sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<sipa>
i took his first online course in 2011 or so
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<waxwing>
i'm currently reading toc.cryptobook.us (Boneh and Shoup, last updated september, not entirely finished) on nickler 's recommendation. or parts of it. good stuff.
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<PaulTroon>
looks good; I'll add that to my reading list.
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<wumpus>
waxwing: seems interesting, thanks
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<ruby32>
does grin have an IRC channel?
<kanzure>
their altcoin pump requires them to not use IRC, i think
<andytoshi>
yes, it's on irc.gitter.im
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<ruby32>
andytoshi: does gitter by default have an IRC interface for all of its chatrooms?
<sipa>
yes it does
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<sipa>
*PLING*
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<waxwing>
huh, bulletproofs are already mentioned in the wikipedia article on non-interactive zero knowledge proofs
<waxwing>
btw i've been struggling today to understand how you get zero knowledgeness with non-interactivity, since you can't fake transcripts when you hash the prover's commitment (i.e. random oracle model). feel free to ignore if too off-topic here :)
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<nsh>
waxwing, that's where the forking lemma comes into play in ways i can't even quite handwave yet
<andytoshi>
waxwing: in the ROM you can fake transcripts by programming the hash function to output whatever you want (and choosing this beforehand)
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<Alanius>
nsh: the forking lemma does not have to do with forging transcripts; it has to do with extracting the witness given black-box access to a successful prover (subject to: IF the successful prover is actually a forger (ie. no interaction with the witness) THEN the extractor gets to control the random oracle)
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<Alanius>
and the forking lemma is really quite simple: the extractor runs the prover and forks right after his first commitment; "forking" in this context means running two different executions with different random coins
<Alanius>
if the different random coins generate different challenges from the adversary, fine by me; or in the rom if the random coins generate different responses from the random oracle, also fine by me
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<Alanius>
the clue is that given a first message (commitment), and pair of distinct completions into valid transcripts should enable the extractor to compute the witness; this property is called special soundnes
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<Alanius>
any* pair
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<nsh>
thanks Alanius!
<Alanius>
no problem :)
<Alanius>
oh and: different challenges from the verifier* (not from the adversary)
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