<mark4>
that is drawn in a 100% pure console text mode
<mark4>
rendered i should say
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<KipIngram>
Nice.
<mark4>
:)
<mark4>
i have to get the bitmap raw data and somewhat rearrange the pixles :)
<mark4>
each character cell is 2 dots wide and 4 high
<KipIngram>
console based graphics is kind of fun. Do you know about sixels?
<mark4>
yes
<mark4>
used for printers
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<KipIngram>
I've found the whole idea of sixes interesting.
<KipIngram>
I like consoles, but it would be nice to be able to look at images and so forth when you wanted to.
<KipIngram>
Without having to pony up for the full GUI experience.
<KipIngram>
I've always felt like GUIs are overdone - graphics used where it's not really needed.
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<KipIngram>
Holy cow it's come up a blow.
<KipIngram>
Intense thunderstorms, tornadoes in the area, quarter-size hail, the works.
<KipIngram>
The easter edge of it all is just entering the area, and it sticks WAY off to the west in my weather app.
<KipIngram>
Looks like it's going to be quite a night.
<mark4>
where are you located?
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<KipIngram>
Houston area.
<KipIngram>
Oh; I guess he quite.
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<mark4>
im back :)
<mark4>
i had to reboot
<KipIngram>
mark4 - I'm in the area just slightly west of Houston, TX.
<KipIngram>
It's lightened up some now, but I think there's more to come in a little bit.
<mark4>
yea i was in north dallas till i moved here
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<KipIngram>
My sister in law lived in Dallas for a while.
<KipIngram>
I spent a summer in Fort Worth, way back in 1982, doing an engineering internship with General Dynamics.
<KipIngram>
Man, I was as green as green gets - only had my freshman year under my belt.
<mark4>
heh
<mark4>
fucking getting annoyed with the GIMP. every fucking thing you do it anti aliases the fucking results and theres no fucking way to turn it off
<MrMobius>
mark4, what are you doing with it?
<MrMobius>
i have no graphics skills and got extremely annoyed at similar shenanigans then just wrote a python script to output svg
<KipIngram>
MrMobius: Way to go man - like how you roll.
<mark4>
im doing a 3d rotation transform about the z axis
<mark4>
and its fucking over by bluring the entire fucking image with anti aliasing
<mark4>
i fucking hate anti aliasing and you cant fucking disable
<mark4>
it
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<mark4>
im not using svg
<MrMobius>
ya i made about half of a video game on windows once and anti aliasing always being on was annoying
<mark4>
i need to have one image not rotated. a copy of it rotated 5 degress + and 5 degrees minus then 10+ and 10+ ... all the way to 85+ and 85-
<mark4>
actually i could use reflections and get rid of the - side
<KipIngram>
mark4: What are you writing?
<mark4>
im going to do a ray cast thing in a console
<mark4>
text mode
<mark4>
what i need is a damned graphics editor that does not totally FUCK OVER everything i try do in it
<mark4>
and #gimp is 99.909999999999% unresponsive
<mark4>
they answer one question and then go away for a month
<mark4>
and sometimes their answer is "you cant stop it doing that"
<KipIngram>
I've used gimp quite a bit but I've never found it to very... graceful.
<mark4>
every time i need to use it its a nightmare of constant fighting it to NOT do something it thinks i must want
<MrMobius>
mark4, are you on windows?
<MrMobius>
you should be able to use GDI/GDI+ to rotate pretty easily and I think you might be able to disable anti aliasing
<MrMobius>
although opencv in python might let you do it too
<KipIngram>
There's also the ImageMagick library, but you have to code your tasks then.
