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<mildfate>
I've got ruby installed globally on my system, but in order to do some local stuff I've installed rbenv. But, despite it being correctly in my path, when I try to do the installs it's still using my system ruby. How do I solve this?
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<pipecloud>
I use chruby, it doesn't require shims or rehashing
<pipecloud>
With ruby-install
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<zastern>
Potentially silly question, but anybody know of a good doc on how to pipe text INTO a ruby script? I'm not having good luck with The Googles.
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<zastern>
ah STDIN maybe
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<zastern>
hmm, not in an obvious way
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<havenwood>
zastern: are you wanting to get input from stdin?
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<tropicalmug>
is there a way to run python code from ruby? i've seen http://rubypython.rubyforge.org/ but i'd love to know if anyone has actually used it.
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<pipecloud>
tropicalmug: open3.
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<tropicalmug>
pipecloud thank you :)
<tropicalmug>
{◕ ◡ ◕}
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<iio7>
I wanted to install a ruby program (have no ruby experience), but when I run it I get the following error: "Invalid gemspec in [/var/lib/gems/1.8/specifications/ZenTest-4.9.5.gemspec]: Illformed requirement ["< 3.0, >= 1.8"]", how do I solve that?
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<pipecloud>
iio7: I'd upgrade to the latest ruby.
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<bahar_>
hey guys, i'm on project euler problem #3 and have a question
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<bahar_>
it's "find the largest prime factor of number x"
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<bahar_>
i've been going back and forth, because what i've built so far, if i input the number 13195, will return 5, 7, 13, 29 (which are correct!) but also adds in 35 65 and 91 (which shouldn't be there
<bahar_>
i put in a cheat, lines 10-12, "prime array.each do |x|; if x.prime; array <<x" but i was hoping to fix the program to just return primes only in the first place in lines 5-7... any ideas?
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<dylandog>
anyone can suggest to me any book for learn ruby for web?
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<Jason>
hi all - i'm trying to install spree via gem install spree.
<Jason>
i run in to a strange error.
<Jason>
activemerchant-1.42.2 requires activesupport (< 5.0.0, >= 2.3.14) but it conflicted: Activated activesupport-4.0.2 instead of (= 4.1.0.beta1) via: rails-4.1.0.beta1, deface-1.0.0, spree_core-2.1.3, spree-2.1.3
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<unstable>
ERROR: Could not find a valid gem 'qtruby4' (>= 0), here is why: Found qtruby4 (2.1.0), but was for platform mswin32
<unstable>
I wanted to play around with userland ruby GUI apps for fun. Is this commonly done? or insane?
<unstable>
I know large parts of ubuntu use python with some widget library.
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<dseitz>
The problem with Python/Ruby as primary language is that the tooklit bindings fall out of spec quite often, sometimes projects just die without notice
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<dseitz>
Usually these happen when GTK or Qt make major version transitions and the contributors the bindings projects can feel a bit overwhelmed [it'll literally be like starting over]
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<dseitz>
JRuby might be a nice option still
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<pipecloud>
Shoes4 is jruby and while it's not 100% implemented, it's pretty neat.
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<dseitz>
oh cool
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<dseitz>
RubyMotion is fun to play with; but it ties you to one platform
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<jalcine>
unstable: ubuntu uses qt with python or python-gtk2
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<unstable>
jalcine: right, are there people doing the same thing with ruby?
<jalcine>
not that much ruby in there
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<jalcine>
not so much
<jalcine>
afaik
<jalcine>
there's a bit of work with ruby in KDE/Qt with SMOKE but it's probably a bit behind (using Qt 4.7 as opposed to Qt 4.8.4)
<dseitz>
qtbindings is still being maintained
<dseitz>
and suports 4.8.5 I think
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<unstable>
Well if Canonical is using pyqt all over the place in their gui, there is a good change the toolkit bindings will stay up to date in spec quite often.
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<unstable>
Though if no one is updating ruby, it seems ill advised to use that.
<unstable>
egg/chicken
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<RubyPanther>
The last thing I want is software that gets a lot of updates
<RubyPanther>
choose yer features already, I say.
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<quazimodo>
specifically, it's a set of images that I read into memory, send to image magick convert, then read back into memory. this is the only point I have to hold onto it
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<pipecloud>
So you're not persisting to disk between converting it?
<pipecloud>
Is there any point to reading the files into memory just to pass them to your imagemagick/
<pipecloud>
?
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<quazimodo>
pipecloud: probably not, and maybe I'll remove that from the program. But aside from solving the pracitcal problems I really do want to know how to 'deal' with blobs in general
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<quazimodo>
from your questions its clear that I don't know enough to ask sensical questions, so I'll keep reading
<pipecloud>
quazimodo: It depends on how you intend to use them. The first part is reading them into memory or streaming the chunks. See File vs IO.
<pipecloud>
I think File even has the chunky stuff.
<quazimodo>
yeah maybe streaming it into pipes makes more sense sometimes
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<pipecloud>
Well, pipes or not.
<shevy>
to pipes or not to pipes
<shevy>
that is the question
<quazimodo>
yep
<quazimodo>
see I thought there might be a data type specifically for dealing with binary data in the form of hexadecimal
<pipecloud>
Why would you care unless you're operating on that data?
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<pipecloud>
You aren't, you're just (for some unknowable reason) reading it into memory and passing it into another process only to have the result read back into memory (for yet again some unknowable reason)
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<shevy>
now you made me curious about the unknowable reason
<shevy>
I wanna know!
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<Nilium>
The unknowable reason is kitties.
<pipecloud>
kitties with itty bitty...
<Nilium>
Paws.
<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
you know a lot about kitties
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<pontiki>
the itty bitty kitty committee rules all
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<rjhunter>
the witty ditty about the gritty city is on the settee
<pontiki>
++
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<rjhunter>
(composed, admittedly, with some help from `egrep '^[^aeiou]+it+(i|ee|y)$' /usr/share/dict/words`)
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<shevy>
cheaaaaaaater
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<Gestahlt>
Hi
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<robertjpayne>
While developing a gem is there any easy way to sort of use the same workflow you would as if the gem were installed?
