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<ericwood>
hi
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<oliver___>
I thought that class variables could only be accessed from class methods and instance variables could only be accessed by instance methods, but it seems like I can access class variables from instance methods
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<ReinH>
oliver___: correct
<oliver___>
ReinH: good to know :) are class variables something that you usually want to avoid if not necessary?
<ReinH>
I prefer to avoid them. They have some surprising behavior wrt subclasses.
<oliver___>
ReinH: I see, thanks :)
<ReinH>
np
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<bnagy>
oliver___: avoid them if they're not neccessary. Supplemental: They're never neccessary.
<oliver___>
bnagy: thanks, I just changed to instance variables instead, I just defined the variable straight inside the class and now it says undefined variable; I guess I have to put instance variables inside the constructor method
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<bnagy>
oliver___: class instance variables are almost always what you want
<drbrain>
oliver___: that is the best place to initialize them
<bnagy>
you're probably just not accessing them correctly
<oliver___>
so technically instance variables get set even if they
<oliver___>
're not inside the constructor method
<bnagy>
sorry.... I mean if you thought you wanted @@classvar you probably wanted class @ivar
<drbrain>
bnagy: I wish we had better ways of describing "class instance variables" vs "class variables"
<drbrain>
oliver___: you can set them anywhere
<bnagy>
:/ yeah. I wish we just didn't have class variables.
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<bnagy>
like hahaha globals but only for anyone genetically related to this class in any way
<oliver___>
hm, I put @defaults = { ... } inside constructor method, then I try to access it from inside a method in same class but it says undefined, do I have to define attr_reader to access it from inside the same class?
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<bnagy>
oliver___: you're probably going to have to go through the whole process of learning about classes and instances
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<bnagy>
not being condescending at all.. it takes time to get your head around
<bnagy>
the fundamenta question is "what is 'self' right now?"
<oliver___>
I'm used to being able to access private variables from inside the class in PHP, guess I'm not used to Ruby yet, actually just started with Ruby a short while ago
<bnagy>
yeah you'll need to grok the way the OO works a bit better before it's natural
<oliver___>
I see, basically what I tried to do was to access an variable that I set inside a class from inside a method of the same class, kind of like $this->variable works in PHP
<oliver___>
will do some research, thanks :)
<bnagy>
oliver___: right, so to do THAT you need to get a ref to your class, not to yourself
<bnagy>
so like self.class.some_method
<bnagy>
because self, for an instance method, is the instance
<oliver___>
ah! that makes a lot of sense!
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<yorickpeterse>
we also might want to reconsider requiring registration
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<apeiros_>
this is a loosing battle. the only party which can make a difference is freenode.
<apeiros_>
*losing
<apeiros_>
and those bots are registered. so no point in requiring a registration.
<yorickpeterse>
hm
<ljarvis>
heh
<apeiros_>
freenode would have to kline users which exhibit specific patterns. such as privmsg the same to multiple people with no interaction otherwise.
<apeiros_>
but I'm tired of asking them for change.
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<yorickpeterse>
if you're lucky that will be implemented in 5 years
<yorickpeterse>
we should just start our own network
<yorickpeterse>
that would totally work
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<bnagy>
or type /wc once every 4 days
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<yorickpeterse>
/wc ?
<bnagy>
close window
<yorickpeterse>
hm, merges windows for me
<yorickpeterse>
heh
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<darix>
how would your own network help? if you get popular enough the bots will just follow.
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<yorickpeterse>
it was a joke
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<ljarvis>
/connect irc.ragingyorick.net
<ljarvis>
/join #yorickrants
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<yorickpeterse>
or just follow me on Twitter
<yorickpeterse>
Bug of the day:
<yorickpeterse>
Syslog.err("foo%20bar") triggers an ArgumentError
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<RickHull>
i'm running into some issues with github/travis that I don't have locally, regarding minitest
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<RickHull>
the big issue right now is I am using minitest/benchmark, and the bench_range feature
<RickHull>
via `rake bench` and BenchSpec
<RickHull>
with warnings on
<RickHull>
runnign locally, no warnings, and runs as expected
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<RickHull>
on travis, I get a bunch of warnings, and the benchmark section exits 1, undefined method bench_range on <Class:blah blah>
<RickHull>
i'm not using bundler locally, and travis is, so that is probably related
<RickHull>
i execute tests (minitest/spec) separate from benchmarks, triggered by `rake test` and `rake bench` respectively; for now i have disabled rake bench on travis
<ReinH>
length is O(1) right? So this should be fine.
