balrog changed the topic of #homecmos to: Homebrew CMOS and MEMS foundry design | Wiki: https://github.com/homecmos/homecmos-wiki | Repositories: https://github.com/homecmos/ | Logs: http://en.qi-hardware.com/homecmos-logs/
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<pie___> anyone here any good with d3js
<sync> Noxz: no, just a huge reinforced concrete slab in the ground
<sync> ideally not coupled to the building
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<Noxz> ahh
<Noxz> my walls are the iffy part, the concrete slab is separated from the walls/foundation by an inch or so of insullation, according to the building plans
<Noxz> I may have some of these machines that I make on the upper floor though, so the concrete slab means nothing to it
<Noxz> so, I would still like to look at either DIY or what is available second hand
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<Noxz> not entirely sure how I would DIY it just yet, but I am going to school at a micromachining lab more or less
<sync> we put them in the basement for that exact reason
<Noxz> yeah, well, my "basement" is also my den, dining room, and kitchen
<Noxz> main access of the house, too
<Noxz> half underground, the other half not (steep slope, by a bridge, which causes a bit of the vibration due to road traffic)
<sync> nothing you can't move to the upper floor
<Noxz> so long as the end device doesnt weigh a ton, then I should be fine upstairs
<Noxz> but then I need to figure out isolatino
<Noxz> k, dog walk time
<Noxz> but glad to be done for the week
<Noxz> we are in the middle (I am nearly done) with our brass cubes
<Noxz> 10mm, plus a frosted finish
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<Noxz> side note: I want a very small force gauge, that can do maybe 100cN max
<Noxz> for testing buckling whatnots
<Noxz> MEMS stuff
<Noxz> kthxbye
<SpeedEvil> Ebay for a turntable scale.
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<Noxz> ohh, nice
<Noxz> 0.01g, that is the resolution on my lab scale, but certainly more portable
<Noxz> maybe simply buying a bare strain gauge and doing a whetestone bridge
<SpeedEvil> Or an optical sensor and wire of known properties
<pointfree> Is this a suitable hub to discuss inkjet printing of electronics (logic gates, circuits, displays, and input devices)? It's not cmos but it is at home.
<SpeedEvil> I don't think anyone is really going to object.
<SpeedEvil> Given the resolutions peole are talking about.
<pointfree> cool
<pointfree> I think it's better than starting a new channel and the goals are more or less the same.
<pointfree> One can get ~50um feature sizes with a cheap Epson or Brother printer.
<pointfree> I started experimenting with hand draw electronics http://www.0xff.in/bin/SVFIG-Aug25-2018-AndreasWagner-paper-and-pencil-electronics.pdf
<pointfree> ...Working on gearing up more with inkjet printing
<pointfree> I found this company selling supplies for inkjet electronics (silver, copper oxide, dielectric, resistive inks, equipment, etc) http://store.novacentrix.com/category-s/1836.htm
<pointfree> I'm also looking for a good source of electroluminescent inkjet ink so I can print an oled display at home. (PEDOT:PPP or PEDOT:PPV)
<pointfree> There are also inkjet graphene inks but the market is rather complicated to sort through.
<pointfree> I think I'm going to try graphene oxide which can be cured into a sheet of graphene with a flash of bright light.
<john_cephalopoda> pointfree: Oh, wow, that would be cool.
<SpeedEvil> It would.
<pointfree> :)
<john_cephalopoda> I thought about LCD creation. Not sure how hard that would be to do.
<john_cephalopoda> On macroscopic level, making LCDs is dead simple. Making tiny pixels for high-resolution LCDs would be a challenge though.
<pointfree> Great video on creating oleds by hand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZesXSJ0inBg
<pointfree> The cd/dvd label printing tray could be used to print on rigid surfaces such as ITO coated glass http://www.pabr.org/pcbprt/pcbprt.en.html
<SpeedEvil> e-ink advertisment film is in principle great for low res 'LCD' making.
<SpeedEvil> All you need is a transparent layer and a PCB.
<john_cephalopoda> Wow, 90V at high frequency.
<SpeedEvil> Of course, they won't sell you it
* pointfree wouldn't know how to scale inkjet manufacturing from his apartment to higher volumes.
<SpeedEvil> more inkjets!
<pointfree> I could set up an inkjet printer with a bagel shop conveyor belt toaster for curing in a u-haul storage locker. A secret lights-out turnkey fab.
<qu1j0t3> PRIMER
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<john_cephalopoda> Heh, a mobile lab in a camping bus.
<john_cephalopoda> Breaking MEMS
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<Noxz> pointfree, I'm big into graphene, but more pristine than rGO
<Noxz> graphene at a few layers thick is translucent, and a better conductivity than ITO iirc
<Noxz> the 'issue' is the control of the number of layers
<Noxz> and scaling up
<Noxz> pointfree, the deposition method I am most interested in at the moment is known as Langmuir Films
<Noxz> I love the idea of inkjet printing it though
<Noxz> wow, only $250 USD for a simple cutting machine.. havent really looked at them at all
<Noxz> the resolution of 300dpi on it would equate to under 0.1mm resolution, which could certainly be good enough for experimentation at a certain scale.. our tolerances are currently ~0.03mm on the low end, and we're only at week three, so only going to get smaller and smaller
<pointfree> Noxz: Interesting. Langmuir films are entirely new to me.
<pointfree> Graphene is indeed a strong contender to replace ITO. I'm also considering it because it's more flexible than ITO so it could go around the drums of a printer.
<Noxz> I eventually got a book on langmuir stuff, still working through it
<Noxz> I didnt know the name for a while, took so long to discover the name of what some scientists were doing in a certain paper
<Noxz> I am interested in doing a continuous thin film of graphene (pristine) deposited onto a very thin flexible plastic
<Noxz> the goal is (super)capacitor
<Noxz> also, I attempted the yellow etch resistant ink in some epsom printer as a direct-write pcb method before.. I left it behind when I moved 5 years ago and havent revisited it.. I was seemingly making okay progress though
<pointfree> *not sure that I can get a thin enough deposition of graphene/graphite with an inkjet printer.
<Noxz> you have to come up with the method to do it..
<Noxz> afaik it doesnt currently exist, but people's layers of graphene are hilariously large all the time
<Noxz> near pure black/gray
<pointfree> Noxz: How about the adhesive tape method? The adhesive could go on a drum.
<Noxz> no way, that is not scalable
<Noxz> nor do I think it can be continuous
<Noxz> I am somewhat head-strong about the method I am pushing towards though, so slight bias
<pointfree> posting for posterity: "Adhesive tape exfoliation - Why it works for graphene" http://orbit.dtu.dk/files/127822902/Graphene11BW.pdf
<Noxz> the interesting part is when you try to energize graphene in the perpendicular plane it kinda sucks
<Noxz> higher resistance etc
<Noxz> if you are able to energize it parallel to the plane it is much better
<Noxz> but, forming vertical low "layer" sheets is hard
<superkuh> tldr; even the best graphene suppliers will have 60% purity at best and almost never under 4 layers thick.
<Noxz> heh
<pointfree> self-assembly is another possibility https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nn5028642?journalCode=ancac3
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