00:13 <isd> Definitely agre with DanC that we should have people other than kentonv and I who understand how sandstorm works

00:13 <isd> ocdtrekkie: definitely play with the demo I posted.

00:14 <isd> Thing is, I didn't get to understanding stuff by any magical means, just dug in and tried to use/hack on stuff.

00:14 <isd> Would like to improve docs and such, but ultimately we need other folks trying to do stuff.

00:15 <isd> Also +1 for wanting data export to be closer to the normal thing, and better export features.

00:16 <isd> I think 100% standard formats everywhere is probably not achievable since apps will sometimes need to store some things that are specific to their workings.

00:16 <isd> But ideally you'd at least have an easy way to export an apps data, and another app could maybe say "I understand that format over there, I can import it."

00:19 <ocdtrekkie> DanC: Blackrock is advertised better than it works though. Kenton talked about some issues with it in the shutdown announcement for Oasis.

00:19 <ocdtrekkie> And it's only been tested on/run on Google Cloud Engine.

00:20 <isd> ...and is highly specific thereto I believe, so can't actually run anywhere else.

00:20 <isd> I don't see discussion above re: blackrock, was that in the PM that was mentioned?

00:21 <ocdtrekkie> Having Sandstorm used by a large enough entity to justify a design like Blackrock would probably be a pretty big win in terms of having someone large who might sponsor development. But I can't imagine it being a "soon" thing.

00:21 <ocdtrekkie> isd: DanC mentionned wanting "Automatic Failover" and "Random hardware failures are invisible to your users", linking the Blackrock page.

00:21 <isd> Aha.

00:22 <ocdtrekkie> FWIW, Oasis' random hardware failures weren't that invisible to users. \o/

00:22 <isd> A lot of them weren't hardware failures; there was some v8 bug that was constantly dogging them

00:23 <ocdtrekkie> Although sometimes the reasons were extreme such as "Google's resources are literally completely full at the datacenter, apparently"

00:23 <isd> Which is finally fixed, though this was well after the company shut down and kenton hit the same bug working on stuff at cloudflare :P

00:24 <isd> IIRC the blog post also mentions that they never actually hit the scale where one beefy server running normal sandstorm wouldn't have done the job.

00:24 <isd> ...and probably would have saved some developer effort

00:24 <ocdtrekkie> As I said, if we ever actually needed to trudge out Blackrock, we probably wouldn't be worried about funding development efforts. :P

00:24 <isd> Re: redundancy/reliability stuff: I'd like to see us have a real backup story at least.

00:25 <ocdtrekkie> Yes please

00:26 <isd> Blackrock as such isn't super exciting to me. What would be more interesting to me would be e.g. if you could federate sandstorm boxes and have an arrangment with a freind where your machines use each other as a backup (probably encrypted).

00:52 <abliss> Yah, I'd love to see sandstorm running on a redundant array of inexpensive compute sticks :)

00:53 <abliss> i feel like unsophisticated people self-hosting on self-administered cheap hardware may be able to get one 9 of uptime each, but if they could easily and transparently federate, the second 9 may be doable without centralizing

00:57 <isd> RAICS? doesn't have the same ring to it

00:57 <isd> I guess you could pronounce it "rakes"

00:57 <isd> But still not as catchy

01:03 <isd> working on setting up github sponsors... I have to pick payment tiers... aaagghh decisions...

01:11 <ocdtrekkie> isd: I've checked your profile a couple times to see if it was available yet.

01:11 <ocdtrekkie> So good.

01:12 <ocdtrekkie> I would have like 10, 25, and 100 ones at least. And then a super cheap one if it'll let you.

01:17 <abliss> ocdtrekkie: looks like the ttrss on the market is so old it lacks the af|

01:17 <abliss> _readability plugin, which is one of the things i was hoping to try

01:18 <abliss> do you have something else set up to pull fulltext articles?

01:19 <ocdtrekkie> abliss: The client I use for TTRSS is linked as the Windows client in the app's Mobile App tab. I love the app, but if you don't use Windows 10 it is not going to help you. :/

01:45 <isd> ocdtrekkie: thanks for the input.

01:54 <abliss> ocdtrekkie: does the client transform link-only feeds into fulltext feeds? that's one big feature i'm looking for that theoldreader.com doesn't seem to offer

02:08 <ocdtrekkie> abliss: Nah, my client just shows whatever it's given.

02:08 <ocdtrekkie> Ideally if we get TTRSS updated, we can add the plugin you like, presumably.

02:08 <ocdtrekkie> Probably the one pain point of switching to the Powerbox though is we might have issues pulling images and stuff if they use CDN domains on their feeds.

02:28 <isd> So now I wait on them approving the actual profile I put together.

02:31 <isd> I put some larger tiers in there too, though I don't know that I really expect anyone will jump at those...

02:56 <isd> ocdtrekkie: did you try to pm me? I fat fingered on my phone and hit reject by accident...

04:57 <ocdtrekkie> isd: Tried to!

05:01 <isd> oops.