<mark4>
linux
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<mark4>
yea i dont know if this is going to be a probel for users
<nihilazo>
I mean, depends how much you do or don't trust Andrew Lee
<mark4>
depends on what happens to the network
<mark4>
dont know anything about him
<cmtptr>
nothing is different from what we all should have assumed was going on all along, it's just that now a bunch of the staff is having a hissy fit
<nihilazo>
I personally don't trust somebody who tried to do a hostile takeover to run the network wel
<mark4>
as for data mining our chitchats anyone can do that already
<mark4>
through the logs so im not worried about that here
<cmtptr>
it wasn't a hostile takeover. he paid for it
<mark4>
THIS is a public forum
<crc>
I've setup a #forth on libera.chat in case freenode goes down
<mark4>
crc well done :)
<mark4>
but it all depends on what happens to the network
<MrMobius>
ya doesnt seem time to panic yet
<mark4>
not saying we need to abandon ship unless it sinks :)
<cmtptr>
what is libera.chat?
<siraben>
it's where the freenode staff are leaving to, IIRC
<cmtptr>
is it set up by all the freenode losers who pitched a tantrum?
<crc>
mark4: agreed; just best to be prepared
<cmtptr>
then i wouldn't go there, i'd move to oftc or something
<siraben>
isn't freenode undergoing a hostile takeover?
<cmtptr>
no
<siraben>
oh god every channel is talking about it
<cmtptr>
it isn't hostile to purchase something
<mark4>
heh
<cmtptr>
and the purchase happened years ago and you never noticed it
<mark4>
it was a takeover - how HOSTILE it is depends on what the new owner does to the network
<mark4>
staff bailing might be a problem though
<cmtptr>
how often do you ever interact with freenode staff?
<mark4>
that alone might take the network down if theres not enough staff to maintain it
<mark4>
its more important to know how ofthen they interact with US lol
<cmtptr>
well i don't miss christel i'll say that
<mark4>
the online staff i see as a source for help and info AND protection
<mark4>
i miss lilo
<cmtptr>
she wasn't shy to abuse the global notice feature to pimp her US political interests
<ecraven>
isn't christel the one they blame for the sale?
<mark4>
libera might not be a stable irc network either
<cmtptr>
if you're going to move, i absolutely would not move to a network founded by the morons stirring up this drama
<mark4>
heh
<mark4>
i have no immediate plans to move
<mark4>
this has been my irc home for 20 years lol
<mark4>
and if there were any corporate polatics behind the scenes over that time i saw absolutely none of it
<cmtptr>
i have this incredible irc client that can connect to multiple networks at once
<mark4>
also... we might see 2875629386459824 channels all jump ship and have a server less succeptable to netsplits lol
<mark4>
same here :P
<mark4>
just press control T and have a new net connection :)
<cmtptr>
mark4, when the whole internet was losing their shit over ajit pai reclassifying the internet under title 2 or whatever it was, christel started abusing global notices to stir up net neutrality shit
<siraben>
cmtptr: isn't the problem that the people who run the network have all resigned? idk about the new management
<mark4>
thats THE ONLY potential problem
<siraben>
oh wow, #sway has abandoned ship altogether
<cmtptr>
siraben, the "new management" has been the management for years and you never noticed. a few of the staff has resigned. i don't know what percentage of it, because i don't know much about how freenode is run, but i guarantee you that whatever they used to do, they can be replaced
<mark4>
its like if this channel had arguments over what forth standard we should limit the chat too and it got so bad we had to create two channels :P
<mark4>
p.s. that would be the 83 standard kthxbai
<siraben>
cmtptr: did you read the gist?
<cmtptr>
i read mniip's resignation letter
<cmtptr>
i made it one sentence into that gist and stopped reading because it's obviously written using charged language to evoke an emotional response rather than actually conveying useful information
<cmtptr>
god damn i hate human beings
<siraben>
it does elaborate below
<cmtptr>
everybody just friggen relax
<siraben>
as someone who doesn't know what's going on, I'm just reading int othis
<siraben>
into this*, so the first sentence conveys nothing
<mark4>
cmtptr, there was a charlie brown joke "I love mankind! its just people i cant stand"
<cmtptr>
"Freenode staff have stepped down. The network that runs at freenode.org/net/com should now be assumed to be under control of a malicious party."
<cmtptr>
siraben, ^
<siraben>
cmtptr: i have no context to that, who even is the new party and so on
<MrMobius>
i wonder how much of that is histrionics
<siraben>
i'm just reading for more info atm
<cmtptr>
siraben, then your default position should be /skepticism/, not hysteria
<mark4>
PANIC!!!!!!!!! }:)
<KipIngram>
What?