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<MrZYX>
if the target application is using bundler, there's the path option
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<MrZYX>
if not, manually modify $LOAD_PATH to include it
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<kwertie>
is there some sort of operation which would allow me to more concisely express this? new_value = get_value(); if new_value ne old_value then print "new"; else print "same"; end; old_value = new_value
<kwertie>
how would you directly translate that example?
<kwertie>
i can't see how the ternary op would come into it
<kwertie>
oh, hang on
<shevy>
dunno, I dont use the ternary operator myself
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<Hanmac1>
something like print(new_value != old_value ? "new" : "same")
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<shevy>
you wanted to be more concise so we need to find a solution where you can chop off chars from your code here ;)
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<shevy>
god
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<shevy>
it sucks that the first one to register at rubygems.org gets to decide which name to use
<shevy>
and then prevent everyone else from being able to use that name
<shevy>
:(
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<deepy>
shevy: can you think of another fair system?
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<shevy>
deepy sure. aliases. the first one gets to register picks that name, but everyone else gets optional entries where they can specify to use another project instead. that may require an additional field in a .gemspec
<kwertie>
How best to actually go about making a GUI for a Ruby app?
<kwertie>
There's Shoes, but I don't know alternatives
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<shevy>
shoes4 depends on java/jruby
<shevy>
that's no longer the original spirit of shoes :(
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<kwertie>
It's the only GUI framework I've come across, still, that doesn't seem completely ugly
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<shevy>
the ruby GUI bindings are not really great. ruby-gnome is ok... there is (ruby)qt qtruby... dunno how that progresses, from my perspective it died. FXRuby died about 4 years ago ... wxruby bindings aren't maintained since years (save for Hanmac1 here who tries to write bindings)
<shevy>
and ruby-tk always looked ugly
<kwertie>
I don't get how a language as popular as ruby doesn't have any decent gui stuff going on
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<shevy>
because you need people who can code in C or C++
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<Hanmac>
shevy i already added new Dialogs today ...
<kwertie>
that must restrict Ruby's use cases tremendously
<shevy>
kwertie well
<kwertie>
and therefore its uptake as a language
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<shevy>
people who know C or C++ tend to work for things that make money
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<ericwood>
that stereotype is a crock of shit
<jmaister>
Hi! I've got a file, settings.rb which contains http://pastebin.com/QpGT3rkj and want to read this into a hash. I've been thinking of doing it like this http://pastebin.com/mm4c26Ha . This doesn't seem to work. Any help?
<apeiros_unid>
s/class/module/ - yeah, that'd be nice
<apeiros_unid>
I'm amazed time and time again how people can fail at indenting *so hard*
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<apeiros_unid>
it's like "spaces? what's that?"
<shevy>
olivier_bK you must make that method known
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<olivier_bK>
?
<shevy>
olivier_bK but is it attached to a class, so you must make an instance
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<shevy>
olivier_bK your code does not work because def putoli is defined within the namespace of ConnectMysql
<shevy>
*class ConnectMysql
<shevy>
so either use ConnectMysql.new.putoli or define a class method ConnectMysql.putoli or define a method called putoli that does one of the two ways mentioned
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<olivier_bK>
shevy, thank why i didn't' guess that before :(
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<jmaister>
apeiros_unid: Ok, I tried another approach, but it still doesn't work. Could you please have a look at this? According to what I did in irb, it should work http://pastebin.com/BwziLswR
<jmaister>
I think this should be valid at least
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<apeiros_unid>
jmaister: API keys in pastes are not a good idea ;-p
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<apeiros_unid>
and please, don't use eval for string interpolation
<jmaister>
dammit
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<apeiros_unid>
"foo#{variable}"
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<apeiros_unid>
jmaister: so what's your issue with the pasted code?
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<jmaister>
I'm not quite able to identify it, but my config isn't made avalible to my plugin, so I wanted to at least check if the ruby was ok
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<jmaister>
It's kind of hard to debug
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<jmaister>
Ah, it seems options is still empty
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<jmaister>
better grab some food and try again. thanks :)
<apeiros_unid>
jmaister: the loading part is not difficult to debug
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<apeiros_unid>
replace c.plugins.options with a plain variable and you can easily run it without cinch.
<apeiros_unid>
well, and drop the `debug` call, or replace it with raise or whatever
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<apeiros_unid>
btw., Dir["./lib/cinch/data/*.config.json"].each do |file| -> Dir.glob("./lib/cinch/data/*.config.json") do |file|
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<Underbyte>
hey, would anyone be willing to help me out with a phusion passenger + apache + sinatra/ruby2.0 setup issue i'm having?
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<Underbyte>
everything seems to be installed correctly, but apache keeps insisting on serving the rackbase URI like its a static file.
<Underbyte>
i'm pretty much stumped.
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<lessless>
hey folks, can someone explain me the mechanics of [1,2,3].each.with_index.with_object([]) { |(obj, index), accum| puts index} ?
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<lessless>
especially why first two parameters are grouped with braces?
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<apeiros_unid>
lessless: try it without and see ;-)
<lessless>
apeiros_unid, I tried, but I cant understand the mechanics :)
<apeiros_unid>
what did you see, when you tried?
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<lessless>
apeiros_unid, when I added #with_object to the #each_with_index, the arguments of last was coupled in the array
<KK4MGV>
could somebody point me to an "official" style guide that would cover things like do end vs {}, whitespace conventions, etc?
<apeiros_unid>
lessless: correct
<shevy>
KK4MGV there is none
<KK4MGV>
there must be some informally agreed upon convention though, no?
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<shevy>
KK4MGV {} binds more tightly than do/end and you may have to use () in case you want to pass arguments to the method called
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<Mon_Ouie>
olivier_bK: "passing a variable to another class" doesn't make sense
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<xibalba>
KK4MGV, The book : eloquent ruby
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<shevy>
KK4MGV no. the pickaxe tried to establish one by stating "use do/end for multiline, for one-liners use {}" but the ruby parser does not enforce that so people can ignore it as they wish
<lessless>
apeiros_unid, I know, that a, b = [1,2] splits array without any braces
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<KK4MGV>
the pickaxe?
