apeiros changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 2.0.0-p353: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p484) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || this channel is logged at http://irclog.whitequark.org, other public logging is prohibited
<gordon__> it wont happen
<gordon__> I guess
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<Iszak> gordon__ probably not, with apple locking down iOS, we need an anti-trust lawsuit to break it
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<gordon__> I mean that you will always need to write gui
<gordon__> or app will look the same on ios and android
<mdpatrick_> Anyone else getting a 503 service unavailable from rubygems.org???
<gordon__> which is *wrong*
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<gordon__> mdpatrick_: works for me
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<heidi> same
<Iszak> gordon__ not necessarily, someone could write an abstract layer, granted it will be the lowest common gui elements
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<mdpatrick_> gordon__: Thanks... Guess its my network I'm on.
<gordon__> Iszak: I havent develop any ios app so I dont know, but I suspec it will be harder than you think
<Iszak> gordon__ absolutely, I haven't developed any native iOS/Android application, but I am optimistic.
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<Notte> Hi, how should i do dependencies control, bundler, rvm or else? Would you advice me?
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<gordon__> Notte: rvm
<gordon__> you can make project specific gems
<Notte> gordon__: using gemsets?
<gordon__> and ruby versions
<gordon__> yes, gemsets
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<gordon__> I guess that was it's name
<gordon__> you can then put gemset and ruby version into project
<gordon__> so it will switch it
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<gordon__> rvm also supports your system version (when you're for example running linux and got ruby 2.0 in repo)
<Notte> But, do you use that usually?
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<gordon__> well it's good for team projects I think? ;)
<Iszak> gordon__ why use gemsets when you've got bundler?
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<gordon__> Iszak: doesnt bundler install gems ?
<gordon__> from Gemfile ?
<Iszak> gordon__ yes
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<Iszak> I always felt gemsets aren't needed since bundler come about
<gordon__> and you can make gemsets per project with rvm ?
<gordon__> (bundler will download them to that gemset) ?
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<jrobeson> they will download them to that project
<gordon__> maybe I dont know
<gordon__> I'm java dev ;0
<gordon__> ;)
<jrobeson> bundler is for per project gems
<Notte> Ok, so i won't take your advice, no offense :D
<jrobeson> or can be used for per project gems
<Iszak> where as gemsets can be per project, per user?
<jrobeson> a lot of people use chruby for ruby itself instead of rvm
<jrobeson> to change ruby versions
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<gordon__> see now you know ;)
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<Notte> I've just "source 'https://rubygems...'; gem 'rails'" inside my Gemfile, and bundle install gives me an error: Bundler::GemNotFound: Could not find minitest-4.7.5.gem for installation
<Notte> Do you know why?
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<Notte> I've got gem 2.2.0-rc-1
<gordon__> cannot help you
<gordon__> I did rvm install rails
<gordon__> or something
<gordon__> with version ;)
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<Notte> Ok, this time i'll install rails without bundler :\. Thank you
<Iszak> Notte could it have been pulled?
<shevy> avoiding bundler is usually the best way anyway ;)
<Iszak> what is with the bundler hate?
<Notte> Iszak: no, it gets stuck a that dependency
<shevy> does bundler work?
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<Iszak> Notte why is your name night in italian?
<Notte> Iszak: because i like it
<Iszak> e.g. londra di notte
<Notte> plain and simple :)
<Iszak> Where is Serra :P
<Iszak> sera rather
<Notte> Where are you from Iszak?
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<Iszak> UK
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<soheil> I'd like to write a spec test to check if a function is getting called with a specific parameter, however, that function will be getting called more than once with different parameters, I only want to test a single call to it with a specific parameter not the other calls.
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<soheil> The test keeps failing if I use should_receive(:my_method).with(param1) it fails with other calls to my_method with different params.
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<soheil> Basically what I need is to let other calls through without inspecting them.
<soheil> any ideas?
<Iszak> Notte why?
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<Notte> out of curiosity
<Iszak> Notte you?
<Notte> Italy
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<Notte> I think the problem is the gem version
<Iszak> Notte which region?
<Notte> Release candidate is shitty, i don't know why i've that installed
<Notte> Iszak: Lombardy
<Iszak> ah, north.
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<Notte> I'm stating off with a new app and i was really doubtful about which language to use between nodejs and ruby, and maybe scala
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<Notte> Already know js and a bit of ruby, but it's been a long time since i programmed in ruby
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<Notte> I chose ruby just for the big comunity and tested gems
<Notte> one for each taste ahah
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<gordon__> scala <3
<gordon__> sorry I couldn't resist :)
<Notte> :)
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<Notte> Which libraries should i use for a common scala web app, gordon__?
<gordon__> get playframework ;)
<gordon__> ORM is bigger problem
<gordon__> probably squeryl and slick are two options
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<gordon__> you can always write java JPA classes and make service layer in scala ;)
<Notte> Writing Java makes me sad
<Notte> I can't
<gordon__> I love
<Rylee> writing java is the #1 cause of depression in america
<Rylee> watch out
<Notte> lol
<gordon__> Rylee: you can say that ;)
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<gordon__> rotting projects probably
<gordon__> and xml
<gordon__> but it got many adventages too
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<gordon__> and I like compiled languages more
<gordon__> I'm stupid so let compiled stay on guard
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<mzdravkov> gordon__: java is not like the only compiled language :)
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<Notte> Yeah, i realize that every time i use c++ after a long time on js
<Notte> It's nice to have static type checking
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<Iszak> Notte choose a solution that fits your problem.
<Iszak> I am sick of all these people using node.js "just because" it's new and hip.
<Iszak> Equally, the use of NoSQL
<mzdravkov> I really like the idea of Erlang, even if I have written so few things in it.
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<Iszak> It's all about the right tool for the right job, it's like those developers who use wordpress for everything because a) they love it and b) that's all they know, don't be one of those guys.
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<Notte> Do you use ruby 2.0?
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<Iszak> Notte I don't use ruby in my day job, I use php unfortunately.
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<Notte> poor guy
<Notte> :D
<Iszak> I am leaving my job soon, they are turning into a wordpress shop.
<Iszak> The "technology director" all he knows is wordpress
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<jle`> i don't think i'll understand nosql, but i can understand the cognitive benefit of keeping the same language throughout your entire stak
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<Iszak> jle` NoSQL is good when you haven't got a consistent structure for whatever reason
<Iszak> although some would say, why not just use postgresql json data store instead of NoSQL which proves to be just as fast.
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<Notte> because you don't need to load the entire document, maybe
<Notte> i dunno
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<Iszak> this is true
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<jle`> this is true
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<Iszak> surely you'd need to load the ensure document in noSQL to use your reduce function? although it's already loaded in memory.
<jle`> flexible schema sounds like a style choice and a freedom rather than a pseudo-objective 'better'.
<jle`> a legitimate style choice
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<jle`> i don't know what i am saying anymore
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<Iszak> jle` time to go to sleep?
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<jle`> perhaps it is :)
<Iszak> Notte do you work in Italy?
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<Notte> Iszak: i do.
<Iszak> Notte I heard it is rife with under paid developer
<Iszak> s
<Notte> Iszak: yes, it's true.
<Notte> It's true for all kind of jobs, now.
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<Iszak> Notte My friend from Napoli moved to the UK because it was so bad.
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<Notte> Iszak: well, i think there's much work in Milan, more than other parts of Italy and you can live well if you're skilled with some experience (if you don't have it you're gonna be treated like a slave)
<Notte> But i think that in UK is worst since the cost of the life is much higher
<Notte> Isn't it?
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<Iszak> Notte it is, but at least the price is competitive, in italy they want perfect knowledge, paid with a pittance
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<Notte> I've been seeing many Italians go to London for paying high rents and barely get at the end of the month... I can't understand that
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<Notte> Well, good night.
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<gordon__> night
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<Mage_Dude> Is there some kind of connection limiting on rubygems.org? I've been getting connection refused off and on for the past hour. Service says up...but various 'gem installs' fail with ECONNREFUSED
<gordon__> it was working for me today
<Notte> I'm struggling with it too for at least 2h
<Iszak> Mage_Dude possibly, not that I know of.
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<Iszak> Notte did you say you are going to sleep?
<Iszak> Mage_Dude perhaps setup a mirror?
<Notte> I laid
<Notte> :D
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<gordon__> but didnt get laid ;)
<Notte> I've `rails new` stuck on run bundle install
<Notte> :(
<Iszak> Notte you've got coders block, go to bed.
<ddd> sigh, seems i'm not the only one. not sure if thats good or bad
<Notte> I'm obsessed, i can't
<Mage_Dude> Iszak: All the 'package management' sites aren't making installations any easier. It's almost like you need mirrors for any systems you use. I've got deb mirrors, local github clones, composer package mirrors, what's one more right?
<Jamo> I had to try install some gems, and I had no trouble...
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<Jamo> might be due to location difference...
<Jamo> if such exists...
<ddd> could be just a couple servers int he pool having issues so it appears for some but not everyone
<Mage_Dude> Probably. I just wish there was a 'hey here's a zip file so you don't have to try 8000 times to install this'...bleh
<gordon__> mirror maybe ? :D
<Mage_Dude> Is there any way I can clear a cookie or something and maybe get a new server randomly assigned?
