apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.1.5; 2.0.0-p598; 1.9.3-p551: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste code on http://gist.github.com
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<nofxx_> Any idea what 'char_2_code' might mean? Related to countries and dial codes
<nofxx_> and it's not the ascii char for some code (which doesn't make sense anyway)
<nofxx_> only this umbers ... 1, 8, 10, 14, 22 ... and it's not lost related =P
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<wmoxam> nofxx_: s'up
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<nofxx_> wmoxam, hey there! can I discuss with you some topics about phonie?
<nofxx_> 1. add national dialing prefix as a non capture, pretty common 0, as you did on #area_code_regex, but it's not on the other matchers. Going to add, and instead of 0 get the data from the yml
<nofxx_> 2. why and why not remove char_2_code
<nofxx_> 3. may I fix the utf8 errors on the data file?
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<nofxx_> 4. remove name? only iso 3366, and if you really need name you can use it from iso-country-names, will get that in the language you want
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<nofxx_> or better yet... enable issues hehe
<wmoxam> nofxx_: ooh, yeah I should do that
<wmoxam> I was just reading through your points
<wmoxam> done!
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<wmoxam> nofxx_: I'll try to review your pull request soon, likely this weekend
<wmoxam> 1-3 sound reasonable, char_2_code is just a holdover from carr/phone and AFAICT there is no reason to keep it
<wmoxam> and I'm open to #4
<wmoxam> will think on it some more
<nofxx_> wmoxam, cool, gonna try to make it independent commits (reset to your master and branch right?)
<nofxx_> independent pull requests*
<nofxx_> that first pull request has only brazil, triple checked but going to add more tests... another point I was going to discuss a nice failing method, the parse_test evil brother
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<wmoxam> nofxx_: ok cool, sounds great
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<nofxx_> wmoxam, ok, donne it all on issues, easier to discuss
<deryl> Merry Christmas to all! And a happy early New Year!
<nofxx_> xmas... home alone 1,2,3 on tv every day...
<nofxx_> wmoxam, ah! the most important thing... nothing in the code perspective, but hours on merge if done badly: rubocop -a it up. Need to do it ... hehe
<el_bastardo> classy mccollin caulker stuff... Do you also get to see schwarzenegger as "turboman"?
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<nofxx_> el_bastardo, hehe, now I remember why I dont watch tv
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<nofxx_> Why isn't there String#any? is there a ticket for it I could up vote? heh
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<godd2> nofxx_ what would it do?
<godd2> you can always do str.chars.any?
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<hakunin_> wonder if you can define an operator in ruby such that it would short circuit, like || does
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<hakunin_> (experimenting with ternary logic)
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<hakunin_> hm i think i might have an idea…
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<hakunin_> no i don't
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<nofxx_> godd2, it would do chars.any, exactly. well, it keeps least surprise, "this collection has any" string == collection of chars
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<godd2> nofxx_ conceptually, there is debate as to whether or not thinking about strings as collections is a good model
<nofxx_> talking about strings, what's the easy way to do '12345' -> '1(2) 3.45' string formating?
<nofxx_> godd2, what's the other model?
<godd2> I would argue that a string has something more than a mere collection, as the order of its members is more important than, say, a collection of user objects
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<nofxx_> disagree, lots of stuff rely on arrays having an order
<nofxx_> hence stuff like OrderedHash prior 1.9
<godd2> for efficiency yes, but a string isn't a bag of characters
<nofxx_> to bring such useful functionality to hash
<godd2> a string's characters' order has meaning, an array of users' order doesn't
<nofxx_> a bag with semantics... agree, but that's a point in my opinion pro-having-any-on-string ;)
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<nofxx_> godd2, if I ordered by some attribute the order has meaning
<godd2> but I'm saying that it's not a bag with semantics.
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<nofxx_> hehe
<godd2> nofxx_ yes but a string ingerently has meaning in its order
<godd2> inherently*
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<godd2> so when you think about the characters of a string qua characters, yes it's a bag, but qua members of a string it loses bagness
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<nofxx_> I agree, but I don't see how that is con-any ...
<godd2> I'm not telling you what you should think or what you should do, I'm just offering an alternative argument
<godd2> as for being con-any it would be because in that sense, there is no atomic subset of a string for which any would be sensible
<godd2> remember, for any you're asking about members of the collection having particular properties. so you'd have to impose a notion of membership
<godd2> and you do that with chars
<godd2> but I can see your point that the default "member" of a string is a character.
<godd2> but then maybe your string should be a character array (or something else) in the first place ;)
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<nofxx_> godd2, the opposite is more common, have bytes in array to pack/unpack and using string solely for chars
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<nofxx_> also: the number of bytes aint equal chars, or might, but can one be empty and the other not?
