<monochroma>
azonenberg: so this is interesting, this is actually a lot more usable now, i don't thiiiink i have changed anything but these are the horizontal bands i'm seeing. before the gaps between bands were so wide the eye was barely useable https://i.imgur.com/jiU99fW.png
<azonenberg>
monochroma: I have seen that before but usually it's been less bad. I think what you're getting is aliasing between ADC codes and pixels
<azonenberg>
try adding another waveform group above it so the eye is less than 256 pixels high, and maybe playing with gain/offset to make the eye use more of the available adc codes
<azonenberg>
right now it looks like you have some headroom up top unused
<azonenberg>
this is a temporary workaround, not a proper fix, but i'm curious how it will affect the results
<monochroma>
ah ha, yeah, increasing the gain put it back to what i had been seeing before
<azonenberg>
Interesting. I wonder if your ADC is <8 bits on that scope
<azonenberg>
count how many stripes there are
<azonenberg>
i bet it's a power of two less than 256 :p
<azonenberg>
I have plans for some workarounds in the eye code to handle this. Gimme a bit, organizing some stuff in the office
<lain>
I count 86 in that latest image
<azonenberg>
interesting
<azonenberg>
i'm gonna add some diagnostics to my stuff
<lain>
I wonder...
<azonenberg>
Any chance we can get that vpn between my lab and yours working asap?
<lain>
what does the lecroy vicp interface spit out? does it report data in volts, or in adc counts?
<azonenberg>
being able to talk to your scope will rgeatly speed debugging
<azonenberg>
It reports in adc counts
<lain>
ok
<azonenberg>
but i convert to volts and do the eye stuff in volts
<lain>
I was going to say we set the probe atten. to 21 because we're using the hdmi probe card, I thought maybe the scope was doing some integer math and creating vacant bins
<lain>
still, it's possible there are 128 bins and the signal just isn't hitting min/max on the adc
<lain>
86 isn't *that* far off
<lain>
assuming a poor gain match
<azonenberg>
Yeah
<azonenberg>
also possible you're at max frontend gain and it just stretches at that point?
<lain>
yeah quite possible
<azonenberg>
and the adc is true 8 bits but you're only seeing half the possible codes or something
<azonenberg>
anyway, better handling of low-enob captures is a must
<azonenberg>
I'll work on it
<lain>
so the datasheet does claim this is an 8bit scope, and averaging to 11bit with enhanced resolution mode
<azonenberg>
(eres is a math function, you're not using that)
<lain>
so I'm guessing it's a frontend gain limit
<lain>
yeah
<azonenberg>
yeah i may respin the hdmi card with a lower atten probe on it at some point
<azonenberg>
we'll have to experiment
<azonenberg>
i have a bunch of blank boards, its just a bom swap
<zigggggy>
azonenberg back from shoprite
<zigggggy>
let me tell you
<zigggggy>
if you've ever been to shoprite on thanksgiving
<zigggggy>
take that and times by 10
<zigggggy>
lines were going to the back of the store..
<zigggggy>
lots of bare shelves
<zigggggy>
pasta was almost gone
<zigggggy>
no bananas
<zigggggy>
sauces gone
<zigggggy>
cereal aisle picked pretty good
<zigggggy>
almost no milk left.. i got the last gallon of whole milk
<lain>
huh, wonder why people are buying up milk. it's super perishable :P
<zigggggy>
buying it because they dont know if there will be any left by the time they need it
<zigggggy>
so buy it a couple days earlier than normal
<zigggggy>
i usually only buy half gallons of milk.. i bought a whole gallon for the same reason
<zigggggy>
i dont think there is a shortage of milk though.. just delay to restock
<zigggggy>
i mean i was there at like 7:30 pm and i spoke with my mother who said the shoprite by her was just as crazy and she went around lunch
<zigggggy>
so the fact they had milk still when I went means they are restocking
<zigggggy>
i didnt think it was going to be so busy but when i saw how mobbed it was, i expected there would be no milk for sure
<lain>
yeah...
<lain>
the panic buying is crazy, amazon is sold out of ramen, pasta in general, IPA, EtOH, ...