<ddd> i don't think so. rubygems is set up to a single IP which probably means they are using backend load balancers
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<ddd> most HA clusters are set like that. the IP rotates between a master and a slave with nodes registering to the master. (like ldirectord and piranha do)
<Mage_Dude> Finally got bundle install to complete
<gordon__> yay!
<ddd> woot!
<gordon__> rapid development :D
<shevy> Mage_Dude I'm gonna call you Mirror_Dude
<Mage_Dude> Might as well. I feel like I'm mirroring half the internet...
<ddd> hehe
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<gordon__> well
<gordon__> I see you havent used java's maven :D
<ddd> man this tumixinator bug is tickin me off
<gordon__> this isnt a joke ;)
<ddd> if you set base-index 1 (so windows start at 1 rather than 0) nothing in window 0 if it has panes will launch. (Issues #167) remove the index rename and it works.
<ddd> gordon__: lol thats just wrong!
<gordon__> downloading internet ?
<gordon__> well, yea
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<Mage_Dude> ruby VIRT=1112m PU=98.8... must be busy.
<ddd> github issues (on closed issues) iirc you get emailed answers correct? had to post to a closed issue someone else opened. can't remember if GH just appends to the issue and sets notification or if it emails you that an answer was made or not
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<WJW> mzdravkov, I think that there is probably some way to do that.
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<Azure> Shouldn't the topic be updated now that 2.1.0 is released?
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<mjc_> yeah
<mjc_> probably
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<flubba> rubymine opinions?
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<ddd> i use it
<flubba> i alternate between it and sublime3
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<ddd> RM6.0.1 currently
<flubba> oh nice
<flubba> i need to upgrade
<flubba> i'm on 5.4
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<flubba> why does it have integration with zeus
<flubba> instead of spring
<flubba> can you integrate spring?
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<anshin> is ruby 2.1 significantly faster than 2.0? what makes it faster, if so? I read the brief version of the changelogs and didn't see anything beyond GC improvements
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<wmoxam> anshin: GC improvements are a big deal
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<wmoxam> one of the best ways to improve performance in 2.0 was to tweak GC settings
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<flubba> it's not much faster
<flubba> and it's not much faster than 1.9
<flubba> ruby will always be slow
<flubba> 2.1 introduces keyword arguments
<anshin> I thought keyword arguments were available in 2.0
<flubba> oh yeah
<flubba> you're right
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<anshin> wmoxam: do you have any resources for understanding ruby's approach to GC and what changed?
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<bnagy> you should say MRI, not ruby
<anshin> I think it might be a bit over my head but I'm interested
<bnagy> to avoid confusion
<anshin> MRI?
<bnagy> the 'default' ruby interpreter
<WJW> Matz's Ruby Interpreter.
<anshin> ah, thanks
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<bnagy> although tbh it's more KRI / YARV now but MRI is the understood term
<ddd> MRI is the original ruby. there are a bunch of different 'Rubies'. JRuby, Rubinius, etc
<WJW> Looks as though there's a talk on object management in Ruby Conference 2013.
<flubba> Jruby and rubinius ftw.
<ddd> though MRI, JRuby, and Rubinius are the most well known implementations of Ruby
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<ddd> all of wich (if iirc) all conform to RubySpec
<ddd> rubyspec.org
<WJW> http://www.confreaks.com/videos/2866-rubyconf2013-object-management-on-ruby-2-1 Object Management in Ruby 2.1 might be addressing garbage collection.
<anshin> so there IS a ruby spec
<ddd> yes
<anshin> awesome
<flubba> does anyone think ruby will be faster than php one day?
<ddd> the repo for it is at https://github.com/rubyspec/rubyspec/
<ddd> flubba: now you're just trolling.
<ddd> moving on
<flubba> ruby is slower than php.
<flubba> want to see benchmark?
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<wmoxam> flubba: those are very narrow benchmarks
<anshin> so, the rubyspec is built in such a way that if I were implementing ruby I would be able to test it against this spec?
<ddd> which implementation, doing exactly what tests, under what environments, etc. Sounding just like Microsoft with their Windows Server is faster than BLAH. in which they set extremely cutom settings optimal for their server with nothing done for others
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<anshin> or am I misunderstanding "executable specification"?
<ddd> so yeah its real easy to make benchmarks say whatever you want. sort of like statistics
<anshin> oh "see rubyspec.org for more information"
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<ddd> anshin: yeah
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<anshin> this is awesome, I didn't know about any of this a few minutes ago
<ddd> :) TIL :)
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<flubba> ruby is the slowest language, it's a fact. it's a great language and speed doesn't matter in many uses cases. that's all i'm saying
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<ddd> anshin: w/o saying a single thing in here for days, I learn something everyday i sit at the keyboard and watch this channel.
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<ddd> flubba: whatever
<ddd> go troll elsewhere
<flubba> not trolling?
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<ddd> ./ignore flubba ALL
<flubba> i'm just talking about how it's dissapointing that we're on 2.1 already and speed improvements haven't happend
<anshin> ddd: that's why I joined, but I decided to start with a question. I aim to lurk
<flubba> ./ignore ddd ALL
<ddd> anshin: lurking is quite educational
<flubba> i'm really not trolling
<flubba> sorry
<wmoxam> that's what a troll would say
<wmoxam> ;)
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<flubba> i'm just frustrated that i have to use jruby for decent speed
<Boohbah> flubba: jruby sucks
<flubba> why?
<anshin> one more question, do any of you happen to know of benchmarks comparing MRI versions (and is MRI versions the way to say that)? I saw http://www.isrubyfastyet.com/ today but it's specific to rails
<mjc_> my experience with it is nothing like that Boohbah
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<ddd> anshin: mri versions would mean that you just want to benchmark Matz's releases only
<flubba> isrubyfastyet should be renamed israilsaffectedbyrubyimplementations
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<wmoxam> anshin: most versions of Ruby are going to have performance that's "in the same ball park"
<flubba> also that site fucked up measuring jruby
<flubba> they used jdk 1.6 which ignored many optimizations that make jruby way faster than standard ruby
<wmoxam> ie: they are roughly the same speed as other similar featured scripting languages such as python, perl, php, etc
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<anshin> ddd: I meant that specific phrasing, but that is what I meant
<ddd> the different ruby implementations work together quite well, and a lot. they're pretty good at identifying bottlenecks and working cross-implementation to remove them.
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<anshin> wmoxam: that would be my guess
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<wmoxam> anshin: if you truely need more speed for a critical component you can write a C extension
<anshin> hm, so that would mean speed improvements are more about bottlenecks removed than significant optimization in general?
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<mjc_> jruby is way faster for every app I've ever done
<ddd> anshin: idk if its the absolute correct way to say it, but if you're meaning across all the different implementations of ruby (same language just implemented differently) i'd say ruby implementations. or implementations of the ruby language.
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<anshin> I don't care too much about speed, though I do wonder whether I will be bitten by performance limitations at some point. it's just a healthy curiosity
<ddd> hehe
<flubba> also note that site used Mid-2007 MacBook Pro
<mjc_> rbx comes close
<anshin> ddd: ah, ok
<wmoxam> anshin: yeah, so the recent improvements are with the GC, which is important for long running service type apps, like web app servers
<flubba> jruby is faster 100% of the time because it's a compiled language
<ddd> anshin: with jruby, the only real speed issues i've seen are in development and thats the same in production. the initial spinup of the jvm.
<wmoxam> flubba: lol
<ddd> once running its great
<anshin> flubba: I did notice that, and I requests per second on rails isn't a metric that's particularly relatable for me
<wmoxam> flubba: so is C ;)
<flubba> huh?
<mjc_> jruby 1.7.9 is still about 2-16x faster for me than 2.1.0 for our internal apps
<ddd> its just due to being java based and the jvm spinup time that 'slows' it
<mjc_> depends on what the apps are doing
<anshin> ddd: ah, so JRuby might be preferable for a longrunning app while MRI might be more suitable for systems scripts or something along those lines?
<flubba> compiled languages matter on the web. that's why java/scala perform well
<bnagy> holy crap this is worse than HN
<ddd> or i should say that as as its java based there is a jvm involved and that takes spinup time.
<wmoxam> mjc_: I've run into cases where I had to drop into MRI to have a task complete
<anshin> ah
<havenwood> bnagy: flee for the hills!
<wmoxam> mjc_: due to jruby being a memory hog
<ddd> anshin: yeah. i woud agree with that
<anshin> bnagy: did I accidentally open a can of worms?
<flubba> well jvm is a memory hog, yeah
<mjc_> wmoxam: I've never had that happen, I have had to occasionally change some things to work more the way jruby expects
<mjc_> any details?
<ddd> again, its still going to be subjective at some levels, but in general if you're looking at startup to actually executing your ruby scripts, mri will kick off before jruby does, but jruby will probably be faster for more long-term longer running apps.
<bnagy> anshin: no afaict flubba was already saying stupid stuff before you got here
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<anshin> bnagy: ah, good (well, for me)
<ddd> and that is impacted by whats being done as well.
<wmoxam> mjc_: parsing mid sized XML docs (100MB RSS)
<flubba> just preaching the truth
<ddd> there's no unilateral A is faster than B
<ddd> and trying to pass it off as truth, even though everything he's stating as fact is subjective as all hell
<mjc_> wmoxam: hum, xml parsing should be pretty great on jruby
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<mjc_> wmoxam: what were you using for it?
