sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
CubicEarth has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Dizzle has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
HostFat__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
HostFat_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
bildramer has joined #bitcoin-wizards
BitBully has joined #bitcoin-wizards
BitBully has quit [Client Quit]
waxwing has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
waxwing has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Pr0t3us has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
cluckj has joined #bitcoin-wizards
quietbea1t has joined #bitcoin-wizards
harrymm has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
harrymm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dnaleor has joined #bitcoin-wizards
priidu has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
laurentmt has joined #bitcoin-wizards
laurentmt has quit [Client Quit]
NoBoD has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
HostFat__ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
HostFat_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
CubicEarth has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Ylbam has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
Pr0t3us has joined #bitcoin-wizards
CubicEarth has joined #bitcoin-wizards
NoBoD has joined #bitcoin-wizards
NoBoD is now known as Guest65463
Guest65463 is now known as Fibonacci
jtimon has joined #bitcoin-wizards
CheckDavid has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
maaku has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
edvorg has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
maaku has joined #bitcoin-wizards
logstash has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
McLovinMcLovin has joined #bitcoin-wizards
McLovinMcLovin has quit [Client Quit]
Ylbam has joined #bitcoin-wizards
pacsghost-btc has joined #bitcoin-wizards
pacsghost-btc has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
uiuc-slack1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
uiuc-slack has joined #bitcoin-wizards
uiuc-slack has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
uiuc-slack has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Guyver2 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
lmacken has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
lmacken has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dnaleor has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Davasny has joined #bitcoin-wizards
quietbea1t has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
Guyver2 has quit [Quit: :)]
harrymm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
harrymm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
McLovinMcLovin has joined #bitcoin-wizards
paveljanik has joined #bitcoin-wizards
paveljanik has joined #bitcoin-wizards
paveljanik has quit [Changing host]
waxwing has joined #bitcoin-wizards
priidu has joined #bitcoin-wizards
harrymm has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
McLovinMcLovin has quit [Quit: Leaving]
MoALTz has joined #bitcoin-wizards
harrymm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
CheckDavid has joined #bitcoin-wizards
CubicEarth has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
aguycalled has joined #bitcoin-wizards
pro has joined #bitcoin-wizards
harrymm has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
harrymm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
harrymm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
aguycalled has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
CrazyLoaf has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
aguycalled has joined #bitcoin-wizards
kenshi84 has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
kenshi84 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
harrymm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
CubicEarth has joined #bitcoin-wizards
CubicEarth has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
kristofferR has joined #bitcoin-wizards
kristofferR has quit [Client Quit]
alpalp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
alpalp has quit [Changing host]
alpalp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
kenshi84 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kenshi84 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
kenshi84 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kenshi84 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
waxwing has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
str4d has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Ma_De has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jtimon has joined #bitcoin-wizards
waxwing has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Ma_De has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
harrymm has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Guyver2 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
str4d has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
CubicEarth has joined #bitcoin-wizards
CubicEarth has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
harrymm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
harrymm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
kenshi84 has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
alpalp has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Guyver2 has quit [Quit: :)]
alpalp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
harrymm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
alpalp has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
alpalp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
reBrain has joined #bitcoin-wizards
WungFu has joined #bitcoin-wizards
harrymm has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
kenshi84 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
aguycalled has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
aguycalled has joined #bitcoin-wizards
quietbeast has joined #bitcoin-wizards
quietbeast has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
WungFu has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
harrymm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
harrymm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Sonny_Jim has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Sonny_Jim has left #bitcoin-wizards [#bitcoin-wizards]
Sonny_Jim has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Sonny_Jim has left #bitcoin-wizards [#bitcoin-wizards]
harrymm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
LIERO has joined #bitcoin-wizards
reBrain has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
aguycalled has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
alpalp has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
blackwraith has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Sick_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
harrymm has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
Guest67383 is now known as mr_burdell
mr_burdell is now known as Guest86034
tromp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
LIERO_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
LIERO has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Ma_De_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Ma_De_ has left #bitcoin-wizards [#bitcoin-wizards]
LIERO has joined #bitcoin-wizards
LIERO_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
droark has quit [Quit: ZZZzzz…]
quietbea1t has joined #bitcoin-wizards
alpalp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
alpalp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
alpalp has quit [Changing host]
quietbea1t has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
Fibonacci has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
kristofferR has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Fibonacci is now known as fibonaccicoin
fibonaccicoin has quit [Changing host]
fibonaccicoin has joined #bitcoin-wizards
fibonaccicoin has joined #bitcoin-wizards
aguycalled has joined #bitcoin-wizards
quietbeast has joined #bitcoin-wizards
aguycalled has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
CubicEarth has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<kanzure>
petertodd: i think your 'validity challenges' would need to be on the p2p layer. IOW, sending incomplete blocks (or rather: refusing to furnish proofs, or fraudulently not having any proofs) should cause anti-dos ban stuff --- in particular, it should cause loss of reputation of the pubkey of the originating node. there's still a sybil problem (and a single IP address + node can spoof a bill...
