<crc>
veltas: Forth2012 doesn't list a minimum number of block buffers
<rdrop-exit>
good morning Forthwrights c[]
<rdrop-exit>
Less than 2 doesn't really make sense
<rdrop-exit>
If you're on a modern PC+OS you don't really need any block buffers
<rdrop-exit>
But on small systems, you'll want at least two block buffers I imagine
<rdrop-exit>
hi crc
<crc>
hi rdrop-exit
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<tp>
g'day Fellow Forthers
<rdrop-exit>
g'day tp
<tp>
heyya rdrop-exit !
<rdrop-exit>
our lockdown has been extended to May 15
<tp>
no real surprise there ?
<tp>
it's still all a bit unknown territory
<rdrop-exit>
right
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<rdrop-exit>
my mother's 88, lives alone, and is not tech savy
<tp>
is she in the USA ?
<rdrop-exit>
France
<tp>
oh dear
<rdrop-exit>
turning 89 next month
<tp>
it suskd to be old and alone atm
<rdrop-exit>
sure does
<tp>
what some people do is set up a tablet with video etc and post it to their loved oldies
<tp>
a tablet with 3g capability
<tp>
and tablets are very easy to use
<tp>
wow 89, well she probably has hardy genetics
<rdrop-exit>
we gave her a tablet, but she can't get it to work anymore
<tp>
give her another one!
<rdrop-exit>
I think it has to do with her internet connection
<tp>
next time set up a reverse ssh server
<tp>
and youll tell when shes connected, maybe even do some remote admin, upload pics etc
<tp>
the elderly and women are hardest hit during this pandemic
<rdrop-exit>
My wife was supposed to travel to Europe this month, and would have dropped in on her and delt with it, but then the pandemic happened
<rdrop-exit>
* dealt
<rdrop-exit>
Going through my old books, I'm amazed at some of the stuff I still have
<rdrop-exit>
"An Introduction to APL for the IBM PC & XT"
<rdrop-exit>
"Turbo Prolog"
<rdrop-exit>
"Porgrammer's Guide to the EGA and VGA Cards"
<rdrop-exit>
"Turbo Assembler"
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<rdrop-exit>
"Decision Tables in Software Engineering"
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<rdrop-exit>
"RS-232 Made Easy"
<rdrop-exit>
"The IBM PC Connection"
<tp>
"a cavemans introduction to Quick Basic"
<rdrop-exit>
:))
<tp>
that would be the one I bought
<tp>
"Authorities are investigating a potential coronavirus cluster at a nursing home in the Blue Mountains, west of Sydney."
<tp>
Coronavirus comes in "clusters" now ??
<tp>
I can see it, youre out walking one evening with your wife when she screams and points up at a tree where she can see a Coronavirus Cluster growing on a limb
<tp>
gahh, Internet scammers must be making a fortune these days
<tp>
they will view the Coronavirus as a goldmine
<phadthai>
yeah
<phadthai>
miracle mineral supplement
<phadthai>
ayurveda urine medicine
<tp>
australia gives a estimated 400 million $ to Internet scammers each year
<phadthai>
next, temporary cryogenics to freeze you with the virus then thaw?
<phadthai>
heh
<phadthai>
a bit macabre I guess
<tp>
yep, "200 year old secret bulgarian Yak ear recipe proven to immunise against coronavirus"
<tp>
as long as your frozen corpiscle doesnt have to spend eternity in a canister next to Walt Disney
<phadthai>
:)
<tp>
26/04/2020|5min
<tp>
Panic buying has contributed to the biggest month rise in retail sales on record according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics.
<rdrop-exit>
Found some good stuff at the bottom of this box:
<rdrop-exit>
"Design and Validation of Computer Protocols"
<phadthai>
Or to what remains of Colonel Sanders (at least in french, with old franchises that used to be named "Colonel Sanders" rather than KFC, a common expression was "to eat some Sanders", so some kids imagined a long frozen Sanders who was so fat that they're still some left to sell)
<tp>
phadthai, hehe
<rdrop-exit>
"Writing Interactive Compilers and Interpreters"
<phadthai>
s/they're/there's/
<tp>
rdrop-exit, I bet the silverfish eating those old books are highly IT educated now
<rdrop-exit>
I store the old stuff in plastic bins, so far no vermin
<tp>
just endless mold ?
<rdrop-exit>
Some yellowing on the ones printed on high acid content paper
<tp>
oh yeah
<phadthai>
err sorry the expression was actually "to eat some colonel", but the result is the same heh
<rdrop-exit>
"An interactive compiler is one where the user communicates directly with the computer both when he is typing hi program and when he is running it. The communications has all the immediacy of human conversation"
<tabemann>
hey guys
<tp>
hey tabemann
<rdrop-exit>
hi tabemann
<phadthai>
hello
<rdrop-exit>
"you should always design your interactive compiler to be incremental."