<zigggggy>
i think panic buying of food is no so crazy.. i'm not a panicker by any measure but 1) you're told you may have to self quarantine 2) other people are panic buying and i generally dont keep a huge stock of food so that causes me to panic buy now
<zigggggy>
i would argue there is an acceptable level of panic buying and an extreme level
<zigggggy>
for me it's buy an extra box or two of cereal, a bigger jug of milk, some more bread, some more chips
<zigggggy>
buying 15 cases of water is extreme though
<zigggggy>
i didnt even buy any water
<sorear>
the difficulty of preserving large quantities of sterile water is somewhat surprising
<zigggggy>
im really not worried about water.. i just dont see how a viral pandemic would affect tap water
<lain>
the water thing confuses me, I don't see how it... yes, that. it isn't in the water supply, and it's HIGHLY unlikely for it to ever be
<lain>
stocking up on non-perishable foods is reasonable I think, due to self-quarantine
<zigggggy>
oh i dont think people worry that it might be in the water supply
<zigggggy>
i think people worry the tap somehow gets shut off
<lain>
ahhh
<lain>
so concern over civil unrest or similar I guess?
<zigggggy>
i dont think it's that either.. just maybe too many people too sick to work to keep things running
<zigggggy>
that is the concern i would say
<zigggggy>
someone has to be at the water plant to keep it running
<lain>
fair point, yeah
<zigggggy>
but i just think the odds are very low of that happening.. i dont think it takes a whole lot to keep a water plant running
<zigggggy>
and the majority of people who do get sick will recover anyways and be back at work
<lain>
agree
<zigggggy>
if it was lethal as say ebola.. then i can't imagine what panic would look like
<zigggggy>
it would be scary
<lain>
the main issue is infrastructure overload due to rapid spread, most people below 60 will recover just fine
<lain>
>60 is more dicey.
<zigggggy>
yeah
<zigggggy>
i think main issue too is that you could be carrying it for a while without knowing and be contagious
<zigggggy>
otherwise it wouldnt spread so easily
<zigggggy>
my understanding is that it's not more contagious than say a cold or flu
<zigggggy>
its just that more carriers are able to walk around and spread it
<monochroma>
yup
<sorear>
is it spreading faster in absolute terms than a typical or bad seasonal flu?
<zigggggy>
it seems to be
<lain>
yeah iirc the latest information is that people are contagious for something like 1-2 weeks /while asymptomatic/
<lain>
which is why it's so bad
<zigggggy>
i've had the flu maybe 7 years ago and i still remember how bad i felt.. you cant walk around with the flu :P
<zigggggy>
so flu stays in check just by that
<lain>
but this was known since before the first US case. I'll resist the urge to rant about how piss-poor the CDC's response has been -.-
<zigggggy>
but that dr that testified in congress said that our system is not even setup to do what they want it to do
<zigggggy>
so i dunno how much it is a failing of the cdc vs the infrastructure to do mass testing was never implemented or considered or whatever else
<zigggggy>
sounding more like the latter
<lain>
well, mostly I think we could've locked down the borders MUCH earlier
<lain>
they weren't even testing people straight from Wuhan in the early days
<zigggggy>
well when trump banned travel from china, he got destroyed by democrats and the media
<zigggggy>
i dunno how he could have went further without massive backlash
<lain>
bleh.
<lain>
it's an annoying situation to be in, because if you do the right thing, very little will happen, and it's somehow harder to justify the means because "everything was fine"
<zigggggy>
yeah there seems to be a lot of evidence that china may have first known about this in oct and they tried to cover it up at first
<lain>
but if you don't do enough, then everything's on fire and people are like "WHY DIDN'T YOU DO MORE"
<lain>
etc
<zigggggy>
yeah i mean, closing borders to europe is getting backlash even
<zigggggy>
i would say at this point it seems like a pretty reasonable thing to do
<lain>
yep
<lain>
Italy is collapsing from what I've heard
<zigggggy>
the more i read about people testing positive the more i find they are linking it to italy
<lain>
they're turning away elderly people from hospitals because they're unlikely to survive, whereas younger people with treatment will be fine
<azonenberg>
whats funny is, latest news i heard china is quarantining travelers *from the USA*
<lain>
the mortality rate there is something like 15x that of any other country right now iirc
<lain>
not because the strain is worse, but because their system is beyond its capacity
<zigggggy>
i would argue every country should prob be closing their borders short term
<azonenberg>
i think we're beyond that point
