<reportingsjr>
azonenberg: what scope do you have?
<azonenberg>
Scope, singular
<azonenberg>
that implies i only have one
<reportingsjr>
heh
<azonenberg>
I have three
<reportingsjr>
DSO and analog?
<azonenberg>
Oh, i thought you meant microscope :p
<reportingsjr>
what are they all?
<reportingsjr>
oh, sorry
<reportingsjr>
oscilloscope, haha
<azonenberg>
My oscilloscope is a 100mhz Rigol mixed signal
<reportingsjr>
DS1025E?
<azonenberg>
Might be, not in the lab atm
<azonenberg>
drawing up vacuum system schematics
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<reportingsjr>
interesting..
<reportingsjr>
for what? :P
<azonenberg>
Eventually? Sputtering and evapo ;)
<reportingsjr>
cool, cool
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<horizontally>
sputtering, very cool
<horizontally>
evaporation... why is that useful?
<horizontally>
like if you have sputtering, what's the advantage of evaporating something
<horizontally>
less substrate damage?
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<bart416>
azonenberg, I found the flaw in designspark
<bart416>
It's autorouter sucks even more than eagle's :(
<bart416>
why is it only cadence has managed to get autorouting down to a reliable point?
<bart416>
And it can only route in rectangles :(
<soul-d>
i like how eagle has it so that you can't undo autoroute :)
<reportingsjr>
you're much better off routing everything by hand with eagle
<reportingsjr>
no point in even attempting to autoroute most of the times
<bart416>
I mean honnestly there are only 3-4 programs that are worth using to design PCBs
<bart416>
OrCAD/Allegro, Altium, ADS and some prehistoric predecessor of altium
<bart416>
OrCAD is the best on average
<bart416>
Altium has the nicest capture engine
<bart416>
And ADS the best simulation engine
<bart416>
You can sort of half assed combine allegro and ads
<bart416>
But then you lose some of the functionality of ADS (like tuning filters and oscillators)
<bart416>
But I swear the combination of those two has saved me days of work already
<bart416>
and the opensource pcb software is a joke when it comes to routing
<bart416>
Another side bonus of ADS is that it can interface with quite a lot of measurement equipment or at the very least simulate it
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<horizontally>
wow bart416's rant ~5 hours ago was totally useful to me
<horizontally>
i don't know much about electrical CAD
<bart416>
no no no, that was not a rant
<bart416>
If I was to rant I'd spend a few pages describing how much eagle sucks :p
<horizontally>
what is it good for?
<horizontally>
i'd love to hear that rant too
<bart416>
Eagle is good for anything?
<bart416>
If it is, I haven't found a use for it yet.
<bart416>
Except if you consider annoying hobbyists and EE students good that is.
<bart416>
It's potentially the most destructive piece of software ever written.
<bart416>
It has caused more people to quit hobby electronics than any other piece of software ever before it
<bart416>
It's worthless for BGAs
<bart416>
Not to mention it has loads of obscure bugs (causing files to become corrupt and useless as well).
<bart416>
And possibly the worst interface one could imagine for CAD software
<horizontally>
i was recommended it and i didn't like it the first time i saw it
<horizontally>
i liked orcad for schematic capture and simulation, but that's the only one that seemed to work fluidly
<bart416>
I swear the 1980s CAD software will outdo it in user friendlyness
<bart416>
Well, altium and ads are far more complicated
<bart416>
Cause they're loaded with features that are too complicated to describe in a single sentence :S
<bart416>
Like ADS can actually succesfully model noise and crosstalk on your PCB due to components (based on their internal structure, pcb material, etc...)
<bart416>
If you then make the actual board and hook it up to test equipment you'll get pretty much the same characteristics + the distinctive 50/60 Hz obviously
<bart416>
It'll also calculate the characteristics of any antenna you throw at it given you model it correctly.
<horizontally>
wow
<bart416>
Altium shines in embedded systems design
<bart416>
And as such has a lot of features related to that, but many of them are hidden as well
<bart416>
Both of those are not intended for unexperienced users
<bart416>
They have too much features and options
<bart416>
And their simulation engines are only as good as the people using them
<bart416>
Cause they need to be configured correctly
<bart416>
cadence's pspice on the other hand is far more forgiving
<bart416>
But slower and harder to link to other things
<bart416>
Like getting pspice and cray lc to work together is near impossible
<bart416>
It's generally the best tool, and it doesn't sound like a geekish program so people won't laugh at you if they see a link to it on your desktop
<azonenberg>
I most definitely do not like eagle, it is indeed worthless
<azonenberg>
I just cant afford the good ones
<azonenberg>
i'm currently using expresspcb and foolingg around with geda and kicad
<azonenberg>
but not ready to commit to either yet
<horizontally>
what do you think about torrents?
