13:07 <d1b2> <biot> any word on when the glasgow early bird boards will ship? that deadline seems to have come and gone

13:08 <whitequark[m]> some firmware work still needs to happen, which will happen this or next week

13:08 <d1b2> <biot> hey whitequark

13:08 <d1b2> <biot> so no major manufacturing problems or anything?

13:08 <whitequark[m]> hi biot!

13:09 <whitequark[m]> for that better ask esden; I'm responsible for firmware/software (well, the firmware aspect is the important one here)

13:09 <d1b2> <biot> getting a little paranoid about shipping electronics, crazy delays cropping up everywhere

13:09 <d1b2> <biot> which is a problem when you have a cheap electronic device addiction 😦

13:10 <whitequark[m]> so there's still some bits and pieces to be added in the firmware, and that took a bit too long for various reasons (covid, personal stuff, etc) but i don't think it will take much longer to land it all now

13:10 <whitequark[m]> well

13:10 <whitequark[m]> to be completely sincere: we're in the middle of a pandemic of a kind that has not been seen for literal generations

13:10 <d1b2> <biot> is that actually the reason for those electronics delays? I don't actually know 🙂

13:12 <whitequark[m]> electronics is made by people, after all

13:13 <d1b2> <biot> ah well, I'm sure the firmware will get done

15:49 <modwizcode> Imagine if electronics could be made by electronics ><

18:46 <d1b2> <xabean> "shipping delays" something something Suez Canal

19:43 <d1b2> <biot> oh yeah, that as well. just what we need 🙂

21:13 <d1b2> <esden> I will be writing an update for the backers fairly soon. Yes the early bird glasgows are definitely delayed. Yes the chip shortages are impacting glasgow too unfortunately. The issues are all across the industry. I should know more fairly soon. So in general everyone will have to dig deep into patience. :/

21:13 <d1b2> <esden> We are doing best we can to get things done as fast as we can on our end. The rest is not under our control.

21:14 <d1b2> <esden> The next backer update will hopefully contain some more information how things are going.

21:15 <d1b2> <esden> On the bright side we received some bulk things. The USB-A - USB-C cables arrived for example.

21:15 <d1b2> <esden> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/613461005392936961/824390872988778556/2B920FBD-0F8F-4160-8A2D-2FFFD9A05995_1_105_c.jpeg

21:15 <d1b2> <esden> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/613461005392936961/824390905892306964/E1798F56-65E7-438F-B4CF-D4E36A8F8B43_1_105_c.jpeg

21:15 <d1b2> <esden> I will do a teardown of one of the cables to take a deeper look soon.

21:17 <electronic_eel> aren't the early bird glasgows also delayed because of the lightpipe situation for the cases? because a lot of people from the early bird batch will also have ordered the case

21:18 <d1b2> <esden> Yeah but I think we will ship the cases separately anyways.

21:18 <d1b2> <esden> But I have not clarified that with CS yet.

21:19 <electronic_eel> ah, ok. so you plan to ship the early bird glasgows without cases and the cases a bit later when they are manufactured

21:19 <d1b2> <esden> yeah, I hope we can do that.

21:19 <d1b2> <esden> I did have the assumption (need to clarify with CS) that the cases are handled as their own product with it's own shipping separate from Glasgow.

21:20 <electronic_eel> there are some things left todo for revC3, like finalizing the exact led part nos

21:20 <d1b2> <esden> yep, I got the LED analyzer a few days ago

21:21 <electronic_eel> led analyzer?

21:21 <d1b2> <esden> It is on my todo list to do the tests and get the data on all the LEDs.

21:21 <d1b2> <esden> Yeah, I got the Fesa LED analyzer.

21:22 <electronic_eel> what does it analyze?

21:22 <d1b2> <esden> So that we can have data about the LED instead of "it feels right"

21:22 <d1b2> <esden> https://www.feasa.ie/ledanalyser.html

21:23 <electronic_eel> fancy

21:24 <d1b2> <esden> I got it second hand. Big shoutout to @Hardkrash for telling me about this.

21:24 <d1b2> <esden> I did play with it a tiny bit. It can do a lot of stuff. And the interface to it over uart is super easy.

21:26 <d1b2> <esden> here is the documentation: https://www.feasa.ie/CD/CD_Latest/Documentation/Feasa%20USB%20User%20Manual%20V8.7.pdf

21:26 <d1b2> <Perigoso> Uh, interesting

21:26 <electronic_eel> do you have a broad selection of different led part nos that are easily available, e.g. at LCSC?

21:26 <d1b2> <esden> yes I got all the different led from LCSC

21:26 <electronic_eel> so that you can test them visually and also with the analyzer?

21:27 <d1b2> <esden> the only thing I am missing is a decade resistor box :/ ... the little things we realize too late that we are missing

21:27 <electronic_eel> you mean a switchable one, to dial in different resistor values till it looks right?