<ddd> anshin: best bet is to check out the top ruby implementations, see what your common app type is, and do your own comparison.
<wmoxam> mjc_: we do a lot of RSS feed processing
<mjc_> I mean what parser
<wmoxam> mjc_: typically the documents are small ~ 1-3MB
<flubba> what i've done in some situations, is create a seperate service running jruby for processing tasks like that
<wmoxam> mjc_: Nokogiri
<mjc_> ah
<flubba> and communicate via api
<flubba> but the main app is mri
<anshin> yeah, that makes sense. like I said, I'm not really all that concerned about speed since that's not why I use ruby, but I'm wondering whether I'll be impacted if I need to scale significantly
<ddd> its also impacted by environment such as server specs, local environment, what you're doing, how oyu chose to implement what you're doing, etc.
<anshin> but I'm immensely curious about the innerworkings of ruby
<flubba> yeah, dont use jruby on a amazon micro
<ddd> anshin: so it means you taking control and playing with each and seeing which best serves your needs
<wmoxam> mjc_: jruby took hours to do what YARV took minutes
<ddd> anshin: its just like operating systems. they too are impacted by tons of different things. so A is faster than B is subjective.
<bnagy> if you starve the jvm of ram it performs like complete crap
<anshin> yeah, that definitely makes sense
<bnagy> whereas mri makes no effort to limit its peak mem
<ddd> oh yeah, Ruby under a Microscope is an excellent book
<anshin> will read
<flubba> +1
<ddd> definitely need to get if you're looking to get into the underpinnings
<anshin> what about this: http://ruby-hacking-guide.github.io/ ?
<ddd> i'd wait til you read the microscope book
<anshin> thanks
<ddd> no problem
<mjc_> wmoxam: I'm trying to remember what parser I used on my last project but I avoided nokogiri for a reason heh
<flubba> anshin that's a great site
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<mjc_> also what jvm version?
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<ddd> anshin: jruby is also impacted by what jvm you use as well, as an fyi. I use oracle's JRE/JDK vs. openjdk. but thats a personal choice impacted by external stuff, so just bear that in mind too
<anshin> ah I hadn't considered that
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<ddd> anshin: basically the golden rule, before you call a duck a duck (its slow), make sure that you've checked for the webbed feet :)
<anshin> I'm surprised I didn't
<anshin> heh
<ddd> easy to forget stuff like that. i did it in an unrelated case, made a judgement, and was shown where i was wrong because i'd never considered an aspect of the problem.
<ddd> so no worries
<flubba> jdk 7
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<ddd> anshin: i'm using it with oracles, jdk7 update 45 iirc
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<ddd> works for me, slow spinup but great longterm
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<ddd> but you'll get slow spinup even with openjdk so..
<gordon__> oracle jdk is faster
<gordon__> generally
<ddd> anshin: Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0_45-b18) is what *I* am using
<gordon__> at least it should be
<wmoxam> mjc_: 7
<mjc_> interesting
<wmoxam> I've ran web + async worker services on jruby for about a year now
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<ddd> anshin: and *I* usually stick with jruby or mri. again, subjective, and personal choice. you'll end up making your own set
<wmoxam> and I can't say that I'd do it again
<wmoxam> (in this case I had little choice in the matter)
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<ddd> anshin: wmoxam is good, if he's so inclined hit him up for added info on specifics you have. or hit the open channel. just do your research first. definitely expected
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<ddd> my experience is self-taught. he's real world business experience i don't
<ddd> err he has even
<ddd> also talk to a guy in #rubyonrails with the nick workmad3. another good resource. for rails specifics, see radar
<anshin> I read "he's" as "he has". I think I'm in a position to research other topics, but I wasn't sure how to research my initual question about ruby's performance aims and improvements
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<ddd> well, check out the rubyspec, clone and run against the different implementations. see what you can see, go from there
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<anshin> though a cursory search would have been a good idea in hindsight
<ddd> follow the ruby core ML as well
<ddd> i don't follow that one myself, but i'm not even trying to be an implementer or anything more than a language user
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<anshin> I'm just fascinated and want to see how deep I can take my knowledge
<anshin> I doubt I'll actually try implementing the language for some time, though that would be fun too
<ddd> get that microscope book then. excellent and solid starting point for what you're after
<anshin> I definitely will
<ddd> totally forgot about it til he mentioned it
<Boohbah> anshin: learn C if you don't know it
<ddd> i read the initial release as i'd signed up to 'beta' the book. i've not touched it since then (beta as in typo fixes, how well it reads, etc. i couldn't hold a candle to the knowledge he actually has on the subject)
<anshin> Boohbah: thanks. I've got some knowledge of C but I'm not satisfied with my knowledge thus far and have what I think/hope is a solid plan for taking it further
<ddd> yeah knowing C will help immensely when you start dumpster diving the ruby code
<anshin> definitely not sufficient to dive into ruby code quite yet
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<ddd> the code implementing MRI ruby, not ruby code the ruby bin executes that is
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<ddd> anyways, more knowledgable people than I are in here, just ask in open channel., someone will pipe up. in the meantime, gotta take care of something IRL.
<ddd> anshin: good talk
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<anshin> ddd: thanks a lot
<anshin> and the rest of you, too
<ddd> no problem at all
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<WJW> In C, p + x is the same as x + p and therefore p[x] is the same as x[p].
<anshin> yes
<anshin> though I'm confused by your first clause
<anshin> unless p in this case means pointer
<WJW> Assume p is a pointer and x is an integer (indeX).
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<anshin> I thought so
<anshin> but wasn't 100%
<WJW> In C, p[x] means *(p + x).
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<anshin> are there any differences?
<WJW> No. It is semantically the same.
<WJW> But I suppose MRI doesn't do a lot of indexing.
<anshin> I remember reading "don't confuse pointers and arrays" but I don't think it was elaborated and the concepts seem much the same in C
<WJW> The main difference is what happens if you say sizeof a vs. sizeof p.
<WJW> In many contexts, the name of an array a is immediately converted to a pointer to the first element.
<WJW> But not after sizeof.
<anshin> ah
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<WJW> MRI probably uses macros a lot, #define...
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<WJW> I have seen a bit of the code, and I think he probably has a macro to do each of a number of very low-level things the interpreter has to do all the time, such as manipulating object identifiers.
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<WJW> In the documentation of the built-in methods in the Ruby library, when you are looking at those, you can ask for the source code. Sometimes that code is in C.
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<bnagy> the MRI C code is macro-riffic though
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<bnagy> anshin: if you want to browse it quickly, there's a site called rxr that whitequark ( I think ) runs, it's very handy
<bnagy> you can search for funcs across the codebase for all versions etc
<bnagy> saves greppin
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<anshin> bnagy, ddd: thanks a lot
<ddd> np
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<ddd> i didn't know about rxr til he mentioned it. i dumpster dive by hand. good to know about it
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<anshin> it took me a second to find it. ddg decided to load very slowly for whatever reason
<ddd> he covers mri jruby and rubinius
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<aharris6> Hello, is this the appropriate place to ask about a rbenv issue?
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<WJW> There seems to be a channel for #rbenv.
<aharris6> WJW: empty though...
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<WJW> True.
<aharris6> Maybe take it to #rails then, as it is part of a rails project?
<aharris6> #rubyonrails
<WJW> I use rbenv a little, but I neglected to keep scripts of how I installed it, etc.
<aharris6> I will ask my question in rails, since it also pertains to my Gemfile
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<nonconvergent> Hi.
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<von___> hi. would like to ask. I am trying to get rack.url_schema in goliath.. the purpose is to see the request is ssl or not from nginx. but couldn't get that.. any clue? thanks.
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<diegoviola> ("a".."z").to_a # is there another way to do this?
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<dseitz> [*('a'..'z')]
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<diegoviola> ty
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<dseitz> np
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<von___> hi. would like to ask. I am trying to get rack.url_schema in goliath.. the purpose is to see the request is ssl or not from nginx. but couldn't get that.. any clue? thanks.
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<dagen> how i can print some ECHO to logs when i run my ruby code?
<dagen> can i
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<lellera> ciao
<lellera> !list
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<pcfreak30> I keep coming back to ruby mainly due to puppet, and the same concept still stumps me. How exactly can modules be used besides as a namespace. And what is the purpose of nested classes?
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<apeiros> pcfreak30: the purpose of nesting classes is exactly the same as nesting a class within a module.
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<apeiros> pcfreak30: and you can use modules as method containers. see Object#extend and Module#include
<pcfreak30> So modules really are just for the equiv of static calls
<apeiros> and last but not least - for utility functions (c.f. Kernel, Math) - see Module#module_function
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<pcfreak30> and including methods in a class
<apeiros> and extending methods in an object
<pcfreak30> I still have trouble understading the need of mixins
<pcfreak30> if you can extend from a base class
<apeiros> take a look at Enumerable and Comparable
<apeiros> those two are extremely useful examples of mixins.
<pcfreak30> Also how would I handle reflection
<apeiros> inheritance by subclassing is almost universally a bad idea IMO. flawed concept.
<pcfreak30> in php there is _call and _set and im looing to make a ruby port of the library
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<apeiros> what do you want to do?
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<pcfreak30> I its a bad idea, then half of all languages are screwed
<apeiros> almost all introspective/reflective capabilities are built right into Object, Module and Class.
