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<thanh> yesterday's theme was about 'what platform wants', live recap at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ydaOAlWejU before moving to today's theme 'what society want', i.e: financial inclusions & millennial gen.
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<lab> stellar is so outstanding in sibos.
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<lab> some of guys are thinking blockchain is cool buzz word and others are thinking blockchain is a emerging profitable business. stellar is none of them.
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<eva> @lab I hope people listening get excited about it :)
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<thanh> to be honest, competition in this sector is fierce. Ripple, Hyperledger, Eris, Chain, Digital Asset Holdings have been trying for years to get into the settlement of banks & FIs, and the result til now is quite limited. Thing moves slow in that sector but they're not standing still without doing nothing. Recent incorporation of R3 for example. Even dinosaur like SWIFT is implementing new project to move closer t
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<dzham> I just mentioned http://interledger.org/ on #dev, but it might be more fitting here. I’ve read it, and I kindof grok it on a technical level, but I’m still not sure about the general implications
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<dzham> Not sure what to think about Ripple and their part in it. Did they shoot themselves in the foot, or is it genius?
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<thanh> Let's speak about Ripple(Labs), might be one of the earliest firm to target banking sector. They're got quite an army of bright, seasoned guys in the banking sector to lure banks into Ripple protocol.
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<thanh> well spotted, dzham.
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<thanh> except for Fidor & Earthport, little evidence of protocol adoption seen
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<thanh> it's quite clear IHO that the introduction of interledger is another pivot
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<thanh> allowing banks to continue running on whatever ledger they're using/intending to use;
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<thanh> and interledger is a proxy, layer for connect diff ledger (private or public ones) via its escrow feature; removing the need of global consensus.
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<sacarlson> from what I read in that http://interledger.org|interledger.org model they require an escrow that has to hold the funds to do the transfer. that's not a good model in my opinion verses just have trust that someone or somethink can freeze you funds for some time but not take it away is better
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<thanh> another way of speaking; til this moment, banks are not ready to become gateways and take part in the public ripple ledger. The biz model that they originally envision.
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<dzham> I’m listening to Charles Hoskinson right now (on Letstalkbitcoin), and he’s talking about exactly this. We’re going to have an internet of blockchains, linked together. And you pick-and-choose depending on the features you want
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<dzham> Stellar, e.g. has some really good features for assets, or securities
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<sacarlson> I guess to evolve the embeded contracts in stellar and other will have to act on events from other networks
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<sacarlson> not only based on local signatures and time but outside signatures and events from other networks
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<sacarlson> then it will seem as all networks are one
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<buhrmi> pick open-core ^^
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<thanh> at least, that's the common rhythm now.
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<sacarlson> ya open-core would be the perfect first choice to experment with cross contracts
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<buhrmi> feel free to do it
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<dzham> :)
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<sacarlson> but it would require changes in the cores of both
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<dzham> why?
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<sacarlson> oh unless the pass was maybe in only one direction
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<sacarlson> the contract has to look at the chain of the other to decide wether it is valid
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<sacarlson> at this point maybe you just setup a trusted point so changes are needed
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<thanh> last point that could be seen from that sector (in Sibos) is that, instead of trying to do everything themselves to directly get users (banks/FIs) on board- as in the last ~3 years, with little result; Ripple 'delegates' and build up partnership with consulting & integrating firms like Accenture, D+H, Volante to offer their service
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<thanh> and grow the footprint in the ecosystem.
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<dzham> That’s always been the part I’ve hated about ripple.. There’s little-to-no room for indie developers. Banks work with the big consultants, not with small fry
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<thanh> my expectation is that the reverse approach that Stellar use could boost faster pace of adoption
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<thanh> for end users & SMEs;
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<buhrmi> in the end, the creators of any of the networks want people to use their networks because they want to make a profit ... be it selling native currency, subscriptions, whatever...
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<sacarlson> I think I figured out how you could setup contracts between stellar-core and open-core using trusted automated witness observance to sign contracts on both sides
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<buhrmi> @sacarlson: tbh i don't even know what that means
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<thanh> under the buzzword of distributed ledger/real time payment or cross border payment that both Ripple & Stellar could power, it's just Earthport that find themselves a clear value proposition and adding values to its business partner (including Stripe). i.e: it goes out of labs and do the actual deliver.
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<thanh> one of a very genuine approach in this sector is looking deeply into the value/goal of digital currency and build up application on top of it; the way Reveal team @josh aiming. But i don't know how're they doing recently.
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<buhrmi> "Earthport - The largest open network"
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<buhrmi> where is it?