21:29 <electronic_eel> i have two of them, with big nice dials. because for some analog testing they are really handy

21:29 <electronic_eel> but for leds you could get by with a better lab supply (with fine grained current control)

21:41 <d1b2> <esden> yeah that is exactly what I had in mind... Amazon has some for $35 which are probably not very accurate

21:41 <d1b2> <esden> so if someone has recommendations, please let me know 🙂

22:13 <modwizcode> I need to get a lab supply but I'm not sure what's cheap and not going to set my house on fire or fry things

22:14 <agg> cheap is very relative of course, but siglent have some nice "is actual test gear, but isn't keysight" stuff

22:15 <agg> rigol too I guess, though siglent have some new cheaper single-output ones too

22:16 <modwizcode> Where's a good vendor to look at for those?

22:16 <agg> ah, rigol dp711 is very similar to siglent spd1305x for example

22:16 <agg> what country/region?

22:16 <modwizcode> isn't that the thing where some of those are basically identical products I feel like I read about this awhile back

22:16 <modwizcode> usa

22:16 <electronic_eel> hmm, wasn't esden more asking about switchable decade resistor boxes than lab psus?

22:16 <agg> yea, a lot of other brands will re-badge siglent or rigol stuff, often in quite surprising places

22:17 <electronic_eel> and i don't think rigol or siglent make decade resistor boxes

22:17 <agg> electronic_eel: modwizcode asked about lab supplies :p

22:17 <modwizcode> my question was unique and taking advantage of esden's question c;

22:17 <electronic_eel> ah, sorry, i didn't get that

22:17 <agg> siglent sell their stuff online in the usa directly e.g. https://siglentna.com/power-supplies/spd1000x-series-programmable-dc-power-supply/

22:18 <modwizcode> Some of these are on amazon I've noticed lol

22:18 <modwizcode> mmm those prices

22:18 <agg> yea, this is what i mean about cheap being relative :p

22:18 <agg> it's cheap... compared to a keysight bench psu

22:18 <modwizcode> that's a bit high for what I can justify on stuff

22:18 <modwizcode> Although I really should see if work won't buy us better bench psu's I do not like the ancient ones we have now

22:18 <agg> you might be better looking for 2nd hand stuff on ebay, especially power supplies are commonly really cheap and very good quality

22:19 <agg> (and in usa you have loads of test gear on ebay...)

22:19 <modwizcode> The difficulty with used/ebay/etc. is that sometimes a lot of the cost is the shipping on these

22:19 <modwizcode> psu's are big and heavy enough that shipping has to be actually considered and often makes it not much worth

22:19 <modwizcode> Not that it might not be possible to knock $100 off

22:19 <electronic_eel> the question is what you are looking for in a lab psu. low output cap, low noise for sensitive analog stuff, precision settings,.. or more ergonomics, fan noise, price,...

22:19 <agg> colour LCD screen :D

22:20 <electronic_eel> boot times

22:20 <modwizcode> LOL

22:20 <agg> i have a keysight e36312a which is nice

22:20 <agg> boots fairly quickly

22:20 <agg> it's an stm32 rather than linux/windows, so

22:20 <agg> but it takes 10W on standy!!!

22:20 <modwizcode> Even if it ran linux I'd expect it to be possible to get a nice quick boot but it takes effort

22:20 <agg> which is unforgivable really

22:21 <modwizcode> Like I bet you could suspend the cpu and just leave it in sleep always and get next to nothing

22:21 <agg> all my test gear is on individually switched extension leads so it's not a huge problem

22:21 <modwizcode> wo that's

22:21 <modwizcode> awful

22:21 <modwizcode> uh

22:21 <electronic_eel> with a traditional transformer setup i think you won't get much lower than 10W

22:21 <agg> i leave the timer/counter powered up so its crystal can stay warm, the rest can turn off

22:21 <agg> electronic_eel: it could disconnect the transformer! it keeps the LCD backlight turned on but at 0% brightness even

22:21 <agg> you can just about see it in the dark

22:22 <electronic_eel> it takes 10 W if you turn it completely off?

22:22 <agg> it has a soft power switch on the front, if you press it it turns 'off' and draws 10W

22:22 <electronic_eel> ugh. that is really bad

22:22 <modwizcode> That's really quite awful

22:22 <agg> right?? it's very modern and it has the nice keysight orange standby LED that matches everything else keysight have made since they were called HP, but

22:22 <modwizcode> you'd think an electronics company would understand such a concept as standby power

22:22 <agg> seems wild to just draw 10W while off

22:23 <agg> anyway like I said, individually switched outlets for each piece of testgear anyway so it's fully off most of the time

22:23 <modwizcode> Individually switched outlets sounds like a nice setup

22:23 <agg> it does boot very slightly faster from standby than cold though

22:24 <russss> I recently got one of those miniware MDP-XP as a small/portable thing and I'm quite happy with it so far