<horizontally>
because... i have the full orcad 16.3
<azonenberg>
I need to keep my setup legal, i'm on enough watchlists already
<azonenberg>
last thing i need is to get slapped with a copyright complaint on top :p
<horizontally>
watchlists, why?
<azonenberg>
I'm half joking, but i know some interesting people and do some interesting things
<horizontally>
also, as long as you're at a university, you could probably get a student license
<azonenberg>
If i'm not on at least a couple, [A-Z]{3} aren't doing their job well :p
<horizontally>
lol understatement of the year
<horizontally>
the KKK is after you?
<azonenberg>
I was thinking more along the lines of 3-letter agencies
<horizontally>
sure
<horizontally>
NRA
<azonenberg>
More like NSA/FBI/CIA :p
<horizontally>
ABC, CBS, NBC, TBS
<horizontally>
oh
<horizontally>
KFC
<horizontally>
hahaha
<azonenberg>
If KFC is doing background checks on me, I wonder what my future employment prospects are :p
<azonenberg>
But seriously, the question is not if some of these places have files on me
<azonenberg>
it's how big those files are
<azonenberg>
and, more to the point, how much incorrect info is in them
<bart416>
heh
<bart416>
talking to me isn't going to improve how big those files are azonenberg :P
<azonenberg>
bart416: I know :p
<azonenberg>
But if they knew the whole truth i'd probably be getting job offers
<bart416>
lol
<azonenberg>
Half-truths, on the other hand, might lead to knocks on the door at 0400 :p
<bart416>
but yeah, can't you use a license from your university's EE department?
<azonenberg>
I havent looked into it because i havent needed to make a really complex board yet
<azonenberg>
That will change in the near future
<bart416>
We can checkout orcad licenses at home from the university's licensing server
<bart416>
You just need to keep a vpn client up
* azonenberg
runs his own VPN to campus
<azonenberg>
And right now my really hardcore high-speed design is done on FPGAs
<azonenberg>
And i'm using a premade dev board
<azonenberg>
Once i get my SoC to the point that i'm ready to design a custom board for it, things will start getting fun
<azonenberg>
Because that will involve doing routing of a 16x16 full-grid BGA
<azonenberg>
several-hundred-Mbps LVDS pairs
<azonenberg>
and more
<bart416>
orcad is about the only program that can handle that...
<azonenberg>
I know :p
<bart416>
altium can as well heh
<azonenberg>
Yep
<azonenberg>
Those are the ones i was looking at
<azonenberg>
And i'm talking about being able to route a 16 bit wide DDR2 SDRAM bus
<azonenberg>
including all of the differential pairs going there etc
<azonenberg>
then LVDS out to a high speed IO connector
<bart416>
yeah, you need orcad + ads :P
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
Maybe this explains why more hobbyists dont do really cool stuff like this?
<bart416>
yeah, it's hard
<bart416>
I mean, we can afford it cause we have access to university/college labs
<bart416>
But for a regular hobbyist it's near impossible to gather the resources to do any cool project
<bart416>
Same if you buy parts
<bart416>
You forget one part
<bart416>
And you have to either pay insane shipping or wait weeks to get it
<bart416>
don't know about you but I just throw it in the lab's orders then, they get delivered there daily so you have it the next day
<azonenberg>
I actually buy parts
<azonenberg>
But i have a... large... parts order ready to go out soon
<azonenberg>
like on the order of $500 from digikey
<azonenberg>
everything from LEDs and desoldering braid to FPGAs and flash
<bart416>
order it through your university azonenberg
<bart416>
You get discount + fast shipping
<azonenberg>
bart416: Not worth the trouble
<bart416>
heh?
