<azonenberg>
Would not at all be surprised if most have concealed handguns too
<soul-d>
so
<soul-d>
din't you want people to carry weapons
<soul-d>
or only certain people ?
<soul-d>
egg police
<azonenberg>
In this particular case, campus security as a minimum
<soul-d>
well go to that gang
<azonenberg>
Obviously you would want to have stricter training requirements
<soul-d>
ask for security probably nice people
<bart416>
Generally most motorcyclist gangs are filled with softies heh
<azonenberg>
Because i can say for a fact that most people with handgun permits, and probably most police, are not qualified
<azonenberg>
couldnt shoot a fish in a barrel
<soul-d>
but just 10 ago you wantend campus
<azonenberg>
And certainly not an active shooter without endangering bystanders
<soul-d>
to carry guns
<azonenberg>
soul-d: I was saying, train them better and THEN arm them
<soul-d>
sorry the wage is to low for such jobs
<bart416>
The thing is, most people with these weapons are not trained at all
<soul-d>
you never get enough trained people
<bart416>
You're suggesting regular people can get them
<bart416>
These people do not receive training
<bart416>
Additionally these people are also capable of snapping and just shooting random by standers
<azonenberg>
bart416: I do not support restrictions (beyond criminal and psych background checks) on who *can* purchase a weapon
<soul-d>
and people with newfound powers will abuse them :)
<azonenberg>
however i also support mandating much stronger training than is in place now
<bart416>
Here if somebody snaps at most they'll punch you
<bart416>
In the US they have a concealed weapon and they can use it
<azonenberg>
If you want the gov't to trust you with a car, you have to pass a test
<azonenberg>
etc
<azonenberg>
And the "purchase a handgun" test should involve probably 40+ hours of range time including shoot/no-shoot drills
<soul-d>
same here for weapons but we had a schooting for a crazy kid
<soul-d>
he was member of club and all
<soul-d>
all legal
<soul-d>
and also shot 6 people
<azonenberg>
soul-d: Those are very rare, and better psych background checking would have probably helped
<azonenberg>
Most of these lunatics were obviously losing it
<soul-d>
yes would cause he was crazy
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<azonenberg>
First, weed out the psychopaths and criminals
<azonenberg>
Then make sure the rest know what they're doing
<soul-d>
to many people still and again if you want to live in a 1984 world
<azonenberg>
You're saying we dont already?
<soul-d>
where sombody with a gun is checking your every move
<azonenberg>
Phone companies are recording every keystroke on your smartphone
<soul-d>
doesn't mean you have to make it worse
<azonenberg>
It's common knowledge that NSA did, and probably still does, tap phone calls whenever and wherever it wants
<azonenberg>
And if the civilians are armed too, it will at least increase the odds of stopping the nutjob
<soul-d>
true netherlands is actualy most phone tapped country
<bart416>
<azonenberg> Phone companies are recording every keystroke on your smartphone <-- Not really
<azonenberg>
soul-d: Whats your source on that?
<soul-d>
but also increases amount of nutjobs
<soul-d>
with guns
<azonenberg>
I wasnt aware that intelligence published stats
<bart416>
Not a single phone company here pre installs Carrier IQ on their phones
<azonenberg>
bart416: cIQ is the first tool like that *to be detected*
<azonenberg>
how many other carriers have something similar that wasnt found yet?
<soul-d>
it's probably a geustimate
<bart416>
Actually many are known
<azonenberg>
I'm willing to bet, all of them
<bart416>
+ it's against EU privacy policy :)
<azonenberg>
Tapping civilians w/o warrants also violates federal law
<azonenberg>
Did that stop them?
<azonenberg>
Big Brother is watching, get over it
<bart416>
Oh but why don't you use your guns to defend your rights?
<soul-d>
in that news source
<azonenberg>
I'm not furrywolf here advocating a violent revolution
<bart416>
Like the general excuse given to own guns
<azonenberg>
I just wnat to be able to fight back if somebody starts shooting at me
<soul-d>
it says only 2000 telephone taps where placed in usa where 1700 where placed in netherlands a day ( sounds to farfected to me on 200mln people )
<bart416>
+ honnestly I could do more damage with something I could build in the electronics lab in an afternoon than with an automatic machine gun
<soul-d>
200 on a year
<azonenberg>
soul-d: 2000 taps? Not even remotely close
<azonenberg>
there are more, i'm quite sure of that
<soul-d>
yeah now i reread it sounds to few to be true
<azonenberg>
bart416: Full auto is just stupid
<azonenberg>
if you want to do damage you want a semi
<azonenberg>
Even a bolt action if you're good enough with it
<bart416>
I could still cause way more damage
<azonenberg>
Depedns on what your skills are, i guess
<azonenberg>
I have no clue how to build an explosive device :p
<azonenberg>
but i can get pretty good accuracy with a rifle at 200m
<azonenberg>
Back to my original point though... campus security at my school could probably get anywhere within 60-90 seconds on a top priority call
<bart416>
We have no campus security
<azonenberg>
local cops at least five minuts and county swat probably ten
<bart416>
And the last time somebody died on campus was a suicide over three decades ago
<azonenberg>
bart416: And when was the last time you had a student mugged by the locals?
<bart416>
On campus?