<hakunin> string as char array is not very encoding friendly
<hakunin> (excuse the intrusion)
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<godd2> nofxx_ I would say that composing a string out of bytes in an array is an implementation detail, so by the time you have a string, its irrelevant where it came from.
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<godd2> since, presumably that array of numbers came from somewhere outside
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<godd2> I guess what I mean is, if you went to the trouble of making it a string, you wanted it to be a string, not a bag of characters.
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<Technodrome> ruby on mac, whats popular now? RVM still or did something else take over?
* apeiros_ still happily uses rvm
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apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.2.0; 2.1.5; 2.0.0-p598; 1.9.3-p551: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste code on http://gist.github.com
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<chris2> wow. rexml is still in stdlib
<chris2> does anyone use that?
<whitequark> probably
<whitequark> wheee, parser 2.2.0 https://rubygems.org/gems/parser
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<yorickpeterse> chris2: Yeah it comes freely with exploits
<yorickpeterse> although the most recent ones have been patches
<chris2> ;)
<yorickpeterse> * patched
<chris2> yeah
<chris2> so, 2.2 apparently doesnt run doxygen anymore?
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<darix> yorickpeterse: which xml parser library didnt have an exploit this year?
<darix> i think most bugs come from a pretty relax spec of SGML
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<yorickpeterse> darix: Oga
<chris2> darix: expat?
<yorickpeterse> disregard doctype parsing, acquire no exploits
<chris2> 2012
<chris2> but there is a cve from 2013 which has been released in 2014
<darix> but still no upstream release for the CVE it seems
<chris2> that idiot that allowed DTD in XML
<chris2> could have saved endless hassle
<yorickpeterse> s/allowed DTD in/
<yorickpeterse> clearly JSON is the best thing ever
<yorickpeterse> and oh wait we now have JSON schemas, JSON hyperlinking, etc
<yorickpeterse> so it's basically almost XML minus the annoying syntax
<yorickpeterse> and minus comments
<chris2> json certainly has a lot less hairsplitting
<chris2> i think apart from the unicode stuff, not really
<yorickpeterse> it certainly is easier to parse
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<whitequark> except you can't represent dates in JSON
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: neither can you in XML
<whitequark> of course you can
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<chris2> Time.now.to_F
<chris2> s/F/f/
<whitequark> in XML, you have a standard way to say "this string should be parsed as ISO8601
<whitequark> in JSON, what the fuck is this string?
<yorickpeterse> There's no native date type, in both cases you have to stringify it
<whitequark> chris2: that's buggy. it returns local time
<whitequark> but thank you for an amazing illustration of the problem I am highlighting
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: with any serialization format whatsoever, you have to turn the date into a stream of bytes
<whitequark> good formats allow you to say what this stream of bytes *is*.
<yorickpeterse> ...that's exactly what I meant with "not a native date type"
<whitequark> ?
<yorickpeterse> Also, XML can only do it when the schema defines "this is a date"
<yorickpeterse> You can do the exact same thing with json-schema
<whitequark> show me an example of a format which has a native date type
<chris2> >> Time.at(0.0)
<chris2> => 1970-01-01 01:00:00 +0100
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: {"number": 10}
<yorickpeterse> here's 3 of them
<chris2> that is not local...
<whitequark> >> [Time.now.to_f, Time.now.utc.to_f]
<whitequark> fucking bot
<yorickpeterse> yeah bot is borken
<chris2> same number here?
<whitequark> hm, right, same number
<whitequark> okay
<chris2> apart from ms ;)
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: except no one uses json-schema
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: except that's not true
<whitequark> who does?
<yorickpeterse> http://www.stsci.edu/ uses it, my employer uses it, https://github.com/ruby-json-schema/json-schema apparently at least 384 people are interested in/using this
<whitequark> hmm
<yorickpeterse> certainly not as much as XML schemas, but that's because it's not baked in the language/standard
<whitequark> my complaint exactly
<whitequark> you came to the same thing XML preached, except fifteen years too late. or something
<yorickpeterse> and in a much more sane way
<yorickpeterse> Schemas themselves are fine, the syntax/cruft of how XML does it is not
<chris2> rng was really good for xml
<chris2> but came much too late
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<yorickpeterse> right fukit, time to play video games
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<yorickpeterse> ho ho ho getting flamed online, this is going to be amazing
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<darix> opensuse 2.2.0 package submitted
<darix> yorickpeterse: it is always a delight to be called a cheater when you punish some noobs
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<comm64> is their a preference to require vs require_relative
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<apeiros_> require is proper
<apeiros_> require_relative is admitting defeat and not understanding the load mechanism.
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<comm64> so if 'File.exist?' checks to see if a file exists, how would you check if a file doesn't exist...'!File.exist?' ?