<pcfreak30> Keep in mind
<pcfreak30> the only reason im messing with ruby is due to the puppet automation system
<apeiros> why would I keep that in mind?
<apeiros> I don't care for what reasons you use which language.
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<pcfreak30> Just ment
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<pcfreak30> I am a beginner level ATM on ruby
<apeiros> and yes, when I see the atrocities done in other languages by using broken single inheritance mechanisms, then indeed, those languages screw you :-p
<pcfreak30> As I dont go to it much
<pcfreak30> apeiros: well the fact stands then every language is broken via your statement them? As every lang allows subclassing
<pcfreak30> Well decent one atleast
<apeiros> (mind you, I don't consider rubys include/extend to be perfect, but it's a huge step up already)
<pcfreak30> Basically
<apeiros> pcfreak30: your opinion of "decent" isn't congruent with mine.
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<pcfreak30> php _call allows me to do $obj->method when method isnt defined. Basically a magic reflection for dynamic methods
<apeiros> method_missing is rubys counterpart to that
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<apeiros> it's invoked when no method of a given name is defined. first arg being the name, rest being the args as passed.
<pcfreak30> Thanks. I know enough to do what I need. I just barely know the language API's
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<m__s> i have question, if someone could help me. I have script to delete backups, at least im working on it. Here is a link - https://github.com/motoko-kusanagi/rb-admin-scripts/blob/dev/delete-old-backup.rb and I want to customize e-mail body. But I cant print array nicely inside e-mail body :-(
<m__s> line #43
<m__s> it gives me something like ["first element", "secont element"] i can't get it to print my files like first elemnt \n second element \n etc.
<m__s> or maybe i need to create string with \n elements in it
<m__s> ?
<apeiros> >> ["hi", "there", "buddy"].join("\n")
<eval-in> apeiros => "hi\nthere\nbuddy" (https://eval.in/83318)
<apeiros> m__s: ^
<m__s> apeiros: this would be too easy :)
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<m__s> i was trying to do something like #{files.join("\n"} but it doesnt work :(
<m__s> ill past you results in a sec
<apeiros> apart from the missing ), that's correct
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<m__s> well it doesnt
<m__s> 1min please and ill show you
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<apeiros> #{print_f(what)} # <-- that won't work since your print_f method does not return a string, it prints it
<apeiros> #{} inserts the return value, it doesn't care for things being printed in the code within it
<m__s> hm...
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<apeiros> it may appear to be somewhat working because the return value of print_f is `files`
<apeiros> >> ["hi", "there", "buddy"].to_s
<eval-in> apeiros => "[\"hi\", \"there\", \"buddy\"]" (https://eval.in/83319)
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<olivier_bK> i have a little problem that i can't found ttps://gist.github.com/zyriuse75/e653e1007fd47b366b66
<apeiros> that's what you'll get from it.
<olivier_bK> i dont know why he pass 2 time for backup databases ?
<apeiros> olivier_bK: sorry, not going to read badly indented code.
<m__s> apeiros: ill try to fix it in a second
<m__s> cheers
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<emocakes> omfg
<emocakes> what is that code
<emocakes> fix the indentation
<emocakes> oh god
<emocakes> my eyes
* emocakes hurts self
<popl> emocakes: Please stop using enter as punctuation.
<pcfreak30> And thats why I love IDE's
<emocakes> what do you
<emocakes> mean?
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<popl> I wish there were more ops in this channel.
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<popl> :P
<emocakes> popl, I'm from the United States of America, we have our own sort of english here. None of that sissy British English stuff, we beat you back in the war and we will do it again if you keep trying to trample my first amendment
<pcfreak30> Are classes able to run any function outside a def?
<popl> who?
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<emocakes> you heard me
<pcfreak30> As I see references to attr_accessor and methods like that a lot
<popl> emocakes: Your assumptions are utterly incorrect. You should shut up now.
<emocakes> pcfreak30 say what?
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<emocakes> popl but i love you
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<apeiros> pcfreak30: classes are objects, and therefore capable of running methods, yes.
<popl> apeiros: Is there a channel FAQ?
<pcfreak30> Seriously now your starting so sound like trolls I deal with alot emocakes
<emocakes> are you so blind that you can't see that? All i was doing was trying to help someone in this channel, and then you attack me, because i used the return key a few times too often
<m__s> apeiros: i did some thing like e_body << " #{line} \n" https://github.com/motoko-kusanagi/rb-admin-scripts/blob/dev/delete-old-backup.rb line #19-#20 is there any better option to do it?
<emocakes> pcfreak30, no i just didnt understand your question properly
<apeiros> popl: there have been a couple during the last 8 years. I don't think there's one right now :)
<pcfreak30> No
<pcfreak30> What you stated to popl
<popl> apeiros: Are there unofficial guidelines, then?
<emocakes> ofc, because I could care less what popl says about me being over zealous with my use of the enter key
<apeiros> popl: referring to behavior in channel?
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<pcfreak30> Just reminds me of dumb crap Ive gotten before I reliized a live chat client or skype contact was being a troll
<popl> Yessir.
<apeiros> popl: there's only a single guideline: don't be an ass :)
<emocakes> bbl, too many white knights in this channel at the moment
<apeiros> (yes, highly subjective, I know)
<olivier_bK> apeiros, sorry i completly missing to indented the code :(
<emocakes> better olivier_bK
<popl> apeiros: Would you say emocakes is being an ass, or would you suggest I am being overly-sensitive?
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<olivier_bK> sorry :(
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<apeiros> popl: borderline. annoying but not stepping over a line for me.
<popl> Ok.
<emocakes> thankyou apeiros, am I usually annoying though?
<emocakes> ask shevy, he loves me
<apeiros> emocakes: no idea. I don't keep tabs on such things
<apeiros> given that I don't have any memory of you being annoying, I'd say you're probably not :)
<popl> apeiros: any plans about a channel FAQ?
<emocakes> <3 @ apeiros, :p @ popl
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<popl> emocakes: I'm not even British. Idiot.
<emocakes> popl, you could just make a github account
<emocakes> popl, obviously not, and im not american
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<apeiros> popl: no plans, no
<emocakes> make a github account, make a repo and a doc called #ruby-FAQ, and then people can push stuff to it etc?
<popl> emocakes: Well if you try hard enough, maybe one day…
<emocakes> lol, please, I'd rather not be american
<emocakes> as in, I'm happily not american, nor do I aspire to be one
<emocakes> no offense to the americans here
<pcfreak30> That is ind of an insult
<olivier_bK> nobody know why he tell me two times backup of data base @uid_instance ?
<pcfreak30> as there is no problem with being american
<pcfreak30> politics aside
<emocakes> well, politics aside, and general ignorance
<emocakes> but those are all generalizations and stereotypes
<pcfreak30> But that can go into another #
<emocakes> lets just say, I'm happy that I can travel around the world without people disliking me
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<pcfreak30> emocakes: honestly
<popl> Are you sure?
<pcfreak30> That apples to every country
<pcfreak30> No matter where you go a country is gong to dislike atleast 1
<emocakes> of course
<pcfreak30> Your just lucky if your not from said country
<pcfreak30> :P
<popl> If we're going to defer to nationalistic stereotypes… Australians aren't universally liked. :P
<emocakes> I'm not australian
<emocakes> :)
<emocakes> I live here
<emocakes> luckily I have 3 passports
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<emocakes> so I take on whatever nationality I like hehe
<apeiros> you're a spy?
<pcfreak30> Why you you put the reverse code in a block?
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<emocakes> and they are all good countries, not a mix of 3rd world
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<emocakes> apeiros, if I told you, I'd have to kill you
<emocakes> ;)
<popl> third world is a dated concept
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<apeiros> emocakes: you couldn't, for I'm apeiros :-p
<pcfreak30> When you could just do persona = person.reverse
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<apeiros> pcfreak30: haven't read the whole, but I'd guess it's just an example.
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<apeiros> and as it is with examples, they're not always the best solution to a problem, just illustrating one tool to solve one.
<pcfreak30> I understand
<pcfreak30> Though Im trying to understand the correct use of blocks
<pcfreak30> coming from a c/php background
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<pcfreak30> c-based language
<apeiros> pcfreak30: they're like a convenient create_function of php
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<apeiros> and you can pass that function around
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<apeiros> which makes it easy to implement e.g. strategy patterns (see sort, sort_by, select, find etc.)
<pcfreak30> So they are basically anonymous ffunctions
<apeiros> yes
<emocakes> lambda functions?
<emocakes> why so many names
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<pcfreak30> Still not sure why you would need them if you can just call direct on the object, besides callbacks
<apeiros> given that ruby knows proc and lambda and both are very similar, I'd refrain from calling them lambda functions.
<emocakes> not really popl, you've obviously never been to africa
<emocakes> or some south east asian countries
<apeiros> yes, lambda functions, but in ruby terminology they're closer to procs.
<apeiros> pcfreak30: how would you write this in php: people.sort_by { |person| person.name }
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<apeiros> sorts an Array of Person instances by the return value of the method `name`.
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<apeiros> damn, soon I'll have to get out of this comfy bed :( (running out of juice and the power supply is in another room…)
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<pcfreak30> Decent example. In php I would have to get a separate array and keep in association with the object, sort, then recreate the orig array.
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<shevy> emocakes I love everything that is emo
<pcfreak30> Does ruby have actual namespaces besides modules to act as a pesudo namespace?