<lessless>
apeiros_unid, can you please give another example of this kind of usage of the braces?
<Mon_Ouie>
KK4MGV: There are different ones. There's the one shevy mentioned and also another one that uses do … end for side-effect and { … } for the rest; also, if you're chaining blocks, you'd probably prefer { … }
<shevy>
hmm interesting
<lessless>
i.e. to split array with braces
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<shevy>
it seems as if the pickaxe is no longer called the pickaxe
<shevy>
"This book is the only complete reference for Ruby 1.9, the very latest version of Ruby. (If you are still using Ruby 1.8, you'll want to check out the original PickAxe.)"
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<shevy>
it's literally mentioned there!
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<shevy>
nowadays I store things in my local knowledge base
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<KK4MGV>
is there a ruby equivalent of k&r for C or the lama book for perl, etc.?
<KK4MGV>
would that be the pickaxe?
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<shevy>
yeah
<shevy>
except that k&r is very short and terse
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<KK4MGV>
but it's considered "the book"
<shevy>
the pickaxe has like the whole stdlib of ruby documented inside of it
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<Mon_Ouie>
olivier_bK: I still don't know what you mean by that
<Mon_Ouie>
You pass object to methods through their arguments
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<KK4MGV>
well, i can use the website as a library reference (probably more up to date, probably easier to navigate), i was more looking for a solid conceptual foundation for ruby
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<shevy>
I dunno
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<shevy>
the best way to ruby is to start writing things
<shevy>
the main things you'll need most of the time are (a) class Array (b) class String (c) class Hash ... that's about it really
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<atma111>
Does anyone speak Spanish? need help
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<Underbyte>
Baxter! tu sabes que yo no hablo español!
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<shevy>
atma111 mi gato es un perro
<atma111>
lel
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<atma111>
bueno tengo instalado squid3 en ubuntu server y queria instalar nginx para guardar los videos de youtube
<atma111>
pero cuando instalo todo reinicio el squid3 y ya no tengo internet en las otras pcs
<atma111>
le pongo el signo a esto q le puse al squid.conf #url_rewrite_program /etc/nginx/nginx.rb y ya tengo internet de nuevo
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<Underbyte>
anyone feel like helping me out with an apache/ruby/sinatra/passenger problem i'm having?
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<Aloysius1>
Heyo...I got a "block (2 levels) in <my routine>" where "<my routine>" is a function running two independent threads. Googling this error doesn't seem to turn up what it actually is...
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<shevy>
atma111 eh some guy has problems there
<shevy>
pongo pongo problems
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<benzrf>
one thing i can definitely say is awesome about ruby far beyond python
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<benzrf>
DEFAULT BUILTIN LIBRARY
<atma111>
le pongo el signo a esto q le puse al squid.conf #url_rewrite_program /etc/nginx/nginx.rb y ya tengo internet de nuevo
<benzrf>
i wrote some python again yesterday and i felt like i was in a barren wasteland of functions & methods by comparison
<benzrf>
._.
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<atma111>
creo q es por la version el script para le version que tengo no funciona
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<Underbyte>
still need help with a passenger issue, have conf files ready to go if anyone wants to take a shot
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<Part_>
hi
<benzrf>
hello Part_
<benzrf>
hows it going
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<shevy>
die
<shevy>
I mean
<shevy>
hi benzrf
<benzrf>
D:
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<shevy>
Part_ is soon gone
<Part_>
hi benzrf :)
<benzrf>
man what a freudian slip
<shevy>
yeah I should not too often let out my thoughts :(
<Part_>
hi shevy
<shevy>
benzrf, have you finally made gems on rubygems.org
<benzrf>
no
<benzrf>
i still have v mixed feelings about ruby
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<shevy>
let them out man
<benzrf>
the layer you use in everyday programming is like 80% highly superior to python
<benzrf>
but the last 20% drives me up the wall
<Part_>
I have a string with a path like this d:/music/mp3/ What is the best way to check if the first directory is music ?
<benzrf>
and the underlying semantics...
<benzrf>
god so messy
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<shevy>
benzrf the cool thing is that one can ignore most of these things in ruby and only use what is cool
<Part_>
shevy: let me check
<benzrf>
shevy: maybe for YOU
<benzrf>
and jesus christ scoping and imports
<benzrf>
ruby is terrifyingly awful about scoping and impots
<benzrf>
*imports
<benzrf>
holy shit
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<jxport>
benzrf: in which ways?
<benzrf>
jxport: one example...
<benzrf>
requiring sinatra will override your Date class.
<benzrf>
the old one was useless, so it's not a big deal
<benzrf>
but
<shevy>
hehe
<benzrf>
the fact that that is _POSSIBLE_ and _HAPPENS_ in a _POPULAR FRAMEWORK_
<benzrf>
god damn does that reek of bad design
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<shevy>
how would you solve the problem when you wish to provide flexibility and power to the user
<benzrf>
python still rules the universe in terms of import systems
<shevy>
"you may not overrule stdlib" *waves hand like jedi knight*
<benzrf>
-smug-
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<benzrf>
shevy: no, you may not override anything outside of your namespace unless the importing party specifies so!!
<shevy>
dictatorship!!!
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<shevy>
I fight for freedom like mel gibson in braveheart!!!!
<shevy>
DOWN WITH THE PANTS NOW!!!!!!
<benzrf>
a single shared namespace for _EVERY FILE RUN_ is absurdly idiotic!!
<shevy>
hehe
<jxport>
BTW - if I'm triggering an exception in a test, and its rescue block is outputs debug info/warning -- how can I avoid that happening when using rspec?
