00:34 <abliss> anyone know the trick to rekeying apps in vagrant-spk? I replaced the id in the capnp but I keep getting " SPK PGP signature signed incorrect text." with the old id still popping up.

00:49 <abliss> nevermind, figured it out

01:13 <ill_logic> Is there a project that successfully got postgres working? I see some chatter about it in a mailing list.

01:13 <ill_logic> In the* mailing list. Years ago though.

01:22 <ill_logic> I just searched a bunch of source links. There doesn't seem to be anything. This should be an interesting challenge.

01:33 <ill_logic> Running postgres non-daemon as a different user does not appear to be trivial.

02:49 <ill_logic> I'll see if I can do this without psql in the first place.

03:01 <ill_logic> Oh, heh. OSM's data files are usually distributed as protobuf. Coming full circle.

03:02 <ill_logic> (This is me trying to get an OpenStreetMap tile server to run on Sandstorm).

03:24 <dckc> ill_logic, map tile server... cool!

03:27 <ill_logic> Yeah. I have a basic thing working without Sandstorm. In Sandstormifying it I realized I need to handle psql and apache still.

03:28 <ill_logic> However I'm realizing I could probably swap sqlite in. And I may even have an alternative to apache.

03:30 <ill_logic> I was worried that it would run too slowly on sandstorm. However tiles can be pre-rendered. And generally they're cached once viewed.

05:12 <ocdtrekkie> isd: I know a lot of Sandstorm src files are supposed to be self-documenting, but I would argue anything in the source files count as code comments, not docs.

05:12 <ocdtrekkie> Any time someone has to look there to learn how to package an app, it means docs have failed, IMHO.

05:13 <ocdtrekkie> I mean, not to criticize, but as someone who has eaten, slept, and breathed Sandstorm for five years, when I looked at your hello-oauth, I had questions like... what is this random string and how do I find out what one I should use? https://github.com/zenhack/hello-sandstorm-oauth/blob/master/powerbox-request.capnp#L1

05:14 <isd> ocdtrekkie: the capnp files really are specifications. But that's kinda my point -- we should be generating reference docs for the ones that are relevant, ideally.

05:15 <ocdtrekkie> To remove the oauthScopes for an unauthenticated request, what do I delete? Do I leave the comma after the canonical URL? Do I just get rid of what's in the brackets?

05:15 <isd> (To answer that particular question, though I appreciate the broader point: run `capnp id` and it will generate one for you. It identifies the schema).

05:16 <ocdtrekkie> I mean, I kinda get it, in some ways... and I know I'm not much of a software developer, but like, if as someone who reads every dang comment, list mail, and commit, cannot answer those questions quickly, I am guessing newcomers are going to have a bad time.

05:16 <isd> I mean, at a certain point I think app developers are going to have to learn to understand capnp schema to write apps that use the platform's apis.

05:17 <isd> I think part of the lack of community knowledge is just that few people have poked at those apis.

05:17 <isd> like, mos people didn't realize the functionality that demo uses even existed

05:17 <isd> *most

05:17 <ocdtrekkie> Probably, but if so, we should probably nudge people to the right capnp resources too.

05:17 <ocdtrekkie> In fairness, the functionality exists but nothing in the app market used it, AFAIK.

05:18 <isd> Yeah, some links in relevant places to the capnp docs should be a thing.

05:19 <isd> I should add some comments to the example that anticipate some of those questions.

05:23 <isd> (fwiw, the pkgdef has a similar random string at the top...)

05:25 <isd> I should write a capnp doc generator so we can post stuff on the website.

05:26 <ocdtrekkie> I am not saying this is an omission in your example, by any means, just saying like... there's definitely more we can do documentation-wise yet.

05:27 <ocdtrekkie> One thing I am hopeful of if we get more app development moving, is for the occasional random person's blog post tutorial. Because while sometimes outside the exact format that looks right in docs, such tutorials can be super handy in piecing it together. Also kinda like example apps. :)

05:37 <isd> Yeah.

05:37 <isd> Opened an issue related to descriptors: https://github.com/capnproto/capnproto/issues/926

05:37 <isd> Super annoying that the id has to be a hex string right now.

15:32 <ill_logic> I suppose I could try to just follow that Postgres person from the mailing list. Others could find the example useful if I'm indeed the first. And we could hone it down to one best practice over time.

15:38 <ill_logic> I'm just worried I'd get something wrong. Like they were talking about needing to bind stats to localhost for autovacuum? Who knows what else could secretly go wrong.