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<micahjohnston>
vil: yay!
<vil>
micahjohnston: it was amazing
<micahjohnston>
for real
<vil>
now the new Daft Punk album just needs to come out
<micahjohnston>
yeah
<micahjohnston>
vil: have you listened to purity rihng?
<micahjohnston>
purity ring*
<vil>
no
<micahjohnston>
it's similarly crazy
<micahjohnston>
try lofticries
<vil>
in a bit, about to watch Swedish House Mafia
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<devyn>
sephr_: 100 MWh/yr, you mean?
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<sephr>
idk but i remember looking at my electricity bill and then looking at the average american household electricity usage
<sephr>
and mine being >10x that
<sephr>
emphasis >, not sure it could be 20x
<devyn>
haha
<devyn>
granted the average is probably pretty low
<sephr>
ooh i remember
<sephr>
i was thinking of monthly usage
<sephr>
and total was really really high
<sephr>
i need to check my electricity bill later
<devyn>
how much do you spend?
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<sephr>
less than elliottcable hopefully
<devyn>
haha, I'd assume so
<devyn>
oh yeah, elliottcable: how are you enjoying the weather :p
<sephr>
though possibly more since it is a family of 4
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<sephr>
each with 2 laptops and 1 desktop
<sephr>
and lots of rooms to heat
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<elliottcable>
okay, now hi
<elliottcable>
micahjohnston ⑊ what?
<micahjohnston>
elliottcable: lookee my tweeter
<micahjohnston>
vil: you too
<micahjohnston>
i put some screenshots
<elliottcable>
I saw!
<elliottcable>
that actually looks cool. Are you using a framework of some sort? It's impressive, for what it is.
<vil>
micahjohnston: whoa cool!
<micahjohnston>
wrote it in straight C++ with SFML
<micahjohnston>
which basically just abstracts things like drawing to the screen and playing sounds and keyboard input so they're cross-platform
<micahjohnston>
and the cross-platform was so seamless that it was developed on mac, windows, and linux at different points with no changes to the source code :p
<elliottcable>
word
<elliottcable>
got a name for the game yet?
<vil>
beautiful
<micahjohnston>
it's called Danger Ranger, somewhat ironically :p
<micahjohnston>
because it was 3AM and I basically hadn't slept for the past two days
<micahjohnston>
and my friend called the project that in visual studio, as a joke, and then it stuck
<vil>
that's the best kind of name
<micahjohnston>
:D
<vil>
I actually got as far as building a tile renderer for a similarly-styled game a while ago: http://cl.ly/No3v
<vil>
but that's it
<vil>
no actual game involved yet :D
<micahjohnston>
vil: haha that looks disturbingly similar :p
<micahjohnston>
neato
<micahjohnston>
what's that written in?
<vil>
Java, unfortunately
<vil>
needed the practice before school started
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<vil>
the levels are generated from text files, which is probably a terrible idea: http://cl.ly/NnQ3
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<micahjohnston>
oh ok
<elliottcable>
dnyy_!
<micahjohnston>
I wrote my own map editor in HTML/JS/canvas in a couple days
<micahjohnston>
and exported to JSON
<vil>
nice
<micahjohnston>
and imported that with C++
<vil>
haha
<micahjohnston>
so the map editor is kinda ghetto
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<micahjohnston>
but I did make undo/redo
<micahjohnston>
proud of that
<micahjohnston>
and rectangles
<vil>
very nice
<elliottcable>
fuck
<micahjohnston>
and the game is like, a fully 3D world
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<vil>
layer based?
<micahjohnston>
like you can go up and down layers and fall down off ledges and stuff
<vil>
cool
<micahjohnston>
yeah
<micahjohnston>
so the map editor has buttons for going up and down
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<micahjohnston>
text files like that ain't bad
<micahjohnston>
any kind of data-driven thing for maps is nice
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<vil>
I liked it because it let me prototype levels in a hurry
<vil>
so I could check if everything was rendereing correctly
<vil>
*rendering
<vil>
you can hit `r` in-game at the moment to reload the level
<vil>
the tiles are actually a ¾ top view type thing
<vil>
16 wide and 24 high I think
<vil>
to get that looking down at an angle effect
<vil>
but it makes some stuff, like the doors, tricky
<elliottcable>
dnyy!
