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<dzham> @eva: Is the stats page really up-to-date? Total XLM doesn’t match what’s in the ledger
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<jed> it is taking into account people that haven't upgraded yet
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<dzham> Ok, but the ledger says 101.6B and the stats page says 100.8B
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<jed> ah yeah that isn't hooked up yet
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<dzham> gotcha
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<lab> jed, what scenario will be dataentry used for?
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<lab> when i was thinking about recording something in ledger, i found two ways to store.
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<lab> adding signer or send to blackhole (eg. genesis account) account with memo
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<lab> first (signer with zero weight) is mutable and the second is immutable.
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<dzham> how about sending a memo to yourself?
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<lab> cool. it's cheaper method and also distinguishable from regular payments.
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<lab> although is cheap enough( 20 stroops for blackhole)
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<lab> sorry. 101 stroops for blackhole and 100 for self. right?
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<dzham> yes
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<lab> so we have about 3 stroops/byte distributed storage.
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<lab> eg, 300 XLM /1GB,
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<dzham> not too bad, but the retrieval.. ouch :(
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<dzham> put the hash in the ledger, put the file on IPFS
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<lab> it may be stored in big banks storage array. i bet each serious financial institute will save a copy of full history.
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<lab> it's eternity if stellar's view is accomplished.
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<lab> aws s3 is about $0.3/yr/GB
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<dzham> 3M transactions is going to take a while, and/or flood the network
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<dzham> so cost will likely be a lot higher
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<lab> sdf stores 3 copy and the ledger storage is about 20% efficiency.
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<lab> so $5/yr/GB
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<lab> it's the minimal cost for minimal storage
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<lab> the annual interest of 300XLM is 3 XLM in standard rate.
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<lab> then we got the equiblium price, 1 XLM = $1.8
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<lab> it's amazing. can any one confirm my calculation?
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<dzham> I’m not sure I follow
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<lab> eg, if i'm irrational and buy all XLM(100B), it will cost about $200M
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<lab> and generate garbage tx via the XLM, the memo data it will be 300PB, sdf/community need 5ZB storage to guarantee 3 copy in 20% efficiency.
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<lab> sorry, 5EB
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<lab> 10^18B * $5 /10^9B = $5B
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<lab> annual cost.
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<lab> 5EB * $5/GB = $25B
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<lab> and the inflation incoming is only 10B XLM.
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<lab> so each XLM need be $2
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<dzham> Ok, so you’re saying — Let’s use all XLM to pay for immutable data storage, as memos
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<dzham> And then you derive the cost from that
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<lab> it may be not us but attackers
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<lab> but the cost is varying by distribution ratio(because sdf will not be attacker). i am plotting a curve
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<dzham> :)
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<lab> i assume the current distribution is xlm (4.8%) not held by sdf or stripe(2%), 2.8%
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<lab> in current price, potential attackers pay 1/3 money to flood than stellar pays to maintain.
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<lab> so if the community cannot provide enough price support, the project may be more risky to stall more stellar distributed.
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<lab> one strong argument: sdf should not provide lumens to *uncertain* people in price under $0.007. this kind of behaviors is increasing distribute rate and exposing project more to stall risk.
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<lab> second argument: to reduce attack risk, a strategy is to leverage xlm acquire cost. ie. sdf should have get 2.8B*$0.0072 = $20m by selling xlm to holders. does it look like a ridiculous number?
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<vaevictis> So stellar is still giving avay some moneys for newcomers or not?
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<dzham> Not at the moment, not sure when the giveaways will resume
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<vae>
anyone alive
<vae>
?
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<john> @vaevictis: XLM are available for purchase at BTC38, Poloniex & Kraken just to mention few...
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<tintin778> Hello, is there a way to cold store XLMs ?
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<bartek> @tintin778: sure, store your secret seed in a safe place and sign your transaction using a safe, offline machine
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<bartek> I created a Stellar Cold Wallet to sign transactions offline on Raspberry Pi: https://github.com/bartekn/stellar-cold-wallet but because of electron is not stable yet at arm processors (https://github.com/atom/electron/issues/3719) I wouldn't recommend it. it should work on windows/linux/mac but make sure the transaction is correct before submitting it to the network.