<rdrop-exit>
Cool book from 1979
<phadthai>
nice... in a way, at the epoch, it was serious business too, mil and space
<phadthai>
and central databases
<phadthai>
precious timesharing seconds
<rdrop-exit>
"The ultimate in internal program conciseness is not, however, the machine code right at the end of the slide. It is instead, an 'ideal machine code' for running the source language. The ideal machine code has just the operations the source language needs, and these are encoded in the most concise way -- the more frequently used needing fewer bits than the less frequently used."
<rdrop-exit>
"Make sure your internal language is suitable for incremental editing."
<tabemann>
that reminds me of how hashforth supports far denser code than zeptoforth
<tabemann>
because zeptoforth compiled calls can often be 10 bytes in size, while hashforth compiled calls can be 1 to 2 bytes
<rdrop-exit>
reminds me of Chuck's Huffman encoded stuff
<tabemann>
of course zeptoforth compiled code can be made more efficient than that through inlining
<tabemann>
and even if inlining doesn't make it smaller it can still make it faster
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<rdrop-exit>
"We call the two machines the 'compiling machine' and the 'object machine'. If these two machines are coupled together in a smooth network it need not be apparent to the user that two separate machines are involved".
<rdrop-exit>
(i.e. interactive cross-compilation)
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<rdrop-exit>
"The best way to conquer the virgin machine [...] The whole task can be simplified if the VIRGINL compiler is itself written in VIRGINL, This is a classic and intellectually pleasing exercise called 'bootstrapping'. It was first popularized by NELLIAC (Halstead, 1962)"
<rdrop-exit>
Ok, this book is going on my reread pile :)
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<tp>
rdrop-exit, does it detail how to run and lag the steam pipes from the boiler to the Eniac building ?
<rdrop-exit>
Check it out, he also talks about JIT years before the term existed, he calls it "Dynamic Compiling"
<rdrop-exit>
"When the program is run, as each internal statement is executed for the first time, it is translated into the lower-level language, which we assume is machine-code."
<rdrop-exit>
His section on micro-programming and interpreters, makes me think of the current trend to "reconfigurable computing" with FPGAs.
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<rdrop-exit>
"Such machines open up a fascinating possiblity for the compiler writer. He can design an ideal internal language, and then microprogram his computer to execute this internal language. The microprogram would be brought into play whenever it was desired to run a user's program. The 'ideal' internal language could be ideal for ease of translation (and perhaps re-creation), ideal for speed of execution,
<rdrop-exit>
ideal for conciseness, or perhaps some combination of these."
<rdrop-exit>
So much of IT today is coming up with new buzzwords for old ideas
<phadthai>
yeah even more modern concepts are rebranded over and over by startups
<phadthai>
also hard to not reinvent an already patented thing
<rdrop-exit>
right
<rdrop-exit>
There's very little that's actually novel, usually the economic tradeoffs change and old forgotten techniques become relevant again
<rdrop-exit>
with a completely new buzzword
<MrMobius>
someone was talking about putting an FPGA on PC motherboards so you could reconfigure it per program to get better performance
<rdrop-exit>
Intel is putting an x86 and FPGA on the same chip with high speed link between them
<rdrop-exit>
Forget what they called it
<MrMobius>
neat
<MrMobius>
someone on the amp hour podcast was talking about the FPGAs with an ARM A9 built in. sounds amazing
<MrMobius>
some of those cost $1,000+ so the guest bought one on ebay someone had desoldered and reballed and it actually worked
<rdrop-exit>
The combination of general purpose CPUS with FPGAs is ideal
<MrMobius>
bought for like $80
<MrMobius>
yep. seems like you have to put some kind of softcore on there anyway for a lot of things
<rdrop-exit>
The simple administrative stuff can be done on the general purpose CPU, and the high performance inner loop stuff on the FPGA
<rdrop-exit>
Same concept as with an OS, you have your shell for admin stuff, and your compiled programs
<MrMobius>
makes you wonder what high performance stuff you cant do with the A9 though :P
<rdrop-exit>
reminds me of a funny quote
<rdrop-exit>
"Software? Software? There isn't any software! Only different internal states of hardware.
<rdrop-exit>
It's all hardware! It's a shame programmers don't grok that better."
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<tp>
LOL
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<merkc0>
tons of libs , I liked the examples I saw in it
<veltas>
Also they're on version 4.20 duuuuuuude
<veltas>
Oooh SPF is a CAPITAL Forth
<merkc0>
by default but you can change that
<merkc0>
to case insensitive
* tp
is a primitive
<veltas>
I'm definitely going to be insensitive by default
<tp>
rdrop-exit, I'm saved! my bottle of Kahlua Coffee Liqueur was just delivered :)
<rdrop-exit>
fiesta time!