<shevy> pcfreak30 you can use a class as pseudo namespace as well, apeiros loves doing that ;-)
<pcfreak30> shevy: Thats were things confuse me. I have a good understandibg of stuff, but I get comfused when using classes for what I understand as a feature of a module
<emocakes> best show on tv at the moment
<emocakes> on sbs 2
<shevy> pcfreak30 yeah
<emocakes> about the crazy horse cabaret in paris
<emocakes> omfg
<emocakes> im going to paris
<apeiros> pcfreak30: well, Class inherits from Module
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<apeiros> so technically a class is a module
<emocakes> nsfw
<pcfreak30> shevy: how or why you you use a class to namespace, or nested classes over a module
<shevy> emocakes don't go to paris it has a problem. there are french!
<pcfreak30> apeiros: Which subclasses which?
<apeiros> it loses some of module's functionality, though (you can't use include/extend with a class)
<emocakes> I know :(
<shevy> pcfreak30 I? I don't. But others do.
<apeiros> Class < Module
<apeiros> >> Class.ancestors
<eval-in> apeiros => [Class, Module, Object, Kernel, BasicObject] (https://eval.in/83322)
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<shevy> pcfreak30 one reason is to use #new
<emocakes> thats alright shevy, france is having less french in it, and more africans and arabs
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<emocakes> so i'll be safe :p
<shevy> pcfreak30 because when you use a module Foo; end, you can not do Foo.new. With a class as namespace, you can
<pcfreak30> i mean why would you do class A class B end end
<shevy> A::B.new
<shevy> :)
<pcfreak30> over module A class B end end
<shevy> A.new too!
<apeiros> if you need A to be a class
<shevy> you got more features!
<apeiros> then you'd do that
<apeiros> if not, you'd not
<shevy> hehe
<emocakes> pcfreak30 find the book 'metaprogramming ruby'
<emocakes> it will show you a heap of cool things you can do thanks to the flexibility of ruby
<pcfreak30> emocakes: Eh I might. Though I might just find a PDF on google
<emocakes> i got mine on tpb i think
<pcfreak30> You really would be suprised how many random servers
<shevy> emotpb!
<apeiros> but generally you prefer A to be a module.
<pcfreak30> google indexes
<pcfreak30> to get a PDF of a book
<shevy> ah well
<shevy> IRC is like a book too
<pcfreak30> I can search a lot of PDF's and get a dowload right vbia search
<pcfreak30> via
<shevy> with lots of line noise
<pcfreak30> irs funny how many dont use a robots.txt
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<pcfreak30> hahahahaha
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<emocakes> i dont do SEO
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<emocakes> becaus eim stupid
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<pcfreak30> look
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<pcfreak30> Direct PDF download curtsy of google
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<emocakes> so who
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<emocakes> so who's running 2.1?
<emocakes> channel topic should be changed
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<pcfreak30> It never suprises me
<emocakes> ruby 2.1.0p0 (2013-12-25 revision 44422) [x86_64-darwin13.0]
<pcfreak30> You prob can get just about any PDF lie that
<pcfreak30> like
<emocakes> same with shemale porn pcfreak30
<emocakes> its amazing how much google indexes
<platzhirsch> I ran my Rails app with Ruby 2.1 and it seemed to load the pages faster, which would really astonish me
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<emocakes> platzhirsch, ruby 2.1 with puma
<emocakes> or puma with rbx :D
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<emocakes> 2.1 has a new GC doesn't it platzhirsch?
<pcfreak30> emocakes: except ebooks arent way as popular as porno nor are the offical file hosting sides dedicated to em
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<platzhirsch> emocakes: just WEBrick. Is puma is better development web server?
<pcfreak30> there*
<platzhirsch> emocakes: sure it does :)
<apeiros> platzhirsch: almost anything is better than webrick ;-)
<platzhirsch> well I guess you are right, it will start rightaway with GC'ing which means it will halt the execution
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<emocakes> it's easy, just add it to the gemfile and it works, kinda like using thin. If you use it in production, may as well use it in dev
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<platzhirsch> In any case, I think I can safely say then, that Ruby 2.1 rocks my world :D
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<emocakes> i moved from rvm to chruby when i upgraded
<shevy> emocakes I am still on 1.9.x until I found a solution for my yaml files
<emocakes> have to do it on the servers soon
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<emocakes> whats up with your yaml files shevy?
<shevy> they are non unicode and will have to remain that way. ruby psych refuses to load them
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<emocakes> even with a declaration at the start of them?
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<emocakes> can you send me one please
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<shevy> let me try to find one that leads to an encoding error
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<apeiros> shevy: you can "translate" them
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<apeiros> use the 'syck' gem, require it, change YAML::ENGINE.yamler = 'syck', load the yaml files, set YAML::ENGINE.yamler = 'psych', write the yaml files
<apeiros> -> your files are converted and psych proper
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<shevy> then the comments I have in the yaml files will be gone
<apeiros> oh, in 1.9 you don't even need to install the gem, I think
<apeiros> ah yes, that's true. those would have to be ported manually :-/
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<shevy> yeah, that is possible
<shevy> I mean, I can do that
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<shevy> I am trying to install all gems for 2.1.0 right now
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<apeiros> it's a bit sad that comments are not well defined in YAML. it'd be nice to be able to read a yaml file and write it back 1:1, including comments.
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<shevy> interesting error I just saw
<shevy> ERROR: While executing gem ... (NoMethodError)
<shevy> undefined method `full_name' for nil:NilClass
<shevy> aha
<shevy> this one fails:
<shevy> "gem install --ignore-dependencies coderay-1.1.0.gem"
<shevy> without --ignore-dependencies it works fine
<shevy> cool
<shevy> 2.1.0 brings new warnings
<shevy> -> "fragen.rb:8798: warning: encountered \r in middle of line, treated as a mere space"
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<pcfreak30> I dont get why you are able to run a method outside a def/method in a class/module
<shevy> emocakes, ok found a minimal example, a moment
<pcfreak30> like Module a testmethod end
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<platzhirsch> emocakes: Are you using JRuby or Rubinius? Or any other?
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<pcfreak30> Anyone help on that question?
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<shevy> emocakes, hmm can you try this? http://members.a1.net/shevegen/amino_acids.yml if you can convert it into UTF, it's ISO-8859-1 right now
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<shevy> pcfreak30 nono you mean this
<shevy> def foo; puts 'foo'; end; foo
<shevy> that this works, right?
<shevy> pcfreak30 the methods in ruby are always attached somewhere
<emocakes> ok
<emocakes> hold up
<emocakes> you from austria shevy?
<pcfreak30> no
<shevy> pcfreak30 in a new .rb file, if you add a method, it somehow gets attached to class Object I think, but as private or hidden or something like that
<emocakes> <3
<shevy> emocakes yeah
<pcfreak30> basically
<emocakes> österreich <3
<emocakes> my cousin is in Linz
<shevy> cool
<emocakes> I was in Linz for a while last year or the year before
<pcfreak30> If you look there you see newfunction() is ram wiyjout being in a method itself
<shevy> the mini-towns :P
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<pcfreak30> That is normally not possible in c-based langs
<shevy> pcfreak30 where is that
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<shevy> ah I see
<shevy> it's a method:
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<shevy> module Puppet::Parser::Functions
<shevy> newfunction(:write_line_to_file) do |args|
<shevy> pcfreak30 I am sure if you look at the source, you can find a method called newfunction() inside of Functions
<shevy> pcfreak30 so you simply invoke it there in that example
<shevy> and it makes use of an associated block, the part between do/end
<shevy> odd name for a method btw
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<shevy> >> def this_is_a_function; puts 'yup it is a function'; end; this_is_a_function()
<eval-in> shevy => yup it is a function ... (https://eval.in/83340)
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<emocakes> shevy do you want to convert it with code?
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<pcfreak30> shevy: But what I am referring to is thats basically running class something { runmethod()}
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<pcfreak30> Which cant work in php
<emocakes> irb(main):012:0> YAML.load_file('/Users/Mac/Desktop/amino_acids.yml')
<emocakes> => {"Asp"=>"Asparaginsäure"}
<shevy> huh
<shevy> why does that work for you
<emocakes> i converted it without ruby
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<shevy> aaaah
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<shevy> how did you convert it?
<emocakes> just saved as UTF with BOM.
<pcfreak30> From wat im reading its calling a method procedurally in a module outside a method
<emocakes> from sublime, try it
<emocakes> for one of the files that errors for you
<emocakes> utf-8 with bom
<emocakes> or send me all your files and I will do it for you
<shevy> pcfreak30 I am not sure what you are saying. I am not even sure I understand your example? { foo() } seems to be a method invocation inside of a block
<emocakes> because you have always been nice to me <3
<shevy> emocakes my brain is still stuck at trying to process
<shevy> let me first get sublime
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<jezen> hey guys
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<jezen> how would I turn ["foo", "bar"] into "foo", "bar"
<jezen> ?