<andrewvos>
there's a maxium of 25 items
<andrewvos>
and I doubt that will change
<waxjar>
a,b = [xs,ys].sort_by(&:size); a.zip(b)
<drbrain>
ReinH: O(1), ruby arrays know their size
<ReinH>
waxjar: it's an option, but I don't like the behavior at all
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<ReinH>
either interleaving nils or no longer interleaving are both bad
<ReinH>
drbrain: I figured.
<andrewvos>
waxjar: ooh
<waxjar>
yeah, agreed
<waxjar>
i think you should switch b and a, though, if you want to interleave with the longest array
<ReinH>
Oh, I could use min_by(&:length) of course
<waxjar>
goes on shortest array right now
<waxjar>
even neater :)
<ReinH>
I just think that the behavior for anything other than equal-length arrays is poorly defined
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<ReinH>
Why do you want to do this in the first place, though? Maybe there's a better way.
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<ruby123>
Hi guys, can anyone help with a pass by value / reference question?
<ReinH>
ruby123: Sure.
<andrewvos>
ReinH: Who me?
<ReinH>
andrewvos: yeah.
<ruby123>
I have an array, and a hash. I do this array << hash.
<ReinH>
andrewvos: it's an interesting problem per se, but maybe not one you really need to solve :)
<andrewvos>
ReinH: I have a home page feed that has to mix a list of products and product interactions
<ruby123>
Then when I change the hash object, the array also changes!
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<andrewvos>
So I have Product and Activity models
<andrewvos>
And after spending hours trying to get ActiveRecord to play nice I thought "fuck it I'm doing two queries"
<ruby123>
How do I pass the *values* from the hash object into the array
<ReinH>
ruby123: You don't, but you can use dup to pass a new object.
<ruby123>
So I cant build a hash object, the << it into an array so its *fixed* values? I have to do this.... array_var << { "value1" => "1", "value2" => "2"}
<ReinH>
ruby123: Right, Ruby passes references to objects. If those objects are mutated anywhere, they are mutated everywhere.
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<ReinH>
The only options are to freeze the objects (which is problematic) or duplicate them to simulate call-by-value
<yxhuvud>
unless the object itself lives in the reference, like integers.
<banister>
andrewvos what do u want th equery to do
<ReinH>
yxhuvud: quite true
<banister>
i have mad arel skillz
<banister>
(not really)
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<andrewvos>
banister: I have Activity and Product. I want a query that takes one Product then one Activity then one Product etc.
<andrewvos>
And I also want to page it afterwards and I also want to join Activity.product
<ReinH>
andrewvos: I wouldn't suggest making an array of interleaved Product and Activity objects. I would suggest attaching the activities to their respective products and then rendering the list of products
<banister>
andrewvos sounds like you want includes()
<ReinH>
Any products without activities would have activities=[] as a default, for instance
<banister>
but you can't get back a relation with two kinds of objects
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<ReinH>
andrewvos: I would also suggesting learning how to get what you want from the database in the first place ;)
<andrewvos>
ReinH: yes but there's a lot more products than products with activities and my task is to make the page show 50% products + 50% activities
<yxhuvud>
banister: well, you can if you use sti
<andrewvos>
ReinH: I know how to get it from the database!
<andrewvos>
SQL is easy
<ReinH>
andrewvos: fair enough
<ReinH>
So you want a stream of interleaved products and product activities
<andrewvos>
SQL with active_record is far beyond me abilities
<yxhuvud>
how would you achieve that in pure SQL?
<ruby123>
Ok, I can array_var << "hash.keys", and array_var << "hash.values". Is there a way to extract the hash values and put them in the array e.g. array_var << puts "#{hash}"
<ReinH>
ruby123: why would you want to covert the hask into a string?
<ReinH>
you can just array << hash.dup
<ReinH>
*hash
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<andrewvos>
yxhuvud: check that gist
<ruby123>
ok, hash.dup sounds like the only way to stop the array changing when the var changes.