<veltas>
My disco came days ago and now my fiance is making me wait to my birthday to open it, sad!
<tp>
veltas, 'GOING to be insensitive' ????
<veltas>
tp: Yes there's no word lookup yet
<tp>
eww, thats a cruel display of wahmen power!
<veltas>
I'm doing input first
<rdrop-exit>
I prefer case sensitive
<rdrop-exit>
although I use lowercase for almost everything
<veltas>
Well maybe I can add an option, would be trivial
<tp>
rdrop-exit, I'm lowercase addicted
* tp
hates icons on screens and mixed case in programs
* tp
is a member of the lowercase
<rdrop-exit>
you mean lower-caste
* veltas
looks around with sweat on his forehead
<tp>
heheh
<tp>
rdrop-exit, yeah, but I figured that "lowercase" was close enuf and would be punny
<veltas>
What do you mean "icons on screens" by the way?
<tp>
veltas, any icons on a window manager
<veltas>
So you didn't like Windows 3 that much then?
<veltas>
Windows 95 would have been a visual improvement for you?
<tp>
Ive used IceWM with no icons for at least the last 20 years now
<tp>
veltas, I actually abhor windows
<veltas>
I do actually think Windows 95 has a good window manager. It's a tiling hybrid window manager too, technically
<tp>
and with good reason
<veltas>
There is an interesting trend with tech tp, and I don't think this just applies to software but it's very relevant here
<rdrop-exit>
case sensitive makes most sense to me, the name of a word is whatever you typed in when you defined it
<veltas>
Where in order to reach more people each generation of software will reinvent how it's displayed and interacted with, in different ways, but lose control and functionality
<veltas>
And now we have a situation where there are some people doing everything from the terminal on a good old *NIX, and some people most of their work in windows and getting good productivity still, and then some people who basically need to do everything in a web interface
<veltas>
And then people that need tablets for everything
<veltas>
And then people that only do anything on their phones
<tp>
using windows makes ne feel like I'm rushing a critically sick person to hospital thru 200 miles of narrow mountainous roads in a 1972 Ford Mustang that has never been serviced. It has shot brakes, a clapped out engine and suspension and leaks oil and water.
<tp>
unix gives me a Audi quattro exactly like mine that feels like the tyres are literally glued to the road
<veltas>
I have to use it at work, and so therefore I spend a lot of my time in a fullscreen Linux VM pretending the outside world doesn't exist ;-)
<tp>
veltas, to those that only use Windows, Windows is well Windows, to a Unix user, being forced to use Windows isnt easy
<veltas>
Oh tp yesterday do you know what I did with my forth?
<tp>
I have the greatest of sympathy for such people
<tp>
no ?
<veltas>
Thanks tp it is a day by day
<veltas>
I separated my search dictionary from my code/parameter dictionary
<rdrop-exit>
i.e. separated headers
<veltas>
Which means right now, if I like a game or something I write in my forth, and don't need interpreting anymore, I can leave out the search dictionary entirely
<rdrop-exit>
i.e. beheading
<veltas>
Bye-bye all symbols and chains, all that's left is code and data, and we have a much smaller binary footprint for deploying
<rdrop-exit>
never heard of :r and r; that must be specific to your Forth
<veltas>
He just wrote them
<rdrop-exit>
oh
<veltas>
rdrop-exit do you have an opinion on me separating my headers?
<rdrop-exit>
it's a good technique, usually goes by the name of "separated headers"
<rdrop-exit>
I prefer to just keep my headers on another machine
<rdrop-exit>
but as you know, my preference is for tethered Forth setups
<veltas>
Yes, you and tp right?
<rdrop-exit>
he's probably partaking of his Kahlua atm
<veltas>
My dad owned an MG Roadster a few years ago for the sake of it, and I admired that car a lot. I think I'd like to own an older car one day just as a learning exercise, a bit like using an old computer taught me stuff about computers.
<rdrop-exit>
My father was into cars, boats, and motorcycles, he was a genious mechanic and restorer.
<veltas>
I barely know anything about cars or their maintenance, I think I would make Karen from Facebook look like a jaded mechanic.
<veltas>
For me, cars really are a tool. They get me from A to B. I think they *could* be interesting to me, but right now they are not.
<rdrop-exit>
I'd be incapable of a proper oil change, and I haven't driven in about 25 years.