<azonenberg>
it's already everywhere
<azonenberg>
domestic travel is where effort should be
<zigggggy>
i thought so too but a lot of drs are saying it would be a huge mistake to stop containment
<zigggggy>
that it's not too late
<azonenberg>
what i mean is, emphasis should be on minimizing domestic travel
<zigggggy>
ah
<azonenberg>
you can't keep it out of the country, that ship sailed weeks ago
<azonenberg>
reducing ferry/bus stuff, closing all stores other than food and medical supplies, etc
<lain>
yeah
<azonenberg>
make it so people have no reason to leave the house other than buying essentials
<zigggggy>
no, but a lot of medical policy experts are saying that containment can still work to stop or slow the spread
<sorear>
unfortunately, the US economy is not set up for that
<azonenberg>
sorear: i know
<azonenberg>
Which is why this is going to be a trainwreck
<zigggggy>
things like self quarantine, not going to events, isolating people who test positive
<azonenberg>
zigggggy: i agree, i'm saying that isn't far enough
<azonenberg>
more aggressive measures are needed
<zigggggy>
oh
<monochroma>
reduce the number of people who are like "LOL, I WAS ALMOST TOO SICK TO GO ON MY SKI TRIP! SO GLAD I STILL WENT AND HAD SO MUCH FUN! LOLOLOL! #JustTyphoidMaryThings"
<azonenberg>
exactly :p
<lain>
I'm not suggesting this happen but it's worth studying the fact that China majorly put a cork in this thing by mandatory quarantine of basically everyone in towns where it was really bad. you can't *do* that here (and I'm not sure you should, that's a tough freedom debate), but, yeah
<zigggggy>
well the problem is if you go too aggressive you might crash the economy and that could have even worse effects than this virus
<azonenberg>
lain: not advocating it, but i think it would be possible under martial law
<azonenberg>
from a legal perspective
<zigggggy>
martial law could crash the economy
<lain>
too many deaths could crash the economy too
<lain>
delicate balance
<zigggggy>
sure but it doesnt seem like this virus is going to have a crazy death toll
<zigggggy>
H1N1 had like 12,500 deaths
<zigggggy>
in the US alone
<zigggggy>
are we saying it could be more from coronavirus?
<zigggggy>
i dunno.. H1N1 killed young and old.. coronavirus is more likely to kill older people
<azonenberg>
we also have a lot of old people in the country
<sorear>
how confident are we that we know the death toll? has there been a spike in unexplained deaths?
<lain>
according to south korea's CDC, the death rate by age group is: 0.40% 50-59, 1.44% 60-69, 4.83% 70-79, 8.23% 80+
<lain>
which is a much more gradual curve than I expected
<zigggggy>
yeah, i think there might be a good chance it wont be as deadly as H1N1
<zigggggy>
esp with all the mitigation being carried out now
<zigggggy>
and it could really burn out fast once people are immune
<zigggggy>
like we've seen with other pandemics
<sorear>
I saw a fun thread a day or two ago about cardiac involvement
<lain>
I think the biggest hit is going to be like in Kirkland, WA where it hits senior centers
<zigggggy>
yeah senior centers really need to ban visitation
<azonenberg>
most around here have already done so i think
<awygle>
South Korea did it right imo. Massive testing. No harsh lock downs.
<awygle>
Already broken the knuckle of the curve
<zigggggy>
SK is a much smaller country.. prob a lot easier to do what they did
<zigggggy>
not saying we shouldnt be doing it, just saying logistics is very different
<monochroma>
same reason SK heas gigabit internet everywhere and rural US is lucky to have 2Mbit/s ;)
<zigggggy>
yeah SK is very densely populated
<lain>
off topic but that reminds me of a game I used to love playing, and how the netcode did NOT deal well with latency... adding one player with latency basically ruined the gameplay for early releases of the game
<lain>
turns out the game was developed in SK and they basically have fiber everywhere so uh
<lain>
the concept of a player connecting with >10ms ping was never really considered
<azonenberg>
meanwhile... i used to go by "nemesisgeek" on a bunch of stuff including AIM
<azonenberg>
that name dates back to the days of playing FPSes on dialup
<lain>
lol
<azonenberg>
the name meant "go pwn me all you want, I'll remember you when i get broadband"
<lain>
XD
<sorear>
we could have a country with great infrastructure (and cheap housing) in the densely populated areas, and still allow people like azonenberg who like living in unimproved wilderness to do so
<azonenberg>
you know its funny you mention that... one of the few things keeping me somewhat close to major cities now is the need for fast internet (ups/fedex delivers almost everywhere these days)
<azonenberg>
i would have much less of a problem living in the deep boonies if we either had reliable rural broadband (i mean "fiber to the farmhouse", not DSL)
