havenwood changed the topic of #ruby to: Rules & more: https://ruby-community.com || Ruby 2.4.1, 2.3.4 & 2.2.7: https://www.ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text to: https://gist.github.com || Rails questions? Ask in: #RubyOnRails || Logs: https://irclog.whitequark.org/ruby || Books: https://goo.gl/wpGhoQ
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<pinksandles> not straight fwd to fix. sorry
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<pinksandles> you basically need a key check that is: is_a? instead of ==.
<funkytwig> Just had a go with arcadia, like it but the font is VERRY small and no preffs to change.
<nymous> np, your implementation at least inspired me to a much cleaner approach
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<nymous> pinksandles: no, i meant if i have a base class with attributes and subclass it, a child's self.class would point to another key in TYPE_MAP
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<pinksandles> right, so the key check needs to take into account that self.class may be an ancestor of some other key
<pinksandles> it's not straight fwd
<nymous> yeah
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<pinksandles> subclass of some other key*
<nymous> i also thought about making validators an instance val instead of global const
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<pinksandles> you should go with what's most simple
<nymous> would also need to clone them on inherited
<pinksandles> & my solution isnt that simple.
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<nymous> well, my previous attempt were even worse lol
<pinksandles> relatively simple but could be overkill. there may be a more classical solution.
<nymous> your solution could be tweaked by checking all ancestors' validations
<nymous> i'm unsure if it cleaner or not against instance vals
<pinksandles> you might end up in a hole but sure give it a shot
<pinksandles> it can become really complicated
<pinksandles> when you get into ancestors
<pinksandles> like, say a superclass has a key,and so does a subclass. do you always go to the superclass?
<pinksandles> by logic of inheritance you'd go to the subclass and then the parent.
<pinksandles> and at that point, is it not easier to just have a bunch of helper functions?
<nymous> oh, simplest possible approach is to check if we have a validator for this class, if not check parent, if not check parent... etc
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<pinksandles> yeah
<nymous> but i would do that really a lot of times
<pinksandles> i mean go for it. if you're into it.
<nymous> this doesn't make me feel comfortable, as i have a little assembler experience and worry about doing non-profitable things many times)
<pinksandles> maybe because its 1am and im tired, but i wouldnt wanna bother at that point anymore. id try rethink i have to be something more simple
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<nymous> i did helper approach, but it turns out to be even more complex
<nymous> or it was just my bad design haha
<pinksandles> you could just have a function, in `#initialize`, assert_types({foo: String}, attributes)
<nymous> i mean when i'm in a base class, i completely ok with helper functions and all they work ok
<nymous> but in a child i can't get a simple solution to just add yet another test
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<pinksandles> don't see how assert_types couldn't work: def assert_types(restrictions, attributes); restrictions.each{|k,v| attributes[k].class == v or raise(TypeError, 'blah')}; end
<pinksandles> then just call it in each initialize
<funkytwig> join /#arcadiaide
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<funkytwig> join /#arcadiaide
<funkytwig> join /#arcadia
<pinksandles> the / goes before join
<nymous> it's not in an initialize, but a method
<pinksandles> right, doesn't matter. you can even look up the instance variable table dynamically if you have to.
<pinksandles> Hash[instance_variables.map{|x| [x, instance_variable_get(:"@#{x}")}]
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<pinksandles> that can be 'attributes'
<nymous> well, the approach i'm trying to implement is a simple chain of validators, which is checked once in a base class, all i want is a simple and clean approach to add more validations into subclasses
<nymous> then i wrote i just realized that i can just have a setup_validators method and super it in subclasses
<pinksandles> right, so you can implement validations in Proc's, and use those in assert_types or assert_validations too. if you want to keep it as simple as possible.
<pinksandles> sure
<pinksandles> works
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<nymous> haha, it would be 10x times simpler
<nymous> damn, i'm stupid
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<pinksandles> oops. forgot the raise, if condition is false - then raise TypeError
<pinksandles> re-usable and simple
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<nymous> my stupid approach
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<pinksandles> 1sec
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<pinksandles> ah. Numeric tho
<pinksandles> yea. you'll have to use something more specific, because the check is ==, not is_a?
<pinksandles> but otherwise it'll work
<pinksandles> try Integer instead
<nymous> well, i got your point
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<pinksandles> cool
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<nymous> well, i also made mine approach even simpler https://gist.github.com/divanikus/a847ff7f9db503f940bae7d6d796a2cc
<Radar> Congrats you've re-implemented dry-types and dry-validations.
