kentonv changed the topic of #sandstorm to: Welcome to #sandstorm: home of all things sandstorm.io. Say hi! | Have a question but no one is here? Try asking in the discussion group: https://groups.google.com/group/sandstorm-dev
<CaptainCalliope>
ocdtrekkie: Where would you be trekking from?
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<ocdtrekkie>
Chicago area
<ill_logic>
Huh. ocdtrekkie were you ever at the Chicago LUG?
<ill_logic>
I used to live there.
<ill_logic>
<isd "Btw, I know some of you are in t"> I'm in New Hampshire, about an hour north.
<CaptainCalliope>
My parents live in Nashua so I spend a lot of time there.
<isd>
browser tab
<isd>
Bleh, that was supposed to be a search
<isd>
abliss: I think you asked earlier about how to keep a grain active even when a user isn't viewing it?
<isd>
There's a stayAwake() method on SandstormApi described in grain.capnp
<CaptainCalliope>
"GitHub has launched a beta program enabling funding projects (not just individual maintainers as their previously released Sponsors program was focused on). To participate, they require projects to have a corporate bank account to receive funds. If they don’t, they are directed to information about Open Collective (and other foundations) to find a fiscal sponsor. This represents a huge opportunity for Open Source
<CaptainCalliope>
Collective, and we are working closely with Github on it because together we can provide critical solutions that benefit projects, Github, and OSC alike. The next steps will deepen this integration, enabling new groups to create a Collective through GitHub with a seamless onboarding flow." - from https://blog.opencollective.com/2019-in-review-2020-update/#the-open-source-community-
<CaptainCalliope>
The ceo of opencollective is in belgium for conferences this week, so I'm reaching out on monday to schedule a chat.
<ocdtrekkie>
ill_logic: I gave the Sandstorm talk at the Chicago LUG.
<ocdtrekkie>
Was the only time I attended though, I try not to go into the city.
<ill_logic>
Hah, okay. That must have been after my time. I don't think I heard of Sandstorm until after I moved away.
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<abliss>
so i realized the simpler way to get HTTPS is to switch from `vagrant-spk` dev to `spk dev`, but now i'm finding that all the hardcoded `/opt/app` in my repo don't work anymore. is `/opt/app` a vagrant-specific thing? what's the Right Way for scripts to work? assume the contents of my repo are all mounted at / ?
<ill_logic>
I think that's what I did when I switched from vagrant to spk for Kiwx
<ill_logic>
Kiwix*
<ill_logic>
For some reason everything was mounted at /. So I guess beware of name collisions with the usual Posix stuff
<abliss>
ughhh i hate virtualenv's non-relocatable everything
<abliss>
i also hate how it just segfaulted python
<abliss>
auuugghhh what a fetid mess the entire python ecosystem is
<abliss>
sigh... finally got past the ssl hurdle, only to discover that none of the matrix clients support HTTP Basic Auth.
<abliss>
does anyone understand why Basic Auth is necessary for apis? why can't the entire token live inside the secret subdomain?
<isd>
You mean sandstorm basic auth?
<isd>
putting in the subdomain is insufficient, because that's likely to get leaked via DNS. It's sortof a defense-in-depth thing, but it's not sufficient for auth itself.
<isd>
How does auth normally work with matrix?
<isd>
I think it's possible to put it in the path (/.sandstorm-token/<token>/<path> will auth and redirect to <path> IIRC), but not sure that helps you for matrix.
<isd>
Nix is really useful for grabbing older versions of packages. Most distros make getting any of the N upstream-supported versions of software way harder than it should be.
<isd>
And you can even do it in a local subshell, without affecting the global config. I've been throwing together ad-hoc dev enviornments with nix-shell -p a lot lately.
<ill_logic>
Do you run NixOS?
<isd>
No, I've got Arch on my laptop. I've been thinking of giving NixOS a go again, but for now I'm just using nix/nixpkgs on top of Arch.
<isd>
thelibrary.sandcats.io is running NixOS though.
<isd>
Though the nix machinery isn't managing sandstorm, except for the systemd unit.
<isd>
Also, ug, do I really have to build mongo from source to update meteor-spk? I'd really like to un-bundle a lot of our dependencies.
<isd>
The awful irony here is that the only reason I'm even looking at updating meteor-spk is for the test app, which doesn't actually use mongo, though it is meteor.
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<ocdtrekkie>
Before I had a good environment for running vagrant-spk, I remained regularly irritated there wasn't a good way to spk dev apps built for vagrant-spk. A lot of different opinions were put into place.