<ReinH>
ruby123: Ruby is designed to have mutable objects.
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<ReinH>
You aren't changing the var, you're changing the object that the var references
<ruby123>
Ok, thanks!
<banister>
andrewvos i like your work
<jhass>
ruby123: remove the abstraction, what's your actual problem, show code, why do you have to modify the hash after adding it to the array, why is it a problem and so on
<banister>
andrewvos is this perosnal or work-related btw?
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<andrewvos>
banister: work related
<banister>
andrewvos just do two queries homie
<banister>
that's cray what u doing
<andrewvos>
banister: yeah I am
<jhass>
ruby123: needing .dup is a small hint that there might be a nicer solution, so we should have a look at it at least ;)
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<ruby123>
Ok, let me explain. I have an array called customers. I make a new_customer = Hash.new and start adding values to it e.g. new_customer['name'] = "John". Finally I push the Hash onto the array stack. But when I reuse that new_customer var, of course the array changes because I pushed the reference to the new_customer object.
<jhass>
well, that's expected
<jhass>
don't make that new_customer = {} conditional
<jhass>
always doing before adding values to it
<jhass>
*do it
<jhass>
it's a new customer, so make a new hash
<jhass>
.dup there will actually break once you make one of the keys conditional
<jhass>
and one of the new customers will get the previous customers value if it doesn't set it
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<ruby123>
Oh I see! So when I do new_customer = {} when I want to start a new one, the old object reference is still sat there in the Array queue but I'm now working on a new object, but using the old variable.
<jhass>
yes
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<ruby123>
So *everything* is an object, even values sat in an Array?
<jhass>
everything in ruby is or can be represented as an object, yes
<waxjar>
ruby only has references, really. so when you do h = { :foo => "bar" }; a = []; a << h, you're just pushing the object that h refers to onto the array. they're the same object.
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<jeremie>
hi everybody o/
<jhass>
hi
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<ruby123>
ok, thanks for all your explanations. That saved me a headache!
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<jeremie>
i'm a newbie on Ruby, usually working with php, and i'm currently trying to download a zip file, but i just can't make it work out, so if anyone see where is the problem with my code, that would be a really nice ^^ => https://gist.github.com/anonymous/273945f710d4f17373a5
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<ruby123>
Just one last question. When I do this h = { foo: "bar"}; h << { another: "one"} is that hash an object too? Just with no variable assigned?
<jhass>
jeremie: for starters I see no exception there. So what's wrong? On a side note, would you recommend people to use php3? ;)
<weaksauce>
ruby123 yes
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<weaksauce>
try it out {}.object_id
<jeremie>
jhass: i get your point ^^
<jhass>
ruby123: it won't work, Hash#<< is not defined ;)
<banister>
andrewvos nice, btw in rails 4 you can do activities.map(&:id) => activities.ids :)
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<ruby123>
Oh yeah, I get a new object ref each time I hit {}.object_id
<jeremie>
jhass: and i apologize for not explaining the error i get, it's a timeout exception, sorry >__<
<banister>
andrewvos oh no, not iwth yoru code, cos u're using a map, sry
<weaksauce>
ruby123 everything in ruby is an object
<banister>
(i mean you ha vean array, not an ar::relation)
<jhass>
banister: andrewvos and for .map(&:something) use .pluck(:something)
<andrewvos>
jhass: why?
<jhass>
avoids allocating all that AR:B's for throwing them away
<andrewvos>
oh ok
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<andrewvos>
could just use to_a up aboe that I guess
<banister>
andrewvos are you on a rails 4 codbase?
<jhass>
jeremie: but a, let's say wget on that url works from the same machine?
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<jeremie>
jhass: yes, it works
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<jhass>
why do you have to download that file with ruby?
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<jeremie>
jhass: cause i'm trying to modify a script related to redmine (ruby written) and i'd like to avoid calling a system to get my file, that's all
<jhass>
I'd try open-uri to avoid all that net/http madness
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<jeremie>
jhass: thanks, currently updating ruby, and when it's done, i'm gonna try what you send
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<ReinH>
waxjar: call-by-reference is Close Enough most of the time. The main exception is that the references are immutable, so you can't (say) implement a variable swap by swapping the references like you could in C.