<pinksandles> hum.
<pinksandles> option :mute, TrueClass, FalseClass
<pinksandles> return if value.nil?
<adam12> lol
<pinksandles> not sure if it makes sense.
<pinksandles> but looks good
<pinksandles> @Radar, yeah, in 20 lines of code, and he appears new to Ruby, so congrats is right!!
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<Radar> https://gist.github.com/divanikus/a847ff7f9db503f940bae7d6d796a2cc#file-tst-rb-L18 I would suggest an if / none? combination here instead of unless / any?
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<Radar> And I would suggest raising a different exception than "ArgumentError" on the line underneath that.
<nymous> well, i'm not very new to ruby, but mostly use it for small console tools with rake and thor
<nymous> so I mostly avoid using gems in favor of stdlib
<pinksandles> still impressive. you've created something perfect for your needs, and without a bunch of crap. if only more rails dev did that.
<Radar> So dismissive.
<Radar> My fav thing with dry-types / dry-validations is that it's code that I don't have to maintain myself.
<nymous> Radar: what exception would you suggest?
<Radar> nymous: Create one of your own.
<nymous> as for nil, it is a desired behaviour
<pinksandles> sure. virtus/dry-* is cool, but it may be overkill for his needs, altho probably would fit fine too
<adam12> I can never remember the dry-* DSL
<Radar> pinksandles: good to cover all bases therre.
<pinksandles> i'm not trying to cover anything. i'm bluntly honest.. i like virtus, long before this convo started. but does he need it? no.
<nymous> my current goal is to make a dsl for rapid building of collector agents
<Radar> pinksandles: "But may be overkill" "altho probably would fit" == positive / negative sides at the same time.
<Radar> Which side of this particular fence are you on, pinksandles?
<nymous> this is the whole code i have in it and it works
<Radar> I'm on the side that you should at least evaluate code that others have written and see if it is fit-for-purpose.
<pinksandles> Radar: that just means, it would work for his needs but he wouldn't need most of it. kind of like, you could host a blog with rails, but you only need nginx + public/ folder.
<nymous> with all background job like timestamping events, calculating rates etc
<Radar> pinksandles: I used to host a blog with Rails. It handled 14req/s. I learned that particular lesson when Hacker News + Reddit tried to hit the blog at the same time.
<Radar> pinksandles: Now the blog handles _at least_ 600req/s
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<pinksandles> @Radar i suggest you read the backlog, you appear absence of tons of context.
<pinksandles> i don't care about discussing the merits of Rails. it's an example. it can host a blog, but so can less (eg static files + web server)
<Radar> pinksandles: been there, done that.
<Radar> I was trying to make a suggestion that perhaps dry-types could work better here.
<nymous> i'm actually thinking of having a blog on crystal lol
<pinksandles> so virtus can solve his problem, but so can his own solution, and so could the other gists i've posted. so far you haven't contributed anything but "lol congrats u recreated virtus"
<pinksandles> i suggested virtus
<pinksandles> it was my first suggestion
<pinksandles> go "been there, done that" some more
<Radar> 3 hours ago. You think that I am going to read that far back?
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<pinksandles> oh sorry. that excuses everything ....
<Radar> C'mon man. Drop the attitude.
<Radar> I was trying to make a suggestion, is all.
<nymous> btw guys, can you suggest me a lib or something for thread pool executor with timeout?
<Radar> nymous: I am banned from doing that apparently .
<pinksandles> sure, but i just thought "congrats you reinvented dry-*" was a bit rude to start with
<Radar> pinksandles: fair point.
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<Radar> nymous: concurrent-ruby has a thing called ThreadPoolExecutor: http://www.rubydoc.info/github/ruby-concurrency/concurrent-ruby/Concurrent/ThreadPoolExecutor
<nymous> most problems i have with multithreading for now is how to end a thread which exceeds timeout
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<nymous> Radar: i've seen it before, still doesn't reply to my question for having a timeout
<nymous> for example, i'm running 4 threads, one can accidentally stuck
<nymous> can i just kill it after timeout without complex thread in a thread in a thread approach?
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<Radar> wait_for_termination sounds like something you might want?