<ocdtrekkie>
Even things like using different filenames for the keyring in the host machine, using the .sandstorm folder, etc. Just added a lot of weird frustrations.
<ocdtrekkie>
Though I do like the changes vagrant-spk made, as a general concept.
<ocdtrekkie>
isd: FWIW, it'll be nice having an updated meteor-spk. :)
<abliss>
yeah, moving back and forth is a pain when virtualenv hardcodes all its absolute paths in its files (wtf)
<abliss>
i do love the reproducibility of v-s, and the ability to apt-get install things without root. maybe i should go back to trying to get self-signed SSL to work
<abliss>
(also every v-s command seems to take an extra second or two to run, which is a bit of a bummer. not sure what's up with that)
<ocdtrekkie>
I think for a bunch of reasons, it makes sense for Sandstorm to prefer development with tools that keep the environment isolated.
<ocdtrekkie>
spk's "grab what it feels like" design is neat, but the best way to manage it is to ensure it's running in a carefully-curated environment, like a VM.
<abliss>
i agree. i wonder if it's possible to preserve the current path, instead of remounting it at /opt/app.
<ill_logic>
virtualenv used to be a 3rd party hack library until it was finally mainlined. it wouldn't surprise me if it was a weird mess back then. that it still is a mess is somewhat surprising
<ill_logic>
ocdtrekkie: The main reason I went from vagrant-spk to spk is that I'm on QubesOS.
<ill_logic>
Though now I love it tbh. Feels a lot more freeing.
<ill_logic>
It would be nice if the builds could work on either.
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<isd>
abliss: if those are your selling points, look at nix.
<isd>
I wonder if we can solve this issue through better use of the package manifest's sourceMap field.
<isd>
Like, you could maybe not search /, but search /nix/store...?
<isd>
But yeah, it's a lot nicer to not have the VM in the way, just from an ergonomics perspective.
<isd>
Fleshing out a nix workflow would be useful.
<isd>
...I think a nix-spk that didn't put / in searchPath would be a good option.
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<ocdtr_web>
abliss: I love Tiny Tiny RSS. That being said: The developer is an absolute ***hole.
<abliss>
agreed on both counts.
<ocdtr_web>
And yes, I logged into webchat just to express that opinion. Gotta run.
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<abliss>
fox is so unpleasant that it makes me want to not use TTrss, and I usually have a very high tolerance for such antics.
<abliss>
i'm kinda hoping that Matrix will turn out to be my savior, with its own RSS-reader plugin
<isd>
You could write a sandstorm-first feed reader :P
<abliss>
first we bring the world's apps to Sandstorm, then sandstorm takes over the world, and *then* the world's best apps will be sandstorm-first
<ill_logic>
btw I don't suppose there's any hope torrents work out of the box on Sandstorm? I feel like with the big data my apps work with, it would be the considerate thing to do.
<ill_logic>
And probably the efficient thing.
<ill_logic>
I know there's also web torrent but I don't know if that still relies on a third party translating all the traffic.
<isd>
I would hazard a guess that webtorrent wouldn't work out of the box. I'm not deeply familiar with it, but it seems likely it would need some support from a signaling server, which sandstorm's filtering might mess with.
<isd>
webrtc in generall probably won't "just work" right now
<isd>
But it would be good to know the actual limitations; this is just conjecture.
<ill_logic>
Sure.
<ill_logic>
Worst case I may end up having to host some of the OSM data myself. Seems that's the policy of the phone applications anyway. Not to overload the mothership OSM servers.
<ill_logic>
Or hmm... IPFS. That would be interesting.
<isd>
exploring how various peer-to-peer things could work on sandstorm generally is a very open question
<isd>
I mean, you can always request raw network access and build support yourself, but it seems silly to need admin access just to fetch maps, so it's also good to be exploring the design space
<ill_logic>
hah. I think somebody already hosted a whole world map including rendered tiles on IPFS.
<isd>
It would be nice to be able to take advantage of that somehow.
<ill_logic>
At that point I have to reflect on what the point of Sandstorm is again. If IPFS gives you sufficient privacy, you could just use that without Sandstorm.
<ill_logic>
Maybe Sandstorm could cache desired tiles locally.
<ill_logic>
And of course the "favorites" you save for yourself would still need some self-hosted thing to be priate.
<ill_logic>
private*
<isd>
It might be interesting to explore packaging IPFS as a stand-alone app.
<isd>
You can't run code on IPFS. And in the general case privacy is definitely a concern
<isd>
and for me one of the big things is, self hosting a one-off app on a server is not a problem, but hosting a bunch of them is.
<isd>
Each one adds attack surface and maintenence burden