<azonenberg>
or something like starlink with low latency and high bandwidth became practical
<lain>
azonenberg: let's move to the mountains and just setup some point to point gigabit microwave links to seattle
<azonenberg>
Lol
<lain>
yeah I'm very interested to see where starlink goes
<lain>
if it's affordable, reliable, and they hit their latency targets, then comcast is losing our business :P
<azonenberg>
i think it won't have the capacity to be useful. there isn't enough spectrum to replace a sizeable fraction of wired internet
<lain>
that's a lot of ifs though
<lain>
yeah
<monochroma>
i'm glad Musk finally said what i knew all along, but people did not get
<azonenberg>
not unless they have a huge number of satellites and extremely narrowband tracking antennas
<lain>
azonenberg: well that's basically what they're doing
<monochroma>
that the that the starlink cells are /WAY/ too big to accomodate cities
<azonenberg>
like AESAs or motorized dishes on everyone's roofs
<lain>
I've always wanted to put my own cubesats in orbit for my own personal post-apocalypse-net
<lain>
it's not *that* expensive
<azonenberg>
lol
<sorear>
"phased array antenna base stations" is a core part of the starlink elevator pitch
<sorear>
I have no idea if that's realistically happening
<lain>
actually now there's even smaller units of satellite, I forget the name but they're only a few kilobux to launch I believe
<azonenberg>
i suspect they will run into ITAR issues
<lain>
which, yes please. I can fit a hell of an SDR payload in something the size of my fist
<awygle>
you basically can't make it work without the phased arrays
<azonenberg>
or pull an uber and just ignore itar
<azonenberg>
we'll see how well that goes for them
<monochroma>
starlink will likely get a waver or something
<lain>
you can't police SPACE
<monochroma>
azonenberg: i suspect phased array itar restrictions will relax a bit, since the wireless industry is basically foaming at the mouth for it right now
<sorear>
with super duper MIMO and the full 40K satellites they've applied for permits for, I think it could be done without violating laws of physics, but "known technology" and "law" are still on the table
<monochroma>
i think it's perfectly doable for what musk stated recently, just the rural internet
<azonenberg>
Yeah
<azonenberg>
by the time an area gets populous enough that it overloads the satellites, it will be cost effective to pull fiber
<azonenberg>
is the goal i think
<sorear>
are we talking about a specific Wassenaar category here?
<zigggggy>
fiber will eventually get pulled to rural places.. but not at the pace some want ofc
<sorear>
it would be great if this could be integrated with cell systems so that a single terminal could be trasparently used with satellites and with fiber backhaul
<zigggggy>
azonenberg what speed do you get
<monochroma>
so, fiber is already getting pulled to a /LOT/ or rural communites due to federal money being available to do so. the downside is they way it's set up, they just have to dump fiber on the community to get paid. actual uplink speed was not important at the time. i saw a lot of Kansas towns getting huge fiber rollouts, but the whole town was served by a few DSL modems bonded together at the head end :/
<zigggggy>
hm
<zigggggy>
i would think as long as the wire is pulled, you've solved most of the problem
<zigggggy>
other stuff should be easy to fix?
<sorear>
Wassenaar only lists 'Electronically steerable phased array antennae' over 31 GHz, and according to the FCC application Starlink operates at 30 GHz
<sorear>
single mode fiber?
<monochroma>
zigggggy: the expensive part is running the backhaul fiber the dozens of miles to the nearest PoP
<zigggggy>
ah
<azonenberg>
sorear: i was thinking about the us munitions list
<monochroma>
zigggggy: in some cases it can be super easy, but the usual problem is the huge ammount of red tape (especially when you cross county/city lines) you have to get sorted out to run the utility
<azonenberg>
(c)(10)(i) or similar
<azonenberg>
category xi
<zigggggy>
monochroma yeah
<zigggggy>
even google had to bail due to all the red tape
<monochroma>
yeah, they seemd to be ticking off their host cities as well
<zigggggy>
yeah they bailed even after being very careful to select cities who had to agree to certain conditions
<monochroma>
can't remember what town it was but they damaged a lot of pavement due to a a mircro trenching experiment they did. when they left they had to pay the city a bunch of money to fix their goof
<zigggggy>
i think the big issue is that speed at which people want fiber to be rolled out... google wanted to go in and do it very fast and start collection subscription fees
<zigggggy>
but reality is you cant just put it up that fast
<monochroma>
yup
<monochroma>
well.
<monochroma>
sortof.