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<nymous> yeah, reading about it too
<nymous> well, i'll give it a try then
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<nymous> as for using dry-types instead of implementing my own. i've done with using complex libraries just because we have them long time ago during Perl times, when using a library function made my scripts run 10x slower than a quick reimplementation of exactly one function. Ruby isn't the fastest thing I've ever used
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<pinksandles> Radar: apologies. too tired.
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<Radar> pinksandles: np mate
<Radar> nymous: true that ;)
<Radar> I like Ruby for its syntax not its speed.
<nymous> yeah, syntax, semantics
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<nymous> but speed is kind of meh
<nymous> perl still performs a lot faster
<havenwood> nymous: depends what you're doing
<Radar> $!:*&^ <- masked swear or perl program?
<havenwood> Radar: both
<Radar> havenwood: ding ding we have a winner
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<nymous> well, writing things - ruby is a winner, but running - perl
<nymous> i did simple filter scripts, which gets a giant json blob and converts it into something else
<nymous> by giant i mean 15gb or more
<nymous> ruby takes ages to parse and output
<Radar> oh yeah totally
<Radar> I think if you did JSON.parse() you'd probably run out of memory.
<nymous> but writing it is way simpler
<nymous> i'm not that stupid, Radar
<Radar> nymous: some are ;)
<nymous> it was a line by line parser
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<Radar> "Why is my code slow? I am just trying to read this XML file into memory" "How big is the XML file?" "<multiple hundreds of MB>" "Welp"
<havenwood> nymous: Crystal pull approach is quite fast and uses very little mem.
<nymous> so now, it was a streaming output, kind of ok, it did the job, but slooow
<Radar> Just saw that https://github.com/dgraham/json-stream is a thing. Neat.
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<nymous> i personally looking forward for crystal, but never tried it for a real thing yet
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<havenwood> nymous: TruffleRuby is very promising looking for the future.
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<nymous> i personally would like to have something that can compile into binary with flexibility of ruby
<nymous> real binary, not a vm running a bytecode
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<nymous> thanks for your help folks, i have to go off to bed, almost 5 am here haha
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<nymous> bye
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<pinksandles> Radar: so does the Ruby benchmark: https://github.com/kostya/benchmarks/blob/master/json/test.rb but it performs pretty well.
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<thnee> how is it possible for bundler to install files as root, when I ran it as my normal user??
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<dminuoso> thnee: Perhaps sudo had your password cached, and bundler invoked something that tried to ask for sudo and was happy? Im not sure whether that's possible, but it's a hypothesis.
<dminuoso> Or even worse you may use sudo without password.
<dminuoso> or you ran bundler as root and your assumption about "always having been a normal user" is wrong
<dminuoso> Or radiation caused the wrong bit to flip, and you will spend the rest of your days chasing a rabbit that does not exist.
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<dminuoso> Or you are suffering from a mental disorder that impacts your ability to either see or remember.
<dminuoso> Since we need to test the hypothesis, I propose we disect your brain to rule out the last one.
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<pinksandles> @thnee don't know, bundle install --path=.vendored might help.
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<thnee> The case I am talking about is the absolute default: add a Gemfile with one gem, and run 'bundle install' as my normal user.
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<thnee> So bundler calls sudo behind the scenes?
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<dminuoso> thnee: One thing Im wondering, are you sure you are a normal user?
<elomatreb> bundler re-uses already installed gems if possible, maybe you installed those as root some other time?
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<dminuoso> thnee: But yes, there are cases when bundler uses sudo.
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<thnee> dminuoso: yes I am normal user, only some cases? like what?
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<thnee> elomatreb: this was a fresh installation
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<dminuoso> thnee: It would do so if it was trying to install into a directory not accessible for your current user.
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<thnee> dminuoso: geez that is not a feature
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<thnee> but thanks for informing me
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<sentor> hi
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<dminuoso> thnee: well it would ask for your password of course.
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<sentor> i have problems to parse a valid csv file with line breaks (quoted by quote_char) using ruby csv module ...
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<dminuoso> sentor: Can you a) reduce the problem to a single line CSV and share that + the code?
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<sentor> dminuoso: https://paste.debian.net/982529/ is an example csv file
<sentor> as code i try different methods e.g. CSV.table..., CSV.foreach... but without success ...
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<dminuoso> sentor: Please show us the code you have tried.
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<sentor> dminuoso: something like this https://paste.debian.net/982531/
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<sentor> in a begin rescue block with exeption: Unclosed quoted field on line 31.
