sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<tromp> andytoshi, the musig paper mentions key-prefixing being needed in security proofs. does that apply to MW transactions as well?
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<andytoshi> you mean signing the key?
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<tromp> yes, including the public key in the signature challenge hash
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<dis> hello, i'm currently trying to understand SIDH sigs (PQ isogeny j-function moonmath). they construct a signature scheme out of DH using commited coinflips, but the way the actual 0/1 commitments are communicated eludes me
<dis> specifically this https://i.imgur.com/MLm7mE3.png
<dis> supposedly this isn't fiat-shamir, but some sort of other online to gain non-interactivity
<yoleaux> Cryptology ePrint Archive: Report 2017/186
<dis> intuitively this looks intriguing, as it vaguely looks like one could use this for CT value commitments (not so sure about the homogeny for values yet with SIDH)
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<dis> also, there's an actual implementation if that could help https://github.com/yhyoo93/isogenysignature
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<bsm1175321> I want to arithmetic on timelocks. What would be wrong with making sequence_no and lock_time available to scripts, so that arithmetic could be performed on them. Or, might there be another way to do effectively the same thing using OP_CHECKSEQUENCEVERIFY and OP_LOCKTIMEVERIFY
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<Chris_Stewart_5> bsm1175321: sequence number and locktime are available to scripts
<bsm1175321> Yaaay!
<Chris_Stewart_5> i guess specifically the 'txTo' and 'nIn' are all you need to be able to parse out locktime and sequence number
<bsm1175321> I mean as a variable, to be used in arithmetic
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<Chris_Stewart_5> so like saved onto the stack? that might be a little more difficult
<bsm1175321> Yes.
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<bsm1175321> Unless you can think of doing arithmetic with OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY and OP_CHECKSEQUENCEVERIFY
<bsm1175321> I see no way to do lock_time+"1 week" for instance
<Chris_Stewart_5> yeah, unless you had some sort of looping mechanism I don't see how to do that
<bsm1175321> Can anyone think of a reason why OP_LOCKTIME (which puts lock_time on the stack) would be bad?
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<bsm1175321> Equivalently OP_MEDIANTIMEPAST could be used to put median time past on the stack. Probably better...
<Chris_Stewart_5> bsm1175321: I guess if you are building the tx, why don't you just put it on the stack yourself?
<Chris_Stewart_5> ah, I guess it isn't consensus constrained it is equivalent though..
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<sipa> bsm1175321: that would break the property that guarantees that a valid transaction remains valid
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<sipa> bsm1175321: which means wallets now need conplex logic to determine how unlikely it is that a transaction they received will become invalidated
<sipa> making the locktike and nsequence of a tx(in) available on the stack doesn't have that risk
<sipa> but mediantimepast does... you could create a tx that can only be included if the mediantike is odd or so
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<andytoshi> tromp: i think MW is secure without it, but i don't know if multisignatures are .. just pub the pubkey in the hash
<andytoshi> there isn't really any downside
<andytoshi> and it makes reasoning about the sigs way simpler
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<andytoshi> if you're trying to get space savings by using pubkey recovery, please don't, this will slow down verification in IBD by like 10x
<andytoshi> allow noninteractive aggregation instead, it gets the same space savings without breaking batch validation (though it does make caching a bit more complicated)
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<PaulTroon> noninteractive aggregation? via BLS signatures or ?
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<PaulTroon> oh, I forgot you can do it with Schnorr too, just can't aggregate R values
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<tromp> thx andytoshi. i suppose hashing order of pubkey, pubnonce, and message doesn't matter?
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