<vil>
and they draw overlapped
<micahjohnston>
hey mine are 16 by 24
<elliottcable>
I did a really, really cool dynamic-loader thing with SVG maps in the browser, once
* vil
high-fives micahjohnston
<elliottcable>
I forget the specifics, but it was pretty fucking sick
<micahjohnston>
so like a flat tile is 16*12
<micahjohnston>
you walk more slowly north/south than east/west
<vil>
hmm, interesting
<vil>
I hadn't thought to do that
<vil>
actually
<micahjohnston>
yeah I did it because it looked like you were walking too quickly north/south
<vil>
I can't even remember how I got the floor to render properly
<micahjohnston>
now it looks really natural
<micahjohnston>
the depth sorting algorithm was a bitch though
<vil>
I bet
<vil>
mine just renders from front to back, but it's a fixed-size map and non-scrolling
* elliottcable
sighs
<vil>
er, back to front
<micahjohnston>
elliottcable: like tile maps like this?
<vil>
Pokémon style!
<micahjohnston>
vil: sfml made adding scrolling practically one line of code
<vil>
holy crap
<elliottcable>
micahjohnston ⑊ yep
<vil>
elliottcable: is the code up anywhere? I'd love to look at it
<micahjohnston>
but not because they explicitly put in game view scrolling, it's just got a really flexible drawing/transform type of system
<vil>
micahjohnston: I suppose mine could scroll, actually, I think I was smart enough to use a double-buffer and everything
<vil>
never got that dar
<vil>
*far
<micahjohnston>
oh cool
<micahjohnston>
yeah I think double buffers are another thing sfml does for you :p
<vil>
I'll probably get back to it eventually
<vil>
the code for mine was stolen from Notch :D
<vil>
I was watching one of his livestreamed coding sessions at the time
<vil>
it was one of the ludum dare games, so it probably was
<vil>
because the one before that was that pseudo-3d dungeon crawler
<vil>
I love that Swedish House Mafia is using live drums for their set
<micahjohnston>
yeah I like when edm acts do that
<micahjohnston>
bonobo's is crazy
<micahjohnston>
it's like live clarinet and everything
<vil>
haven't seen him
<micahjohnston>
<3 bonobo
<purr>
Let it be known that micahjohnston hearts bonobo.
<micahjohnston>
he's so crazy
<vil>
Goldfish does that too I think
<micahjohnston>
oh i bet
<micahjohnston>
goldfish seem amazing live
<elliottcable>
fuck me sideways
<elliottcable>
I wish I knew how to enjoy live music.
<micahjohnston>
the sound is definitely worse than recorded music :p
<elliottcable>
so loud, so much annoying, so many people yelling,
<micahjohnston>
yeah
<elliottcable>
it hurts. and I can't enjoy it. don't know how to.
<micahjohnston>
well I don't like it sometimes
<micahjohnston>
I was up front for a show by The Used
<micahjohnston>
I got kicked in the face and was bleeding kinda bad
<micahjohnston>
after that my friend and I ditched the friends we went with and sat way further back :p
<vil>
I don't really like concerts at all
<micahjohnston>
but for instance, Explosions in the Sky
<vil>
but I do like the energy
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<micahjohnston>
they came, took their instruments, said "thanks for coming", then just played their music for a few hours straight
<vil>
nice
<micahjohnston>
and at the climaxes of their songs it was like a big gigantic wall of noise
<micahjohnston>
and then when they quieted down it was really peaceful
<micahjohnston>
and stuff
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<micahjohnston>
like, it was just way more intense than you can get with just speakers
<vil>
yeah
<micahjohnston>
and everybody there respected the music
<micahjohnston>
because it was explosions in the sky
<micahjohnston>
so no moshing or screaming or anything really
<micahjohnston>
so that was definitely one of the best shows I've been to
<micahjohnston>
another one of the best was mewithoutYou
<micahjohnston>
kind of indescribable
<micahjohnston>
they have a lot of energy
<micahjohnston>
but also just something about the mystical nature of their music I guess
<micahjohnston>
being in a room with it being played is just really cool
<micahjohnston>
and then for instance awolnation
<micahjohnston>
they were just like
<micahjohnston>
improvising
<micahjohnston>
jamming out between verses and stuff
<micahjohnston>
awesome musicianship
<micahjohnston>
you can only get that live
<micahjohnston>
elliottcable: so that's the kind of stuff I guess
<micahjohnston>
elliottcable: do you like orchestra concerts
<trolling>
my name is
<trolling>
trolling
<trolling>
and I hate babies
<vil>
I've never been to an EDM concert of any type
<micahjohnston>
me neither
<vil>
and only a couple of "normal" ones
<vil>
like, rock style
<vil>
they were meh
<vil>
hi trolling
<trolling>
hello vil
<vil>
trolling: why don't you tell us a bit more about how that makes you feel
<trolling>
truth be told
<trolling>
it is agonising
<trolling>
society insists that my thought upon looking at a baby
<trolling>
should be "isn't that cute"
<trolling>
rather than "i'm sure that's delicious"
<micahjohnston>
trolling: i hate babies too
<trolling>
the latter is frowned upon
<trolling>
and yet
<elliottcable>
trolling!