<monochroma>
depends on a lot of things
<monochroma>
comcast and AT&T can basically put it up as fast as they want
<zigggggy>
but they're also taking their time to lessen the cost
<zigggggy>
and they're already entrenched
<monochroma>
the cable companies usually have to be up within a specific time period, and are REQUIRED to service the ENTIRE city
<monochroma>
and usually have a monopoly
<monochroma>
that is due to cities adopting Cable Franchise Agreements
<zigggggy>
yes
<zigggggy>
well they do it so they dont have to do it themselves
<sorear>
what if something happened to all the people who have aesthetic objections to fibre on poles
<monochroma>
when they started doing it, it didn't make much sense
<monochroma>
internet at the time was not super required
<monochroma>
cable TV was not required
<monochroma>
both were a luxury
<zigggggy>
sure but telephone lines were also handled by a private company
<lain>
One Touch Make Ready is also a huge improvement, in places where that's adopted, re: pole attach rights
<zigggggy>
that's a good point
<zigggggy>
if the govt can make it easier to put up wires
<zigggggy>
they've already eliminated a major obstacle
<monochroma>
zigggggy: yeah, but afaik there usually isn't a franchise agreement with the city for the phone service
<lain>
in places *without* OTMR, when you go to hang lines, if someone else is (illegally) in your way, you have to wait for everyone in your way -- in the sequence they attached -- to fix it
<zigggggy>
which is the red tape
<monochroma>
i have mostly only seen it for Cable for... some reason????
<lain>
and when the people in your way are monopolies, they're not going to move
<lain>
and the thing is
<lain>
pole owners and cities have NO RIGHT to force them to move
<lain>
nor do they have any right to allow you to attach anyway, UNLESS they have one touch make ready laws.
<zigggggy>
well the poles are on private poperty and the govt grants them an easement i think
<zigggggy>
so they can force pole owners to allow others to attach wires
<sorear>
but people block any attempt to put up new wires on grounds of "unsightly"
<lain>
because, due to some super stupid, old laws, it's considered illegal discrimination for a pole owner or a municipality to force anyone to do anything regarding pole attachment (so, force someone to move, or detach, or etc)
* sorear
has mostly had this fight re. bus and rail electrification, but it seems relevant here
<zigggggy>
not sure how fiber is any more unsightly then all the other wires on the pole
<lain>
a prime example is comcast's cellsites
<zigggggy>
than*
<zigggggy>
we have way too much land to bury everything
<zigggggy>
its already expensive af to put up on poles
<zigggggy>
imagine burying it :P
<monochroma>
zigggggy: poles are usually part of a utility easement, and are usually completely owned by whoever put them up in the first place, usualy the power companies. if you have permission/legal rights to utility easements then private property doesn't really factor in at all
<zigggggy>
monochroma yeah but since the govt grants the easement i would think they can attach other conditions
<zigggggy>
like allowing others to use it for a nominal fee
<lain>
comcast keeps putting up huge, heavy (like, tens of pounds of weight) cellsites on the tops of poles, between the telecom and power area. this is supposed to require engineering review for pole stability and support, etc etc, but comcast is just doing it without asking because, as the laws are now, nobody has the right to undo anything they do. they can tell them to not do it, and if that happens then there
<lain>
may be legal grounds to undo it, but if comcast skips the review process entirely there is __no legal way to force them to undo it__
<lain>
you can find plenty of complaints from pole owners about this, written to the FCC, on the FCC's website
<zigggggy>
sometimes its better to do and not ask and deal with it later if there is litigation
<lain>
well the problem here is they're causing massive destruction and can't be held liable due to various old laws
<lain>
which prevent litigation
<zigggggy>
ah
<zigggggy>
well then its on the city or state to repeal it or change the laws
<lain>
it's federal
<zigggggy>
oh ok i dont know enough about it then
<lain>
and it's written such that state cannot override, apparently
<lain>
yeah
<zigggggy>
well anything can be challenged
<lain>
states are continuously challenging it due to the destruction comcast et al. are causing
<zigggggy>
a lot of federal laws trample state laws and are later found to be unconstitutional
<lain>
but so far the FCC isn't budging
<lain>
another huge issue is overlashing
<sorear>
if I were to mount an inert 1000kg tungsten cylinder on a utility pole, how would that look legally
<lain>
which is where, instead of properly removing unused lines, a company simply lashes new lines over old lines without proper engineering review. this adds significant weight to the poles and, in particular, creates a dangerous situation. ya see, the reason engineering review is required for pole attach is they need to ensure that the sum of the break strength of the lines between any two adjacent poles does
<lain>
not exceed the force exerted by large nearby trees
<lain>
with proper review, the lines should be limited to those that will break under the weight of a falling tree, preventing pole collapse
<lain>
but comcast and AT&T are *notorious* for overlashing, which is why poles collapse all the friggin time when trees fall
<lain>
they put too many lines up and, altogether, the lines are able to support the weight of falling trees, pulling the pole down instead of snapping
<lain>
sorear: if you're an ILEC, I don't believe there is any legal way to stop you or force you to undo it. as a normal citizen, I actually don't know what that looks like legally :P
<lain>
I think the complication comes when it's something used for telecommunication
<lain>
the laws, iirc, are written to prevent anyone from taking down telco infra, even if it's putting the pole it is mounted on in danger of falling
<lain>
and further, they can't force the telco to do anything
<lain>
they're very much leftovers from the days of Ma Bell, as I understand it
* lain
has been researching the requirements for starting up a CLEC
<sorear>
what happens if I'm a CLEC and I mount billboards on utility poles for extra revenue
<lain>
lol
<lain>
there's fiber running in front of our house, which we can use to get transit to our equipment in a Seattle datacenter... but we can't get them to run a drop to our house for under $6k
<lain>
so I wanted to know what it would cost to just become our own CLEC and run the damn fiber ourselves
<sorear>
can I start a CLEC and use it to mount a protest against architectural design review
<lain>
the short answer seems to be: it's actually more expensive if we want to do it by the book
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal-apps] azonenberg pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±5] https://git.io/Jv61E
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal-apps] azonenberg b2e7ed7 - Fixed other scopehal-apps stuff that didn't compile after the SCPITransport refactoring
<lain>
the pole attach is surprisingly straightforward. there's a website that, once you are a registered CLEC, you gain access to. which provides maps of all poles everywhere, including ownership information and engineering review paperwork access.