<jezen> essentially .to_s, but also removing the brackets
<pcfreak30> Cant tab in editor there
<shevy> pcfreak30 the method must exist
<pcfreak30> Basically I understand overriding run, to call a method, but not just flst calling outside any method
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<pcfreak30> Which may as well be outside a module
<shevy> see
<shevy> if the method does not exist
<shevy> you would get an error:
<shevy> NoMethodError: undefined method `run_function_a' for Test:Module
<shevy> pcfreak30, look at this example:
<shevy> >> module X; def foo; puts 'HI'; end; foo; end
<eval-in> shevy => undefined local variable or method `foo' for X:Module (NameError) ... (https://eval.in/83341)
<shevy> and now
<shevy> >> module X; def self.foo; puts 'HI'; end; foo; end
<eval-in> shevy => HI ... (https://eval.in/83342)
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<jezen> got it working with ["foo", "bar"].to_s[1..-2]
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<shevy> in your example module Test; run_function_a(); end, run_function_a() must have been defined somewhere. you just don't show where in the code you gave
<pcfreak30> shevy: You are missing the point
<shevy> it's a normal method call
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<pcfreak30> in that example its calling a method
<pcfreak30> while not being inside any method
<shevy> yes because it was instructed to run it
<pcfreak30> Which in a normal c lsng isnt possible
<pcfreak30> if in a class
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<shevy> >> def bar; puts 'HI'; end; class Foo; bar; end
<eval-in> shevy => HI ... (https://eval.in/83343)
<pcfreak30> yes thats what I mean
<pcfreak30> I dont get why you are ale to call a method while not in the context of a method
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<pcfreak30> its basically like <?php class Test { $thid->runfunction(); } ?>
<pcfreak30> $this*
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<pcfreak30> which would not work
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<apeiros> pcfreak30: ruby isn't a normal C style lang
<pcfreak30> but <?php class Test { function runfunction(){} runfunctionfuncyoon __construct(){$this->runfunction();} } ?>
<apeiros> pcfreak30: class definitions are normal code
<apeiros> everywhere where you run code, you're within an object
<apeiros> or in other words: self is defined everywhere
<pcfreak30> <?php class Test { function runfunction(){} function __construct(){$this->runfunction();} } ?>
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<apeiros> >> class Test; p self; end
<eval-in> apeiros => Test ... (https://eval.in/83344)
<apeiros> within a class body, self is the class itself
<pcfreak30> apeiros: I know its not, im just trying to understand how it works rather than blindly using it
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<apeiros> pcfreak30: and I'm explaining just that to you right now ;-)
<pcfreak30> i know, so thanks
<apeiros> so `class Test; foo; end`, the foo() call there is Test.foo (since method calls without receiver are invoked on `self`)
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<pcfreak30> are you able to override a method on a module/class
<apeiros> depends on what you understand as "override"
<pcfreak30> in the same way you can redefine js functions
<apeiros> you can a) redefine every method at any time
<emocakes> let me know shevy
<apeiros> and you can b) define a method in a subclass which takes precedence over the inherited method (and the inherited method is still callable via super)
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<apeiros> >> class X; def foo; "foo1"; end; def foo; "foo2"; end; end; X.new.foo
<eval-in> apeiros => "foo2" (https://eval.in/83345)
<apeiros> the first definition of `foo` here is lost, as I redefined X#foo later
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<apeiros> `X#foo` is documentation lingo for "instance method `foo` of class X" - `X::foo` would denominate a "class method `foo` on class X"
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<apeiros> >> class X; end; X.is_a?(Object)
<eval-in> apeiros => true (https://eval.in/83346)
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<shevy> emocakes hmm ... odd. sublime seems to display this all just fine in UTF, my current editor does not
<emocakes> which editor is that?
<emocakes> :p
<emocakes> maybe it's time to change editor
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<emocakes> if the editor you are using doesnt work with UTF then its time to say goodbye
<emocakes> up to you though ofc
<shevy> emocakes ancient bluefish 1.0.7
<shevy> I assume it works fine, the display is just odd
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<shevy> sublime displays umlauts properly, even UTF ones
<shevy> bluefish 1.0.7 only displays umlauts properly in non UTF encoding
<shevy> saying goodbye is so hard :(
<shevy> it's almost ten years now!
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<emocakes> sublime is insanely powerful shevy
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<emocakes> one of the few pieces of software i've paid for
<shevy> but ... but ...
<shevy> it's so different!
<emocakes> i know
* emocakes comforts emoshevy
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<emocakes> rubymine is nice as well, I use it for rails as it ties in nicely
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<emocakes> didint pay for that one yet, keygenned
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<WJW> >> 1 + 1
<eval-in> WJW => 2 (https://eval.in/83349)
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<emocakes> >> `uptime`
<eval-in> emocakes => (https://eval.in/83350)
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<emocakes> what sort of work do you do shevy?
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<txdv> railz?
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<emocakes> and also, why do you use bluefish? :p
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<WJW> pcfreak30, do you still have a question about code inside class and module declarations/reopenings?
<pcfreak30> Still slightly curious as why you would want to nest classes
<WJW> I nest classes because I want a whole system of classes that only the outer class will use.
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<apeiros> class MyProtocoll; class SomeError < StandardError; end; end
<apeiros> f.ex.
<apeiros> you don't want SomeError to be toplevel
<apeiros> and you don't want to make MyProtocoll a module, because then you'd need another class, MyProtocoll::Implementation (or whatever)
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<apeiros> if you have a case where you want to nest classes, you'll notice. until you do - just be aware that it is possible.
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<WJW> Ruby is a lot more Smalltalk-like than C-like.
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<WJW> But Ruby has extra features and conveniences that Smalltalk does not have.
<txdv> C like?
<txdv> wtf?
<txdv> what part of ruby is c like
<emocakes> everything is a class pcfreak30
<emocakes> :p
<WJW> Someone earlier was talking about C-like languages.
<emocakes> even true and false
<txdv> it doesnt even have ++
<emocakes> the fact that true is an instance of trueclass
<apeiros> txdv: ruby has variables, like C!
<apeiros> ;-)
<emocakes> should be enough to know that you can next classes
<txdv> apeiros: what languages do not have variables?
<txdv> prolog?
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<WJW> Joy.
<pcfreak30> emocakes: i know you can. I just dont get why vs a class in a module
<apeiros> txdv: SQL?
<emocakes> because you might want to have some logic in that outer class
<emocakes> exotic way of inheritance i guess
<txdv> apeiros: you can write functions with variables in mysql
<apeiros> prolog - no idea, that's been like 10 years and I didn't like it
<apeiros> txdv: that's afaik not standard sql, though
<txdv> I guess if you talk about the pure SQL queries then you might be right
<WJW> Prolog has logical variables.
<apeiros> txdv: you can do in pl/sql too
<txdv> but nested queries kind act as variables
<apeiros> and/or pgplsql
<apeiros> but they aren't :)
<txdv> and sql is not a programming language you want to write a web server with
<txdv> just query data
<WJW> Joy may have some add-on or module or corner that can define and query "variables", but Joy fundamentally doesn't need variables.
<apeiros> that's just like saying methods as arguments to methods are variables
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<txdv> one of those ((())) languages
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<cout> sonic?
<WJW> Traditionally, Lisp has variables.
<txdv> so they basically just dont add the functionality to create variables
<txdv> and voila you have a functional lisp dialect
<WJW> I have an idea to manipulate code as graphs, but I haven't carried through on it yet, so don't know yet whether it's as good an idea as I think it is.
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<WJW> In "source code" as a graph, an edge could function as a parameter and so the parameter would not have a name inherent to this "source" code.
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<txdv> sounds like a good language to write code of massive interconnected event/reaction based programms
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<WJW> My motivation for it is that I want to convert code in a concurrent constraint language into code in a functional language.
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<WJW> The graph is for representing "source" code. It has nothing to do with the runtime environment.
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<WJW> I want to convert the code in the functional language into Javascript.
<WJW> lazy concurrent constraint code -> lazy functional code -> strict functional code -> JS
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<emocakes> why?
<emocakes> why move away from something good
<emocakes> to JS?
<emocakes> lol
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<WJW> Because JS is executable.
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<txdv> because javascript is just a runtime
<WJW> JS will run in the browser and it will run on the server.
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<Hanmac1> i have seen a ruby implmentation in javascript ;P
<WJW> Yeah, Hanmac1, that's pretty cool.
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<Hanmac1> WJW: did you know that you can run mruby inside an EFI shell? ;P
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<WJW> Don't know what EFI is and I'm about to go AFK.
<emocakes> WJW sounds like a bunch of bs
<emocakes> well, hype
<emocakes> JS runs on the server and the browser
<emocakes> wow
<emocakes> so does Dart
<emocakes> learn Dart
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<Hanmac> WJW: http://masamitsu-murase.github.io/mruby_on_efi_shell/ << means you can run ruby without a real OS ;P
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<WJW> I'll have to check that later.
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<txdv> everything that has a 2js compiler runs on the server and the browser
<txdv> javascript has become the bitch of the programming languages
<WJW> AFK for about 6 hours.
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<shevy> hmm
<shevy> I dont like javascript
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<txdv> why not?
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<shevy> txdv it seems to be extremely limited, more verbose than it should be, less flexible and dynamic as ruby on the whole level
<shevy> and the syntax is more annoying than in ruby as well
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<shevy> string.delete('"') is the same as string.gsub(/"/,'') right?
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<apeiros> result is the same, yes
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<DouweM> Huh, I've never seen String#delete before
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<shevy> In the past I always thought that delete() would remove the specific character set
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<shevy> "abcdefab".delete 'abc' # I thought it would get rid only of the leading 'abc'
<shevy> >> "abcdefab".delete 'abc'
<eval-in> shevy => "def" (https://eval.in/83376)
<apeiros> yeah, I think #delete is a bad name for what it does.