<shevy>
(close eyes and wait until the info passed the screen)
<benzrf>
NOT TO MENTION that it is freaking impossible for readers of code to figure out where any given method or class is from without a good search tool
<jxport>
benzrf: there's a single shared namespace..? I did not realise this
<jxport>
shevy: was that to me? I don't know whether that's normal from testing
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<benzrf>
one awesome feature of python's import system is that you usually specify the names of the things you import
<shevy>
well there is .owner and .source_location and method() and method_source
<shevy>
benzrf see what is bad in ruby? you'll never get people to agree on anything!
<shevy>
like what amount of indent is the right one to use, for instance
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<benzrf>
2sp
<benzrf>
duh
<terrellt>
...Two spaces isn't agreed on?
<shevy>
hehe
<shevy>
if you ask me sure
<benzrf>
python uses 4sp but i use tabs because im a REBEL
<terrellt>
That's just project specific stuff, you define that at the beginning.
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<terrellt>
Write it down, that's just good practice.
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<benzrf>
what i really want is a language with ruby's pleasantness of everyday usage, Io's pleasantness of underlying semantics and metaprogramming, and python's import system
<benzrf>
then i will live in programming bliss maybe
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<benzrf>
i should probably learn scala at some point
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<shevy>
don't you need java for scala?
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<benzrf>
it is a jvm languages
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<benzrf>
*languag
<benzrf>
e
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<atma111>
como puedo saber q version de ruby tengo instalado en mi ubuntu server
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<shevy>
hmm I thought there is more... there is an option for a .gemspec file where you can set the markup you want to use AFAIK. or you could just use yard http://yardoc.org/
<benzrf>
shevy: so i was thinking i could make something sinatra-ish but for irc bots instead of web sites
<benzrf>
for my gem
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<benzrf>
then you will stop harassing me ?
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<benzrf>
shevy: i am now looking at your rubygems profile
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<benzrf>
what do you do, put every half-made project of yours on there
<benzrf>
>:P
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<nyarlshub>
shevy, i thought rdoc required the use of SimpleMarkup
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<benzrf>
shevy: oh it looks like somebody made the irc bot thing first NEVER MIND
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<rhys>
when i run 'pstree -ac' the ruby threads are marked \040 \040 repeating.
<rhys>
where htop displays them correctly
<rhys>
does anyone know why this would be?
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<shevy>
nyarlshub not entirely sure. I stopped using rdoc like 6 years ago or so
<nyarlshub>
what do you use instead?
<shevy>
hmm I tend to write extensive tutorials
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<shevy>
for my local use, some .cgi scripts display the things and info I need
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<shevy>
if it's for other people, I usually put instructions into simple markdown .md files
<nyarlshub>
hmm
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<nyarlshub>
question on a completely unrelated subject:
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<nyarlshub>
in vim (and various vim-emulation modes in emacs) you can jump to the corresponding bracket or brace that's under the cursor position by typing %
<nyarlshub>
is there anything like that for do/end delimiters in ruby?
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<nyarlshub>
hmm.. looks like the "matchit" plugin in vim is a crude first attempt at getting that functionality
<nyarlshub>
but, "Actually, it doesn't even seem to be matching ruby syntax at all - it's just matching indent levels. Since I use foldmethod=indent, this is... fairly useless."
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<atma111>
I can uninstall ruby 1.8.7 to install ruby 1.9.1??
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<shevy>
atma111 YES
<shevy>
or use something like gobolinux
<shevy>
all programs have their own versioned directory
<atma111>
which is the command estoy usando ubuntu server
<shevy>
then you never have to remove old versions
<shevy>
ask ubuntu!
<shevy>
ubuntu do not give you a simple way
<shevy>
Hanmac1, can you help atma111 - but answer in spanish :)
<atma111>
T.T
<shevy>
Hanmac1 uses ubuntu, atma111
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<atma111>
Hanmac1 usted puede ayudar quiero desinstalar ruby
<atma111>
Hanmac1 estoy usando ubuntu server
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<shevy>
atma111 if you use apt-get, ubuntu will usually only install one version
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<shevy>
that's a big reason why things like rbenv or rvm exist in the first place - because you can not easily mix versions on distributions like ubuntu
<Baluse>
has anyone installed ruby on rasberri ?
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<atma111>
no work apt get
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<atma111>
0 updates found
<mordocai>
Looking for some ruby + emacs users here. Anyone know why emacs would highlight syntax interpolation in this way http://picpaste.com/syntax_screenshot.png? Is there a good reason? I don't see why the character before the # would be highlighted.
<mordocai>
There didn't appear to be any rubyists in #emacs :P
<shevy>
benzrf btw I have so many gems because I found it easier to turn the smaller ones into standalone gems, while continuing to work on the larger ones
<shevy>
what is plumbum
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<atma111>
in windows is as easy to uninstall programs
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<benzrf>
shevy: who was that bash @
<shevy>
benzrf I dunno but I <3 that
<benzrf>
:D
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<shevy>
I actually typo a lot, but before I press enter for IRC, I usually edit my lines
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<benzrf>
ah
<shevy>
that sentence above had 3 errors which I corrected just now... my fingers have their own brain :P
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<Mars`>
if you're getting data from an api (i.e. twitter) and don't plan on caching it in a database, should you create a model for it?
<jalcine>
what's the point of a model if you're not storing it into a DB or a cache?
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<jxport>
shevy: thanks
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<shevy>
I like models. They tend to be good looking.
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<Mars`>
jalcine: idk. so I can abstract away all the GET's and POSTS and data validation stuff from the controller. But maybe a model isn't the best way to go
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<Mars`>
in other frameworks, I might do like a Client library or something, that would handle that sort of stuff.
<jxport>
I like my models skinny
<h0rrorvacui>
jxport what do you mean like everything in the controller or do you abstract domain objects?
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<h0rrorvacui>
extract* not abstract
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<jxport>
h0rrorvacui: I was talking about another kind of model -- but I would agree with abstracting domain objects
<h0rrorvacui>
ohh you was making a joke :P
<canton7>
if you're going to be manupulating that data, yes I'd represent it as an object, and that'll turn into a model if it needs to be one
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<jxport>
h0rrorvacui: I like my jokes to have truth on multiple levels
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<cj>
all I've got in the root directory is doc/ lib/ Gemfile Gemfile.lock lib README.md foo.rb
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<cj>
I'm thinking it was tarred up, scp'd and then untarred.