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal-cmake] azonenberg pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/Jv61u
<lain>
you go there, select the area you're trying to run lines, and you get a list of what to file and who to file it with
<lain>
which generally amounts to: tell them how much and what you're attaching, including datasheets for each type of line, then wait a month or two for them to OK it
<lain>
probably 70% of companies don't bother, and the pole owners can't do anything about that, but they certainly like it when you do things properly :P
<lain>
the expensive part is in getting permits for doing the actual pole attachments
<lain>
as best I could tell, you have to pull city permits to do work on poles within city limits, and the city's bylaws here state that in order to pull such a permit, you must be bonded for utility work
<lain>
bonding isn't awful though, the real kicker is that if you don't have a history of doing such work for something like >5 years, they also require that you deposit on the order of $45,000 with the city for a duration not less than something like 3 years
<lain>
the purpose of the deposit is insurance such that if you go out of business or die or otherwise disappear after having royally hecked up city infrastructure, they can use those funds to repair it
<lain>
but that's a lot worse than paying an existing company $6,000 just to string some fiber a couple hundred feet :/
<lain>
</ramble>
<azonenberg>
monochroma: back to on topic, there's your fix for the broken build
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal] azonenberg pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/Jv6Mv
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal] azonenberg 077ba4b - VICP: avoid generating blank replies if we get an empty packet
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal] azonenberg 9ad4c5e - LeCroyOscilloscope: avoid deadlock on IsChannelEnabled locking mutexes in wrong order
<azonenberg>
also hmm, before i do file open i need to close any existing stuff
<azonenberg>
winding down the session in progress will be a fair bit of work
<azonenberg>
it literally seems like every time i get close to implementing file load
<azonenberg>
i find another reason why i can't
<azonenberg>
first it was that i had no way to reconnect to the scope, now it's that i need to disconnect the existing session and close all of the windows and waveform views ifrst
<azonenberg>
good news is the yaks seem smaller
<zigggggy>
azonenberg when you hitting the grocery store
<azonenberg>
zigggggy: um... around the end of April
<azonenberg>
at the rate i'm going through stuff right now
<azonenberg>
we have no intention of going out anywhere near the height of the panic buying :p
<zigggggy>
you already stocked up?
<azonenberg>
We stocked up two weeks ago and topped off earlier in the week
<zigggggy>
wow
<zigggggy>
you already did your panic shopping
<zigggggy>
azonenberg prepared 2020
<azonenberg>
It's not panic shopping if it's planned in advance
<zigggggy>
you planned in advance to buy 2 months worth of food?
<azonenberg>
We normally have a fair bit in the house anyway just from canned stuff, freezer, etc
<azonenberg>
Just went a bit more than usual
<zigggggy>
PANIC SHOPPING
<azonenberg>
My usual preparedness assumes short term shelter in place after a natural disaster etc, not months at a time
<azonenberg>
So i did have to go a bit beyond what we usually keep on hand
<azonenberg>
Once this all blows over i will definitely be putting more thought into long term sheltering for next time
<zigggggy>
heh!
<azonenberg>
you forget i live in earthquake country
<zigggggy>
will you be buying the 365 day emergency shelter meals
<azonenberg>
expecting to be cut off from the outside world for ~2 weeks due to a quake knocking out bridges etc is just business as usual here
<azonenberg>
two *months* was more than i had planned for
<azonenberg>
Hence topping up supplies before things get really bad
<Famine>
i thought it was normal having 3-4 months worth of food on hand
<azonenberg>
Famine: look who's talking
<awygle>
azonenberg has a whole system, with tracked inventory and whatnot
<zigggggy>
azonenberg what will you do if a mob shows up to take your food?