<mark4>
see what happens after the dust settles
<MrMobius>
yes chill out here for now and move to the next thing if it ever actually ends up happening
<siraben>
cmtptr: 'course
<siraben>
i'm still bridged via matrix anyhow
<KipIngram>
Can someone give me a 10 second thumbnail?
<KipIngram>
What's going on?
<mark4>
but libera does not seem to be able to handle the influx of rats jumpig ship
<mark4>
someone bought the freenode network
<MrMobius>
KipIngram, freenode got sold maybe at some point in the past. staff got angry and some quit today. unclear yet if this means anything and we should go to a another network
<mark4>
the staff here are quitting and setting up a new server
<mark4>
lots of irc users seem to be going over to that new network
<mark4>
so much so that it is having problems lol
<siraben>
some channels have left en masse already
<KipIngram>
Ok. Well, I'll just follow whatever we all decide to do.
<siraben>
that's inconvenient
<mark4>
a fool is quick to anger
<mark4>
new management at east podunk machenery ltd does not mean everyone has to quit
<mark4>
my only problem is some of us might decide to zig while the rest decide to zag lol
<mark4>
i vote we zig if we need to. no zagging!
<KipIngram>
:-)
<MrMobius>
i wish i knew what the guy was so angry about when he quit
<MrMobius>
like if the guy bought freenode to get our emails so he can spam us or something i think that would be in his announcement that he was quitting
<KipIngram>
The thing I just saw said that when this guy bought the network he "promised to exercise no operational control."
<mark4>
its not one that quit
<mark4>
i think its MOST
<KipIngram>
But is now going back on that promise.
<mark4>
i think most of the staff here are bailing but ok so we get new staff?
<KipIngram>
Asserting ownership of user data.
<KipIngram>
But I can't think of any "data" that I have here that's meaningful in any way.
<mark4>
this is a public forum. google data mining my emails is EVIL
<mark4>
they data mine our chitchat in here i could care less
<cmtptr>
i know mniip, and his is written with more useful information and less chicken little
<KipIngram>
Right - this is more or less the "neighborhood bar" that I drop in at on the way home from work.
<mark4>
heh
<mark4>
at least you dont drop into it on the way TO work :)
<KipIngram>
Heh heh.
<mark4>
i have a dentists appointment coming up in 20 minutes
<siraben>
clearly IRL takes priority over net drama :P
<mark4>
shit might hit the fan here. the network might have some problems due to lack of adminstration on hand
<mark4>
and from there it might go down perm or come back strong with new staff
<cmtptr>
how hard can it possibly be to keep freenode running, seriously
<mark4>
its a non event so far... just someething to be aware of
<mark4>
cmtptr, staff here are pretty much all volunteers not paid staff
<MrMobius>
cmtptr, looks like a pissed off 9th grader wrote that
<MrMobius>
this seems like a lot of nothing
<cmtptr>
it is a lot of nothing
<mark4>
you lose all of those and get nobody else stepping up to the plate and things can happen... not sure what but... THINGZ!
<cmtptr>
mark4, mniip's letter suggests that they already have replacements lined up
<mark4>
well behind the scenes it might be a huge deal. here in this channel meh
<mark4>
good ones or bad ones? :)
<mark4>
lol
<MrMobius>
ya "staff" is kind of a funny exaggeration
<mark4>
hall monitors :)
<MrMobius>
assistant to the regional manager
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<cmtptr>
who cares? as long as they're not using the network to spam me with their dumbass ill-informed politics like christel did, i don't care
<MrMobius>
that letter says that Andrew Lee bought other IRC networks. anyone know what terrible thing happened to those?
<mark4>
thats a great question :)
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<mark4>
dentist time
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<cmtptr>
must be that time of the year. my appointment was on monday
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<siraben>
cmtptr: I don't think it's going to get better
<siraben>
I see a few people over on #forth over there o/
<KipIngram>
So this is mostly just going to be about us deciding "continue here" vs. switch to a different server?
