00:57 <abliss> I'd love to understand better the challenges standing between us and (a) federation of sandstorm instances with capability-passing (persistent caps?) and (b) grains being able to host public ActivityPub or similar apis

00:58 <abliss> Maybe that could be a topic on the next Office Hour? Ian Denhardt will you be joining the call sunday 2pm?

01:00 <isd> I plan to. I'll set an alarm this time :/

01:05 <abliss> Ian Denhardt: btw have you encountered any problems with (a) modern distro + (b) modern nodejs + (c) sandstorm build? i'm trying to compile from source and currently capnp is failing on "include <node.h>"

01:05 <isd> Sandstorm expects nodejs 10.x

01:06 <abliss> i already downgraded from node10 to node8 so that i could install libnode-dev on ubuntu 18.04 so that i could install nodejs-dev

01:06 <abliss> s/libnode-dev/nodejs

01:06 <isd> I'm not 100% sure the system node matters though; I think it might just pull it from the meteor bundle?

01:06 <isd> I feel like I hit the node.h issue once, trying to remember what the problem was.

01:06 <abliss> is it just impossible to do it with apt and i should try nvm or something?

01:07 <isd> I'm on Arch.

01:08 <isd> the system node is 13.6.0, so I'm pretty sure it is in fact pulling node 10 from somewhere else.

01:08 <isd> I think that's the meteor bundle. I don't think it will use the system node.

01:10 <abliss> sigh, trying to understand how the ekam build works and what is making it not find node.h feels like one too many layers of yak-hair right no

01:10 <abliss> w

01:10 <isd> Yeah, I wish the build system were simpler.

01:11 <isd> It's kindof a horror story compared to what I'm used to. Much of that is just C++ pre-dating what I consider table-stakes for a reasonable build system by a few decades.

01:11 <isd> Meteor also introduces a bunch of magic that I don't fully understand, and that makes things harder.

01:12 <abliss> guess i'll try following the advice of the install.md and do the build under vagrant.... then i'll have to debug whatever crazy problem makes vagrant fail

01:12 <isd> sigh

01:12 <isd> Yeah, worth a shot

01:13 <isd> I'd like to get a setup going that's reliable, maybe based on nix, so folks don't have to fight with this so much.

01:13 <isd> I'm sure it's driven off contributors in the past.

01:22 <isd> I futzed around with trying to package ekam with nix, but got stuck; it dies right after "learning" the intercept rule. Maybe nix is doing some sandboxing that messes with the LD_PRELUDE nonsense that ekam is doing?

01:27 <isd> Unfortunately ekam barfs when reporting the error, so I get an error about not being able to report errors...

01:30 <dckc> yay nix

02:29 <CcxWrk> Not being able to make sane from-source build of Meteor is pretty much the reason I never bothered installing Sandstorm.

02:30 <CcxWrk> (Also that's one huge packageset to pull into TCB. Good luck auditing that.)

02:31 <isd> I'll admit, I'm not in love with our tech stack.

02:33 <abliss> to be fair, though, have you ever been in love with a tech stack?

02:34 <isd> Perhaps when I was younger :P

02:45 <isd> Unfortunately I don't know how to fix some of these things short of a full rewrite, which is not reasonable.

02:46 <isd> O.O we have approximately 700 transitive npm dependencies.

02:50 <isd> How much of this is just crap for transpiling modern javascript into old javascript? 91 of those packages have 'babel' in the name, and probably some of the others are dependencies of babel

15:12 <abliss> (so far, i am quite pleasantly surprised at the quality of the matrix.org server, the riot.im android app, and the bridging to both irc and slack. Now i'm eager to try standing up my own matrix server and adding more exotic bridges. Would love to be able to uninstall a dozen chat apps and let one rule them all, like the good old days when pidgin could be a client for AIM/ICQ/etc)

16:49 <ocdtrekkie> abliss: So you have the key now, I presume, but dwrensha's repo is remaining the canonical source location?

17:07 <isd> Sadly the F-droid version of the app doesn't do push notifications. And the desktop version is... Well, it's an electron app. But yeah, I'm otherwise pretty happy.

19:33 <ocdtrekkie> Tested and merged vagrant-spk's open PRs! Now 40% through my vagrant-spk 1.0 milestone. https://github.com/sandstorm-io/vagrant-spk/milestone/3

19:35 <ocdtrekkie> Most interested in feedback on changing vagrant-spk's port. As it does involve a bunch of docs changes and the like, but I think in a simplifying manner.

19:36 <ocdtrekkie> But I think all of the issues left here are pretty trivial for me to tackle, time permitting.

21:52 <isd> ocdtrekkie: +1 for changing the port.

23:16 <abliss> ocdtrekkie: yep, dwrensha is keeping the repo for now. and +1 on changing the port.