<awygle>
don't worry, he has guns too
<zigggggy>
!
<azonenberg>
awygle: my stockpile is intended for SAR though
<awygle>
that's not unusual here tho
<azonenberg>
It's not supposed to be a long term shelter in place stockpile
<azonenberg>
that said, it would serve that purpose if i find myself holed up instead of out rescuing people
<Famine>
azonenberg, i have about 3 months because i'm cheap and sale shop lol
<azonenberg>
Famine: i was more talking about your name
<azonenberg>
very appropriate here
<Famine>
indeed
* zigggggy
breaks into Famine's stash
<awygle>
i have ~2 weeks of food
<awygle>
i live in a 1br apartment so it'd be hard to really stock up without pushing myself out into the hallway
<Famine>
zigggggy, keep your mitts off my kokuho rose
<zigggggy>
:O
<azonenberg>
awygle: when we got back from the grocery store yesterday i felt like i was preparing a submarine to go out on a deployment
<awygle>
lol
<azonenberg>
we were shoving boxes and cans in every square inch of the kitchen we could
<azonenberg>
and piling the rest on the dining room table
<awygle>
did you ever finish remodeling your kitchen
<azonenberg>
We never started
<awygle>
or any part of the house besides the lab
<azonenberg>
kitchen and bathrooms are on hold. We finished everything else, it's livable and painted
<azonenberg>
we've been here since august
<azonenberg>
actually living in the house i mean
<awygle>
last time i saw you everything was studs so
<azonenberg>
yeah its an improvement :p
<awygle>
i keep picturing your old place when you talk about stuff :p
<azonenberg>
now we're focusing on some other stuff... a bunch of excavation and drainage work outside, responding to flooding we had earlier in the year due to clogged drain pipes
<awygle>
always great
<azonenberg>
right now there's open trenches in the lawn pulling water away from the house but that's obviously not a viable long term solution
<awygle>
hope your existing pipes aren't cardboard
<azonenberg>
the existing outdoor drainage is beyond hope and is mostly being dug up and replaced
<azonenberg>
at lest on the downhill side. We don't know the state of uphill yet
<azonenberg>
but i expect it's almost as bad
<awygle>
my parents' house has less of a "drain pipe" and more of a "tunnel drilled through the dirt by a plumber's snake every 6mo or so"
<azonenberg>
then i have some hvac going into the lab, need to finish pulling cat5 and fiber
<azonenberg>
i've been slowly filling out the tray and conduit but i have a ways to go
<azonenberg>
Once all of the various stuff along those lines is taken care of, we'll probably redo the downstairs bathroom
<awygle>
is it you that didn't know that bathroom was there
<awygle>
and found it when you pulled down a wall
<azonenberg>
Lol no
<awygle>
or is that somebody else i know
<azonenberg>
i know about all of the rooms in the house
<azonenberg>
they're just not in great shape (the ones not yet redone)
<Famine>
awygle, that beats my old old place, it was a half dirt basement, the sump pump pit was literally a hole smashed into the concrete then dug out a little
<awygle>
lol ouch
<Famine>
the perks of living in a small town, which we thankfully moved far away from lol
<Famine>
azonenberg, speaking of pulling cable, i get to pay an electrician a small fortune to put in 2 more circuits and run the outlets 20ft to the other side of the basement. on the bright side, the rental company is actually letting me add more circuits/outlets
<azonenberg>
Famine: yay
<azonenberg>
i seriously considered doing that at my old rental
<azonenberg>
landlord and property manager were actually ok with it, but before i got the deal closed we ended up getting ready to move out
<Famine>
i'm running off a single 15A circuit, its painful
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal-apps] azonenberg pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-0/±5] https://git.io/Jv6MN
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal-apps] azonenberg 2d8dba0 - Refactoring: moved ScopeApp into its own file, preparation for file open
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<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal] azonenberg pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/Jv6N0
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal] azonenberg 370b899 - Oscilloscope: fixed memory leak of pending waveforms during deletion
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal-apps] azonenberg opened issue #80: glscopeclient has short hang with high CPU during startup. Investigate to see if this can be fixed - https://git.io/Jv6Ni
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal] azonenberg pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/Jv6AY
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal-apps] azonenberg pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±5] https://git.io/Jv6Ac
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal-apps] azonenberg 79e538a - HistoryWindow: prevent possible use-after-free during shutdown
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal-apps] azonenberg c6a6a44 - Continued work on session shutdown
<azonenberg>
OK so to start, i'm just going to error out if you try to load a save file and don't click "reconnect to scope"
<azonenberg>
Longer term i need to make a mock instrument class that i can use because channels, waveforms, etc all need a scope they can reference
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal] azonenberg pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/Jv6xq
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal] azonenberg 1d306ea - LeCroyOscilloscope: rearchitected mutex handling to eliminate possibility of leaving hanging mutex in AcquireData()
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<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal] azonenberg pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±4] https://git.io/Jv6xb
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal] azonenberg 89af3a7 - Added empty function for Oscilloscope to load config from save file
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal-apps] azonenberg pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] https://git.io/Jv6xN
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal-apps] azonenberg ca48577 - Continued work on file load. Can now create new instruments from save file but not configure them or set up any UI. See #3.
