders24> darix: I don't see any rule in the code that stays stay within with domain
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<joevandyk> How hard would it be to write an extension that let me make and restore a snapshot of a database? (without needing to create a new database?) Say it worked like "select snapshot.make('label')" and "select snapshot.restore('label')"
<joevandyk> would be handy when running hundreds of tests against a database where you want to restore the data each time.
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<joevandyk> oops, wrong channel
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<yorickpeterse> And now comes the long and boring task of generating a set of definitions for the Ruby code/stdlib
<yorickpeterse> where each definition contains the name of a method, its arguments (and names) and its return value
<yorickpeterse> *2 weeks later*
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<yorickpeterse> what about it?
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<andrewvos> Just a present
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<yorickpeterse> http://pastie.org/6479252 and so it begins
<yorickpeterse> I really, really need to auto generate at least the method declarations and such
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<andrewvos> `gem install pope`
<adam12> lol
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: didn't diamondback ruby contain a type-annotated reference of most stdlib methods?
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<ryanf> zenspider: hey, how come ZenTest is a runtime dependency of RubyInline?
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<drbrain> ryanf: name conversion from C to ruby
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<ryanf> drbrain: thanks
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<dostoyevsky> Hey, I have released a gem in the past and want to release a new version but the last time I've done this was some years ago and I did it on rubyforge.org... how would I do it today? Any hints?
<apeiros_> dostoyevsky: gem push your.gem
<dostoyevsky> how does it know that I am the author of the gem and can push a new version?
<apeiros_> you need your rubyforge credentials
<apeiros_> from back then
<dostoyevsky> Ah, ok
<apeiros_> tbh, I barely remember. I made my setup like ages ago.
<apeiros_> and now I never need anything beyond `gem push` :)
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<brianpWins> Anyone know where the Symbol implementation is for ruby? (side not the c files in ruby-docs are broken)
<brianpWins> s/not/note
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<brianpWins> Specifically my interest is learning where/how it gets instantiated and allocated etc.
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<apeiros_> brianpWins: a couple of it is in string.c
<brianpWins> apeiros_: with ruby-docs being broken where is the best place for me to peruse that file? Could I find it in the ruby install on my system?
<apeiros_> depends on how you installed it
<apeiros_> else ruby's github or svn
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<brianpWins> apeiros_: well that was easy lol. Why i didn't think to check github i have no idea. Thanks =D
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<zenspider> brianpWins: it's all in string.c
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<zenspider> if you want to spelunk in the depths of ruby, you should have a checkout
<apeiros_> brianpWins: (re: why didn't I think) or ruby-lang.org ;-p
<zenspider> or at least a tarball
<apeiros_> (incredible, but it links the source!)
<brianpWins> ruby-lang is broken.
<brianpWins> all the source file links are down
<apeiros_> and damn you time! when did you fly by that fast?
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<zenspider> also, exuberant c tags to tag and navigate the source
<zenspider> brianpWins: github.com/ruby/ruby
<apeiros_> brianpWins: works fine here
<apeiros_> brianpWins: behind proxy?
<zenspider> I suggest you clone with a depth 0
<brianpWins> apeiros_: strange. yeah maybe it's my connection
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<brianpWins> zenspider: thanks. I check out exuberant. I haven't spent any time in c so it's all new to me
<zenspider> all good editors support ctags
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<headius> anyone on Windows with a recent JRuby handy?
<brianpWins> just incase it's something you've come across before. Part of my interest is knowing exactly what happens when you type :some_symbol into irb. Like the code that executes to know "Hey we're about to make a symbol"
<banisterfiend> brianpWins: #inspect, usually
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<banisterfiend> brianpWins: read --> eval --> puts #inspect on eval output --> loop :)
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<banisterfiend> we use pretty_inspect in pry though
<banisterfiend> + some coloration
<brianpWins> banisterfiend: so is that all still happening at an object level I'd be used to or is that happening in C?
<banisterfiend> brianpWins: pure ruby
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<banisterfiend> brianpWins: the only magic behind all ruby REPLs is really Binding#eval
<brianpWins> That makes sense
<banisterfiend> oh, and figuring out when u have a complete expression
<banisterfiend> there's various strategies for that
<banisterfiend> IRB takes a weird route, it has its own lexer
<brianpWins> banisterfiend any suggested reading (including source files) you think i might be interested in reading?
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<brianpWins> also I use pry all the time. One of those first day on a new project add pry to the bundle things
<banisterfiend> brianpWins: well, the pry source might be more accessible than the irb source, but im not sure
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<banisterfiend> we try to add comments for most of our methods/classes, but we addmitedly still have some weird code in there that is perhaps hard to grok
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<banisterfiend> brianpWins: the best way to read pry source is in pry itself ;)
<banisterfiend> cd Pry
<banisterfiend> show-source WhateverClassOrMethodYouWant
<brianpWins> cool. I will poke around in there tonight. It really all kind of came about by playing with symbols last night and I realized they don't have a public initialize method and needed to figure out why they become what they do.
<banisterfiend> brianpWins: i dont think any classes have public initialize methods
<banisterfiend> initialize is usually private
<banisterfiend> but Symbols are immediate values
<brianpWins> this is true. but I couldn't think of any way to create a symbol except the standard way and it made me curious what actually happens in that process
<banisterfiend> so they're not created in the normal way
<banisterfiend> brianpWins: Symbols are similar (in some ways) to Fixnums
<banisterfiend> you don't 'create' the number 5 in any other way than specifying it, really
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<brianpWins> that makes sense. I guess I ignorantly always just assumed at some level something would have been like Fixnum.new(5) and now we have a 5. I really don't know. lol what I just wrote was ridiculous haha
<banisterfiend> sorry wront gist
<banisterfiend> brianpWins: here: https://gist.github.com/febb1f0580cc42eb4297
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<banisterfiend> that code explains the way Symbols (and other immediates) are stored directly in the VALUE pointer
<brianpWins> Ahhhhhh
<banisterfiend> normal object created via Object.new for example are norally allocated on the heap and they go through a proper initialization process
<banisterfiend> normally*
<brianpWins> "On the heap"
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<banisterfiend> brianpWins: probably need to do a bit of C programming to know how all this fits together
<brianpWins> yeah. I assumed some of it was going to be over my head but it didn't hurt to come asking =)
<brianpWins> banisterfiend: thanks for the info and taking your time to introduce me to the concepts etc.
<banisterfiend> np
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