<kbeckmann>
daveshah: what do the VCIB_DCU* tiles do in LFE5U-25F ? got curious if the LFE5U devices have some more untapped features.
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<daveshah>
kbeckmann: they would be interconnect to the SERDES
<daveshah>
Which does exist as other people have measured the ESD diodes on what would be the SERDES pins
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<kbeckmann>
ohh...
<kbeckmann>
that's interesting
<whitequark>
i wonder if you can use that SERDES for something like USB2 which would be way under spec
<tnt>
I soldered a non-serdes variant to a serdes ready pcb. First impression is that it seems to be pulling more current than it should. I haven't actually tested if it works at all yet or not though.
<daveshah>
tnt: oh very interesting
<clever>
whitequark: how would a SERDES block typically deal with changing the direction of flow? and the non-standard usb states where you have high,high or low,low?
<clever>
non-differential* i mean
<whitequark>
you can disable SERDES TX and termination by configuring it appropriately and enabling power down move
<whitequark>
non-standard USB states can be handled because most SERDES let you transmit low-frequency sideband data on the same lines
<whitequark>
*non-differential
<clever>
and can you get the SERDES RX on the same pair?
<whitequark>
well... you can connect them
<whitequark>
physically on board
<clever>
ah, bit cheaty but as long as reflections dont get out of hand
<tnt>
daveshah: of course it's ... 1 sample ... I could also have screwed up something.
<clever>
that would probably allow any differential signal, if you can meet the symbol rate, hdmi/dsi/csi/usb/pcie
<whitequark>
serdes in 25f are probably not qualified
<whitequark>
so USB3 is almost certainly out
<daveshah>
^
<whitequark>
as it stretches the capacity of even normal serdes
<daveshah>
yeah, most of them might work OK
<clever>
whitequark: what about aligning a SERDES RX to an incoming clock preamble?
<daveshah>
but some might be really bad
<whitequark>
clever: that's just normal serdes operation, no?
<clever>
ive not worked with SERDES much yet, mostly just been reading the docs on how the analog-y end works
<whitequark>
ah i'm the opposite
<clever>
hdmi for example, has 4 differential lanes, the clock lane just runs at the raw pixelclock (min 25mhz), one complete cycle per pixel
<tnt>
For USB2 you'd basically be using the serdes as a oversmpler and so cdr in fabric. Not sure preamble would be long enough for CDR.
<clever>
but the other 3 lanes (r/g/b) run at 10x that, and use 10/8 encoding
<whitequark>
hmmm
<clever>
so you need a 10x PLL to lock onto the pixel clock, and the pixel pair doesnt even need a SERDES really
<clever>
but, the clock and r/g/b lanes may be different lenghts
<whitequark>
pixel pair?
<clever>
so you need a PLL with phase-offset taps
<clever>
and then you tune each rx (r/g/b) to the right tap, to deal with the delay
<daveshah>
You could probably just use an IO running slightly overclocked at 960Mbps to oversample USB 2, tbh
<whitequark>
daveshah: the idea was that using SERDES would lower the demands on fabric
<whitequark>
unclear if it's a win or a loss
<whitequark>
overall
<clever>
whitequark: once the 3 rx lanes are tuned, you are getting 30bits per pixel, each channel had 4 special 10bit codes, to signal that its in a blanking period
<tnt>
daveshah: heh, usually for soft cdr 4x oversample is what I've seen done.
<clever>
whitequark: during that blanking period, after decoding those 4 special symbols, you get 6 bits out (2 per lane), each pixel-time, 2 bits are for hsync/vsync
<daveshah>
yeah if you want 4x oversampling then I think the SERDES is the most realistic option
<clever>
and during the active period, you have 256 10bit symbols, to map to the 8bit space, for RGB888
<clever>
the only funky stuff left, is that during blanking, those special 4 symbols, have a high number of edges, so you can tune the PLL phase-taps
<clever>
but during the active period, the 10bit symbols are using some funky accumulator math stuff, to have as few edges as possible
<clever>
the latest protocl ive been digging into, is android-auto
<clever>
basically, its a way for a usb device (your phone) to stream h264 video content to a usb host (the radio in a car), and get touch events back along the same path
<clever>
the official android auto app, then renders an android GUI over that h264 stream, and lets you use a very limited set of apps
<whitequark>
sounds cursed
<clever>
ive found 3 open-source implementations of the radio end of the link
<clever>
so you can replace the radio with a pc or tablet
<clever>
but ive yet to find an implementation of the phone end
<clever>
those DSI docs you linked will probably come in handy later, when i get to that peripheral on the pi
<clever>
hdmi/dsi/composite are currently off the table, because of power gating to PLL's
<clever>
opensource hw 264 decode is also off the table currently, its using an unknown instruction set on a dedicated DSP, that is specialized for mpeg2/h264 encode/decode
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<pie_>
clever: ohai
<clever>
*waves*
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<hl>
if anyone needs PCIe or MIPI DSI, or other MIPI specs, I've got them: https://www.devever.net/~hl/f/catalogue.txt (grep 'PCI/' or 'MIPI/'). all JEDEC, most of SCSI, ATA too. /msg me if you want anything there
<nats`>
better than the usual draft found everywhere ?
<Gracana>
Wow, very nice collection.
<mwk>
hmm
<mwk>
would you happen to know where to find the DFI (DDR-PHY thing) spec?
<hl>
aah, DFI
<sorear>
why are Z13 and Z14 under POWER?
<hl>
sorear: :> yeah it's kind of an 'IBM' directory >_>
<sorear>
what I want to read today is a privileged architecture supplement for anything newer than UltraSPARC T2 but it doesn't look like you have one either
<hl>
damn, that's obscure
<hl>
if oracle isn't publishing the bloody things, my guess is you're screwed
<sorear>
the user-level oracle sparc architecture 2015 and 2011 documents are easily findable but leave a lot unanswered about hyperprivileged and mmu stuff
<hl>
your only hope is probably to infer stuff from linux/arch/sparc (possibly oracle unbreakable linux's gpl dump, if they haven't been mainlining it, I hear arch/sparc is bitrotting)
<sorear>
no arch/sparc/kvm :(
<hl>
aw
<hl>
if you were _really_ desparate, you could snarf @oracle.com emails from arch/sparc contributors and send a polite email with questions, but, yeah
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