12:09 <crab> i wrote to david renshaw after the call, but he hasn't replied yet

12:19 <crab> the meeting time is past the middle of my sunday night, so i'll not often be able to attend

12:19 <crab> so i'm especially interested in following along with the meeting notes/minutes later

13:23 <ocdtrekkie> No worries, anything particularly noteworthy should make it to the dev list or GitHub. And if there's stuff you want discussed even on meetings you can't make it, just shoot a note out somewhere about it.

21:45 <Guest43589> Alright. Finally catching up on the last week of stuff. So much! :D

21:46 <Guest43589> I've started curating a Twitter list for active sandstorm community members. https://twitter.com/i/lists/1217195768957800450?s=20

21:46 <Guest43589> Let me know what y'alls twitter handles are if you want to be included, and let me know if you want to be taken off.

21:53 <xet7> Guest43589: add me @xet7

21:53 <Guest43589> <xet7 "Lyre Calliope: add me @xet7"> Done.

21:54 <xet7> I'm currently working on this https://github.com/sandstorm-io/sandstorm/pull/3175

22:10 <Guest43589> Regarding the blackrock conversation from yesterday, my understanding is that it's pretty much a dead end as a codebase. We should probably excise it from most of the documentation at some point as it's become a historical lesson more than anything else. Just curious, is there related code in the main codebase that can be factored out a well?

22:10 <Guest43589> From an indieweb perspective, a what Ian's been talking about re: federation excites me. When we're at a point where it makes sense to start exploring this for real I'd love to see more ideas for what this could look like. The level dependability for individuals and resiliency for the ecosystem this would enable can't be understated.

22:11 <xet7> Guest43589: Please remove @xet7 and add @WekanApp , because I use that more for Wekan related stuff

22:11 <xet7> @xet7 is more of personal stuff also related to other projects

22:13 <xet7> Well, my newest changes are to Sandstorm directly, not actually to Wekan, but anyway

22:14 <Guest43589> I really want to geek out about bigger picture and long-term vision stuff and I'm not sure what the appropriate context is for that here. lol

22:14 <Guest43589> It's sometimes easy to lose focus of near-term pragmatism when talking big, but at the same time it's the long-term potential of the platform that brought me here and that I'm most excited about.

22:15 <Guest43589> xet7: Gotcha.

22:22 <xet7> Guest43589: At https://wekan.github.io I have links to Wekan Roadmap, Meteor Roadmap and YouTube Meteor NYC Meetup 2020-01-07

22:23 <xet7> There should be Sandstorm Roadmap somewhere

22:23 <xet7> so I could link to it

22:39 <ocdtr_web> Guest43589: Blackrock lives in it's own repo. Some Blackrock code was actually moved from Blackrock into Sandstorm so that Sandstorm users can use it. (Such as payments.)

22:40 <ocdtr_web> Essentially Blackrock pulls in Sandstorm when building. But there shouldn't really be anything to pull out of Sandstorm itself.

22:40 <Guest43589> As far as I've been able to tell, the sandstorm's roadmap documentation is comprised of this documentation https://github.com/sandstorm-io/sandstorm/tree/master/roadmap and the github issues. I haven't been able to find anything like a timeline or a kanban board. And even if there was, we might as well start from near-scratch given the soft-reboot of activity we're in right now.

22:40 <Guest43589> Anyone know of roadmap documentatino I might have missed?

22:40 <Guest43589> Btw, product managery things like facilitating roadmapping maintaining roadmap documentation is one of the primary areas I'm hoping to work on here. Few things are as satisfying as a well defined milestones and a well maintained backlog. :D

22:40 <ocdtr_web> The biggest thing I'd like from federation isn't necessarily hosting my data on other people's Sandstorm servers. I just want to see grains shared with me on other people's servers from my server.

22:41 <ocdtr_web> So like, when you share Office Hours notes on your server, I want a link to it in my grain list on my server, ideally.

22:42 <ocdtr_web> The bounty board is inadequate as a roadmap because it's sorted by cash offered. But I agree we should build a Wekan that comprises a planned short-term roadmap for our community efforts.

22:43 <ocdtr_web> (Assuming the roadmap in the Sandstorm repo is the official long term goals for Sandstorm, of course, we should be hesitant to plan functionality that directly conflicts with it, presumably.)

22:44 <ocdtr_web> I will probably be able to do issue cleanup and tagging at some point in the near future, but so that our community group can all contribute on the roadmap planning, I do not think we should use the Sandstorm GitHub for assembling it.

22:45 <ocdtr_web> Similar to how I have linked to GitHub issues on the bounty board, we should link relevant GitHub issues in our roadmap.

22:49 <Guest43589> <ocdtr_web "(Assuming the roadmap in the San"> As far as I'm concerned, that's definitely the canonical longterm vision document for sandstorm. It's a bit out of date and incomplete in places and doesn't really lend itself to understanding timeline or priorities.

22:51 <ocdtr_web> The best way to define it is the biblical document the BDFL of the project laid out as the vision. So we should generally look to it as a place we can glean design decisions that will align with what Kenton would want to merge.

22:51 <ocdtr_web> But we should assemble our roadmap in terms of "here is what we want to try to focus effort on and fund development on in the next 6 or 12 months", persay.