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<tintin778> Thank you
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<eva> Welcome @xiibit and @acetakwas, great to have you here!
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<acetakwas> eva: Thanks. Glad to be here.
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<eva> I see from the #dev chat that you’ve (likely?) met Scott - what’s got you the most interested in Stellar?
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<acetakwas> Yes, I have,
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<acetakwas> It's my goal to make some meaningful contributions to open source projects in the year. And Stellar feels like a great platform to achieve that.
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<eva> That’s fantastic!
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<eva> Have you done any open source contributions in the past?
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<acetakwas> I'm noob to FinTech, but I do anticipate an exciting learning experience.
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<acetakwas> Are you a dev yourself?
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<eva> @acetakwas: I’m a beginner dev, yes. I’ve started learning Python this past year and really love it.
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<acetakwas> That's nice. My learning of Python began (seriously) about two years ago. I started using Flask last year.
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<acetakwas> Learning Flask has helped cement most of the knowledge.
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<eva> I could see that for sure. I’ve been working with django pesrsonally. I really love their community.
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<acetakwas> I should do some Django this month. DjangoGirls
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<acetakwas> DjangoGirls is a workshop for girls coming up here in Lagos in February
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<acetakwas> And I signed up to memtor at the workshop.
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<eva> Oh that’s fantastic, djangogirls is my favorite org! I actually used their tutorial to learn myself. I tried a few other tutorials, but theirs was by far the easiest to get through. http://tutorial.djangogirls.org/en/index.html
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<eva> I didn’t know there was a workshop in Lagos - I’d love to hear how your experience as a mentor goes.
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<eva> I’m guessing you might actually be teaching that same tutorial :)
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<eva> Have you done much mentoring before @acetakwas ?
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<eva> Welcome @ajafik!
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<acetakwas> Oh interesting! Funny I haven't even had enough time to thoroughly go through the tutorials. But I will. And I'm pretty confident I should be fine on the day.
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<acetakwas> Well as far as mentoring goes, I have some teaching experience. :)
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<eva> Oh, I’m sure you’ll be totally fine. A lot of it is basic programming skills like being able to set up a server, use git, things like that. Not that those are necessarily easy things, but that if you have other programming experience you’ll probably know ‘em. It also spells out every step in the tutorial, so even if you don’t know what you’re doing you’ll be able to quickly read it and figure it out :
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just typos :P Oh cool, that’d definitely work!
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<eva> Love that you’ve been a teacher and are now a student :)
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<ajafik> Thanks @eva
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<eva> Sure! It’s always great to see new folks interested in Stellar. What makes you most excited or interested in the project?
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<ajafik> The experience of the event in Lagos was great.
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<eva> Oh you heard about it there, fantastic.
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<eva> Looked like there were a lot of folks there!
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<ajafik> I was there
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<eva> @ajafik: do you have a background in open source / programming?
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<ajafik> yes I am a software Developer
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<ajafik> A product lead in Fintech apps where i work
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<eva> Oh, that’s awesome, seems like Stellar would be a natural interest then :)
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<ajafik> I have gotten the Java resources on the Github
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<ajafik> Need to check it out with a sample Android app before the Technical section of Stellar on Wednesday in Lagos
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<ajafik> To check how it works
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<ajafik> I do have an idea been delayed because of the Fintech regulatory body here in Nigeria before now
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<ajafik> I believe Stellar should help me that.
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<eva> Great, please do, and let us know if you have any questions (#dev channel here is best for that). Totally understand about regulatory issues … that’s the idea behind Stellar though. To make it easy for any developer to plug into the existing network.
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<ajafik> Looking forward to release Innovative products for Africa with this
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<eva> Can’t wait to see what you come up with @ajafik. Can you talk about any of your ideas, or are they under wraps for now?
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<ajafik> Under wraps
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<ajafik> ok
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<eva> Gotcha. I figured, but never hurts to ask. :)
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<eva> Nigeria is definitely a place to watch for innovation - really excited to see what happens there with Stellar once developers like you dig into it
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<ajafik> great.
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<fragslack> just joined. Is the bitcoin distribution program still on ?
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<eva> @fragslack: hey, welcome. Yup, still on - just delayed due to the network upgrade.