<veltas>
I think I could change my oil, I might need to actually given I still need to drive and it's been over a year since it was done
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<tp>
bak. apologies had a phonecall
<veltas>
Why does my black power supply with corrugated edges that's clearly meant to passively cool itself get so hot when I leave it wrapped up in my bed duvet geez
<veltas>
Clearly this thing needs an active cooling system
<jackdaniel>
I've applied this strategy with a great success: passive cooling works best when you plug the device power off
<tp>
veltas, they all do
<tp>
if something has a heat sink but no fan, thats because it expects a fan somewhere else
<veltas>
It's like a laptop power brick
<veltas>
AC adaptor
<veltas>
I think it really was hoping I would kindly not leave it wrapped up in my bed duvet
<rdrop-exit>
I find a hamster wheel works best.
<tp>
good way to start a fire, get electrocuted
<jackdaniel>
matches are classic, nothing beats classic
<veltas>
How do you get electrocuted with a match?
<veltas>
You can start a fire, sure
<tp>
veltas, actually Im a big fan of on chip forths as well
<veltas>
jackdaniel never thinks that far, as soon as the fire is lit he's happy and goes home
<tp>
lol
<jackdaniel>
I thought that we talk about firing the home, don't make me walk when I don't have to
<tp>
I do all my vehicle work myself, I learnt mechanics watching my dad
<tp>
my car is a 1994 audi quatro, permanent 4wd sedan with 'torsen differentials', 2.8l V6, 6 speed manual, rated at 140 mph
<tp>
probably get there too, ... eventually ;-)
<veltas>
I turn to leave with jackdaniel and he says to me "no, they'll expect one of us in the wreckage, brother"
<veltas>
140mph at terminal air velocity
<tp>
veltas, Im waiting for tabemann to write a cortex-m0 tethered Forth
<tp>
veltas, hahah, no, horizontal on the road
<tp>
Ive done that speed a few times, it's not that fast
<veltas>
'horizontal' on a magic road
<tp>
170 mph is faster than Id like to go
<veltas>
News was freaking out about someone driving about 140mph recently on the M4
<veltas>
Or M40 or something
<tp>
i once road a motorbike that had been officially timed at 170 mph, scariest ride of my life, and nearly the last ride of my life
<tp>
news freaks out about anything...
<tp>
there are only 3 rules to riding at 140 mph (I have found)
<tp>
1) dont hit anything
<tp>
2) dont brake suddenly
<tp>
3) dont roll of the throttle quickly
<tp>
any of those are likely to hurt you very badly
<tp>
hey, it doesnt run forth, but I just saw this advert, I paid $130 for mine and it's simply the best watch Ive ever owned
<rdrop-exit>
It's good you mentioned it, I should try to find it and give it to one the kids, they might get a kick out of it
<tp>
they may need it in a couple of years!
<rdrop-exit>
:))
<rdrop-exit>
getting summoned for dinner, catch you later, stay healthy
<tp>
cya
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<merkc0>
BYE
<merkc0>
BYE
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<merkc0>
how to define a word ::: which works exactly like : but adds an extra functionality at the beginning of every word it compiles ::: myword 1 1 + . ; myword \ should print "Hello" and 2
<veltas>
merkc0: Maybe something like ... : ::: : [ S" Hello" SWAP LITERAL LITERAL POSTPONE TYPE ] ;
<veltas>
SLITERAL instead of SWAP LITERAL LITERAL
<merkc0>
::: myw 1 1 + . ;
<merkc0>
^ 8 ERROR_NOT_ENOUGH_MEMORY
<merkc0>
ok this worked:
<merkc0>
: ::: :
<merkc0>
S" Hello" POSTPONE SLITERAL
<merkc0>
POSTPONE TYPE ;
<merkc0>
::: myw 1 1 + . ;
<merkc0>
thank you
<veltas>
Sometimes, merkc0, I almost think you need to sit down and try and understand compiler/interpreter state and the words for manipulating it
<veltas>
In the nicest possible way I have barely touched this stuff and yet I seem to be doing all the thinking, it's like I'm getting all the learning benefit from your exercises
<veltas>
But I do appreciate the exercises ;)
<veltas>
Because I am new to this
<merkc0>
cool, actually I asked questions only after first trying it; I'm trying something more complicated here, couldn't figure it out , 'been messing with the bugs for almost 5 hours
<merkc0>
your fresh mind certainly helps me a lot in such a situation
<veltas>
Okay that's good to know
<merkc0>
:)
<veltas>
merkc0: Do you know why my incorrect version caused an ERROR_NOT_ENOUGH_MEMORY?
<veltas>
I'm just trying to think that through
<veltas>
I see why your program is correct
<veltas>
And I know why mine is wrong
<veltas>
But I can't figure out how the OOM is caused
<merkc0>
that error appeared when I called myw
<merkc0>
I copy pasted what I saw in the console, but I remember once it appeared only after executing myw
<veltas>
Not when you defined it?
