sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<tobeey>
I'm surprised that grin will be unlimited supply
<tobeey>
won't there be a rush to create alts for it?
<tobeey>
obviously I'd like to contribute hashing power to support the real grin
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<tobeey>
are there Any oOOoooh... e'iz Ard ere?
<tobeey>
i know i have ahh appiness
<tobeey>
the grin is a pea
<tobeey>
me want to take many a p
<tobeey>
:|
<tobeey>
grin will make me happy
<tobeey>
:)
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<grzs>
yeah grin looks great :)
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<maaku>
tobeey: a fixed subsidy is indistinguishable from a fixed supply in the limit
<maaku>
economically it's not really any different than bitcoin in the long term
<belcher>
are they different in some other way? why choose one over the other
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<maaku>
i don't know. i don't think what grin is doing has value, so I'm the wrong person to ask why they are doing it
<wumpus>
apart from the practical consideration that, with an infinitely increasing supply, it needs to be able to handle arbitrarily large integer amounts
<sipa>
you don't necessarily need to support arbitrarily large values within one output
<sipa>
though having an inevitable exponential growth in utxos may also be undesirable
<wumpus>
it does need to be able to verify that sum(inputs) >= sum(outputs)
<sipa>
well, not in CT :)
<sipa>
or rather, that's implied
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<wumpus>
good point
<sipa>
but it still has practical limits
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<sipa>
the range proofs become larger if the supported ranges are largee
<sipa>
and you need to make sure the sum of amounts within one transaction doesn't exceed 2^256
<sipa>
(or whatever the curve order is)
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<maaku>
it would take 700 years for the perpetual subsidy of grin to overflow 64 bits in total issuance, and probably a million years before that is of actual concern to utxos
<sipa>
haha
<grzs>
this sounds like the beginning of the most awesome sci fi novel ever
<maaku>
not that it really matters, quantum computers will arrive way before then
<sipa>
"if only we had known 700 years ago"
<maaku>
grin makes a lot of weird choices anyway, including not supporting some of the fundamental features of mimblewimble like cut-through, block and blockchain aggregation, compact IBD, etc.
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<maaku>
I hope that we can have an actual mimblewimble implementation based on elements that interacts with bitcoin instead of re-inventing the square wheel :\
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