whitequark[m] changed the topic of #glasgow to: glasgow interface explorer · code https://github.com/GlasgowEmbedded/glasgow · logs https://freenode.irclog.whitequark.org/glasgow · discord https://1bitsquared.com/pages/chat · production https://www.crowdsupply.com/1bitsquared/glasgow · CrowdSupply campaign is FUNDED
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<d1b2> <TomKeddie> @rwhitby Thanks, I haven't been able to keep up with all the changes, will take a look now.
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<d1b2> <TomKeddie> @rwhitby - looks great, quite a powerful combination of features, thanks for persevering - suggest labelling the USB C connectors (or perhaps an arrow from one to the other?) - am still dubious about the ASA and ASB jumpers striking the glasgow connector, perhaps move them to the edge of the board? - since you're unlikely to use J5 without J9 and J10 without J11 it would be great to have them side by side, I think there is room and the routing seems
<d1b2> ok - I'm not sure which combinations are valid on J8, would be good to prevent a 5V-GND short by moving them away from each other on the same connector - would be great to see some doco on the underside but perhaps there isn't room.
<d1b2> <rwhitby> all very good points, will look at the jumper locations. 5V-GND is intentional, so you can plug an external power supply into there if Glasgow doesn't give enough grunt.
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<d1b2> <rwhitby> @TomKeddie suggestions for the port names? Perhaps lower port is "Test Port" and upper port is "Monitor Port" or something like that? I hope someone else has an idea for better names ...
<d1b2> <rwhitby> only trouble with moving J10 and J11 is that then there's no space for well-sized silk to label them.
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<d1b2> <rwhitby> @TomKeddie like this?
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<d1b2> <rwhitby> And there's fair amount of room for documentation on the back. Just need to work out what to put in there. Any suggestions?
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<d1b2> <rwhitby> @electronic_eel: v0.8a pushed for review
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<d1b2> <rwhitby> @TomKeddie thanks for pushing for those jumper location changes. it's a better layout as a result of your persistence.
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<d1b2> <TomKeddie> @rwhitby sorry there isn't more time overlap for us. The new location for the ASA/ASB connectors conflicts with the shroud on the Glasgow pin header. Unfortunately they do need to move to the edge or back to where they were.
<d1b2> <TomKeddie> The usb data and SBU headers are close, given the small ring on the pad they're probably ok but it's tight.
<d1b2> <TomKeddie> You can get this view by adding the connector model to J1 as here.
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<Someone_Else> d1b2: what are you making exactly?
<d1b2> <TomKeddie> @rwhitby am conscious #glasgow is getting noisy so I thought I'd add this here, feel free to respond in #glasgow to keep the flow going. I had a shot at a block diagram for the underside using the schematic editor (every tool is hammer). I think you should renumber your designators to make those J1 J2 and J3 for simplicity. I suggest drop the PORT words from the labels and use larger text, SNOOP and TARGET are fine as labels. Adding the same
<d1b2> labels to the schematic would be good.
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<d1b2> <xabean> @rwhitby as a casual observer of this, <3 all of this and thank you for the work!
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<electronic_eel> rwhitby: ok, I now had a look at the current version of your addon
<electronic_eel> 2 small things on the schematics side:
<electronic_eel> J9 and J11 have ugly wiring on the schematics. might make it harder for others to understand than necessary
<electronic_eel> the wiring crosses other labels and such, that makes it hard to read/understand
<electronic_eel> maybe split this whole part out and put it on a separate sheet?
<electronic_eel> VEN for the AP2171 power switch - I suggest using 100K too to allow switching this by pullups too
<electronic_eel> then there are two small layout things:
<electronic_eel> unnecessary wires or stubs: A7 wire, and unecessary change to bottom layer on SDA, SCL, INT
<electronic_eel> connect VBUS_DFP from the TVS diode on top layer to the jumper to allow max current to flow into the diode
<electronic_eel> that's it from my side
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<electronic_eel> but very good find from TomKeddie with the jumpers colliding with the shrouds on glasgow. I missed that one
<electronic_eel> so hooray for teamwork :)
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<electronic_eel> @TomKeddie re your basic schematics idea in https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/613461005392936961/815959441546543124/unknown.png
<electronic_eel> i think one point of it is wrong, and that is the location of J9 and J11
<electronic_eel> when you open J9 or J11, the connection still goes through between the target and snoop ports
<electronic_eel> it is just the connection to the 1.2/3.3 switch that is disconnected
<electronic_eel> but i like the idea of putting a simplified version of the schematics on the back
<electronic_eel> but i think the function of J8 and the VBUS_DFP should be shown too, otherwise reading the labeling on J8 is just confusing
<d1b2> <rwhitby> I like where all this is going.