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<thnee> dminuoso: I use passworless sudo. But how would you use bundler to avoid this behavior? So that it installs in a folder, like pythons virtualenv?
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<elomatreb> You probably either want --path, or configure your gem to always do user-install (e.g. in a .gemrc somewhere)
<dminuoso> sentor: LGTM.
<dminuoso> Well. Not good, but it works.
<sentor> dminuoso: have you tried it?
<dminuoso> sentor: Yes.
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<thnee> elomatreb: thanks, but how unfortunate that gem doesnt look for .gemrc in the current folder..
<elomatreb> bundler remembers when you use --path, if you need it to be project-specific
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<sentor> dminuoso: but i got the Unclosed quoted field on line 31 ... why ?
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<thnee> elomatreb: ah ok, thank you!
<dminuoso> sentor: Please reproduce with exactly what you have given me.
<dminuoso> And tell me your Ruby version.
<dminuoso> As long as I cant reproduce it, it didn't happen.
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<sentor> i took exactly the code and take the file ... my ruby version is 2.3.0
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<sentor> i got this error https://paste.debian.net/982538
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<dminuoso> sentor: that code will not run.
<dminuoso> file is undefined, CSV is not available
<dminuoso> My point is, I want to try out exactly what you have.
<sentor> dminuoso: mm ...
<dminuoso> sentor: also did you copy + paste from your own paste.debian.net into a file?
<sentor> https://paste.debian.net/982542 this should run ... substitute the file location ...
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<dminuoso> sentor: works for me. did you also copy from the paste into a file? (want to rule out that there was no encoding conversion happening anywhere)
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<sentor> dminuoso: not now ... moment plz
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<sentor> same problem ... whats your ruby version ?
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<dminuoso> sentor: 2.4.1
<dminuoso> sentor: Try upgrading to 2.3.4 at least
<thnee> elomatreb: looks like --path=.bundle seems to be a standard? based on /.bundle/ being in gihubs standard gitignore for ruby projects
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<elomatreb> .bundle is where bundler stores "project"-specific configs, e.g. so that it remembers that you used --path
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<elomatreb> I haven't used it much, but I think "vendor" used to be a common choice for this pattern
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<thnee> elomatreb: oh ok. used to be? is there a new standard instead of bundler?
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<elomatreb> No, bundler itself is a relatively recent thing, today the usual setup is to have all gems in a shared directory in your $HOME, with user permissions
<elomatreb> I think "vendor" was used before bundler came along to unify dependencies in a project
<sentor> dminuoso: try newer version ... thx for helping ...
<elomatreb> But I haven't been doing Ruby for that long, I wouldn't really know
<thnee> elomatreb: a shared directory in home sounds good for dev (just like virtualennwrapper) but not so good for production deploys
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<elomatreb> Bundler generates a .lock file that specifies the exact versions to solve that
<dminuoso> thnee: docker?
<dminuoso> Why differentiate between dev and production in the first place. Treating things differently is why things tend to blow up in one environment but not in another..
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<thnee> dminuoso: why design code that only works in why environment? portability is a good thing in the real world
<dminuoso> thnee: Because the world is too heterenenous for that to be realistic.
<dminuoso> thnee: Look at gnu autotools and see what happens.
<dminuoso> They tried to achieve true portability.
<elomatreb> Thus we close the circle to just edit files on the life server
<elomatreb> *live
<thnee> elomatreb: thanks for the help, I think I will go with project_folder/.gems/
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<dminuoso> thnee: bundler is the wrong abstraction for portability because it addresses a different problem.
<elomatreb> Remember to .gitignore it and .bundle, the lockfile is enough to recreate the exact gem environment
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<thnee> elomatreb: sure
<thnee> but erm.. how to activate this folder so its on the path?
<dminuoso> Or rather version pinning itself solves portability the same way: by allowing anything but an exact replica :p
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<elomatreb> Either just add it to the path, or I think you can tell bundler to generate binstubs in a more convenient directory, so you can execute bin/someexecutable
<elomatreb> (I assume you mean shell path, bundler/gem automatically manage the load path for you)
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<sentor> dminuoso: new version doesn't solve my csv problem ... keep on digging ...
<thnee> elomatreb: its not just abount knowing where the bin file is, the bin has to find the libs as well
<thnee> I was hoping to have a workflow like pythons virtualenv, but maybe this is not possible with ruby?
