<devyn>
someone said magic the gathering or something, but really I was just pointing out the writing in bacteria
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
devyn: the comments on that thread were interesting.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
anybody awake on Valentine's Night, other than me?
* devyn
<devyn>
kinda
<devyn>
barely
<whitequark>
me
<whitequark>
because it's not night
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: that's not electronics
<whitequark>
that's chemistry
<devyn>
lol
<purr>
lol
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<whitequark>
ha, kill la kill just gets better with every episode
<whitequark>
"You have no qualms about literally stabbing your mother in the back?" "Of course not!"
<whitequark>
so. much. dramatic. monologue.
<whitequark>
I don't think I have *ever* seen so much dramatic monologue.
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<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: there's a hard glass ceiling on how good programmer experience can get if you insist on a minimum feedback turnaround time of save txt editor, type terminal command
<glowcoil>
alexgordon: was i doing something similar to that?
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: and i think it's dumb to dogmatically value those things
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<whitequark>
glowcoil: I think those two things are irrelevant
<whitequark>
what is relevant is "restart your running process"
<whitequark>
perhaps this is another reason *nix is built around cli
<glowcoil>
whitequark: how are they irrelevant? it seems that sticking with text editors and command line stuff has really disincentivized live programming
<glowcoil>
like also the complete lack of awareness/caring about ux on the part of people who design programmer tools means that most programs written to write code suck
<whitequark>
well. command line stuff is irrelevant. you can do it with just ^S. examples: livereload extension for sublime, ruby's guard, I'm sure there are more
<whitequark>
so you don't need to manually type commands and stuff, you can make it run tests or reappear in browser or other things automatically without much work right now
<whitequark>
but, where that approach fails is where you need to do something more complex than "re-run this thing"
<whitequark>
because almost every process relevant to developers is a batch one
<whitequark>
it's not a consequence of shitty editors, it's simply because batch processes are much much simpler to implement
<whitequark>
glowcoil: ^
<whitequark>
as per text editors, well, I'll repeat: I'm still waiting for a non-text-based editor that is not a cute toy
<whitequark>
that nodejs flowchart thing, yeah. explored decades ago in industrial control systems in development environments "suited for engineers who don't know how to code"
<whitequark>
during those decades it was firmly established that all flowchart things quickly devolve into unreadable and unmaintainable mess
<whitequark>
that clojure on ipad thing seems to basically be just an alternative input method, not a true paradigm change
<whitequark>
it's hilarious to watch people trying to program on tablets, but if they want--*shrug* good for them. still it is not radically different.
<purr>
¯\(º_o)/¯
<whitequark>
so far I've seen one step in right direction: AST-aware diff
<alexgordon>
yeah who codes on a tablet o_O
<whitequark>
we'll definitely see more tablet coding things because tablets >>> PC by quantity
<alexgordon>
it seems to be one of those things that people get inordinately excited about because they feel that *should* be the future
<alexgordon>
but actually, it is intrinsically sucky
<whitequark>
so there's demand for that and we'd better figure out the best way to code if constrain by tablet
<whitequark>
well, "worse is better"
<whitequark>
it worked in past, it will work this time
<alexgordon>
tablet screens are too small for coding, that's the main problem
<whitequark>
ikr!
<alexgordon>
coding on a big MS surface thing would be OK
<whitequark>
I'm just sayin': there's a shitton of people wanting to code on tablets. there will be a shitton of people coding on tablets.
<whitequark>
whether you like it or not
<whitequark>
think of developing countries: tablets are absurdly cheap. PCs are not.
<whitequark>
you can get a decent tablet for <$50. perhaps <$30.
<alexgordon>
there's lots of people fucking in australia, there'll be a lot of new australians... but I try not to think about it
<whitequark>
lol how is that relevant
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
just saying... I'm not sure I care :P