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<apeiros> more like #delete_chars or somesuch
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<Jabberwock> Nokogiri DoS: http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/64513
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<shevy> hmm
<shevy> they seem to prefer short methods
<shevy> I also noticed that File.exists? is now File.exist?
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<txdv> Does the file exist vs file exists
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<Hanmac1> shevy in the next version it will be replaced with File.exis? ;P
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<apeiros> Fi.ex?
<shevy> txdv yeah, the way to query is "Object, do you exist?". apeiros explained that once
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<simon___> Howdie!
<simon___> I have a hash like so, {:a=>{:aa=>1, :ab=>2}, :b=>{:ba=>3, :bb=>4}}
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<apeiros> shevy: correct. but even ruby core is incosistent in that regard :-/
<simon___> Is there any nitfy feature I can use to get a list from that that looks something like this? ["a.aa=1", 'a.ab=2", "b.ba=3", "b.bb=4"]
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<apeiros> simon___: no, you'll have to program that
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<Hanmac1> shevy, and the object says: "How should i know that?"
<apeiros> depending on how deep your nesting can be it'll be easier or a little bit harder
<simon___> apeiros: okoko, should be simple enough.
<simon___> Thanks.
<apeiros> yw
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<txdv> the design of some ruby core libs are hidious
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<rhhr> has anybody tried scraping emails out of Facebook? *research only8
<rejuvyesh> Hello everyone!
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<rejuvyesh> I am pretty new to ruby and decided to learn it for building a wrapper around mpv:https://github.com/rejuvyesh/rmpv
<txdv> dont use facebook
<txdv> nsa and shit
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<rejuvyesh> Any suggestions or criticisms would be helpful. They would only help me improve.
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<Hanmac1> simon___: how many layers can it have? alos something like "a,bb.ccc.ddd.eee" ?
<txdv> ruby should have a good libuv wrapper
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<simon___> Hanmac1: either "a.b=value or a.b.c=value"
<shevy> txdv most of these libs are ancient
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<simon___> Or is should say "a.b=value or c.x.y=value"
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<txdv> what i hate most is the lack of IPEndPoint which would hold an ip address and a port
<txdv> that dns tool returns a struct like that, but all the other sockets need 2 seperate arguments
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<Hanmac2> >> def f(h,ks=[]);h.each_with_object({}) {|(k,v),n|v.is_a?(Hash) ? n.merge!(f(v,ks + [k])) : n[(ks + [k]).join(".")]=v};end;f({:a=>{:aa=>1, :ab=>2}, :b=>{:ba=>3, :bb=>4}})
<eval-in> Hanmac2 => {"a.aa"=>1, "a.ab"=>2, "b.ba"=>3, "b.bb"=>4} (https://eval.in/83385)
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<simon___> Hanmac2: beutiful! :) I was writing roughly the same thing.
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<simon___> Yours is shorter though.
<simon___> :)
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<Hanmac2> simon___: a little bit more shorter:
<Hanmac2> >> def f(h,ks=[]);h.is_a?(Hash) ? h.each_with_object({}) {|(k,v),n| n.merge!(f(v,ks + [k]))} : {ks.join(".")=>h};end;f({:a=>{:aa=>1, :ab=>2}, :b=>{:ba=>3, :bb=>4}})
<eval-in> Hanmac2 => {"a.aa"=>1, "a.ab"=>2, "b.ba"=>3, "b.bb"=>4} (https://eval.in/83387)
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<txdv> wtf is this
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<shevy> lol
<shevy> that is Hanmac style
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<txdv> make ruby look like perl?
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<Hanmac> it seems that freenode does not like my code without spaces ;P
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<txdv> 420 symbol irc limitation?
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<txdv> and your nick is included
<txdv> i have a short nick i can write more symbols
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<shevy> txdv the equivalent perl code would be worse
<shevy> all variables need $
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<Mage_Dude> If --trace doesn't provide any additional details on an error (no such file or directory), is there another way to get more detail on a specific variable that might help work out the cause?
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<apeiros> Mage_Dude: debugging. as in: dig in the code, emit relevant data, and/or use something like pry, best with pry-byebug
<Mage_Dude> I'll peek. Thanks.
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<mixonic> opinion time: with the release of 2.1.0, is it appropriate to drop support for 1.9.2 in my gem?
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<ddd> i'd say wait for 2.1.2. most will probably be on 1.9.3 and 2.0.x. waiting to 2.1.2 means you evenly support 2 major versions to equal minor levels. know what i mean?
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<ddd> 1.9.2 -> 2.0.2 -> 2.1.2. then 1.9.3 -> 2.0.3 -> 2.1.3 etc. follow my pattern?
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<ddd> 1.9.3 will be in use for quite some time even with 2.1 being released. takes time to eval compatability, and change the underlying ruby
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<mixonic> hm
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<ddd> just a suggstion with rational for suggestion. feel free to ignore.
<ddd> s/al/ale/
<mixonic> no, thanks for the suggestion.
<ddd> np
<mixonic> it looks like Rails 3 + postgres might be the problem anyway
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<ddd> ah so it targets rails? thats a bit harder because people upgrade rails slower than they do rubies
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<mixonic> yeah but I'll just release a new major version
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<mixonic> since I am unsure it ever worked correctly for them in the past
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<ddd> can always make it an interim release. notification that you'r planning on dropping specific support and add deprecations wher you're changing
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<Notte> Hi
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<IceDragon> Hiya, anyone know an alternative to the mmap gem?
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<IceDragon> Currently it won't compile for ruby 1.9 and up
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<Iszak> IceDragon maybe raise an issue?
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<IceDragon> true!
<Iszak> IceDragon or maybe post the output of the failed build
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<IceDragon> It was for a friend of mine, seems like I'm the code fairy lately or something
<IceDragon> Wait, lemme call my friend over
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<IceDragon> Iszak meet FenixFyreX
<FenixFyreX> Hello :O
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<Iszak> Hi, I can't guarantee I can help you, just suggesting alternatives.
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<Iszak> I don't even have a windows machine.
<FenixFyreX> lol, okay. Any help will do.
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<FenixFyreX> What I'm trying to do is either find a replacement for mmap on windows, or recreate the same functionality. I only want to access pieces of files at a time, instead of loading the file into memory and grabbing pieces from the whole. That is entirely too slow on a frame by frame basis for files larger than x MB.
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<shevy> hey IceDragon
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<shevy> the coding fairy
* IceDragon waves his ruby staff
<IceDragon> wassup?
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<shevy> lol
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<shevy> ruby wang
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<IceDragon> :x
<shevy> ok now that 2.1 is out
<shevy> when will we have RubyOS?
<IceDragon> Just a few lines in, and I'm cringing already
<IceDragon> shevy: Lets start by rewriting GCC using ruby!
<IceDragon> and then using it to recompile ruby!
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<IceDragon> We shall call it RCC (an r++)
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<shevy> hmm quick offtopic question... anyone using sublime and know if you can run a system command in sublime? I would have to do this: "sublime $BLA/lala.rb" as example, within an editor (sublime in this example)
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<shevy> IceDragon why GCC rather than clang?
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<IceDragon> I have no idea, I use clang and gcc
<IceDragon> But gcc just rolls off my keyboard much easier
<IceDragon> :x
<shevy> Hanmac, in eclipse... can you open files in a terminal inside of eclipse?
<shevy> yeah good point
<shevy> clang is like spread out all the way across
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<shevy> gcc is neat and tidy on the left side
<shevy> if I will ever make a compiler, I will call it
<shevy> QyAPlM
<shevy> precisely that way to type as well
<IceDragon> o-e
<IceDragon> I like clang's output
<IceDragon> its pretty
<IceDragon> :D
<IceDragon> But GCC has the more solid build...
<IceDragon> ;_; Why can't I have GCC with clang colored output?
<shevy> and it's been around for a long time
<shevy> the bugs are well known
<IceDragon> and clang's compilation speed
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<shevy> because nobody changes ancient software IceDragon
<shevy> like cmake is coloured and GNU autoconfigure will never be
<Norrin> gcc ancient? new builds all the time
* IceDragon facedesks
<IceDragon> I think he means the code base is ancient
<IceDragon> nobody likes touching things over 10 years old
<IceDragon> ...
<IceDragon> That came out wrong ;x
<DouweM> haha
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<shevy> lol
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<IceDragon> shevy: pass me the rope
<shevy> that's almost bash.org worthy
<IceDragon> I need to hang myself now
<shevy> no, you deserve immortality man
<IceDragon> xD
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<shevy> guys
<shevy> can one of you who uses a lots of tests tell me
<shevy> do tests help when you want to rewrite a project from scratch?
<shevy> *a lot of tests
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<IceDragon> shevy: It helps when you already know what to expect, as in rewriting an API
<shevy> hmm
<shevy> I am porting an old project right now
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<shevy> but I try to think ahead... what if I am in the same situation in 5 years from now on
<shevy> I don't even know if I am losing functionality along the way really :(
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<IceDragon> shevy: I rewrote my Reaktor gem, 3 times in less than a month :x
<IceDragon> It did the same thing 3 different ways
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<shevy> hmm
<shevy> yeah
<shevy> more than one way to do it, so let's try out other ways...