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<elomatreb> bundler/gem should take care of this, you can just require the gems
<dminuoso> thnee: docker.
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<thnee> elomatreb: sorry what do you mean? when installing with --path that path is not in PATH, so nothing that I installed is found
<dminuoso> sentor: whats your external encoding?
<dminuoso> sentor: you can find out by interrogating Encoding.default_external
<dminuoso> sentor: please be sure to do this from inside the same script, want to remove any possible influences on perhaps irb picking up a different locale for whatever reason
<elomatreb> Ah, so it is about executables. That's true, I think the best solution to this would be the mentioned binstubs, the libs these bins then require will be automatically managed by bundler. (https://bundler.io/bundle_binstubs.html)
<sentor> dminuoso: puts Encoding.default_external => UTF-8
<sentor> same script ...
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<elomatreb> (I am not really familiar with Python and/or virtualenv, sorry if that's not what you meant)
<thnee> oh it looks like chruby is a popular thing for this
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<dminuoso> elomatreb: virtualenv is bundler basically
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<dminuoso> well its a bit more
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<sentor> dminuoso: got it ... read the wrong file ... ARGH ... time to go ... thx for patience
<dminuoso> sentor: :-)
<dminuoso> sentor: So you lied! :P
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<sentor> dminuoso: sry yes i did
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<dminuoso> sentor: Seeing as you are likely German, you owe me a beer.
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<sentor> with pleasure ... today http://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=Jena%20krautgasse#map=19/50.92923/11.58222 ?
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<iamyask> is there a better way of writing this?
<iamyask> `@alerts.present? == false || alert_params[:details].present? == flase`
<iamyask> `if @alerts.present? == false || alert_params[:details].present? == flase`
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<iamyask> ```
<iamyask> ```
<iamyask> end
<iamyask> ....
<iamyask> if @alerts.present? == false || alert_params[:details].present? == flase
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<havenwood> iamyask: if @alerts.blank? || alert_params[:details].blank?
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<iamyask> Thanks! :D
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<havenwood> iamyask: You're welcome! Please gist more than three lines in the future.
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<iamyask> I will. Thanks
<grr12314> is there a nice way to get all of stdin at once? instead of line by line
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<grr12314> i've seen `dd` usid in golfs but it seems ugly and hacky
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<Petruchio> Hi. I'm a bit behind on recent developments... is there a built-in way to get all your named parameters as a hash?
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<havenwood> Petruchio: Say a bit more about what you mean? Method params?
<elomatreb> Sounds like you want **args
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<Petruchio> Yes, method parameters. That is, if my method's named parameters are foo: and bar:, I'd like to get { foo: whatever, bar: whatever} within the method without building that hash myself.
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<Mon_Ouie> Why not make your method parameters a single hash in the first place, if you're going to construct a hash with them anyway?
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<elomatreb> Petruchio: **args will do what you want
<Petruchio> I could, but I like the validation. I'd like to raise an error if certain parameters aren't there, and I use default values for others.
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<elomatreb> There are mandatory keyword arguments now, just don't put a value after the colon
<matthewd> No, there is not a way to do that -- just as there's no way to get all the arguments as an array
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<Petruchio> elomatreb: Yes, I'm using them that way. It's very nice. I didn't want to give that up by using **args.
<elomatreb> Oh, now I get it. Sorry, nevermind then
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<Petruchio> matthewd: Not the answer I was hoping for, but it's good to have an answer. Thanks.
<matthewd> You could get the validation, though not the default values, by calling a second method ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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<ducklobster> what is the difference between OpenSSL::Digest and Digest?
<ducklobster> and I guess, which should I use?
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<ducklobster> (just for MD5)
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<matthewd> ducklobster: Leaving aside the fact that you shouldn't be using md5 for anything these days, I'd go with Digest unless you hit something specific you need OpenSSL for
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<ducklobster> matthewd: gotcha, thanks! just using md5 for a content hash (checksum-like)
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<matthewd> Still a bad idea
<ducklobster> whys that?
<matthewd> CRC32 is faster if you need a basic checksum
<matthewd> Some security certifications require MD5 support to be disabled/removed entirely
<dminuoso> Just use SHA2.