<d1b2> <rwhitby> A7 stub is intentional, for post manuf blue wiring.
<electronic_eel> ah, ok. but wouldn't you just solder a bodge wire on the through hole connection of the header to glasgow?
<d1b2> <rwhitby> Will renumber stuff today, now that the functional schematic is stable. Will clean up schematic too.
<electronic_eel> that would be my first solution, scratching soldermask off is possible, but i wouldn't do it if a nice tht hole is nearby
<d1b2> <rwhitby> Will change ven pulldown
<d1b2> <rwhitby> True on A7.
<d1b2> <rwhitby> I forgot about the soldermask
<d1b2> <rwhitby> So no more functional changes?
<electronic_eel> I think this is a good package as it is and don't see any need for changes
<electronic_eel> getting the silkscreen on the bottom right will maybe take a few rounds of improvement
<d1b2> <rwhitby> Yep
<electronic_eel> but that shouldn't interfere with layout or schematics
<d1b2> <rwhitby> Yes, that is why I cordoned it off.
<d1b2> <rwhitby> And moved stuff to expand the space
<electronic_eel> it looked to me like you started with layout relatively soon in your project, so you had to do quite a lot of changes to it to accomodate different schematics
<electronic_eel> i usually try to nail schematics first with lot's of review rounds and stuff before i start on layout
<electronic_eel> so i usually just have very minimal changes to schematics once i started layout
<d1b2> <rwhitby> That was intentional, to get KiCAD and pcb layout practice.
<electronic_eel> ok, i think you got that
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<d1b2> <rwhitby> I'm still wary of what I don't know that I don't know on that front.
<electronic_eel> a lot of layout is practicing. you will get better with every board you do
<d1b2> <rwhitby> Practice is fine. It's the optimisation function that I'm not sure of.
<electronic_eel> oh, one thing i just see: you could move the usb connectors out by 1 or 2 millimeters. i think that is the suggested mounting pattern for usb-c connectors
<electronic_eel> so that you could theoretically put a case around it
<d1b2> <rwhitby> Ok, I thought I had it that same as Glasgow, but will check.
<electronic_eel> i just measured 1 mm on my revC2 with the calipers
<electronic_eel> but better check in the design files, they are probably more accurate
<d1b2> <rwhitby> Ok
<d1b2> <rwhitby> Is target and snoop understandable for port labelling?
<electronic_eel> i think it is good. but i had a deep dive into the schematics of the addon first, so maybe my assessment is not the best for this
<electronic_eel> you could copy the 3d models of the tvs diode arrays from glasgow
<electronic_eel> then you'd have a more complete 3d view
<electronic_eel> greg has worked on making really nice renders of the 3d data
<_whitenotifier-5> [glasgow] jspencer closed issue #279: README updates for macOS - https://git.io/Jtb8u
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<d1b2> <rwhitby> I'll need to learn how to do the 3d model in KiCAD stuff.
<electronic_eel> you just copy over the 3d model file from glasgow. then you go into the footprint editor. there is an option to reference the 3d model file
<electronic_eel> did you copy the footprint from glasgow? if yes, the 3d model is probably already referenced, but just to a wrong path
<d1b2> <rwhitby> Will look into this today.
<electronic_eel> yes, it is the one from glasgow and it references a non-existing path, relative from the current dir
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<d1b2> <rwhitby> @TomKeddie what rotation and offsets did you use for the extra connector model?
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<d1b2> <TomKeddie> I posted the wrong image before this one has the correct model highlighted. Y=180 degrees, Z=11mm.
<d1b2> <rwhitby> I moved the isolation jumpers out by 25 mils
<d1b2> <TomKeddie> What about that shunt?
<d1b2> <rwhitby> yeah solder on the shunt will collide, I saw that too.
<d1b2> <rwhitby> the ADC pins I think I'll move back inside the shroud where they were before