<bart416>
farnell actually advises students to do that here :S
<azonenberg>
its harder here
<azonenberg>
they had trouble with some embezzling a few years ago and have tightened up the processes significantly
<azonenberg>
clubs cant even make purchases directly anymore
<azonenberg>
they have to jump through so many hoops
<bart416>
We have to put the money up for it first
<bart416>
They don't care what we use it for
<azonenberg>
Yeah, they dont like doing that here
<azonenberg>
they just say, buy it yourself
<horizontally>
damn
<horizontally>
azonenberg is so many kinds of awesome
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
I suppose it's progress if you think that
<azonenberg>
Now i just have to convince my doctoral committee, future employer, and future gf :p
<azonenberg>
whoever those last two turn out to be
<horizontally>
how do you not have a girlfriend dude?
<azonenberg>
horizontally: Right now? Lack of time
<azonenberg>
I'd get pulled into a threesome with her and my work
<azonenberg>
And the work would win out
<azonenberg>
Or, worse yet, it wouldnt
<azonenberg>
and i'd lose my edge
<horizontally>
well when is it going to end dude?
<azonenberg>
I need to live my work to stay sharp
<horizontally>
like in a few years you're going to start looking like shit no matter what you look like now
<horizontally>
hair will start falling out. the gut will poke out
<azonenberg>
lol
<horizontally>
you can always study your ass off once you're butt ugly
<azonenberg>
I have a PhD to finish first :p
<horizontally>
dude... you may end up regretting that
<horizontally>
i know successful PhDs who have girlfriends
<horizontally>
it takes a lot of work to find what you want
<horizontally>
you don't want to lose your edge there either
<azonenberg>
i'm not saying i wont find someone eventually
<azonenberg>
Simply that its not worth the time just yet
<horizontally>
do you know what you're looking for?
<azonenberg>
I havent had the time to think about it whatsoever
<horizontally>
oh wow
<azonenberg>
heck, i'm weeks behind on exam grading despite working every waking hour
<horizontally>
what the hell
<azonenberg>
i have a grant proposal thats 3 pages long and needs to be 15
<azonenberg>
It's all TDMA
<horizontally>
i don't know dude. no one else really cares about your life but you. your PIs are going to encourage you to work harder
<azonenberg>
now that assignmments arent piling up anymore the FIFOs are emptying
<horizontally>
jesus, i hope you don't talk like this in real life
<azonenberg>
Once the semester ends i'll have a whole month+ of winter break to relax
<azonenberg>
Meaning work on my CPU design, teach myself VHDL
<horizontally>
you know what's terrifying? i know friends getting married... at like 22/23
<azonenberg>
and do some QFN stuff
<azonenberg>
Yeah, i know some of those types
<horizontally>
the availability pool starts dropping off
<horizontally>
most of them right now are "can't have sex before marriage" christians
<horizontally>
i'm super picky and i'm getting bored of my gf of 2 years. i want to move on while i can, but a part of me is worried that it'll be hard to find another one
<azonenberg>
Lol... Dont forget the psychopaths
<azonenberg>
Especially at engineering schools there are the cute ones who excel at manipulating guys and bending them to their will
<azonenberg>
"help me with this", "I dont understand that", "go buy me this"
<azonenberg>
i got on the radar of one of them freshman year and probably wont escape until she graduates this year
<horizontally>
wow dude, grow a pair
<azonenberg>
I never said i gave in ;p
<horizontally>
in fact, no don't. you probably have a laboratory setup for that
<azonenberg>
Just that she tries
<azonenberg>
She has a bf but still hits on other guys all the time if she thinks she'll be able to convince them to do something of use
<horizontally>
i hate those
<azonenberg>
I've been largely immune except for once, when the problem she posed was interesting enough from a technical perspective i forgot who was asking it
<azonenberg>
Big mistake :p
<horizontally>
hahaha
<azonenberg>
Nerd snpied
<horizontally>
mine is loyal and sweet, but i'm getting too used to her. it's boring now.
