sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
<Eliel_>
If all you had was the real merkle tree to communicate which transactions you're mining, you'd avoid adding a lot of transactions at once to manage your orphaning risk. However, with a commitment outside the merkle tree, you can just dump all transactions in there that you have since it doesn't affect the orphaning risk.
<Eliel_>
so, basically, having that option improves the theoretical capacity of the system.
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<mmeijeri>
ah ok, that makes sense
<mmeijeri>
it's a bit similar to Ripple's consensus mechanism
<Eliel_>
mmeijeri: kind of, but it only forms a very weak consensus. It's enough in this case since every miner has strong incentives to conform.
<Eliel_>
it's funny how at first glance it might seem miners have an incentive to hoard transactions to themselves so they can grab the fees for them but this kind of turns that on it's head.
<Eliel_>
Although, miners still have that incentive for very high fee transactions though. But at the same time, that disincentivizes users from using high enough fees for that to happen.
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<petertodd>
IIRC the compact proof-of-hashing power (aka proof-of-proof-of-work) stuff had issues with variance; anyone have a link to that issue?
<uiuc-slack1>
<amiller> petertodd, the proof-of-proof-of-work tidily fixes all the problems with variance, you should look at this if you haven't http://fc16.ifca.ai/bitcoin/papers/KLS16.pdf
<petertodd>
amiller: thanks, looking at that now
<petertodd>
amiller: am I correct in saying the variance issue is because we need to prove that the blocks are actually interconnected; IE, does the variance issue not apply to standard fiat-shamir type stuff?
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<uiuc-slack1>
<amiller> so the fiat shamir thing is like, you claim you have a block chain that is 450000 blocks long, so you pick a random sample of k blocks, and you're confident with high probability that you have at *least* 440000 blocks or so
<petertodd>
amiller: right, but what you didn't prove is that the 440,000 blocks actually formed a chain
<uiuc-slack1>
<amiller> but since many of those are also in common with the honest chain, that doesn't help so much
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<petertodd>
amiller: ah right, so actually we've got two issues
<petertodd>
amiller: in any case, I'm askin the question because I'm writing up a proof-of-coins thing, and wanted to make sure the variance issue *didn't* apply to it
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<petertodd>
amiller: though I noticed for that, we do have a "doublespend" issue - the merkle tree needs to be a ordered mapping by coin id, or else you can reuse coins in the proof - kinda obvious, but I didn't see that mentioned in the writeups I looked at
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* nsh
reads up scrollback
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* [ANDREI]
:)
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