<ducklobster> ah interesting, I wasn't aware of that
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<ducklobster> their signature involves using Content-MD5
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<dminuoso> ducklobster: The problem is that all checksum have no preimage resistance whatsoever to the point that its trivial, and they usually have poor entropy.
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<dminuoso> ducklobster: Or for raw checksuming when malicious modification is not a concern fletcher-32 is always a great option
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<dminuoso> (It kind of depends on whether you have the freedom to spend CPU cycles. If so, go SHA2 all the way)
<matthewd> FIPS compliance is the thing that requires MD5 to be gone
<ducklobster> thanks for the info guys, i will check out fletchers and keep the compliance stuff in mind for md5 and such!
<matthewd> But yeah, if you're talking to a 3rd party that *requires* MD5, then that's a different story
<dminuoso> matthewd: So a system that talks to AmazonS3 cannot be FIPS compliant?
<dminuoso> (-:
<ducklobster> i know nothing about FIPS compliance, but i'm guessing it only looks at the system itself, not 3rd party?
<ducklobster> dminuoso: my thought exactly :P
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<dminuoso> matthewd: I dont trust anything that comes from NIST ever since I learned the story behind P-256.
<matthewd> dminuoso: I guess? Or at least it'd have to manually reimplement MD5, because all the system APIs refuse to work, apparently
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<pinksandles> thnee: I told you the solution at the start of conversation, to avoid the possibility of sudo install into a local folder:`bundle install --path=.vendored`, it also makes 'nuking' your bundle easier.
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<cjohnson> I want to merge a hash with a variably sized hash, and I'm constructing that hash using reduce. Does anybody have a recommendation for a nicer way to write this? https://gist.github.com/chrisjohnson/d037dddf04034eb72eb15da0dc7a66e6
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<cjohnson> each_with_object and flip the params, got it
<cjohnson> thanks rubber duck
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<neekoso> One day I was told that you can have "true" threads in MRI
<neekoso> Am I missing something?
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<dminuoso> neekoso, you can.
<dminuoso> neekoso, you just need to understand the implications of the GVL.
<neekoso> How though? What about global interpreter lock?
<dminuoso> neekoso, *VM lock.
<dminuoso> neekoso, each syscall releases the VM lock.
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<neekoso> I didn't quite get the last one. You mean, each syscall?
<neekoso> every*
<dminuoso> neekoso, so when you do any I/O, you have to ask the kernel to do it for you.
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<dminuoso> neekoso, and when that is blocking, it means you have to "wait" (means your thread sleeps) for the result. during that waiting, the GVL is released.
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<neekoso> Yeah, I get the basics of it
<dminuoso> So while one thread is waiting for I/O (or any other syscall), another can do ruby stuff
<neekoso> As I know, syscalls aren't only about IO
<neekoso> That's what confused me
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<dminuoso> neekoso, you absolutely get concurrency in either case though.
<dminuoso> just parallelism is limited to special cases
<aduabu> Just want to thank havenwood for the other day. Appreciated
<dminuoso> neekoso, jruby however has full threading support by the way
<neekoso> dminuoso: Yea, and rubinius as well, iirc
<havenwood> aduabu: You're welcome!
<neekoso> dminuoso: But the thing is, I was told that MRI can run ruby stuff on multiple cores
<neekoso> I googled it and haven't found any proof
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<chrisseaton> neekoso: it can run parts of C extensions on multiple cores if they ask for it
<havenwood> neekoso: Ruby can indeed run stuff on multiple cores. You can prove by doing. ;-)
<havenwood> neekoso: C-extensions or IO, etc.
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<neekoso> I'll dig more, thanks dminuoso, havenwood, chrisseaton!
<havenwood> neekoso: Here's a multi-part article that's a good read: https://www.jstorimer.com/blogs/workingwithcode/8085491-nobody-understands-the-gil
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<havenwood> neekoso: Or, for fun, releasing the GVL manually: https://gist.github.com/tenderlove/5733632
<havenwood> (A hack.)
<neekoso> Sounds like pretty unsafe hack
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<havenwood> neekoso: indeed, more of a joke than a suggestion
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<eam> the obvious and easy way to run ruby on multiple cores is with multiple instances of rvm
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<eam> aka, fork
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<neekoso> havenwood: I just wonder how can this work. Are there some forks or pthread_create in the source code that allows disabling the GIL
<dminuoso> chrisseaton, which one highlighted you? rubinius?