<azonenberg>
Within a block or two
<azonenberg>
campus security keeps them off the campus proper
<bart416>
Our campus is on the border of the city so hard to tell in terms of blocks :P
<azonenberg>
And we havent had fatalities here since a suicide about five years ago and that was the first in a long time
<soul-d>
most campuses here are not near blocks usaly
<bart416>
I'd have to say it's been a few years as well
<bart416>
+ European cities don't really have blocks lol
<bart416>
You'd probably get lost here
<bart416>
The campus is spread all over city
<azonenberg>
But every month or two we have someone get jumped by a bunch of locals
<azonenberg>
Rarely, if ever, do they present a gun
<azonenberg>
usually it's knives or fists
<bart416>
The worst that has happened here was a rapist in a park nearby a few years ago
<azonenberg>
They want their drug money, they know students have laptops and other things worth selling
<azonenberg>
So they go take it
<azonenberg>
The stupidest part IMO is that they always surrender without a fight
<bart416>
Here they realise they'l be surrounded by a bunch of students and get beaten into he hospital
<bart416>
*the
<azonenberg>
That happened once
<azonenberg>
For the first time in years one of the students fought back
<azonenberg>
broke the nose of one attacker and the rest fled
<azonenberg>
not sure if any of them were caught
<bart416>
They sometimes try it on the places we go out
<bart416>
Lets just say if it's spotted the criminals don't get far
<soul-d>
usa in general is just weird probably has something to do with teaching kids overconfidence
<azonenberg>
soul-d: overconfidence? These guys are sheep
<azonenberg>
they do whatever the guy says even if they're bigger than he is and he doenst show a weapon
<azonenberg>
We had a guy hand over his laptop to an unarmed twelve-year-old :p
<azonenberg>
I am not kidding
<bart416>
Like somebody started a fight in the bar we're normally at
<bart416>
We "escorted" him outside
<bart416>
And showed his head that a plastic trash can cause a concussion :p
<bart416>
*can can
<azonenberg>
lol
<bart416>
And then handed him over to the police
<bart416>
lol "safe" green energy
<azonenberg>
Also, lol @ campus security stats
<bart416>
A wind turbine in scotland exploded due to huricane strength winds
<azonenberg>
they dont list any one of the off-campus incidents from the last year
<bart416>
+ nobody bothers to steal phones here anymore
<bart416>
They get locked within hours anyway
<bart416>
So they become completely useless
<azonenberg>
ipod, phone, laptop are all top targets for these guys
<azonenberg>
So, one must ask the question - why do the students sit down and take it?
<bart416>
Your fear mentality
<azonenberg>
Just a minut ago you were saying that made us all carry guns
<soul-d>
watch adam curtis documantary's
<azonenberg>
now you're saying it makes people not fight back?
<soul-d>
it will explain
<bart416>
It does both
<soul-d>
you fear
<soul-d>
everyone
<soul-d>
trust no other person
<azonenberg>
Because i can guarantee that if i ever was approached by a would-be mugger I would fight with whatever i had on me
<azonenberg>
even if i had to club him with my flashlight
<azonenberg>
Even if overpowered in the end, i'd know that he had to fight for whatever he got
<soul-d>
they look for the weak ofcourse and not someone that might struggle
<soul-d>
and in the moment yo never realy know id probably choose the one that ensures my saftey first
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<azonenberg>
soul-d: That's assuming they managed to get close enough, I generally look over my shoulder and maintain good situational awareness
<azonenberg>
Most of the folks who get jumped have headphones on
<azonenberg>
and are completely oblivious to their surroundings
<soul-d>
sure i do that
<soul-d>
indeed
<azonenberg>
But a surprising number of people dont
<azonenberg>
You're broadcasting two pieces of information
<azonenberg>
first, you are carrying an ipod or similar device that is easily sellable on the black market, easy to conceal, and relatively valuable
<azonenberg>
Second, you can't hear the guy coming
<soul-d>
here there is a trend with openly playing their music in small boxes on them or somthing
<soul-d>
but those people are hazard in trafic also already
<azonenberg>
Lol, yeah
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<soul-d>
also most on tv in usa
<soul-d>
is violence
<soul-d>
at least leass hassle about that then a tit that shows a bit skin or a skin colored suit
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
Yeah, i dont get why popular culture considers it more acceptable to show murdering someone than sleeping with them
<soul-d>
not even that but nakedness in general is worse then violence acts
<bart416>
soul-d, religious based values...
<bart416>
lol, somebody hijacked a germanium diode to make a point contact transistor :')
<bart416>
That's weak, we've used a giant block of germanium for that in the electronics lab
<bart416>
material "sample" lol
<bart416>
It's a pretty heavy slab
<bart416>
Remarkable current capacity actually lol
<soul-d>
hehe
<soul-d>
iran showed the drone they catched
<bart416>
Though that might be more related to the size of the thing than anything else
<bart416>
Yeah, it's not a wood and paper fake for once!
<soul-d>
i believe iran before i do usa
<soul-d>
almost blindly
<bart416>
Iran hasn't had the best believable news report history
<bart416>
Their new revolutionary assault craft was what we'd classify as WWII era fighters...
<bart416>
The only reason western jets wouldn't be able to shoot them is cause they crash before they get in range or they're too slow
<soul-d>
from same sources as nuclear info i geuss ?
<bart416>
Official Iran newsreports lol
<bart416>
They were actually proud to demonstrate it...
<soul-d>
don't think they are top of art but they probably can get their hands on rusian stuff
<bart416>
Hence why it was funny :)
<soul-d>
and rusian stuff
<soul-d>
is better then new jets we are making
<soul-d>
joint strike fightwer
<bart416>
JSF is a joke
<bart416>
They made it into a joke
<bart416>
US needs to stop this entire management outsourcement capitalism bullshit
<bart416>
+ Space program is the source of many revolutionary aircraft designs
<bart416>
So getting rid of NASA funding is like running towards your own goal and scoring
<soul-d>
doesn't make enoguh profit for certain people
<soul-d>
war is bussiness
<bart416>
Honnestly we could have been standing on the moon decades ago if it wasn't for greed