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<buhrmi> i'm neither bank, nor investor, nor payment provider, nor client
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<dzham> @burhmi: then you’re not interesting to them
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<sacarlson> an automated witness is just a robot that looks at events of anything, in this case it could be the abservance of a contract that is already signed by 1 of 3 signers on one network to signal the other network to do a signature on it's side
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<buhrmi> cause i don't got the 21 trillion $$$
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<buhrmi> how can they advertise an "open" network if they don't provide access to anyone
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<thanh> they serve at the lower layer in the finance stack; doing the cross border settlement for a number of banks (for certain corridors) and e-commerce providers. Wish that someone from Stripe are here and shed more light on this topic. For anyone interested in learning more about earthport & their value proposition in this sector: http://www.earthport.com/pr/earthport-annual-results-announcement-for-year-ending-30-j
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<buhrmi> that doesn't resonate with me - at all -
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<buhrmi> where's some technical documentation
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<thanh> >dzham [11:21 AM] @buhrmi: then you’re not interesting to them.
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<dzham> It’s open if you’re part of a closed group
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<buhrmi> haha
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<sacarlson> earthport? where do I find the API interface specs?
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<dzham> you don't
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<sacarlson> do they have contracts in there API so we can interface with them?
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<sacarlson> when the other networks smarten up they will all have smart contracts and we can have bots that sign the contracts
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<sacarlson> then all the networks will be like one
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<buhrmi> boom singularity
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<thanh> they serve a selected groups of clients (B2B sector). Don't think that they'll open up to end user anytime soon. They're working in the back end, actually; competing with CurrencyCloud and certain banks for small & medium value settlement. My though is that their services could well be suited on top of Stellar core, too.
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<sacarlson> my local thai banks has a simple API. I don't see them competing with them any time soon for me
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<thanh> South East Asia (Asean), except for Singapore, is the laggard in this sector (til now, at least).
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<sacarlson> I won't be happy until I can go to the 7/11 store and buy a beer with a shake of my phone
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<sacarlson> when that can be done the reset is futile
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<thanh> there might be leapfrog as the mobile penetration is quite good.
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<sacarlson> I hope so
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<sacarlson> oh and it cant cost me $2 to buy a $1 beer also
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<sacarlson> in fact I should get a discount ha ha
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<sacarlson> level one project we already have that on stellar
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<sacarlson> sounds in his speach that it's a dream, on our side it's history
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<thanh> yeah
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<sacarlson> it's going to take time for the world to realize what we already have
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<buhrmi> i missed (was out for lunch) when will it be available to watch
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<dzham> ditto
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<sacarlson> it was just him talking about using sms to control accounts as if it didn't aready exist
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<dzham> @buhrmi: I’m watching it now
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<buhrmi> sms to control accounts? awesome! here take our 30 million USD fintech funding!
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<raymens> Is there somewhere some documentation about the inner working on how the master account can distribute the funds in the `genesis` block?
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<buhrmi> it's nothing special... just use the private seed of the master account to make payments
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<raymens> And how do you know the private seed if setting up a standalone or local simulation node(s)?
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<buhrmi> it should be printed on the console when you initialize a new genesis ledger ... stellar-core -newdb
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<raymens> That makes sense, thanks :)
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<buhrmi> does it? ... lol
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<raymens> Somewhat lol, not sure about how else you would do it
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<raymens> It's a tricky thing
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<buhrmi> by not requiring funds ^^
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<sacarlson> raymens in ruby-stellar-base (and maybe similar in the other base sdk) to have access to the master key funds it's: master_keypair = Stellar::KeyPair.master
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<sacarlson> from this keypair account you can create transaction to any account or you can fund new accounts
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<raymens> @sacarlson: Yeah I saw usage of that, but how do you stop anyone else from using that?
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<raymens> Or do you just fund another private keypair at the start with all the coins?
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<sacarlson> you can eather move all the funds to another account or you can lock the account with added signer required
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<sacarlson> in the new live stellar master account I see they did both, they moved most the funds as you can't take the last 20 lumens, then they locked it
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<sacarlson> I didn't see they locked it so I tried funding it with 10 more lumens so I could put my name in the domain_home but lucky they locked it from me ha ha
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<raymens> Haha, what about the locking process? Is there some documentation about it? What does a lock actually do behind the scenes?