<dminuoso> neekoso, by the way it's called GVL these days. :)
<havenwood> neekoso: GIL (interpreter) versus GVL (VM)
<neekoso> Oh, got the difference, thanks
<chrisseaton> dminuoso: yeah rubinius, always looking out for VM talk
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<dminuoso> neekoso, you cant disable the GVL. You can explicitly release it, but you should probably get a throrough understandings of the inner workings before you do that.
<dminuoso> neekoso, the GVL does not protect against harmless race conditions, but against situations that downright crash ruby.
<eam> ruby -e'puts File.read("/proc/cpuinfo").scan(/^processor/sm).length.times {fork{loop{}}}' # ruby running on all cores, all the time
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<havenwood> I'm really curious about AutoFibers and how that turns out.
<chrisseaton> dminuoso: I think the GVL also enforces sequential consistency, because all memory writes are committed before the GVL is yielded
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<dminuoso> chrisseaton, I'm not seeing anything that looks like a memory barrier. It would have to be an intrinsic or inline assembly.
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<chrisseaton> The GVL is a mutex isn't it? And any user-space mutex implementation involves a barrier I believe.
<chrisseaton> And I guess a kernel-space mutex must be a barrier on a deschedule... not sure
<dminuoso> chrisseaton, I suppose a mutex without a memory barrier would be silly
<dminuoso> chrisseaton, just played the scenario in my head, you could not reason about code if it didn't, you are right.
<dminuoso> chrisseaton, also by definition there is no kernel-space mutex.
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<eam> dminuoso: why do you say there is no kernel-space mutex by definition?
<dminuoso> eam, let me refine. Are we considering spinlocks to be mutexes?
<dminuoso> eam, I had this discussion with multiple kernel developers that all shared the notion, that a mutex is a userspace construct because it sleeps (i.e. yield) to block.
<dminuoso> but Im no expert on the subject
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<eam> I think the defining notion of a mutex is that it provides mutual exclusion. The mechanism by which it does so isn't particularly important. But WRT "user-space mutex" I think that's a reference to futex(2) -- go back about a decade and all pthread mutexes were handled by the kernel
<eam> futex pushes much of that into user space, using CMPXCHG
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<dminuoso> eam, ah I see the distinction you are making.
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<eam> so we can have spinlocks in userspace without involving the kernel to schedule and wake threads, for example
<eam> without syscalls entirely, if desired
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<eam> ah yeah, futex(2) added in 2003
<dminuoso> eam, ah okay. The discussions we had was rather about the mechanism (so we needed some way of differentiating between a spinlock and something that yields)
<eam> aha
<dminuoso> And the latter one would be useless in the kernel
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<eam> I don't really understand that either
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<dminuoso> eam, well let's consider a semaphore for instance. semaphore.wait() would commonly try to decrement the semaphore, or put sleep the thread until the semaphore is released.
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<dminuoso> but when you are inside the kernel, the concept of sleep() has no meaning
<eam> it doesn't?
<dminuoso> eam, how can a kernel sleep? who would wake it up?
<eam> another kernel thread, yeah?
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* neekoso wakes up the sleepy kernel
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<eam> dminuoso: there are sleeping and scheduling related functions in linux
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<dminuoso> eam, okay so we are strictly talking about non-interrupt cases right?
<eam> kernel space in general, sure. rules are different depending on context
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<dminuoso> eam, okay I should really look deeper into Linux.
<eam> you've got a bazillion kernel threads running at any given time, right? Like, take a peek at `ps` and see everything with a ppid=2
<eam> most of those are sleeping at any given point in time
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<eam> on a given system here I have 402 :)
<eam> many of 'em are per-cpu worker threads, which are indicated by the [foo/##] of which cpu they're running on
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<eam> so like: $ > sudo head -1 /proc/16/stack
<eam> [<ffffffff810dfbd5>] cpu_stopper_thread+0x125/0x1b0
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<eam> that's the current state of one of the stopper kernel threads on my system
<eam> lots of fun stuff to look at in that file
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<blindMoe> I want to use PaperTrail to do some auditing / versioning on some models that are all being changed by a single endpoint call. I want to be able to link the different model's versions together so that I can undo the changes all at once. Is there a preferred method of doing that using paper trail?
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<blindMoe> so basically if user A hits endpoint which causes 6 models to be updated, I would like to be able to undo all 6 model changes easily if user A clicks 'Undo'
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