<siraben>
KipIngram: the domain has also changed hands
<siraben>
so there's essentially no continuity
<siraben>
KipIngram: and the new management is definitely hostile
<f-a>
siraben: do you think there is a way out without a split?
<f-a>
what is #haskell-* deciding to do?
<siraben>
f-a: I have no idea, hmm
<KipIngram>
Hostile in what way?
<siraben>
I'm trying to get a ZNC bouncer set up before I head to bed, seems like the only viable option rn
<KipIngram>
Just meaning that they don't want us here?
<f-a>
hehe
<cmtptr>
siraben, bye then
<cmtptr>
sorry your isp can only connect to one server at a time
<siraben>
well, I'll still be here while the bridge is up
<cmtptr>
i'll say it once more: if you think the answer is to leave freenode and go to a different network, why in god's name would you go to a new network founded by the same people who fucked up freenode?
<cmtptr>
this is why democracy is a terrible thing
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<siraben>
lol, not sure how that is related to this
<cmtptr>
because the mob is retarded
<MrMobius>
how is this "malicious?"
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<MrMobius>
and what is this "Safety of information" business? who in the heck is storing information safely on IRC???
<KipIngram>
What are worried will actually HAPPEN, here in the channel?
<KipIngram>
What are "we" ...
<cmtptr>
nothing, it's siraben being hysterical because of some drama queens
<MrMobius>
i guess the worry is that the channel will no longer function somehow
<MrMobius>
like if freenode wasnt reliable any more
<MrMobius>
the real danger is i think that people panic and half of them leave for something else so we dont have everyone in the same place
<KipIngram>
That seems like it will either happen or it won't - we can figure that out when the time comes, right?
<siraben>
KipIngram: perhaps not here, but for bigger channels, it's necessary to have connections with staff for abuse control
<MrMobius>
while freenode continues to function as always
<siraben>
oh noes we lost f-a
<siraben>
we'll see heh
<f-a>
you regained f-a
<MrMobius>
(+10 exp)
<f-a>
also siraben is a pretty level person
<f-a>
I hope things can get better tho I doubt it
<MrMobius>
yes to be fair people are losing their shit in a lot of channels not just siraben
<siraben>
I'll just ride it out, but there's not really a guarantee things will continue working
<f-a>
if even ½ of what has been written is true, jumping ship will be unavoidable
<f-a>
yeah waiting a week or so to listen to all the party is improtant
<siraben>
f-a: thanks heh
<cmtptr>
f-a, can you please clue me in as to which half is cause for jump?
<siraben>
f-a: let's see how new hands with no former staff go in running one of the largest IRC networks :P
<f-a>
cmtptr: freenode has always been a beacon for OSS, and its allure was that it is community based, hence project flocked here even in an official form
<f-a>
now we learn that there is some sort of takeover and that previous staff, who served us well with promptness and kindness, is being ousted out
<cmtptr>
no, what you learned is that staff who was complicit with a purchase four years ago is suddenly today describing it as a "takeover"
<f-a>
the times where I interacted with them they were always professional and useful
<f-a>
but I will restate "yeah waiting a week or so to listen to all the party is improtant" ←
<siraben>
cmtptr: the former head of staff (christel) had no right in selling it
<siraben>
and now the other staff are being bombarded with no legal option
<cmtptr>
so christel broke the law?
<siraben>
who is saying that
<cmtptr>
you did
<cmtptr>
siraben> cmtptr: the former head of staff (christel) had no right in selling it
<siraben>
i'm just going to link to the sources than re-interpret them; see https://www.kline.sh/
<cmtptr>
can you point me to the part where it says she had no right?
<cmtptr>
remember when freenode had a wave of spam bots that would join channels and advertise everyone to go join another network?