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<sacarlson> well to lock it from a single user one adds signers and changes the threshold of signers needed to perform certain tasks. I can show you examples in ruby
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<sacarlson> I have some examples of how to use the new multi-sign-server but it assumes you know the workings of creating and using multi sign accounts
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<raymens> I'm getting the hang of it, thanks for the examples
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<sacarlson> as I read that old example I'm not sure it still runs as they have changed the fees on the new version of stellar-core now running
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<sacarlson> this is an old example
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<raymens> It's okay. You're repo seems like a great sample hub :)
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<sacarlson> it's also not using some of the new tools available in the stellar_utility.rb package that does most the lower level stuf for you
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<sacarlson> ya that's what it's for examples
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<raymens> Your* hehe
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<sacarlson> when I started the sdk for ruby was very limited, not as good as the node libs are
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<sacarlson> or js libs I guess they are called
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<raymens> well it seems you managed to work around that ;)
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<sacarlson> well I'm lazy and didn't want to learn node. i've always liked ruby as my fav
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<raymens> I can agree with not wanting to learn node
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<sacarlson> what do you like to develop in raymens?
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<raymens> F# is my favorite at this moment
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<sacarlson> I don't even f# is off the top of my head
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<raymens> it's a functional-first language in the .NET (C#, VB) environment, somewhat like Scala is to Java
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<sacarlson> I've never seen nor used it
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<sacarlson> but I'm not a windows guy so..
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<raymens> It's slowly gaining traction. It's OSS for a few years now and most core development is done by the community. It also runs on Mac and Linux (using Mono (.NET port for Linux) atm)
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<sacarlson> but it would be a big step to start using that in development in stellar as we have no base for it
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<raymens> True hehe
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<sacarlson> we just stated a new base in python as I see eno just showed up he might talk you into working with that also
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<raymens> I think I can only be persuaded into languages that actually compile and have strong typing :) I can read ruby/python/js just fine though
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<raymens> anyway, time for lunch :)
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<sacarlson> I guess the choice here is node, ruby, go, c++. ruby can compile
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<dzham> node isn’t that bad for playing around with, but I’d probably go with golang for something more serious
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<sacarlson> ya for a production server go is probly the way to go
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<sacarlson> but I'll have someone else port my stuf to it if they end up liking it
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<sacarlson> ruby is way more fun for prototype
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<raymens> Is there somewhere still a copy of the old whitepaper?
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<jed> you mean the SCP paper?
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<raymens> yup
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<raymens> I see it's been updated on the 8th this month
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<jed> ah. we don't have old copies. david might
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<raymens> oh ok, it's not that important :)
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<eva> @raymens: sorry bout that - hope it’s okay
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<eva> maybe we could look into doing versioning?
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<Mr_SeLeNiO>
Hi
<Mr_SeLeNiO>
:D
<Mr_SeLeNiO>
Do you know any channel specifically for reveal coin?
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<mr_selenio> Irc channel
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<mr_selenio> Lol, slack is irc? I thought it was a different thing :p
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<eva> @mr_selenio: hey there! I don’t know any in particular, but you could always start one!
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<eva> (also Slack and IRC are different protocols, but we have a mirror set up for #general and #dev so you can use either)
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<mr_selenio> I have installed android irc and slack app and see these messages in both apps xD
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<eva> woooot!
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<mr_selenio> Take a look xD
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<thanh> i thought @matschaffer has set up a bot to mirror slack & stellar irc channel, so messages are sent back & forth between two sides. You may stay with the tool of your choice.
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<mr_selenio> Must stay with both :P
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<sacarlson> I started on IRC here but found some missing things as you don't see images posted and also when lines are edited in slack that's not seen the same on irc
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<sacarlson> on the positive side on IRC you can capture infinite records as in slack it seems the old stuf drops off
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<mr_selenio> Well, for stellarbi started with slack, but now i'm testing gridcoin and installed irc app, and just added stellar channel and found that are the same xD
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<mr_selenio> Stellar I**
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<thanh> wonder if there's a lazy to disable or ignore the nick/bot that does the the mirror task
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<thanh> lazy way
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<eva> @sacarlson: exactly, there are benefits to each
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<eva> @thanh: good question - I’m not sure
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<eva> I’m trying to dig into the Slack API one of these weekends...
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<buhrmi> nah, ignoring people on slack is not supported. already checked ^^
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<thanh> that's interesting, buhmi
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<buhrmi> i think it's because the developers didnt originally intend slack to be used for public facing chatrooms
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<thanh> yeah, just learnt that via quora.
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<mr_selenio> Should i create ##reveal or #reveal?
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<eva> Yeah makes sense - it’s definitely “intended” to be a organization-wide chat, but hey, it works well for communities too :)
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<eva> #reveal, probably
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<mr_selenio> Ok :p
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<buhrmi> yeah it works well until you start to really feel annoyed by what some people say ^^
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<buhrmi> then all u can do is leave the community
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<raymens> @eva yeah no problem :)
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