<comm64> apparently that works
<comm64> probably not the best way to do it I imagine
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<yorickpeterse> apeiros_: I'd argue otherwise
<yorickpeterse> require_relative is useful for e.g. gems where you dont want to mess with $LOAD_PATH during development
<apeiros_> yorickpeterse: you just admitted not understanding the load mechanism :-p
<yorickpeterse> arguebly Ruby's require system is broken in the first place, but that's a different story
<apeiros_> -Ilib
<yorickpeterse> that's exactly what I don't want to do during development
<yorickpeterse> granted you could smack that in your test/spec helper
<yorickpeterse> What I like about require_relative is that you ensure you're loading the right files, no matter what $LOAD_PATH says
<apeiros_> the executable (whichever it is) is responsible for knowing where stuff is. that includes setting up $LOAD_PATH.
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<apeiros_> it's NOT a library's or a library file's duty to know where stuff is. and require_relative is exactly that: knowing where stuff is.
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<pipework> yorickpeterse: Broken about paths, requiring into the global namespace, or something more interesting?
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<weaksauce> anyone able to install version 2.2 with ruby-install on yosemite?
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<havenwood> weaksauce: yup, installed ruby-2.2.0 on Yosemite with ruby-install successfully.
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<havenwood> weaksauce: running into issues? i had success just running: ruby-install ruby 2.2.0 --md5 d03cd4690fec1fff81d096d1c1255fde
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<weaksauce> havenwood not sure. it just said unsupported.
<weaksauce> havenwood ah cool. it seems to be working now
<havenwood> weaksauce: aha, i betcha you did `ruby-2.2.0` instead of `ruby 2.2.0`! I do that myself.
<weaksauce> actually I did the latter first
<weaksauce> maybe I jumped the gun on them supporting it?
<havenwood> weaksauce: ruby-install supports Rubies before they're added. you can also run `make update` in the ruby-install directory before a `sudo make install` to fetch the latest definitions from ruby-versions until the --update flag is added. :)
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<weaksauce> just looked at my command history. I tried ruby-install 2.2.0
<havenwood> weaksauce: ah, that's it
<weaksauce> so it was missing the ruby
<weaksauce> thanks for your help havenwood
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<havenwood> weaksauce: you're welcome. there're tentative plans to make the input a bit more flexible in 1.0 so ruby-2.2.0 etc would work. happy 2.2ing!
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<weaksauce> ah, cool!
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<whitequark> apeiros_: but that's absurd
<whitequark> you're saying that a solution that depends on global mutable state is a better fit for local resolution (of parts of a library)
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<apeiros_> that it's global & usually mutable is not part of the reasoning whitequark
<apeiros_> in the opposite. the reasoning goes towards not mutating it and not using it globally.
<whitequark> huh?
<apeiros_> libraries should not mutate $LOAD_PATH
<whitequark> sure
<whitequark> how exactly is require_relative bad for requiring a part of library that you know will be there?
<whitequark> require_relative for a component of yourself, require for an external depedency.
<apeiros_> you add knowledge
<apeiros_> "file X must be relative to file Y"
<apeiros_> instead of "I need <x>"
<apeiros_> stronger coupling
<whitequark> exactly, stronger coupling
<apeiros_> you usually don't want to couple things if there's no benefit.
<whitequark> there's a downside to not coupling things: name clases
<whitequark> and there's no downside to coupling.
<whitequark> *name clashes
<whitequark> I mean really, the only thing that could happen if you *not* use _relative is that you load something from elsewhere in $LOAD_PATH and not from your library tree
<whitequark> when, exactly, is this desirable?
<apeiros_> "there's no downside to coupling", um, yes, there is. but it's midnight here and I'm not up for a basic programming practices debate
<whitequark> more like architectural fetishes
<godd2> whitequark what do you mean by coupling?
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<|jemc|> what problem does loosening the coupling between files within your library solve?
<|jemc|> even if you avoid require_relative, if you change your library directory structure, the path you give to require would have to change anyway
<|jemc|> in some ways require_relative is even more flexible - you could for example change the toplevel name of your library without affecting every internal require except one or two.
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<|jemc|> wanting to eschew require_relative in favor of require only is like wanting to navigate through directories in your terminal giving only absolute paths to the `cd` command
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<whitequark> yup
<apeiros_> wow, that "comparison" is so far off it doesn't even make sense.
<apeiros_> require <id>. require_relative <path>. you're cementing that code loading must be files. but granted, ruby makes so little of its code loading system, that it probably won't even matter any time soon.
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<whitequark> I specifically do not want anything else to inject itself into the loading process of my library, and you somehow are arguing against that
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<apeiros_> I say your library has no business concerning itself with the loading mechanism
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<whitequark> a library that's distributed as multiple files must.