<benzrf>
cj: then turning it into a gem is not going to help unless you choose to switch to that deployment strategy
<cj>
I suppose I could reproduce this awful implementation decision. ;-)
<cj>
but first, lunch!
<benzrf>
cj: Gemfile is just the dependency list
<cj>
it would probably be a better thing to do ;-)
<h0rrorvacui>
cj just git repo the shit and git pull on them all :P
<benzrf>
cj: if you use 'bundle install' in the project dir it will install all the project's deps from the gemfile
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<shevy>
cj, yeah this is a typical layout
<benzrf>
h0rrorvacui: Git Is Not A Deployment Tool
<benzrf>
:-D
<cj>
they *are* in a git repo... that would probably work well.
<h0rrorvacui>
true
<cj>
benzrf: SURE IT IS!
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* cj
ducks
<cj>
but food!
<benzrf>
alright
<benzrf>
>project not done
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<benzrf>
>leaving the comp
<benzrf>
clearly unlet
<benzrf>
*leet
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<benzrf>
cj: have you seen Ansible? ive been looking at it and it looks super awesome and maybe what you want
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<benzrf>
cj: it is a configuration management thingy [or can be used as one] but it works by running commands and stuff remotely, so there's no client software needed
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<benzrf>
you only need to set up anything on the controlling system
<benzrf>
B)
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<benzrf>
[assuming the target systems have python 2, which every mainstream distro does afaik]
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<nyarlshub>
puppet is like ansible, but ruby-based
<h0rrorvacui>
makes me think of puppet and capistrano
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<nyarlshub>
and chef
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<benzrf>
yes it is in the same class
<h0rrorvacui>
and chef yeah
<benzrf>
but ansible, as noted, needs no client software
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<benzrf>
you can just install it on the controller and youre done with setup
<nyarlshub>
salt is another, similar python-based tool
<benzrf>
also it doesnt need you to know python
<benzrf>
it uses a simple yaml config language
<benzrf>
h0rrorvacui: thoughts on my pattern thingy
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<h0rrorvacui>
Looking at it right now
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<h0rrorvacui>
What you making? IRC stalker :P?
<benzrf>
nah
<nyarlshub>
benzrf, i haven't used ansible, but i'd bet it still needs some client-side setup, like setting up ~/.ssh/authorized_key files, giving the user you want to deploy with sudo rights, etc
<benzrf>
well
<benzrf>
:P
<benzrf>
i think we're assuming those are already there
<benzrf>
given that you're probably switching from something else
<nyarlshub>
you don't necessarily need those with puppet
<nyarlshub>
but you do have to get the puppet agent on the nodes
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<nyarlshub>
so it's a tradeoff
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<nyarlshub>
there are other tradeoffs as well
<nyarlshub>
i've heard it argued that puppet is more suitable for larger/more complex environments
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<benzrf>
i feel like putting the agent is probably more of a setup than having authorized keys
<nyarlshub>
while ansible and salt are good for simple environments
<h0rrorvacui>
What about chef?
<nyarlshub>
benzrf: putting on the puppet agent is usually not much more involved than "apt-get puppet"
<benzrf>
:P
<nyarlshub>
chef is all ruby-based... while puppet uses its own ruby-like DSL
<nyarlshub>
also, i've heard that chef doesn't give you all the pretty guis and reporting capability that puppet enterprise does
<nyarlshub>
but i don't know chef myself... nor salt, nor ansible.. and only a little puppet
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<nyarlshub>
so take what i say with a grain of salt
<h0rrorvacui>
I'm not familiar with any of them, tbh I'm going to use docker and haven't looked into automation.
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<nyarlshub>
yeah, docker looks pretty handy
<nyarlshub>
i'm probably going to be using both docker and puppet together
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<h0rrorvacui>
I'm guessing puppet is the most popular though right?
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<benzrf>
it looks like ansible is simpler so there
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<Zhwazi->
I used to be into Linux but they seem to rewrite every subsystem every 3 years and I got tired of relearning it
<Zhwazi->
At least the major distros change everything out annoyingly quickly
<benzrf>
its GUHNOO slash LIHNUCKS
<benzrf>
GOD
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<h0rrorvacui>
why were you depending on the the concrete implementations and not the abstractions Zhwazi- :P
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<Zhwazi>
I would have used the "abstractions" if you want to call it that, but they became unreliable, complex, and autoconfigured themselves in ways I didn't want, and became resistant to attempts to make them behave as I wanted.
<h0rrorvacui>
I know what you mean but debian is relatively uncharacteristic of what you describe :P
<Zhwazi>
I am not a big fan of "automagic" :P
<Zhwazi>
Debian is one that I didn't use a whole lot
<h0rrorvacui>
But you chose right if you want little change
<Zhwazi>
I'm sure there are exceptions, as there seem to be as many distros as there are tastes for software behaviors :P
<h0rrorvacui>
Nothing wrong with the devil
<Zhwazi>
I'm content to have the one single best-practice way of doing it that doesn't have any obvious deficiencies and is simple enough that any unexpected behavior can be quickly corrected without going past the manpage of the program or component in question
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<Zhwazi>
I had difficulty finding that in Linux
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<Zhwazi>
And yeah, the only major changes to FreeBSD that have affected me are the new packaging system and some changes to the wifi system that made me change the configs for a couple of things.
<canton7>
You might like arch :) Although they do change things from time to time, they try and keep things simple
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<Zhwazi>
I've heard, I understand they and Gentoo like to try to keep to the BSD style of things :P
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<Zhwazi>
Gentoo was the last distro that I used regularly
<h0rrorvacui>
Zhwazi I don't know he wouldn't probably like arch seeing as it is bleeding edge and changes distro wise aren't common
<h0rrorvacui>
but application wise they are abundant
<h0rrorvacui>
I meant that to canton7
<Zhwazi>
I'm more concerned with the changes being manageable, correctable, predictable, and well documented, and ideally well explained, and all of these are best served by the system being simple.