<trolling>
the meat is so tender
<elliottcable>
I wish you'd change your name back.
<elliottcable>
ugh, wall of noise
<elliottcable>
my ears are sensitive, and bad to boot, and hurt
<elliottcable>
can't handle clubsa nd it *really* sucks because I miss out on fun stuff because of that
<trolling>
you know who invented the wall of sound
<trolling>
phil spector
<vil>
elliottcable: I can't either
<vil>
my right ear starts fuzzing like a broken speaker
<trolling>
and he murdered his wife
<elliottcable>
trolling ⑊ I miss you >:
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<trolling>
I miss you too elliottcable!
<trolling>
even thought I've been here the whole time :3
<trolling>
you hold the same special place in my heart that whiskey does in my liver
<micahjohnston>
trolling: phil spector :p
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<micahjohnston>
sounds like phil spector's wall of sound is somewhat different than shoegaze/post-rock's though
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<vil>
I listen to post-rock every once in a while
<vil>
I need to be in a specific mood
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<trolling>
it's the origin
<elliottcable>
Dude, I'm as important to you as whisky!?
<elliottcable>
brb actually, I want some Glenfiddich 18
<micahjohnston>
trolling: through the jamc or something?
<trolling>
no I mean
<trolling>
if you represent music as a high-dimensional hyperplane
<trolling>
the position of the wall of sound is 0
<micahjohnston>
hahaha
<trolling>
well, â0
<trolling>
but let's not be picky
<micahjohnston>
haha
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<micahjohnston>
well if white noise can be considered wall of sound
<micahjohnston>
you could say that any direction you move away from the origin represents sculpting away some particular frequency
<trolling>
interesting
<trolling>
although
<trolling>
how would phase be represented within that system
<micahjohnston>
more dimensions!
<micahjohnston>
lol idk
<purr>
lol
<micahjohnston>
:p
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<elliottcable>
dnyy, you fuck
<dnyy>
elliottcable: wat
<micahjohnston>
dnyy: declarative statement
<micahjohnston>
dnyy fucks
<dnyy>
all da huneys
<elliottcable>
DNYY
<elliottcable>
WHAT IS UP
<elliottcable>
FUCKER
<dnyy>
about to do some lame-o work shit
<dnyy>
u?
<elliottcable>
sad that you don't talk to me anymore
<dnyy>
i forget this is here a good chunk of constantly ;_;
<elliottcable>
ಠ_ಠ
<elliottcable>
stop doing that
<dnyy>
haha, yes sir
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<micahjohnston>
elliottcable: tell me your strong opinion on how to make a website
<micahjohnston>
not a static one, one where people post things
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<dnyy>
drupal
<elliottcable>
Fat-client JavaScript, your choice on server-side language.
<elliottcable>
I suggest Node.js, simply so you can easily share code between the two things.
<elliottcable>
look into my ANAL project's approach. it's a PoC that, I feel, is the “only appropriate way” to be creating dynamic content in this HTML5, multi-device, social-sharing-obsessed era.
<elliottcable>
Fat-clint JavaScript and thin-Ruby app aren't a bad idea, either. Sinatra or similar is nice; or just roll your fucking own.
<elliottcable>
Not a big fan of frameworks, period.
<elliottcable>
Use the client for persistence wherever possible; use an appropriate K/V or Object database (redis, couch, are excellent. stay away from SQL.)
<micahjohnston>
why stay away from sql?
<Nuck>
Because SQL can suck a cock
<Aria>
SQL's just hard to prototype in. It's formalism-heavy.
<Aria>
(That said, SQL like Akiban plays nice. You can fetch rich models over a REST API!)
<elliottcable>
basically, what Aria said.
<elliottcable>
it's got its benefits. But it's just slow, heavy, ... no.
<Aria>
Not slow. But heavy to think about.
<micahjohnston>
all right
<Aria>
And lots of typing to get going.
<micahjohnston>
I guess I just like it because it's kind of shape-oriented
<micahjohnston>
I like the language itself
<Nuck>
My gripe with SQL is how clunky it makes many-to-many relations
<micahjohnston>
but yeah what nuck said too
<Aria>
Check out Akiban. It's a pleasant compromise. (It can remember table groups, pre-joining them.)