<veltas>
Interesting
<merkc0>
and after changing your word a little , becus it complained about the POSTPONE inside [ ]
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<merkc0>
wb
<rdrop-exit>
hi merkc0 c[]
<veltas>
Does anyone else find it a bit of an unnecessary detail that old forths would keep the pad just beyond HERE at all times?
<veltas>
Like why not just leave pad space in the dictionary at a fixed position?
<rdrop-exit>
save space
<veltas>
Does it?
<rdrop-exit>
yes, it's a temporary volatile usage of space
<rdrop-exit>
but personally I do as you say
<rdrop-exit>
althoug I usually don't even bother having a PAD
<rdrop-exit>
I did find it useful once to have a stack of PADS growing downwards
<rdrop-exit>
but usually I don't have or use PAD
<rdrop-exit>
it's a trivial thing to add if ever you need it, I wouldn't sweat it
<rdrop-exit>
Merkc0, I swa you hex input thingie, I would just define a hex editor instead
<rdrop-exit>
* saw (not saw)
<rdrop-exit>
(not swa)
<rdrop-exit>
arg
<merkc0>
can you show an example of such a hex editor
<merkc0>
which you would define?
<rdrop-exit>
No, it's not something that would work with a standard file-oriented Forth
<merkc0>
veltas: I have done that hex input ,in a way that doesn't uses a lot of LITERAL and C,
<rdrop-exit>
what's the ::: for?
<veltas>
merkc0: Good
<merkc0>
rdrop-exit: Instead of deifining that ::: I'l just override : , and make it work as the normal : but with an extra feature of tracking the RDEPTH
<merkc0>
I want to make a debugging facility
<merkc0>
that can print the return stack, in any word at any position
<merkc0>
rdrop-exit: which forth would then work, for the hex editor
<merkc0>
*print the relevant part of the return stack
<merkc0>
the relevant part being that where I put the data during the algorithms
<veltas>
Sounds like a good exercise
<rdrop-exit>
I see
<veltas>
I actually think the HEX,{ syntax we came up with is a nice way of entering a bunch of HEX values if you really need to do that, but I can't imagine a situation where that's actually how I'd write code
<veltas>
Because I don't think I'd have a bunch of hex
<veltas>
I think I'd name what it meant or something crazy like that. The programmer in me, I'm sure tp would say
<veltas>
I might call it C,HEX{ instead but it's obvious from almost all usage that it's bytes being entered
<veltas>
Maybe this is what rdrop-exit is saying? That you should just enter HEX into your binary and not edit it in source?
<veltas>
If you need raw binary added to the program
<merkc0>
you need 10 magical bytes from the binary, and you copy paste it from the hex/editor, into the sourcecode where you're doing a tool that expands some functionality of that binary
<rdrop-exit>
Not in the source, in the data
<rdrop-exit>
If your Forth has a built-in editor that you can point to any block sized chunk of its memory, you can just type in what you need directly, say by having the ALT key or some other key switch you to hex editing quasi-mode
<merkc0>
it's really nice to be able to combine forth-code + inline asm + raw hex bytes
<rdrop-exit>
Forth is interactive, you can from within your Forth edit parts of its data directly (very carefully of course)
<merkc0>
sounds interesting
<merkc0>
I'd like to play with such a forth editor, if you know any
<rdrop-exit>
In my next Forth, I'll be using a 16x16 Font so that I can switch from an ASCII view to a Hex view by holding down a key, and switch back by releasing the key
<rdrop-exit>
An ASCII 16x16 character occupies the same space as two 8x16 hex characters
<merkc0>
cool;
<rdrop-exit>
press ALT (or something, haven't decided which key yet) and you see a screenfull of hex, release ALT and you see a screenfull of ASCII
<rdrop-exit>
Even in ASCII mode any non-glyph character (except space) would display as hex
<rdrop-exit>
same thing with editing, press ALT and your editing hex
<merkc0>
nice
<rdrop-exit>
the editor displays a 1k of the Forth RAM
<merkc0>
can a word be tested that it printed the right string ? or only stack results can be tested
<veltas>
merkc0: It depends, write the results to a file for a forth running in an OS, or redefine your EMIT or something to record results if not possible
<merkc0>
BYE
<merkc0>
BYE
<merkc0>
veltas: okay
* crc
has no real experience with this testing framework, but afaik it checks stack results, not output
<veltas>
I have no doubt that almost every forth system out there has some way of redirecting displayed output
<veltas>
But the standard does not go this far, as far as I know, so it's not possible to have standard tests for it
<veltas>
Doesn't stop you from writing your own test for this
<crc>
yes. but it's outside the scope of this particular testing framework as it wouldn't be portable across standard systems
<veltas>
My forth does not know anything about your EMIT'd content, it goes to the screen buffer. You could try and read back what's on the screen buffer though lol
<veltas>
No doubt if I carry on to conclusion there would be support for the different output devices, like into a block buffer or over a port to the printerer
<crc>
My equivalent to emit is a generic output that can be changed to capture output
<crc>
I've used this to send output to paste in services or to write outputs to files
<veltas>
Any serious forth system needs this, it's our equivelent of redirecting stdout
<veltas>
Like anything we have to provide that flexibility ourselves (unless it's a C forth)
<veltas>
The only 'flexible' thing I've bothered setting so far is my interrupt handler, which uses whatever XT is stored in 'INT
<veltas>
Because god help my forth if you can't add stuff to the interrupt handler, default behaviour is to run INT , so a good replacement would run INT and then whatever extra stuff, but could also replace it.