<f-a>
yes
<f-a>
those were fun days
<cmtptr>
i see this is effectively the same thing, only this time perpetrated by some disgruntled volunteers
<cmtptr>
don't give these idiots any credit
<f-a>
cmtptr: who is being iperbolic now :P
<cmtptr>
tell me how it's different
<f-a>
some spambots posting high quality penis ASCII art vs. volounteer staff :P
<cmtptr>
i didn't say ascii penis, i said advertising another network
<siraben>
cmtptr: are you even reading these letters
<f-a>
it was intermingled
<cmtptr>
siraben, as i've mentioned several times, i tend to stop reading the ones once they invoke words like "trumpian"
<f-a>
cmtptr: I feel we are arguing despite advocating the same course of action (wait a fortnight)
<siraben>
cmtptr: there are other sources as well that are written less emotionally by \_first parties\_
<f-a>
but having interacted with freenode staff, I found them mostly reasonable
<siraben>
f-a: yeah, i'm going to pause discussion on this for now and wait
<f-a>
that + volounteering makes me /attentive/ to their reasons
<cmtptr>
f-a, i'm still arguing because i feel like i've made a point a couple of times now which has gone unnoticed: /under no circumstances will the correct answer be to move to libre.chat./
<f-a>
yeah siraben is right, I do not want to spam #forth
<f-a>
maybe not for you or for other people, if I decide (in a few weeks) that freenode is becoming another Discord, I will personally say sayonara
<cmtptr>
f-a, and you missed the point now for a third time
<f-a>
not then, time to fetch a book on Set theory and another one on Type theory
<f-a>
cmtptr: then please be assertive :P
<cmtptr>
libre.chat is not the only alternative irc network
<f-a>
I have not extensive knowledge cmtptr , but my choice would be for a network wich is: community based and funded by sponsors (≃ freenode)
<f-a>
siraben: one is printed by Lulu
<f-a>
(I hope it is a good service…
<f-a>
Homotopy Type Theory, I just found I hate reading stuff on an ebook reader
<f-a>
even books I love
<cmtptr>
f-a, most projects that aren't on freenode are on oftc
<f-a>
I wouldn’t argue with that, I know debian and friends are there, I know some *very* popular stuff is here
<siraben>
ooh HoTT, I've been meaning to make more progress on that, I actually participate in a weekly reading group for that book but we've been derailed in recent weeks on theorem provers like Coq and Agda, mostly for context, which is fine
<f-a>
like
<f-a>
uhh
<f-a>
#haskell we are not really popular
<f-a>
second book in on set theory siraben
<f-a>
I am still a bit saddened by Vitali set stuff
<f-a>
siraben: learning by doing is superfine I feel
<f-a>
and once I get the new lappy I will start it too I feel
<siraben>
after type theory, do you really want to look into classical set theory? 😂
<cmtptr>
f-a, then why would you ever want to move to libre.chat instead of oftc? (honest question, i don't know much about oftc)
<siraben>
Oh, what about Vitali sets, that you can't assign a measure to all subsets of R?
<siraben>
(btw maybe this is OT for #forth heh)
<f-a>
yes, siraben
<siraben>
cmtptr: it's libera*
<f-a>
that weird one which has µ(0) desipte covering [0,1]
<cmtptr>
siraben, what does that mean in this context?
<f-a>
cmtptr: I have not decided, but I would move where my other channels move
<siraben>
cmtptr: it's the name of the new network
<siraben>
unless libre.chat is something else I'm not aware of
<cmtptr>
f-a, of course, but i would want to convince others in order to help convince channel owners
<f-a>
so #haskell #haskell-it #vabal #freegamer #librejam #esperanto #intfiction etc.
<f-a>
I also see some potential of using Matrix (which I have never used, so I cannot judge)
<f-a>
I am not pledging to move to any specific server
<cmtptr>
siraben, oh you were correcting my spelling. thanks
<f-a>
siraben: that is my other interest in TT
<f-a>
constructivism seems fine
<f-a>
In probability theory — which I know slightly better — interpretations are aplenty and I have done my research
<f-a>
settling on logicism
<f-a>
so I need to make up my mind on other stuff too :P
<siraben>
f-a: I think we should move the math conversation off-channel, just to not clutter here
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<f-a>
super
<f-a>
to be honest
<f-a>
sometimes #forth can get quite OT (and I like it because despite tangent, they are always related and interesting discussions)
<siraben>
I suppose that's true heh, can be a fun mix of super applied electronics and the most abstract things you'll see :P
<f-a>
one day I learned almost all I know about low level electronics by listening to proteus-guy
<f-a>
in any case, library time, laters
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<KipIngram>
Electronics is fun.