<Nuck>
The only possible solution is foreign keys in an array (yay Postgres), but I don't even know if that works
<Nuck>
Besides, of course, join tables
<Aria>
(And you can fetch them as JSON documents)
<Nuck>
Which need to die a painful death
<Nuck>
Frankly I'm not that impressed with Couch either, it's good for some things but not nearly as general-purpose as a relational store. The only NoSQL I've found that's as well-rounded as relational systems is Mongo, and well... It's mongo
<Nuck>
I don't think I need to explain that one
<elliottcable>
slow *to prototype* with
<elliottcable>
not slow to access
<Aria>
That.
<Aria>
Nuck: Riak?
<elliottcable>
Mongo is nice
<elliottcable>
Couch is easy.
<elliottcable>
Riak, stay away.
<elliottcable>
Redis, USE ALL OF THE TIME WHEEEE <3
<Aria>
Yeah?
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<elliottcable>
Redis is the UNIX of database-like software.
<elliottcable>
shut up notalexgordon_
<Aria>
Yeah. Use redis for all the "Here, hold this for a while!" operations.
<Aria>
Which are surprisingly many in web apps.
<elliottcable>
yep!
<Nuck>
I adore Redis, but it's got a number of bugs
<Nuck>
Well, lackings
<Aria>
Yes it does. It's not a database. It just happens to be good at holding data anyway.
<Nuck>
Aria: I've heard bad things about Riak
<Aria>
Huh. I've not. I've just shied away because Erlang.
<Aria>
Same with Couch.
<elliottcable>
I said database-like things
<micahjohnston>
i hate unix so would i hate redis
<elliottcable>
Aria ⑊ Erlang is a reason to shy away?
* elliottcable
eyebrow
<Nuck>
Of course, there's a lot of bad things said about Mongo too, but those dragons are mostly tameable. I'm looking at switching to Mongoid for my current Rails project, for the better many-to-many support.
<Aria>
Well, my experience with Erlang is ejabberd, and crashiness with wacky erlang objects as the only error report.
<Nuck>
Honestly, Couch is fucking stable and barely Erlang-ey
<micahjohnston>
I hate how erlang has made people think that imperative communicating sequential processes fit under the label of functional programming
<micahjohnston>
but it ain't bad
<Nuck>
They hide their Erlang stripes very well, under layers of fancy web admin panels and JS engines
<Nuck>
Actually, isn't couch moving to V8 soon?
<elliottcable>
aw, micahjohnston, you didn't use my invite to sign up
<elliottcable>
no buck for meeeee
<micahjohnston>
aw I thought I did
<micahjohnston>
it won't let me log in with facebook
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<micahjohnston>
ok got it
<micahjohnston>
i'm rrrrich!
<micahjohnston>
:D
<elliottcable>
<3
<micahjohnston>
it won't recognize my 4 digits of ssn
<micahjohnston>
or whatnot
<micahjohnston>
where can i use venmo bux
<elliottcable>
lol
<purr>
lol
<elliottcable>
you can withdraw them to your bank account.
<elliottcable>
it's real-life money.
<micahjohnston>
when i finally get a bank account I will do that :p
<micahjohnston>
parents would freak out about Strangers on the Internet™
<micahjohnston>
whitequark: but yeah, want to help me make tempus?
<whitequark>
well, define "help" :)
<micahjohnston>
participate in extensive design discussions over irc? contribute code? :p
<whitequark>
yes. no.
<micahjohnston>
all right
<micahjohnston>
:p
<micahjohnston>
cool
<whitequark>
I've tons of my own code to write...
<micahjohnston>
yeah all right
<micahjohnston>
:p
<micahjohnston>
so there are some undecided things about the temporal semantics
<micahjohnston>
for instance, what exact mechanisms are there for carrying state forward through time?
<micahjohnston>
I like the idea of state-machine-esque event-switching type of stuff
<micahjohnston>
and also integrals and derivatives for numbers
<micahjohnston>
but I'm not sure how to formalize that
<micahjohnston>
for instance, some implementations model numbers as temporally continuous
<whitequark>
hrm
<micahjohnston>
was thinking of just giving up on that utopia, making every data type discrete, including numbers, and just having transition functions
<micahjohnston>
and then if you have a time signal you can do things like derivatives and integrals nicely
<whitequark>
I like that
<whitequark>
it exposes enough levers to micromanage it if you need
<micahjohnston>
yeah
<micahjohnston>
you can write your own integral that way
<micahjohnston>
which I like
<micahjohnston>
a lot of FRP libraries treat integral as primitivde
<micahjohnston>
primitive
<micahjohnston>
but the question of eager vs. lazy is still not really settled
<micahjohnston>
hey if time is just another signal then time is discrete too
<whitequark>
of course it is
<micahjohnston>
and the time of an event switch is only meaningful in terms of its relative ordering with other signals
<micahjohnston>
I like that a lot
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<whitequark>
yepp. it reflects how von neumann machines work.