<veltas>
Going on a walk :-D
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<veltas>
And today's quiz, when is *suspending* faster than a spinlock?
<tp>
does a lemming hanglide ?
<veltas>
Is that the next quiz question?
<tp>
yeah
* tp
is so happy to have solved his md2html problem, thank the ghods for OSS
<veltas>
Yeah right?
<tp>
i now feel that I have a modern, automated, IDE irrelevant, fully automated Forth project release tarball system
<tp>
usable by non Forth users to expert Forth users
<veltas>
I have been moaned at today for not using CI services on github
<veltas>
Or preached at or something
<tp>
of course as I learn more my opinion changes :)
<tp>
hows this for the release contents >
<veltas>
I am the same, weirdly
<tp>
~/mecrisp-stellaris/f0-touch/imageclones% tree
<tp>
.
<tp>
├── f0-touch.879d8c3eb7.README.html
<tp>
├── f0-touch.879d8c3eb7.bin
<tp>
├── f0-touch.879d8c3eb7.DELETE.sh
<tp>
├── f0-touch.879d8c3eb7.flashme
<tp>
├── f0-touch.879d8c3eb7.source+.fs
<tp>
├── f0-touch.879d8c3eb7.source-.fs
<tp>
├── f0-touch.879d8c3eb7.words4.txt
<tp>
thats the contents of my releases mow
<tp>
a fully functional binary, the full source with and without comments
<tp>
a presentable html readme of my markdown document
<tp>
and a full wordlist
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<tp>
this is the sum of my embedded Forth progress since 2014
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<veltas>
Have you considered.... having source and source+comments as your names?
<veltas>
Because + and - make no sense on their own
<tp>
"fo-touch" is the cortex-m type and project name. "879d8c3eb7" id the SCM hash
<tp>
but one look reveals all
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<tp>
i dont care if windows users dont understand
<veltas>
Yes one look at the readme
<tp>
i think if anyone cant understand "source+" or "source-" then I dont want them reading my source anyway, so my naming strategy is much cleverer than you think :P
<tp>
it's a auto dimwit detector and read protection mechanism
<tp>
all in one!
<tp>
done anyone need a po box to mail me my award ?
<veltas>
Yes please
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<tp>
lol
* veltas
closes the door behind him hiding the handful of lawyers muttering about needing an address to sue
<tp>
no, youd only post me a ancient Z80 on a stand
<tp>
i have plenty of brand new original Z80's already
<tp>
lol
<tp>
the source* is for Advanced Forth users only
<veltas>
Is the 'flashme' instructions for flashing?
<tp>
yeah
<tp>
i use it to flash the binary
<veltas>
Why is README capitalised and not flashme?
<tp>
it's a patented eye attraction mechanism
<tp>
if you ever use it you will owe me royalties, and my lawyers will be in touch
<veltas>
Well my lawyers... wait I don't have any lawyers .... I promise
<tp>
hahah
<tp>
me neither ... honest!!!!
<tp>
i wonder if anyone has realised the potential for personalised Coronavirus masks ?
<tp>
mine will read "Forth have? if honk else piss off
<tp>
mine will read "Forth have? if honk else piss off then "
<veltas>
lol
<veltas>
that makes more sense
<tp>
yeah
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<tp>
Im a crap programmer, but that sentence actually makes pretty good sens
<tp>
e
<veltas>
A woman in Finland was getting assaulted for wearing a mask in public, with people laughing at her and saying she was a fool for wearing a mask.
<tp>
gees
<tp>
well their ancestors probably burned a few non flat earthers at the stake
<tp>
nothing new there
<veltas>
Because the media kept going on about how there was 'no evidence' masks worked or some weird stance that they rolled back on when it started becoming policy of major countries to recommend them
<tp>
veltas, these are strange days indeed ?