<azonenberg>
This one is not my gf and never will be, i have no interest in her and she knows it
<horizontally>
cool, you do have self-worth
<azonenberg>
But she still tries because i have resources that are of use to her ;p
<azonenberg>
Not that she's interested in me, she just wants to pick my brain
<azonenberg>
Except for the time she jumped on me in the cafeteria line and gave me a bear hug last week (while standing next to a guy that she was, i think, dating at the time) i havent seen her in months
<azonenberg>
Which worries me
<azonenberg>
It means she's plotting something :p
<azonenberg>
Oh well, only one more semester of that lol
<azonenberg>
And lol, of course if have self worth
<horizontally>
i don't know dude. i know smart dudes who feel totally worthless near hot chicks
<azonenberg>
Worthless? No. Uninterested? Sometimes
<azonenberg>
I dont like boring people
<horizontally>
yeah i get that
<horizontally>
you know though, models are some of the most interesting chicks i've met
<horizontally>
they know they're hot
<horizontally>
so they focus on something interesting
<horizontally>
like being smart or having traveled the world or whatever
<azonenberg>
Show me even *one* who does VLSI design in her spare time
<azonenberg>
Good luck
<horizontally>
yeah maybe not, but i can show you a few who picked up at least 5 different languages fluently
<bart416>
I know one that does asic design for a living
<bart416>
does that count?
<azonenberg>
bart416: We're discussing people whos primary line of work is modeling
<bart416>
ah ok :P
<azonenberg>
And my claim is, none of them have any really good tech skills or they'd be doing that instead
<bart416>
well, she isn't bad looking though :P
<horizontally>
so you want someone who is like a clone of you but with boobs?
<azonenberg>
horizontally: Clone? No. But a cute lab assistant would be nice :p
<azonenberg>
At least to the point that i could bounce algorithm design ideas off
<horizontally>
what if she was into a different field of science than you?
<horizontally>
i know a lot of hot bio girls
<azonenberg>
I do too, and depending on interests that might work out... the big thing right now is lack of time
<horizontally>
they're socially well adjusted and know stuff. they've got that confident, calm tone of speaking that can be very attractive
<azonenberg>
Which is why i havent really looked much :p
<horizontally>
well that'll always be the limiting factor
<bart416>
make time :P
<horizontally>
especially as you get into your mid to late 20s, then the pool of available women drops a lot more
<azonenberg>
bart416: I was considering it after the craziness of exams is over
<azonenberg>
But of course i fully expect to get caught up in multi-10-Gbps switch fabric design then :p
<azonenberg>
Because i enjoy it too much to stop
<horizontally>
can you imagine yourself getting bored with this all down the line?
<horizontally>
like 5 years from now?
<horizontally>
tech will always be cool no doubt
<azonenberg>
After almost 12 years? Fat chance
<azonenberg>
I've changed focuses slowly, following a roughly sinusoidal pattern from pure hardware to pure software
<azonenberg>
and now right on the edge
<azonenberg>
But that's just my constant desire for new knowledge, never being content to stand still
<horizontally>
sure that's understandable
<bart416>
horizontally, azonenberg is like an over dampened oscillator :p
<azonenberg>
bart416: More like an LFO
<azonenberg>
With a period of ~10 years
<azonenberg>
and an amplitude of... how do you measure difference between fields of engineering? :p
<horizontally>
i actually do know one model who accidentally made cadmium selenide photovoltaic nanowires in her spare time
<bart416>
also according to adobe reader 125 is smaller than 101%
<azonenberg>
horizontally: accidentally?
<horizontally>
of course, she was in her boyfriend's lab
<horizontally>
but he didn't give her any instructions
<horizontally>
she just kind of played with stuff
<azonenberg>
meaning, pouring random stuff together not knowing what it was?
<azonenberg>
Or was that the goal of the experiment
<horizontally>
that was somewhat the goal of the experiment
<azonenberg>
Well my first requirement would definitely be somebody who is at least somewhat comfortable in a lab
<azonenberg>
I have a live-in lab and if you dont like it then better leave now ;p
<azonenberg>
That alone eliminates a lot of people
<horizontally>
she wants to go into international relations as a lawyer. she had thought out why she wanted to do what she wanted to do
<azonenberg>
So how does nanotech come out?
<horizontally>
she's in a cool program with penn state where she can basically travel the world while taking classes
<horizontally>
her boyfriend
<horizontally>
he did engineering physics
<azonenberg>
Oh, so its not at all her field
<horizontally>
well she was a model for 5 years
<horizontally>
but like would you prefer brains over beauty? like an ugly smart chick?
<horizontally>
you'd be cool with that?