<lispmacs>
hi, can somebody invite me to the #forth channel on the other network? I just get kicked
<KipIngram>
I haven't gone over there yet.
<KipIngram>
Are we already over there?
<KipIngram>
I wonder if my client will connect to both at once...
<KipIngram>
Would it be /connect chat.libera.net?
<lispmacs>
I got into ##forth but not #forth
<crc>
#forth is a redirect to ##forth
<lispmacs>
oh, okay, great
<lispmacs>
I'm using Emacs Rcirc and it is pretty easy to add another netwok to your Rcirc Server Alist
<lispmacs>
I mean, netwokky
* crc
has ownership of both #forth andthere, so can set this up however seems best if needed
<crc>
and ##forth
<KipIngram>
Well, I think I'm in libera ##forth now.
<mark4>
i dont think its time to jump ship yet is it?
<cmtptr>
no, but shit like this creates a land rush which forces channel owners to stake their claims before someone else does
<cmtptr>
this whole thing is an incredibly unprofessional mess and all the more reason to go anywhere but libera.chat. i see #forth over at oftc is already registered by somebody, but it's empty. i'll bet their staff would work with you to transfer ownership over there
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<crc>
cmtptr: #forth currently redirects to ##forth; I registered both of those this morning
<crc>
sorry, missed the oftc mention
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<Zarutian_HTC>
will there be a bridge-bot between that place and here?
<crc>
Zarutian_HTC: I'll be looking into that
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<dave0>
maw
<KipIngram>
Hey dave0
<dave0>
hey KipIngram
<dave0>
apparently there's been a takeover of freenode and the staff have resigned and the new place is irc.libera.chat
<dave0>
hmm
<dave0>
but i only got one source on that
<dave0>
lets see what other channels say
<KipIngram>
I know - a bunch of us are over there already.
<dave0>
ah good good confirmation
<KipIngram>
I have them in consecutive weechat buffers.
<KipIngram>
It's ##forth over there, for some reason.
<KipIngram>
I'm just not horribly interested, but thanks.
<dave0>
yeah it's irc politics... snafu
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<cmtptr>
there hasn't been a "takeover"
<cmtptr>
there was a purchase four years ago, and there's been some management changes and some of the staff got their panties in a wad about it
<KipIngram>
Meanwhile, no one's really told me clearly what "bad thing" may be about to happen if we don't depart.
<cmtptr>
hE hAs AcCeSs To YoUr MeTaDaTa NoW !!!!!!
<xybre>
All of the staff resigned, and likely over the next few weeks all or most of the servers will probably be taken down, as they are donated and not owned by PIA
<xybre>
cmtptr: that doesn't seem to be the case at all
<cmtptr>
what doesn't?
<xybre>
See above link
<cmtptr>
i've seen the links and the letters of angsty teens raging about the man keeping them down
<cmtptr>
you're reading one person's emotionally charged opinion
<xybre>
Right
<cmtptr>
one side's, i should say
<xybre>
No, I read multiple resignation letters from the staff
<xybre>
Ok
<xybre>
Good luck!
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<cmtptr>
don't let the door hit you on the way out, i guess
<mark4>
:/
<mark4>
if the new owner of freenode can datamine this sentence and make a buck he is a better man than i am
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<cmtptr>
ha
<cmtptr>
aaahhh i knew i recognized the name tomaw from somewhere
<cmtptr>
he is staff and committee chair at oftc
<cmtptr>
that's funny...
<KipIngram>
cmtptr: That's pretty much how I feel about it too.
<cmtptr>
now that i've made the connection that at least one of the incoming team is also staff at oftc, i'm more convinced that this whole thing is just a load of inflammatory drama
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