<ReinH>
waxjar: Python folks refer to this evaluation strategy as "call by object", which I think is marginally better. Maybe.
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<andrewvos>
banister: Yeah latest rails
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<jeremie>
jhass: well, it's now working perfectly, with a really simplier code ^^
<jeremie>
jhass: thank you very much :D
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<jhass>
you're welcome
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<RickHull>
... test/bench_board_state.rb:9:in `block in <top (required)>': undefined method `bench_range' for #<Class:0x000000020d6298> (NoMethodError)
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<jhass>
RickHull: for starters ensure environment matches
<jhass>
check in your Gemfile.lock
<jhass>
add bundler_args: "--deployment" to your .travis.yml
<jhass>
use bundle exec rake locally to run your tests
<RickHull>
hm, yeah
<RickHull>
i'm actually preferring not to use bundler, only required by travis
<RickHull>
but that must be part of the issue
<RickHull>
e.g. I don't have bundler installed locally
<jhass>
you're just experiencing why bundler exists
<jhass>
it prevents exactly this kind of environment mismatch
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<RickHull>
yeah...
<RickHull>
giving it a whirl locally
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<RickHull>
ok, i see my minitest is 4.7.5 locally, 5.4.3 on travis
<RickHull>
i installed my local gems with --user-install; with `bundle install` it wants sudo for system install or vendored
<RickHull>
can i do the equivalent of --user-install instead? or vendor them? or is system install fine for this purpose?
<jhass>
I prefer setting $GEM_HOME to the location --user-install uses
<jhass>
bundler unfortunately lacks the feature to respect --user-install
<RickHull>
so... how are milestones for merging bundler features into rubygems? ;)
<jhass>
granted that is a fairly new feature of rubygems
<jhass>
we already got gem install -g ;)
<jhass>
but they'll never merge completely, just some features will be shifted from bundler into rubygems
<jhass>
and that mostly for the library side, not so much the CLI side afaik
<RickHull>
i just hate the extra layer of management shit that comes with bundler. i get that there is some value there, and makes up for missing rubygems features
<RickHull>
but i'd rather have just the one layer, preferring if rubygems can handle environment replication and isolation
<RickHull>
maybe it needs to be inside a bench_* block
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<RickHull>
wallerdev: the thing is, the test case works under 4.x
<wallerdev>
complain to zenspider
<wallerdev>
lol
<RickHull>
yeah... i'm waiting for him to get back to me
<RickHull>
the docs don't indicate how this stuff should be used. must I subclass test::unit and def self.bench_range?
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<RickHull>
i'm leaning towards a bug/regression
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banister is now known as banisterfiend
<RickHull>
wallerdev: also, that's from 2010 -- maybe doesn't work on 5.x either -- I don't see any programmatic link from the spec stuff to the subclass stuff above
<RickHull>
banisterfiend: HALP
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<banisterfiend>
RickHull sup
<RickHull>
how is NL?
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<banisterfiend>
RickHull Gr8, m8. I rel8, str8 appreci8, and congratul8. I r8 this b8 an 8/8. Plz no h8, I'm str8 ir8. Cr8 more, can't w8. We should convers8, I won't ber8, my number is 8888888, ask for N8. No calls l8 or out of st8. If on a d8, ask K8 to loc8. Even with a full pl8, I always have time to communic8 so don't hesit8.
<banisterfiend>
RickHull it's good :)
<RickHull>
wallerdev: (so i don't think def self.bench_range could help)
<banisterfiend>
RickHull dating a crazy girl though, what's up wit u?
<wallerdev>
lol
<RickHull>
taking it easy over the holiday season on US east coast. job hunt on US west coast
<wallerdev>
bay area?
<banisterfiend>
RickHull still doing dat rails?