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<canton7>
yeah, I was sure to mention that :) You do need to spent a bit of effort keeping up with it, so it probably doesn't best BSD in that respect, but I do have a lot of respect for their attitude to not abstracting away things
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<canton7>
the arch wiki is generally regarded as the best
<h0rrorvacui>
yeah was about to say that
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<Zhwazi>
Arch wasn't popular yet when I switched away from Linux
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<KK4MGV>
so, correct me if any of this is wrong (first day using ruby), but to use gems on 1.8 i need to require 'rubygems', then gem 'mygem', then require 'mygem', whereas on 2.0 i just need to require 'mygem'
<KK4MGV>
does this mean that i should just always do the former if i ever might want to be backwards compatible?
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<canton7>
KK4MGV, the 'gem mygem' thing is for bundler only, not for rubygems
<canton7>
and don't bother supporting 1.8, it's going end-of-life really soon (if it hasn't already)
<ddd>
or do you mean 'gem install mygem'?
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<KK4MGV>
nope, i mean gem mygem
<KK4MGV>
i get a NameError if i dont
<ddd>
thats both 1,8 and 1.9 regardless. the difference is 1.9 incorporates gem by default
<ddd>
ah ok
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<canton7>
NameError when you do what?
<ddd>
thats what i get for sticking my nose in hehe
<KK4MGV>
nameerror when i require 'rubygems', require 'mygem' (without gem 'mygem' inbetween)
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<canton7>
that really shouldn't be. pastie the full file and the exact error message?
<KK4MGV>
sure, 1sec
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<benzrf>
i wonder if it would be possible to make something that feels like ruby but uses Io's basic semantics
<benzrf>
o:
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<zoo-zed>
Possible for you or for someone else? Rhetorical question or just musing?
<ddd>
Io is that like Go or something? I've heard it mentioned a few times but did zero research to see what it is like
<benzrf>
Io is the most reflective and metaprogrammable language EVRF
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<benzrf>
maybe less than lisp idk
<ddd>
i've enough on my radar scope with ruby and rails to add anything else hehe. or i'll never get *anything* done :)
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<benzrf>
it is kind of like smalltalk but it is 100% prototype-based
<ddd>
interesting
<benzrf>
variables are just slots in the current object's context
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<benzrf>
so that means that you can manipulate scopes n stuff
<benzrf>
also, method-call arguments are not evaluated unless the method requests it
<benzrf>
meaning that you can pass code directly
<ddd>
in ruby context is that like a BasicObject you slot just what you want into?
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<benzrf>
no, by slots I mean attrs/methods
<ddd>
ah
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<benzrf>
in Io, 'if' is just a method
<benzrf>
it looks like this:
<benzrf>
if(foo > 2, "what" println)
<benzrf>
all exprs are slot lookups
<ddd>
hmm interesting (god i need to find a new word, but damn it is!)
<benzrf>
which is sort of the same thing as method calls?
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<ddd>
yeah, thats how i'm thinking of them
<benzrf>
so when I say 'foo', that's looking up the slot foo in the object you're currently inside of
<ddd>
from what you're sauing
<benzrf>
foo := 3 is just sugar for calling setSlot or something
<ddd>
powershell for windows seems a lot like that last line
<benzrf>
and self is just a method that returns self
<benzrf>
althought it is not always accessible
<ddd>
regardless of windows or not, similar?
<benzrf>
idk
<benzrf>
anyway
<benzrf>
since all vars are slots on objects
<benzrf>
that means that you can do absurdly awesome magic
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<ddd>
yoou got a url for a github proj based on Io?
<ddd>
might be cool to dumpster dive
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<benzrf>
for example, when you call a method it runs the code you defined, setting the current object to a 'locals' object with the receiver under the slot 'self' and as a prototype
<h0rrorvacui>
Io was one of the languages in the 7 languages in 7 weeks book
<benzrf>
so you can lookup slots in the receiver directly, but setting them can only be done through self
<ddd>
ive got it but haven't had time to read it yet
<benzrf>
ddd: do you know about prototypes/
<ddd>
extremely vague concepts
<benzrf>
the basic idea is
<ddd>
nothing extensive
<benzrf>
on any object you can call 'clone'
<h0rrorvacui>
think javascript object creation
<benzrf>
which returns a new object
<jalcine>
no, it's a keyword
<benzrf>
that new object will foward slot lookups to the obj it was cloned from if it doesn't have it itself
<benzrf>
ddd: basically you use regular objects as classes
<ddd>
oh snap! thats pretty cool! so if the clone doens't have it and the parent doesn't have it what then/
<h0rrorvacui>
vomits?
<benzrf>
then the parent forwards it up the prototype chain
<benzrf>
this is how JS works
<ddd>
that would gen an error i would imagine. what happens in io?
<ddd>
ah, i don't really know JS either. I'm a throwback., C, some C++, a but of java, and ruby are really all i know beyond shell scripting
<benzrf>
python uses a prototype-ish system, but it's set up to only allow you to use them like classes
<benzrf>
which is total BS
<benzrf>
cool
<ddd>
so an object is still instntiated from a class, but then afterwards you use the objecs themselves as classes?
<ddd>
or class like?
<benzrf>
Io> Object bar := 3
<benzrf>
==> 3
<benzrf>
==> Object_0x128ef30:
<benzrf>
Io> foo bar
<benzrf>
Io> foo := Object clone
<benzrf>
==> 3
<benzrf>
Io> foo bar := 2
<benzrf>
==> 2
<benzrf>
Io> foo bar
<benzrf>
==> 2
<benzrf>
Io> Object bar
<benzrf>
==> 3
<benzrf>
Io>
<benzrf>
oh shit i forgot to pastebin -.-
<benzrf>
ddd: there is no such thing as a class in Io, or in JS
<benzrf>
just objects
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<ddd>
that is insanely cool!~
<benzrf>
i know, right?
<benzrf>
=]
<ddd>
how do you define the initial object though?
