sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<maaku>
kanzure: probably depends on what you mean by fraud
<kanzure>
yeah i guess anything fraudulent is just invalid anyway..
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<stick_>
Does anyone have a definition of "permissionless" with regards to Bitcoin blockchain? I understand it as "everyone can access" and "everyone can mine" (theoretically). But to actually perform a Tx, you need a miner's "permission".
<andytoshi>
to the extent that's true it's a bug
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<stick_>
andytoshi: I meant that any miner can ignore your Tx if they want to, but they are incentivized to include it, given that fee is high enough. I'd call it a permissioned model, but with free market of service providers (miners).
<andytoshi>
right, i'm saying that they shouldn't even be able to distinguish your tx in any way except for its feerate
<kanzure>
i think it's better to just focus on the source code and look at how things work, rather than redefining other people's terms
<kanzure>
there are some proposals for how to mitigate transaction censorship (such as committed transactions) if you want to look into those details
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<Sojourner>
greets!
<kanzure>
be greeted
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<kanzure>
k
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<tachys>
What is the current state of atomic swaps, as described by Tier Nolan here:
<tachys>
Seems like one could make a decentralized exchange this way, but I haven't heard of any development/BIPS on it. Does anyone know why that is?
<belcher>
you still need an orderbook and a way of connecting people together
<belcher>
atomic swaps mean theres no counterparty risk but thats not really a problem with centralized exchanges that rely on their reputation who dont scam people anyway
<belcher>
something similar to atomic swaps could be used for privacy in coinswap, essentially a private atomic swap on the same blockchain
<kanzure>
i think an exchange would unlikely to be specified as a bip
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<contrapumpkin>
yeah, lots of decentralized exchanges exist that implement them
<contrapumpkin>
but not really BIPpy
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