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<shevy> if I could only avoid that annoying time until a rewrite is done
<shredding> If i got this: 'abc'['c'].chr - the "chr" is redundant in ruby 2.0?
<shredding> I tested it and it's the same result.
<shredding> I just wonder if i overlook sth
<IceDragon> #chr is normally used with Integers
<IceDragon> >> 38.chr
<eval-in> IceDragon => "&" (https://eval.in/83438)
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<IceDragon> >> "&".chr
<eval-in> IceDragon => "&" (https://eval.in/83439)
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<shredding> Thanks.
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<shevy> IceDragon are you good with markdown markup?
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<IceDragon> nope
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<mgberlin> is Array a subclass of Enumerable?
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<havenwood> mgberlin: Array includes Enumerable.
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<mgberlin> so they are equal on the class heirarchy?
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<havenwood> mgberlin: This diagram may help show it a bit: http://www.gliffy.com/go/publish/5152080
<mgberlin> ah, enumerable is a module… ?
<havenwood> mgberlin: yes
<havenwood> mgberlin: Hence it being included rather than inherited from.
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<mgberlin> cool, got it, thx.
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<mgberlin> what language is the enumerable source code written in?
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<havenwood> mgberlin: C, in the reference implementation at least.
<havenwood> mgberlin: Java in JRuby, etc.
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<mgberlin> so can a module be written in any language?
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<havenwood> mgberlin: Not sure I quite understand what you're asking?
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<mgberlin> could I write a module in, say, VB.net, just to be random, and then be able to include it in a class I write in ruby?
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<havenwood> mgberlin: You can write C/Java extensions, use FFI, RedBridge to get at JVM langs, I know there is IronRuby for .Net but I don't follow it and I don't think it's particularly popular.
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<havenwood> mgberlin: But yeah, should be able to do such things with IronRuby. I'd think probably not a well beaten path though, little overlap between VB.net and Ruby communities
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<mgberlin> havenwood: so it's more complicated than just saving a .vb file and being able to reference it. that's enough of an answer for me right now, thanks.
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<havenwood> mgberlin: np, yes for .vb i know of no "easy" way
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<shevy> that would be cool
<shevy> we could use all of .Net that way
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<law> hey all, silly question. I'm trying to remove enclosing quotes, commas, and whitespace from a string
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<law> mystring = " \"some persons name\","
<law> I've taken it pretty far, but it looks ugly
<law> I've got: mystring.tr '"',""
<Mon_Ouie> You can use delete(pattern) instead of tr(pattern, "")
<law> which removes the quotes, but leaves the whitespace and the comma. I figure I can do '.strip' to remove the whitespace, but if I do a second tr it errors
<law> difficulty - this is ruby 1.8.7 :-/
<Mon_Ouie> #delete was already in 1.8
<Mon_Ouie> And what error do you get?
<law> with tr, I was getting ' syntax error, unexpected ',', expecting keyword_end'
<Hanmac> law 1.8.7 is dead
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<law> with delete, I get ' unterminated string meets end of file'
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<Mon_Ouie> Those are syntax errors, you're just writing your strings wrong
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<law> hah, fair enough
<Mon_Ouie> >> " \"some persons name\",".delete("'\",").strip
<eval-in> Mon_Ouie => "some persons name" (https://eval.in/83516)
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<Mon_Ouie> (well, maybe it shouldn't delete ', not sure about that)
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<law> what I'm trying to do is this:
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<law> I need to take SOME of those fields, and pop them into a template (heredoc would be just fine) that spits out the data below
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<law> the "id" field would be the "login" on the bottom, the 'comment' field would be the 'realname', etc
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<davidcelis> Isnt' #dup not supposed to maintain frozen status?
<law> I'm parsing this thing line by line, splitting on :, and trying to clean up what I can before sticking this thing in my hash
<davidcelis> I have a frozen Hash and when I call dup on it, the resulting duplicate is still frozen.
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<law> that... sounds wrong
<Mon_Ouie> law: This looks like JSON, use a JSON parser
<law> o rly?
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<law> ok, so pardon my ignorance, but how do I actually make use of that information? I'm a sysadmin, so while I know kinda/sorta what JSON/YAML, etc, *are*, I don't really know much about using it
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<Mon_Ouie> This is a very common data format, and there are existing libraries to parse them properly
<Mon_Ouie> I think there's a JSON parser in stdlib now, so you should be able to do something like require 'json'; JSON.parse(the_string) and get a hash back
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<Mon_Ouie> (Well, it wasn't in stdlib in 1.8, but as Hanmac said, 1.8.7 is past end of life)
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<Mon_Ouie> davidcelis: It shouldn't do that
<Mon_Ouie> >> {}.freeze.dup.frozen?
<eval-in> Mon_Ouie => false (https://eval.in/83526)
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<davidcelis> > params.frozen? #=> true
<davidcelis> > params.dup.frozen? #=> true
<davidcelis> :(
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<Hanmac> davidcelis: what class is params?
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<davidcelis> oh i see what's goin gon
<davidcelis> it's not actually a hash
<davidcelis> it's a proxy to a hash that has method_missing.
<law> oh god, this is so much easier
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<Hanmac> with ruby nearly everything "is so much easier" ;P
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<law> so, I've read my file in and parsed it
<KK4MGV> is there a cleaner way to do https://linx.li/selif/foo.rb?
<law> contents = File.open(blargh).read
<law> injson = JSON.parse(contents)
<law> and pp injson shows me my hashes
<law> do I just print the values with "puts injson[:keyname]" ?
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<Mon_Ouie> "keyname", but yes
<law> hrmm
<KK4MGV> the goal is to try to do $thing which requires $condition, and if $thing fails, then try to satisfy $condition, and retry $thing, and if it still fails, then give up
<law> I'm getting blanks with :keyname
<law> and with just injson[keyname] I'm getting undefined local variable or method errors
<Mon_Ouie> That's because the keys in your hash are strings, not symbols
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<Mon_Ouie> injson["keyname"]
<KK4MGV> the reason i'm doing it like this is because the best way to see if $condition is met is to just try $thing and see if it works
<law> booyah
<law> thanks!
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<Mon_Ouie> KK4MGV: I'm not exactly sure what you're doing, but there's a retry keyword that you might be able to use
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<law> if I want to print this out in a HEREDOC, what;s the syntax?
<apeiros> 21:29 law: contents = File.open(blargh).read # <-- horrible
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<apeiros> seriously, don't leave files open. also, File.read(path) exists.
<law> ${injson["comment"]} ?
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<Mon_Ouie> #{injson["comment"]}, as in other strings
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<law> thanks for the heads up apeiros. Closing it will be shortly, but I'll definitely use that shorter .read method
<law> thanks Mon_Ouie
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<apeiros> law: with File.open(foo).read you can't close it anymore.
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<apeiros> you're left to hope that the finalizer will kick in
<apeiros> which is not defined when it will happen
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<shevy> apeiros I keep on forgetting because I think I asked you before... you are not using rubygems.org with your gems right?
<apeiros> shevy: of course I use rubygems.org
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<shevy> oh yeah
<shevy> found ya through butler just now
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<depesz> hi. I;m trying to read gziped file, and foudn that I can do it by using Zlib::GzipReader. but when i try to use it, I get: NoMethodError: undefined method `GzipReader' for Zlib:Module
<depesz> what am I doing wrong?
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<Mon_Ouie> Zlib::GZipReader is a class, not a method
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<depesz> all clear. forgot .new :(
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<lxsameer> hi , is there any log highlighter gem ?
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<slash_nick> yep, grep: http://linuxcommando.blogspot.com/2007/10/grep-with-color-output.html ... okay so it's not a gem
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<shevy> hehe
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<slash_nick> best used with cat and tail
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<pontiki> hi folx
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<shevy> hmm who of you dared to create a game in ruby
<Authenti1ator> When I populate a large hash and fork, then add to the hash, does this CoW the entire hash? I've tried an experiment by forking 100 times vs forking 100 times AND overwriting a single hash key. It seems no slower which seems to indicate only the one key gets rewritten...?
<slash_nick> shevy: a friend of mine... https://github.com/rclements/hero_game ... he used gosu
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<slash_nick> not sure he ever worked out points/scoring/win/lose/whatever scenarios
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<slash_nick> says he's got some improvements to push... can edit levels, can shoot...
<slash_nick> next up is being able to destroy enemies and enemies that shoot back
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<Hanmac> i worked recently with a binding for sfml but it may not finish yet
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<slash_nick> I'd love if someone could use my konamio gem in one of their games... something like: https://github.com/rthbound/hero_game/blob/10346cb8227dc5dddf4a37d5e568bc37b4b6d1b8/lib/game.rb#L62-L70
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<shevy> Hanmac, only a few more days
<shevy> for a release of wxwidgets
<shevy> in 2013
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<shevy> slash_nick, yeah I had a look. it depends on jruby though :(
<Hanmac> wxwidgets is already released in 2013, but rwx need to wait
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<shevy> what is sfml?
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<Hanmac> shevy: http://en.sfml-dev.org
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<platzhirsch> So are you all enjoying Ruby 2.1?
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<shevy> platzhirsch I am on 1.9
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<platzhirsch> I feel dizzy
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<shevy> stop spinning around in your chair?
<shevy> :D
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* Hanmac1 is currently building 2.2 ruby
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<shevy> wtf
<shevy> does 2.2 even exist right now?
<ddd> err? if it does i want a crack at it
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