<azonenberg>
Some of both but more on the brains
<azonenberg>
Finding both is not easy :p
<horizontally>
yeah i agree
<azonenberg>
And the conclusion is that its not worth the time
<azonenberg>
as of last time i re-evaluated priorities
<horizontally>
but think of the opportunity costs
<horizontally>
every day that goes by, the worth does go up
<horizontally>
until it precipitously drops and you're stuck with widows and DONOTWANTs
<azonenberg>
Maybe I'll end up just being married to my work
<azonenberg>
It's worked for 21 years
<horizontally>
the past isn't a good indicator of the next 10 years at least
<azonenberg>
I dont care about 10 years, i care about 2-5
<azonenberg>
And especially the 6 month time frame, getting my phd work off the ground
<horizontally>
hmm, so you'll be (23 or 24) or (26 or 27) when you're out?
<azonenberg>
Probably more othe latter
<azonenberg>
But i'm mostly talking about the near field
<azonenberg>
For example i'll have more time to think about other things when not TAing
<horizontally>
i do agree that girls do change between 21 and 25
<azonenberg>
Which is contingent on me getting external funding
<horizontally>
i can see that
<azonenberg>
I have my priorities, and while a mate is on there somewhere
<horizontally>
but especially near the end of your PhD most of the good ones are in serious, committed long term relationships
<azonenberg>
It's far from top right now
<horizontally>
you also want to have experience though
<horizontally>
otherwise, choosing a new one will be difficult
<azonenberg>
Yes, but its not something i can afford to spend time on now
<horizontally>
and maybe by then you might find one you like, but your inexperience might turn her off
<azonenberg>
Sure, domestication of H. Sapiens is a useful skill to have
<horizontally>
maybe you can if you choose to spend some time on it
<horizontally>
like you spend time on irc
<horizontally>
you could not do that
<azonenberg>
lol
<horizontally>
you're not 100% efficient
<azonenberg>
No, but pretty close
<horizontally>
i don't know why i'm telling you this. i stand to lose a lot from you not being around
<azonenberg>
I like to think of my brain as a barrel processor
<azonenberg>
Fine grained multithreading with no overhead
<horizontally>
so don't date any one ever please. just stay here and help people :)
<azonenberg>
Its how i maintain productivity despite a short attention span
<azonenberg>
context switching constantly
<horizontally>
i think you could definitely get a girl who likes sort of dorky nerdy sorts
<azonenberg>
Oh, they do exist
<azonenberg>
The last one i met was cute and interesting and i was actually starting to like her
<horizontally>
but where would you find them? where would you look?
<azonenberg>
Then she dropped out and moved halfway across the county :p
<azonenberg>
On zero notice
<horizontally>
that was a sign!
<horizontally>
like when they invite you to their place
<azonenberg>
To do more background checking in the future? :P
<azonenberg>
So I would have noticed she was getting ready to run away from her rather unpleasant parents?
<horizontally>
oh damn
<horizontally>
so you fall for the crazy ones
<azonenberg>
She was actually somewhat normal by comparison
<horizontally>
to whom? don't say you
<azonenberg>
Well ok, normal compared to me
<horizontally>
hahahaha
<azonenberg>
I suppose your average college girl doesnt ask you over her dorm to chat about black holes and quantum physics
<azonenberg>
But thats exactly what happened the last time i saw her :p
<horizontally>
oh that one
<horizontally>
yeah i remember you telling me about her
<azonenberg>
Yeah
<azonenberg>
But average people are boring
<horizontally>
she was hoping that you'd talk about superposition
<azonenberg>
And the more ``interesting" ones are hard to find
<azonenberg>
And lol
<horizontally>
but instead you kept talking about ground state to higher energy state transitions
<horizontally>
jesus i'm turning into you
<azonenberg>
There were some NSFW jokes about MOSFETs i think
<azonenberg>
But that was it
<azonenberg>
and lol, actually
<horizontally>
what about if you found one that was really curious, but just didn't know stuff
<horizontally>
like had potential?
<azonenberg>
we were talking about how to model the campus shuttle buses
<azonenberg>
as parallel buses
<azonenberg>
and discussing whether the school should hire differential drivers to reduce problem
<azonenberg>
But that they were probably too cheap to pay someone who has the skills to drive two vehicles making out-of-phase turns simultaneously
<azonenberg>
whenever one lane changes left the other goes right etc :p
<azonenberg>
And it'd be decided on a case-by-case basis
<azonenberg>
but finding someone who's interested in hardcore technical stuff who also likes to drop it all and go climb mountains on the weekend is not easy
* azonenberg
remembers the gear locker is only open for another two hours and he needs to sign out an ice axe
<berndj>
do you want to match the trace length for campus shuttles too?