<benzrf>
it's usually set up before hand
<h0rrorvacui>
You can do something similar in ruby by just opening up objects and cloning them
<benzrf>
a builtin
<ddd>
like in ruby yoiu can def object.method
<benzrf>
i really wish prototype-based OOP were more mainstream
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<benzrf>
it can be used just like class-based OO plus it's handy for cloning and stuff
<ddd>
how do you instantiate the first object, and then afterwards is it the same as with def object.method for adding/slotting?
<benzrf>
hmm?
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<ddd>
not sure how to properly explain that thought thread
<benzrf>
objects already exist, created by the lang
<ddd>
lemme see if i can refine that
<benzrf>
i.e. Object is an object
<ddd>
right, as it is in ruby
<benzrf>
to create a new object you can clone an old one
<benzrf>
if you want a perfectly generic object, clone Object
<ddd>
ok, that makes it easier to ask my question., sec lemme type it
<ddd>
its a concept issue so fgive me a sec
<benzrf>
in python, you cannot do direct cloning, but classes behave more or less like prototypes
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<benzrf>
i.e. they are sources of attrs if not found in the instance
<benzrf>
so you can do something like what I pasted earlier in python
<benzrf>
although not with the builtin classes because those are frozen
<ddd>
lang creates Object. you clone Object (like obj = Object.clone) then on the object you slot in var and methods, and to get another with those same atrs and methods you .clone the obj with that.
<benzrf>
right
<benzrf>
although Io borrows smalltalk's convention of denoting slot lookup with spaces
<h0rrorvacui>
Its so simple it sounds complicated
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<h0rrorvacui>
lol
<ddd>
and if the cloned obj or the parent doesn't have say myvar or mymethod, it goes up the chain to Object and if Object doesn't have it.. what then?
<benzrf>
error of curse
<benzrf>
*course
<benzrf>
just like how method lookup in ruby goes up the class chain to BasicObject
<benzrf>
then pukes
<h0rrorvacui>
well in javascript you state what is the parent of the object
<ddd>
and the syntax like := are mainly syntactic sugar for longer named methods
<benzrf>
right
<ddd>
which is what Powershell does
<ddd>
and there's no writing blueprint classes at ALL in io?
<benzrf>
blueprint classes?
<ddd>
defining classes that get instantiated on startup of an app say
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<benzrf>
not sure what you mean
<ddd>
nm, i answered my own question in the head
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<benzrf>
ok
<ddd>
i like it.
<benzrf>
Object string := method(self asString)
<benzrf>
i know :D
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<ddd>
takes a new way of thinking
<benzrf>
^args are not evaled unless requested, so you can define methods that take code
<benzrf>
self is not magic
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<benzrf>
method returns an object that, when activated, runs the code that you passed it
<benzrf>
it runs it in the context of a new object
<ddd>
well you can do that now in ruby can't you? pass a block to a method
<benzrf>
which uses the receiver as a prototype
<benzrf>
ddd: yes, but regular args
<benzrf>
no special syntax at all
<benzrf>
so like
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<benzrf>
add := method(a, b, a + b)
<ddd>
and that creates a method named method to the add object where the method method is a block of code to eval (but only done when called so the result isn't stored in the object, the code isn't actually evaluated *until* method method is called)
<ddd>
making sure i'm understanding
<benzrf>
no
<benzrf>
well not exactly
<benzrf>
add is a new slot
<benzrf>
method is a method that creates a method object
<benzrf>
it's like rpoc
<benzrf>
*proc
<benzrf>
i'm not 100% sure how it works, but some objects can be 'activated'
<benzrf>
which means that when they're looked up directly, they get activated instead of returning themselves
<benzrf>
the value returned by 'method' acts like that
<benzrf>
if you use 'foo bar', bar will be activated if possible. whereas 'foo getSlot("bar")' will give you whatever bar is
<ddd>
thats a weird concept to get down. but i tink i understand
<ddd>
oh ok now that makes sensse
<ddd>
err sense
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<h0rrorvacui>
Just look into object oriented javascript
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<benzrf>
Io> add := method(a, b, a + b)
<benzrf>
==> method(a, b, a + b
<benzrf>
==> 5
<benzrf>
)
<benzrf>
Io> add(2, 3)
<h0rrorvacui>
Thats basically a c style syntax with prototyping
<KK4MGV>
crockford's book covers it really well
<benzrf>
the values a, b, and a + b are passed verbatim without being evaled.
<ddd>
getSlot returns whatever the def for bar *is*, whereas calling bar directly returns the result that whatever is in bar generates
<benzrf>
method never tries to eval them
<benzrf>
ddd: unless bar is not activatable
<benzrf>
in which case it just returns it
<benzrf>
i.e. numbers
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<h0rrorvacui>
KK4MGV what book is that? I'm not good with remembering author names.
<KK4MGV>
the good parts
<KK4MGV>
the oreilly one
<h0rrorvacui>
ahh yeah
<h0rrorvacui>
Highly recommend that book.
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<ddd>
hehe i might have to adjust my todo list and read up on it
<benzrf>
ddd: so the current object that the code of the method is evaled within is generated whenever you call the method
<benzrf>
it has the 'self' slot set to the receiver, and the same object as one of the prototypes
<benzrf>
so you get slots without explicit self, but setting will not affect self
<benzrf>
:D
<ddd>
so the object 'owning' that method doesn't even exist until its method is actually called?
<benzrf>
very VERY clever
<benzrf>
no, it does
<ddd>
did i get that right?? thats insanely cool!
<benzrf>
the object owning it is Lobby
<ddd>
oh
<benzrf>
add is a slot on Lobby
<ddd>
yeah but thats a placeholder object right?
<benzrf>
Lobby exists from the beginning
<benzrf>
oh wait
<benzrf>
the object that the code is evalled in is different from the one that it is called on
<benzrf>
if I do 'foo bar', the code for bar will be evalled in a special object created for that invocation
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<benzrf>
which has 'foo' as a proto, and as the value of the slot 'self'
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<ddd>
i mean if obj.mymethod hasn't been called yet, obj dfoesn't yet exist, but the reference to the fact that there is an obj object and that it has a method obj is stored in lobby?