<RickHull>
ha, never really did
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<RickHull>
wallerdev: most likely
<wallerdev>
cool we can hang out
<wallerdev>
<3
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<wallerdev>
what companies are yhou looking at
<RickHull>
o/ \o
<RickHull>
anything small and ruby- or elixir-friendly; dev/test infrastructure; no particular companies in mind
<wallerdev>
cool
<wallerdev>
javascript is the future though
* RickHull
barf
<wallerdev>
:o
<wallerdev>
i do JS full time haha
<whitequark>
burrrrrn
<RickHull>
js is a blight on the world
<RickHull>
cs is ok
<wallerdev>
cs is awful
<ericwood>
JS is a thing and there will be other things
<ericwood>
reminds me of the Java craze in the 90s
<ericwood>
granted the JVM did catch on :)
<whitequark>
except we didn't build all our infra on top of java
<RickHull>
i hate js the language, and i especially hate the way some devs use it without graceful degradation
<ericwood>
tons of people did, though
<RickHull>
everything looks like a js nail
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<wallerdev>
graceful degradation is dead
<wallerdev>
lol
<RickHull>
no, my phone's battery is dead
<RickHull>
because 14 million useless js scripts are running on it
<whitequark>
it needs to be signed into law that webdevs should use the shit they create without js enabled
<wallerdev>
nothing works on the website i work on without js
<wallerdev>
lol
* RickHull
barf
<ericwood>
that makes sense for a lot of pages but single page apps that's a silly requirement
<whitequark>
single page apps should die
<wallerdev>
i work on a mobile single page app website though
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<ericwood>
there's a time and place for single page apps and I think our definitions are a tad bit different
<ericwood>
I'm talking about things like trello, etc.
<ericwood>
where it's literally one page
<wallerdev>
yeah our site is one page, everything loads in dynamically
<RickHull>
it's fine if you have webapps that are implemented in js. but please, CMS is not a "webapp" i really would like to read your CONTENT
<wallerdev>
one page load, rest is through JS
<ericwood>
RickHull: amen
<RickHull>
like if it's a game, or a demo, something you might have been tempted to implement in a java applet 15 years ago
<RickHull>
fine, use that js hammer
<RickHull>
but not for online documents
<wallerdev>
yeah
<RickHull>
if you're a newspaper, or you can be generally categorized as producing content in the form of readable text
<RickHull>
you're doing it wrong (in js)
<wallerdev>
+1 on that
<wallerdev>
i think single page apps are fine for sites where you have to be logged in to do anything
<ericwood>
guys guys guys this isn't #javascript
<wallerdev>
it will be soon enough
<wallerdev>
;)
<RickHull>
ECMAscript you insensitive clod
<ericwood>
who started this
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* RickHull
points to wallerdev
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<wallerdev>
all im saying is js is the future
<RickHull>
of shite
<wallerdev>
ruby is going back to its 2005 level of interest
<RickHull>
doesn't dart or some other 4-letter word run in the browser?
<womble>
Someone needs to write jsruby
<whitequark>
i wrote it
<ericwood>
the trick is to not give a shit about what's popular
<ericwood>
whenever someone tells me "ruby isn't relevant anymore" I get annoyed
<wallerdev>
popular stuff is fun though, i like shiny new things haha
<ericwood>
sure
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<ericwood>
but don't judge a lgnague based on shininess
<ericwood>
unless it's solving warts from another one
<ericwood>
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<wallerdev>
oh i still love ruby as a language
<womble>
ericwood: "not give a shit about what's popular" -- you sound like a smug LISP weenie. <grin>
<wallerdev>
im just saying its not as popular anymore
<ericwood>
womble: I hate those guys :)
<drbrain>
someone put ruby in Mozilla back before Firefox was a thing
<wallerdev>
i still write any one off scripts in ruby
<ericwood>
wallerdev: no, it's just mature enough that people stop posting shit they made in it on hacker news
<womble>
ericwood: You and I can be smug ruby weenies instead.
<ericwood>
deal
<whitequark>
COBOL is still fairly popular
<whitequark>
especially compared to its visibility (which is essentially zero)
<RickHull>
COBOL ON CRUTCHES
<whitequark>
you deride it, but COBOL is a better thing to implement your software stack on than, say, C
<whitequark>
last time you heard of a CVE in COBOL? ;p
<whitequark>
(in something written in COBOL)
<RickHull>
show me a 10 line webserver in COBOL
<RickHull>
or a socket listener
<womble>
COBOL is the best demonstration of security by obscurity
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