azonenberg changed the topic of #scopehal to: libscopehal, libscopeprotocols, and glscopeclient development and testing |,, | Logs:
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<_whitenotifier> [scopehal] miek commented on issue #74: Add Agilent MSO6104A support via SCPI -
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<bvernoux> azonenberg, I have just installed Sonnet Lite ;)
<bvernoux> I'm waiting my registration key ;)
<bvernoux> The GUI is very old school ;) (like Windows98 GUI)
<bvernoux> License installed ;)
<bvernoux> I would like to simulate a very basic filter at start
<bvernoux> with OSHPark 4Layers spec
<azonenberg> Lite limits you pretty severely wrt maximum size, i plan to buy one of the full versions down the road
<bvernoux> ha really ?
<bvernoux> do you have hint to simulate a PCB ?
<bvernoux> it is not very clear how the layers works
<bvernoux> like TOP / GND
<bvernoux> I do not understand where to add the prepreg FR408 for example
<bvernoux> between 2 layers
<bvernoux> I'm not sure it work like that in fact ;)
<bvernoux> especially for the lite version
<azonenberg> The lite version gives you two conductor layers total
<azonenberg> So signal and ground plane, basically
<azonenberg> Top and GND can be largely ignored, they're basically the boundary conditions
<azonenberg> You're going to want to add layers between them
<bvernoux> ok
<bvernoux> I'm checking tutorial ;)
<azonenberg> Your stack should look something like top - air - metal 1 (on layer #0) - dielectric - metal 2 (on layer #2 - air - GND
<azonenberg> This accurately models a 2-layer board, and is a reasonably close approximation for the outer layer and ground plane on a 4+ layer board
<azonenberg> The top and GND layers are boundary conditions, you can specify whether to model them as conductive or free space iirc
<bvernoux> ha great
<bvernoux> I have not found a simple projet ready to test the result
<bvernoux> but there is a nice tutorial PDF
<bvernoux> Tutorial-Advanced_Digital_Design_using_Sonnet_gk_3.pdf
<azonenberg> If you buy the level 3 gold version, which is around $8K MSRP, you can go up to 3 layers
<azonenberg> The "professional" verison has no cap on layer count
<azonenberg> (everything below gold is still 2 layers)
<bvernoux> ha yes
<azonenberg> I wish openems etc was more usable, but i don't grok E&M physics well enough to write my own solver and openems's UI is basically nonexistent
<azonenberg> i dont care how good the solver is if i can't actually use it
<bvernoux> yes
<bvernoux> Sonnet seems very accessible
<azonenberg> anyway, gold's 3 layers would be enough to model a s-g-s [core] stackup
<bvernoux> Just need to understand those layers and the limitation behind ;)
<azonenberg> so basically the outer half of a six layer pcb
<bvernoux> It seems we can do some cool filters with Lite version
<bvernoux> ha ok when you say 3 layers in Sonnet it means to simulate a PCB up to 6 layers ?
<azonenberg> i mean half of a six layer
<bvernoux> ha ok
<azonenberg> if we assume the core is thick enough there isn't significant coupling
<bvernoux> so 3 layers in Sonnet is 3 copper layers in PCB
<azonenberg> Roughly
<bvernoux> including prepreg ...
<azonenberg> I think you can manage to steal an extra layer or two by using the boundary layers to model solid ground layers, etc
<azonenberg> but 3 layers of arbitrary geometry
<azonenberg> All of my work to date has been one signal layer above a reference plane
<bvernoux> so so far with LIte version it shall be enough design some Microstrip filters using only 2 copper layer (mainly top & bottom)
<azonenberg> Yeah thats the kind of stuff it's really intended for
<azonenberg> Not extracting S-parameters from a 64-bit DDR3 bus
<bvernoux> yes I imagine after the limit is the famous 32MB RAM ;)
<bvernoux> so the filter(s) will be limited in size / complexity ...
<bvernoux> What do you mean by Not extracting S-paramters for a 64-bit DDR3 bus ?
<azonenberg> i mean that would be just a little bit too big for the lite edition :p
<bvernoux> hehe yes
<bvernoux> anyway this Lite version is fun as we can design analyze RFID antenna ;)
<bvernoux> NFC 13.56Mhz / 868MHz
<bvernoux> with an example
<bvernoux> ha no in fact final version requires 3 layers ;)
<bvernoux> great I have found the examples ;)
<bvernoux> Project -> Browser Example
<bvernoux> lot of cool examples for PCB
<bvernoux> Lite version do not allow to export gerber :(
<bvernoux> will try with gif but I doubt the scale will be good to import it in KiCad ...
<azonenberg> you can export to DXF i think
<azonenberg> and kicad can import DXF?
<azonenberg> i talked to sonnet sales, apparently the gerber import/export costs as much as the solver itself
<azonenberg> its a third party tool they bundle
<azonenberg> they recommend not using it, and only provide it for people whose workflows require it
<azonenberg> DXF import/export is free and included iirc
<azonenberg> maybe not in lite, but in all of the paid editions
<bvernoux> I see DXF is disabled too
<bvernoux> Sonnet Error- XG5850:
<bvernoux> Sonnet Lite Limitation
<bvernoux> DXF Translator exceeds your Sonnet Lite license.
<bvernoux> representative for information about upgrading your license.
<bvernoux> Contact your Sonnet Software
<bvernoux> grrr
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