quietbeast has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
<kanzure>
...ion pubkeys to a billion other nodes) but you could show a loss of reputation due to proof-request-dos or something.
<sipa>
kanzure: light clients won't ask for incomplete blocks
<kanzure>
sipa: in petertodd land (where things are a bit different) his question has been, how do you make a proof of fraudulent withholding of large amounts of data? and how do you broadcast that securely if your broadcast mechanism is otherwise preoccupied by transferring other data?
CubicEarth has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<kanzure>
and then things like: if you pass around a validity challenge (asking for proof of validity, like the merkle path and contents), how do you guarantee that the actual operator had a chance to see the message and reply? otherwise you're just doing another kind of DOS.
<kanzure>
DoS, rather
<kanzure>
or the shorter version: if a miner gets to choose which data to reveal, then they aren't going to reveal their transaction where they caused inflation until it's far too late for anyone to want to rollback anything
aguycalled has joined #bitcoin-wizards
alpalp has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<kanzure>
what was the problem with submarine inflation in hidden regions of large blocks? why not a rule to invalidate the second spend of the coins whenever it's discovered in the future?
<kanzure>
oh okay because you can partition the network/economy like that
<kanzure>
so yeah, bad.
alpalp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
handlex has joined #bitcoin-wizards
handlex has quit [Quit: handlex]
CubicEarth has joined #bitcoin-wizards
alpalp has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
q4 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
pedrovian has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
pedrovian has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Sick__ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Sick_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
kristofferR has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
JHistone has joined #bitcoin-wizards
JHistone has quit [Client Quit]
Sick_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Sick__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
JHistone has joined #bitcoin-wizards
JHistone has quit [Client Quit]
JHistone has joined #bitcoin-wizards
* nsh
wonders idly if anyone has experience with Selberg sieves
<nsh>
.wik Selberg sieve
<yoleaux>
"In mathematics, in the field of number theory, the Selberg sieve is a technique for estimating the size of "sifted sets" of positive integers which satisfy a set of conditions which are expressed by congruences. It was developed by Atle Selberg in the 1940s." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selberg_sieve
kristofferR has joined #bitcoin-wizards
d9b4bef9 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<nsh>
vague sense that it might be useful for proving lower bounds on ECC securities
<yoleaux>
Is this bad: "cohomology of non-compact unitary [...] can be leveraged to check [...] local-global compatibility at l=p for torsion classes" (@bascule)
<nsh>
(beyond my ken to have any idea whether this affects ECC over finite fields)
<stevenroose>
Satoshi's paper mentions "proof-of-work difficulty is determined by a moving average targeting an average number of blocks per hour". Does anyone recall why this was later changed to a two week window?
dnaleor has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<stevenroose>
I have the feeling that the two-week window makes hard forks a lot more dangerous than they would have been with a shorter window like 24h, or maybe 1h.
<gmaxwell>
stevenroose: it was never short, I think you're misreading the text.
<gmaxwell>
e.g. right now we have a moving average that targets 6 blocks an hour.
<stevenroose>
It just describes difficulty adjustments based on an average generation time, without suggesting any specific window size. You're right.
<stevenroose>
The guy in the gist interpreted it that way, though.
<gmaxwell>
shorter retargeting intervals increase vulnerablity to isolation/partitioning attacks.
<gmaxwell>
(and some altcoins have been attacked with these things)
<stevenroose>
The change from looking for the longest chain to looking for the chain with the most work, makes that more hard, right?
<stevenroose>
Aren't those kinds of attacks related to sybill attacks?
CubicEarth has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<stevenroose>
(I just interpreted the name, I never read about them..)
CubicEarth has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<gmaxwell>
e.g. you can carve off part of the network with an eclipse attack, then mine its difficulty back to realtime, and the users and stuff won't notice they're partitioned.
CubicEarth has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kenshi84 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Davasny has quit [Remote host closed the connection]