<veltas>
People keep treating 'no evidence' = 'false', and it's really weird. In a very basic critical sense.
<tp>
i mean did they assault her for wearing clothes ?
<tp>
in her case this was a "stupid mob" violence incident
<veltas>
Yes
<veltas>
There is no evidence that if I throw my laptop at the wall it will break, but I don't need to run 10 studies to make an educated guess
<veltas>
"why don't doctors guess as well?" because of professional ethics
<veltas>
But in private they all do
<tp>
like magpies attacking and killing a magpie because it is 'different' in some minor way, perhaps a albino
<tp>
of course
<veltas>
lol certainly humans never do anything like that
<tp>
no, apart from in Finland
<tp>
she had a mask, she was different ... attack, kill
<veltas>
die die die
<veltas>
I will say bye bye bye instead
<veltas>
Or BYE BYE if I was merk
<tp>
bye!
<veltas>
I can't help but feel sympathy for people being attacked for being different, as I once was called a rude word for buying 2 meals at once in a Mc Donalds late at night by some kids
<tp>
was your gun out of bullets ?
<veltas>
I wish right, the police said that would have been illegal though
<tp>
I find warning shots between the eyes can resolve those kinds of things fast
<tp>
police spoil the right to free expression!
<tp>
of course mobs attack for people being different, always have, always will
<tp>
it's built in somehow
<veltas>
The real victims are the mobs
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<veltas>
Those poor mobs, always getting blamed for their indiscriminate attacks
<veltas>
Think about the mobs, that's what I say
<tp>
hahahah
<tp>
yeah, theyre just misunderstood
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<tp>
mobs need a LOT of love and hugs
<veltas>
I always feel sympathy for the mobs because I was once in a mob
<tp>
mobs had parents that didnt love them enough
<veltas>
You know what, never underestimate just how little people care about anything
<tp>
mobs just need to express their inner selves
<tp>
oh I dont
<tp>
it's on a scale tho
<tp>
the highest end of the "care about fellow humans" is on the highest poverty end of the number line
<tp>
and vive versa
<tp>
want to walk past a house where the inhabitants will all come out and insist that you cannot walk by without coming inside for a meal
<tp>
youll have to go the poorest part of uganda where the house is a made out of mud and sticks
<veltas>
How do you know this?
<tp>
want to be utterly ignored ? walk past a gated millionaires estate in california
<tp>
I read
<tp>
I read a book by a single elderly woman who crossed uganda with her donkey in the 70's
<veltas>
I have read books about africa as well, slightly less positive
<tp>
well uganda was once the shining light of civilisation
<tp>
a long time ago
<tp>
a long, long time ago
<tp>
the world has changed a lot since then
<tp>
as it does
<tp>
like forth, once it was *the* language
<tp>
now it's just a footnote in the pages of programming languages to everyone but it's acolytes
<veltas>
"the shining light of civilisation" that is a pun but it's not really true though is it?
<tp>
yeah
<tp>
sure
<tp>
in it's day
<tp>
like Constantinople and other areas once were
<tp>
uganda has a long long history
<veltas>
Every country does usually
<tp>
Evidence from the Paleolithic era shows humans have inhabited Uganda for at least 50,000 years.
<tp>
they had a long time to improve
<veltas>
I've noticed that the history of a lot of countries is that they started by conquering a load of neighbouring tribes
<tp>
The words of Winston Churchill published in 1908 still ring true today in the 21st Century. “For magnificence, for variety of form and color, for profusion of brilliant life — bird, insect, reptile, beast — for vast scale — Uganda is truly “the Pearl of Africa.”
<veltas>
And then they get conquered by some empire
<veltas>
And then a bigger empire
<tp>
yeah
<tp>
same everywhere
<veltas>
Until the whole world is run by one dominant empire effectively
<tp>
except australia, because they all took one look and kept going
<tp>
lol
<veltas>
heh
<tp>
hot, arid, desolate
<tp>
only good to exile prisoners
<veltas>
Well australia did get conquered, just for a different reason than usual
<tp>
if they tried to swim away the sharks got them
<tp>
yeah
<tp>
it's always a superior tech civ arrive
<veltas>
"This place is really far away and the wildlife is all really dangerous and kills you dead" "Well our prisons are at capacity...." "God save the King"
<tp>
you had phalanxes, they had roman legions
<tp>
yeah, my parents were born here, my ancestors came from the UK. to me Australia is a lovely place, to the indigenous people it was a paradise
<tp>
to a english convict it would have been hell
<tp>
it was 35C in here at this workbench yesterday, at age 66 I dont really appreciate that kind of heat
<veltas>
No air con?
<veltas>
No air, con? ;-)
<veltas>
Is it true aussies always get mistaken for brits by americans?