<benzrf>
nooo
<ddd>
meaning you'd save memory because then just a reference exists
<h0rrorvacui>
ddd the book KK4MGV listed is short too
<benzrf>
the code in the REPL is evalled inside the object Lobby
<h0rrorvacui>
it gets right to the point
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<h0rrorvacui>
and javascript will benefit your rails
<benzrf>
so when I say 'add', that's the same as 'Lobby add'
<ddd>
hehe
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<benzrf>
foo bar := baz is foo setSlot("bar", baz)
<ddd>
Lobby is the 'anonymous object'?
<benzrf>
ddd: no, it's just the host for the REPL
<ddd>
ok
<benzrf>
code in ruby is always run inside an object
<ddd>
where is this damned book?
<benzrf>
and method calls without a receiver will be called on the object you're in
<benzrf>
same in io_syl
<benzrf>
*Io
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<benzrf>
in ruby:
<benzrf>
def add(a, b); a + b; end; add(1, 2)
<ddd>
hehe I want to read this cause I think i might understand a bit if i have more of a mental model rather than trying to build it on the fly from your explanation
<benzrf>
in IoL
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<benzrf>
*Io:
<benzrf>
add := method(a, b, a + b)
<benzrf>
add(1, 2)
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<ddd>
shoudl ad 1 and 2
<benzrf>
ddd: remember, in Io all names are slots. period.
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<ddd>
ohhhhh
<benzrf>
if you don't put an object in front of a name, it defaults to the one you're evaluating inside
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<benzrf>
so 'foo' is synonymous with 'Lobby foo'
<benzrf>
...if im in Lobby
<benzrf>
which you start out in
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<benzrf>
when I say 'add := method(a, b, a + b)', add is now a slot on Lobby that contains a method
<ddd>
lol this is sounding a lot like banisterfiend's implementation in pry
<ddd>
cd'ing into objects and whatnot
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<benzrf>
but when the code 'a + b' is run, it is run inside a special new object made for that invocation that uses Lobby as a prototype
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<benzrf>
but assigning slots will not add them!
<benzrf>
so I can still see the slots in Lobby
<benzrf>
this is how local vars work
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<benzrf>
since you can explicitly manipulate the scope that code runs in and control where those scopes inherit from
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<benzrf>
you can actually do things like create dynamically scoped methods!
<benzrf>
:D
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<ddd>
rockin!
<ddd>
i think i got most of this. definitely going to need a tut or 2, but i think i've the gist of it
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<benzrf>
yeah its pretty mind blowing
<benzrf>
Owo
<ddd>
how old is this language? i've only heard a few references to it prior to this
<benzrf>
idk
<ddd>
wondering how it escaped me :)
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<ddd>
iolanguage.org right?
<benzrf>
something like that
<ddd>
i'm there now
<benzrf>
look @ this
<benzrf>
Io> foo := method(val, call sender bar := val)
<shevy>
isn't it dead?
<benzrf>
Io> foo(3)
<benzrf>
==> 3
<benzrf>
==> 3
<benzrf>
Io> bar
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<ddd>
wow! nice chaining especially since not eval'd until called
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<ddd>
add method val to foo which is in reality a handoff to bar with value of val setting val on bar
<cj>
you folks are chatty ;-)
<benzrf>
the reference is a bit insubstantial
<benzrf>
:{
<cj>
KK4MGV: wow, that's a new call isn't it?
<benzrf>
ddd: no, not adding a method val
<ddd>
hehe benzrf is showing me a new language.
<benzrf>
ddd: val is the argument
<ddd>
ohh
<benzrf>
ddd: method() creates a new method object, it does not add a method
<ddd>
missed that
<benzrf>
I am assigning the slot foo to the result of the call
<ddd>
yeah i thought := was doing that
<KK4MGV>
cj: you mean my nick?
<cj>
yeah, that one
<KK4MGV>
yep :)
<cj>
I thought I was new and I'm a KF
<ddd>
benzrf: ok ok, you've convinced me. i'ma earmark some time this weekend to look into this
<KK4MGV>
its been about a year
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<benzrf>
new call?
<benzrf>
what's this o_o
<cj>
well, welcome to the club. It was about a year before I started to use mine. And I haven't used it in a year so ;-)
<ddd>
ham callsign i think
<cj>
benzrf: qrz.com/db/KK4MGV
<benzrf>
o:
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<ddd>
can't tell from the site. am i right? ham raido callsign?
<KK4MGV>
i didn't want to interrupt your good prototypal oo discussion, but i'm still curious about https://linxb.in/raw/6c3ac4f.txt
<ddd>
err radio
<KK4MGV>
yes, it is
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<ddd>
i've a few neighbors with the tall assed ham towers in their yards (bear in mind that neighbors are separated by a few miles lol)
<KK4MGV>
hehe, yep
<ddd>
someone wanted to give me a tower their father used to use before he died, but i've no equipment so i didn't take it
<KK4MGV>
i still haven't gotten around to getting my general class license yet which is required to transmit on the lower bands (for which you need big antennae)
<ddd>
they just wanted it out of their yard i think hehe
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<ddd>
this one is about ohh 20 feet talk maybe 25?
<canton7>
KK4MGV, could it be an ancient rubygems? gem update --system
<ddd>
idk how powerful that would be
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<ddd>
no maybe a bit bigger. 30 - 35 ft maybe
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<ddd>
big enough you have to use wires to anchor it
<ddd>
or screw it into a concrete pad or something
<ddd>
during peace time we use it for soldiers to send messages home rather than paying long distance charges and stuff. or at least when I was active duty
<ddd>
its also used during war time in case main military channels get knocked out
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<KK4MGV>
nice
<ddd>
its not an efficient real time conversation mode, you're just relaying messages to the states and the operators just place the call for you, but it works :)
<ddd>
yeah, its how i told my ex wife when we were still together that I was coming home for christmas when I was stationed in Kora in the early 90s :)