22:24 <agg> also it does current readback to 0.001mA

22:25 <modwizcode> heh

22:25 <agg> so for testing LEDs it would be pretty slick I guess

22:25 <agg> has ethernet of course

22:25 <agg> I have on occasion used it as a floating signal generator

22:25 <modwizcode> One time I was wondering why the fpga board wasn't drawing and current or working, though I'd killed the board like a moron. No. I just didn't properly turn on the bench supply

22:26 <agg> russss: oh, those look so neat

22:26 <agg> i love that there's somehow enough of a market for people to be making all this very high tech portable stuff

22:26 <russss> yeah they are nicely made inside. Marco Reps did a teardown a while back

22:26 <modwizcode> I like portable stuff a lot

22:26 <agg> yea, i watched his teardown, very nice

22:26 <modwizcode> Those look pretty neat

22:27 <modwizcode> The portable stuff always annoys me because i always wish they had slightly nicer screens lol.

22:27 <modwizcode> or tbh just had a way to interface with a phone which has an amazing screen

22:27 <agg> honestly that thing probably has the same number of pixels as my oscilloscope

22:27 <russss> the UI is classic miniware unfortunately, but it does have an (undocumented) USB-serial interface which I'm currently reverse engineering

22:27 <modwizcode> I still have to reverse engineer the usb scope I got at a thrift shop a few years ago

22:27 <electronic_eel> i have several tti QL564P psus. they work well and i really like the ergonomics of having a proper numeric keypad and a dial

22:28 <d1b2> <TiltMeSenpai> I would honestly pay for a dongle that provided a scpi interface for the mdp-xp's... if there's already a serial interface, even better lol

22:28 <modwizcode> Having a proper dial on the power supply is so much nicer than anything else

22:28 <russss> I'd like to make a nice little app for it so I can run everything off the computer. I don't really have space for full-sized test equipment at home so I like the small stuff.

22:29 <agg> idk, i used to be all about the dials but now that i have psus with keypads i find i use that for basically everything

22:29 <agg> I am mostly typing in 3.3 or 5 or 24 or whatever

22:29 <electronic_eel> i have heard good things about psus from rohde & schwarz, like their HMP series

22:29 <modwizcode> It's nice to be able to dial up the value slowly I've found

22:29 <agg> yea, fair, depends what you're doing i guess

22:30 <modwizcode> It's also a lot more definitive than like a squishy up down button which is also common.

22:30 <electronic_eel> agg: yes, that is my take too. i usually directly enter the value. but there are some cases when you want to find some trip point or something, and then you want a dial. so the ideal psu should have both

22:30 <modwizcode> The good dials have nice settling points at each increment so you can really tell you change it

22:31 <agg> yea. the dials on this keysight have detents for each position, but also an acceleration curve so if you keep twisting it goes faster 'just right'

22:31 <agg> would be boring to increment current in steps of 1µA always

22:32 <electronic_eel> my ttis have cursor keys. you can set which digit you are changing with the dial

22:32 <modwizcode> yeah that's how the (agilent?) at my school works

22:33 <electronic_eel> i think the ergonomics of this works really well. much better than the ergonomics on my e load (kikusui) with just acceleration on the dial an no cursor keys

23:54 <d1b2> <xabean> ok getting my tax paperwork to my accountant was due today, but I just got nerdsniped into reading esden's LED tester thing. Me: "how the fsck does it work?" <reads website, doesn't get enough info> <reads linked manual> "Oh! it's fiber light pipes back to the sensor!" ... "wait, if it's just a little fiber, do you have to make a test jig to hold the fiber at the same height/position when testing a series of SMD LEDs?"

23:54 <d1b2> <xabean> I have too many side-hobby interests. I also forgot to pay my estimated taxes to the state and fed. Oops.

23:56 <d1b2> <rwhitby> An update to USB-PD on Glasgow for those who are interested - I was fortunate to have @mossmann review the design, and there's a number of small items to adjust, but also a large item to get input on. @mossmann had the idea that the two ports should be generic and interchangeable, and that SNOOP is confusing when connecting Luna to the board since Luna will be actively driving the USB D+/D- lines. @electronic_eel do you have any thoughts about this?

23:56 <d1b2> Do we want to keep it asymmetric on purpose, or try to make both ports interchangeable?

23:57 <d1b2> <rwhitby> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/613461005392936961/824431669171322880/Screen_Shot_2021-03-25_at_10.27.02_am.png

23:58 <d1b2> <rwhitby> J9 would change to VBUS1/VBUS2/5V and DFP/DFP/GND, allowing DFP switch to drive either VBUS1 or VBUS2 while still allowing VBUS1 and VBUS2 to be connected or VBUS2 to connect to solid 5V.

23:59 <d1b2> <rwhitby> and the ports would just be PORT1 and PORT2.

23:59 <d1b2> <xabean> ossman is awesome. 2nd time I've said this today. :)