wumpus changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<amiller>
i think checklocktimeverify can make those lottery examples and cross-chain-atomic swap examples much easier
<amiller>
and require fewer complicated rounds of interaction between the parties
<amiller>
you *can* do it without CLTV, but you need to basically create a transaction ahead of time with an nLockTime, get the other party to sign it without seeing the transaction it depends on
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<Eliel>
amiller: isn't that somewhat risky due to malleability?
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<amiller>
Eliel, yeah i think so... so CLTV means you can do this without worrying about malleability too another benefit
<GAit>
Eliel: only if the attacker knows the transaction or has enough reach to malleate enough % of transaction to make payment channel generally insecure/risky
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<nsh>
can you elaborate GAit
<GAit>
I was agreeing with Eliel
<GAit>
and amiller
<GAit>
i recall someone at some point malleating a lot of transaction
<nsh>
ok
<Eliel>
My understanding is that the current bitcoind limits relaying malleated transactions quite a bit by having more strict rules for relaying than what is accepted in blocks.
<Eliel>
I expect relay level protections are good enough for practical use.
<Eliel>
as in, it'd basically take a miner wilfully including malleated transactions for anything to happen.
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<GAit>
as of now any implementation would need to be prepared to catch malleated confirmed transaction and provide new nLockTime transaction
<GAit>
with CLTV it's atomic, although i often wonder about its privacy implication
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<Eliel>
Well, if the malleability issue can be tackled, I don't think CLTV is particularly useful for this use case.
<iddo>
attacker can attach higher fee to the malleated transaction, so it'd depend on whether miners are running unmodified client, or they're rational
<iddo>
CLTV is great, it removes the need for refund transaction, in payment channels etc.
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<iddo>
also solves malleability
<waxwing>
i guess people here would know, am i right in saying that the definition of c_i in 4.4 of the cryptonote whitepaper is wrong?
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<iddo>
actually i guess i'm wrong, attacker cannot change the fee in transaction he mutated
<amiller>
has anyone written the CLTV version of our favorite transactions
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<amiller>
waxwing, what's wrong with it?
<amiller>
oh
<waxwing>
amiller: it says c - sigma(c_i) for i=0 to n
<waxwing>
should be i != s or some such
<amiller>
it should be c - sum(w_i, for i not in s)
<amiller>
yeah
<waxwing>
trivial but when you're clueless these things slow you down :)
<waxwing>
would have been more intuitive to use w_i instead of c_i as well
<amiller>
yes
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<jcorgan>
woo my bitnodes hardware just arrived. there goes the rest of my afternoon :-)
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<dpfs>
Any good advice out there for blockKicked block recovery/resubmit for valid bitcoin block kicked due to bad worker/user names? Already deleted Redis database entries on all shares associated with bad worker/user names while trying to fix issue. Any help and reward of 10% goes to you. We are using NOMP.
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<dpfs>
ping admin
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<Adlai>
!ops
* Adlai
brainstorms the nicest way to spell 'gtfo'
<dpfs>
Kicks work well
* Adlai
kicks dpfs in the shins
* dpfs
crying
<Adlai>
so you'd actually have to calculate all but the first s, but only the last calculation involves the signing key
* dpfs
at hospital with broken leg
<dpfs>
Every share or block hash?
* Adlai
casts it to an int, clots overflow and now broken(dpfs->leg) -> 0
<Adlai>
also /topic, at least read the logs, it's the least a spammer could do
<dpfs>
You'd be surprised how close on topic I am.
* Adlai
loves supplies
<dpfs>
I have more than a few things to contribute here once I get past this.
* dpfs
wondering what's wrong with piping to null
* Adlai
redirects /dev/null to /u/nullc
<Adlai>
also, "reward of 10% goes to you" seems the antithesis of "not about short-term Bitcoin development"
<Adlai>
at the very least pitch your needs in #blockstream
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<dpfs>
Unless, I'm also implementing error correction in code and not just some noob trying to save a lost buck...
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<dpfs>
If you have some ideas, please share. Otherwise, stfu because you're making it obvious that you have no knowledge to share.
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<Adlai>
all i know is that i'm clueless about these things so my job is to slow you down
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* dpfs
grins
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<kanzure>
fluffypony: ping
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<dpfs>
Btw, the only solution for new theoretical ideas to come to market is creating the public perception that it's an accounting solution.
<Adlai>
please shill joinmarket elsewhere
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<dpfs>
What's Adlai an acronym for? Anti Developer Lacking All Intelligence?
<Adlai>
Androirc Does Leak All Internetprotocoladdresses
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* dpfs
grins
<dpfs>
That is cool
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<dpfs>
Seriously, if my question is *that* rattletrip --it's faster to eliminate things by letting it pass.
<dpfs>
Similar to IP
<dpfs>
Detection is a 2-way street
<gmaxwell>
Adlai: No. Go try to figure out how you'd sign for that.
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<dpfs>
Jesus, it's been training others all day and I can't get some input to save my crippled legs lol
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<M-_mis>
.
<dpfs>
Adlai: You wouldn't believe how many devs I talk to that don't understand the basic concepts Debit && Credit who think they have the next big idea.
* nsh
points to the quiet, people reading sign on the wall
<Adlai>
so... "just choose s_i at random" is confusing me. the random scalar is k_j, s_i depends only on e_i-1 until i=j
<nsh>
Adlai, you can 'go back in time' on any vertex in the borromean ring