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal] azonenberg opened issue #101: Add trigger configuration to save files - https://git.io/Jv6hu
<_whitenotifier-3>
[scopehal] azonenberg labeled issue #101: Add trigger configuration to save files - https://git.io/Jv6hu
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<bvernoux>
hi
<azonenberg>
o/ bvernoux
<azonenberg>
i'm working on glscopeclient file-load support now. Also working with the PMK distributor to get ten probes worth of tips and ground accessories
<azonenberg>
starting to gear up to make ten beta units to go to people for testing once i do the final pcb spin
<bvernoux>
ha nice
<bvernoux>
on my side I shall receive soon 100 connectors 142-0771-831
<bvernoux>
SMA High Freq End Launch
<bvernoux>
planned for monday or tuesday
<bvernoux>
for a very good price ;)
<bvernoux>
UPS cost was heavy => 167Euros (about 180USD)
<bvernoux>
because of Trumps Tariffs ...
<bvernoux>
but raw price is 410USD for 100units
<bvernoux>
so at the end it is still about 4x times cheaper than when bought at DigiKey ;)
<bvernoux>
For ultra good connector with nice spec up to 26.5GHz
<bvernoux>
After that it will be time to solder them on both Boards received from OSHPark => Prob Test Board v0.4 16Feb2020 and TRL Board v0.1 ;)
<bvernoux>
In theory OSHPark 4Layers are as good as RO3450B
<bvernoux>
Er=3.66 for FR408 vs Er=3.48 for RO4350B ...
<bvernoux>
I plan to build same board with RO4350B later to compare both
<azonenberg>
Nice. Yeah rogers and fr408 were almost the same price at multech since in small quantity NRE dominates material cost
<bvernoux>
I think RO4350B is probably more stable with better spec when done at a good manufacturer
<azonenberg>
So for a one-off test fixture moving forward i think i will all be doing rogers
<bvernoux>
I think the most important part is quality of PCB and accuracy
<azonenberg>
Yeah
<bvernoux>
mainly for VIA, Trace
<bvernoux>
main issue with OSHPark is delay are very long
<bvernoux>
about 1 month between order and item received
<bvernoux>
Also just for information macrofab produce PCB in China & Taiwan
<bvernoux>
It was not clear on their website as they say everything is done in USA
<bvernoux>
But I have confirmation from them that my delays are due to the fact they produce the PCB in China and/or Taiwan
<azonenberg>
interesting. maybe they mean the assembly is in the usa?
<bvernoux>
yes assembly is fully done in USA
<bvernoux>
Texas
<bvernoux>
or
<bvernoux>
Mexico ;)
<bvernoux>
but in my case I take premium done in USA Texas
<bvernoux>
Interesting point with them is communication is very nice
<azonenberg>
lain has used macrofab on projects before and liked them
<bvernoux>
and they provide fulfilment and other nice services too
<bvernoux>
I have used them lot of time to check the process
<bvernoux>
So only with small quantities as I really love to do everything online with BOM/Placement with live quotation
<bvernoux>
It is the most advanced of all for that
<bvernoux>
Especially when sometimes it takes lot of weeks in china to have quotations ...
<bvernoux>
So far I'm very happy with ShenZhen2U
<bvernoux>
ultra responsive and accurate and fast
<bvernoux>
I'm waiting delivery of 200 boards to confirm that ;)
<bvernoux>
But pictures sent are very nice and I have even asked them to add some solder on connector
<bvernoux>
With other Fab they often do not send any photo ...
<bvernoux>
I heavily recommend to ask Iver Hui to manage production at ShenZhen2U ;)
<awygle>
does anybody know a reliable chinese supplier for injection molding?
<awygle>
or anywhere else i guess
<bvernoux>
I know one for Aluminium ;)
<bvernoux>
They are just excellent
<bvernoux>
but they are specialized only in aluminum stuff and they can do everything
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