<tp>
yeah probably
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<veltas>
tp: Did you say you live in a big warehouse?
<tp>
yes
<tp>
well it's not that big, only 20 metres by 15 metres
<tp>
and about 15 metres high in the centre
<veltas>
If my life ever goes completely awry I want to at least own and live in a small warehouse
<veltas>
Have you ever lived in a van?
<tp>
it has it's positives and negatives like anything else
<tp>
sure
<tp>
I lived in a van on the back of a truck for about 2 years
<tp>
was outstanding, wish I had that setup now
<veltas>
Well I like the idea of living little or living in a warehouse I just assume like the collosal bigot I am my fiance doesn't want to
<veltas>
I haven't even asked her, how bad am I, maybe that's her dream life
<tp>
problem of living in a big warehouse is that the space to collect stuff is unlimited
<tp>
women wont approve, no way
<tp>
they want a loungeroom full of ceramic dolphins and lacework in multiple glass displays
<veltas>
Do you get those massive spiders in your warehouse?
<tp>
and a room for all the babies
<tp>
nah, hardly any spiders here, the birds eat them faster than they can multiply
<veltas>
Good riddance
<tp>
I have a lot of 'barking gecko' lizards, quite cute
<veltas>
Those massive spiders would give me a heart attack, I couldn't handle that
<tp>
yeah, Im a arachnophobe
<tp>
we dont have 'massive' spiders
<tp>
largest is the harmless 'wolf spider' with big fangs but no venom
<tp>
and thats about 1.5" across
<tp>
I guess a tarantula would be bigger but I've never seen one
<tp>
the most dangerous is the small 'redback' and the larger 'funnel web' the latter is very agressive and deadly during the mating season, but thery only exist in certain areas, not where I live
<tp>
i was chased by a cousin of the Funnel Web across my loungeroom once, nearly gave me a heart attack
<tp>
bastards!
<veltas>
Huntsman spiders are quite big
<tp>
are they ?
<veltas>
I never understood why people get so upset if I kill a spider in front of them
<tp>
I dont, I'll probably beat you to it
<tp>
any spider I see is a ex spider
<tp>
(thats inside)
<tp>
outside I dont care
<veltas>
Luckily my fiance has no issue with that so when I'm on 'spider duty' I don't have any trouble
<tp>
I mean if we killed every spider on earth in a couple of days we would be knee deep in insects
<veltas>
I wonder if that's actually true
<tp>
and the huntsman is no biggie, I woke to one on my bare chest one morning
<tp>
it is here
<tp>
i flicked it off where it sat about a metre away looking a bit upset
<veltas>
I don't plan on trying it anyway, instead let's evolve spiders to stay out of my bloody house
<veltas>
That's a start
<tp>
they can and do inflict a painfull stab with their long fangs, which are like needles
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<tp>
i annoyed one once with a broom handle and there was a loud "clack' as it stabbed the wooden end, I even felt thru the brom
<tp>
i decided then to never annoy one with a finger
<tp>
they use the fangs to stab cockroaches etc
<veltas>
They are not poisonous though right?
<tp>
no
<tp>
the fangs arent hollow, theyre stabbers only
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<veltas>
But a dagger isn't poisonous and it can kill you, so I am not sure what point I am trying to make
<tp>
I dont mind them, they are calm and avoid people
<tp>
very small dagger, only lethal to insects
<tp>
just painful to a finger
<tp>
i grew up with all this, I dont see any of them as a problem, and I like snakes
<veltas>
Snakes are cool, never been scared of them
<tp>
yeah, and many are quite deadly here
<tp>
but they know theyre deadly
<tp>
so theyre cautious of man but know they can probably kill us
<veltas>
But I do get that phobias are not really rational, they are just ingrained from the times when we lived in hellscapes like australia
<tp>
their personalities are like ice, it can be chilling when youre next to a deadly snake the width of a mans arm and 20 feet long
<veltas>
Luckily australia is not a real place
<tp>
yeah, I comfort myself with that knowledge all the time
<veltas>
Yeah I would be scared of a deadly snake if I was near one, but that would be a rational fear, so not a phobia
<tp>
yeah, I'm the same
<tp>
like standing next to a spinning hellicopter tail rotor
<veltas>
That's like saying "I have a phobia of getting hit by motorway traffic, I can never seem to jump in front of cars!"
<tp>
haha
<veltas>
Finally got down to working on my input code the last couple days
<tp>
about time
<tp>
!
<veltas>
P!
<veltas>
P@
<tp>
I've been diligently improving mine the whole time!
<veltas>
Anyway off to bed, I need to get up early tomorrow
<tp>
even if it's only the IDE and delivery system