<pinbot>
now pinning /ipfs/QmWbEAcGz2KWEpkRcLaVX2KMitohmNMxiKxshUsYcsc62G
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<pinbot>
[host 3] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmWbEAcGz2KWEpkRcLaVX2KMitohmNMxiKxshUsYcsc62G: Post http://[fc4e:5427:3cd0:cc4c:4770:25bb:a682:d06c]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=%2Fipfs%2FQmWbEAcGz2KWEpkRcLaVX2KMitohmNMxiKxshUsYcsc62G&enc=json&r=true&stream-channels=true: dial tcp [fc4e:5427:3cd0:cc4c:4770:25bb:a682:d06c]:5001: connection timed out
<pinbot>
now pinning /ipfs/QmeyrsAMNmU5oXEkLth8YqAiPsZubhg4ou8WbaR5Pj2E8F
<jbenet>
!befriend wking
<jbenet>
ah not sure that will work, may not be re-deployed yet
<pinbot>
[host 3] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmeyrsAMNmU5oXEkLth8YqAiPsZubhg4ou8WbaR5Pj2E8F: Post http://[fc4e:5427:3cd0:cc4c:4770:25bb:a682:d06c]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=%2Fipfs%2FQmeyrsAMNmU5oXEkLth8YqAiPsZubhg4ou8WbaR5Pj2E8F&enc=json&r=true&stream-channels=true: dial tcp [fc4e:5427:3cd0:cc4c:4770:25bb:a682:d06c]:5001: connection timed out
<whyrusleeping>
this one: 'mfs read /files/foo/bar/baz | sed -i s/l/r | mfs write /files/foo/bar/baz' you cant really do in linux
<whyrusleeping>
cat X | blah blah > X
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<whyrusleeping>
what do you expect to happen with 'mfs rm -rf /' ?
<jbenet>
linux can with sponge.
<jbenet>
(and minus the -i in sed)
<whyrusleeping>
sponge?
<jbenet>
with "mfs rm -rf /" i expect all roots to be removed, i.e. really just setting / to the null dir
<jbenet>
sponge buffers stdin, then outputs to stdout
<jbenet>
a way to get those same file edits to work-- the reason it doesnt work is efficient unix piping
<whyrusleeping>
oh, thats totally a hack...
<jbenet>
why, it makes sense.
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<jbenet>
the limitation is not there as a feature, it's there by consequence of piping efficiency. the first line may flush through to be written before the second one is read.
<whyrusleeping>
what if: "cat X | sed s/a/biggerthana/g > X"
<whyrusleeping>
the write pointer will go faster than the read pointer
<whyrusleeping>
unless youre saying "i know this doesnt work, but it would be cool if it did"
<whyrusleeping>
at which point i agree
<jbenet>
what do you mean it doesn't work for us? we use immutable references, the written-to file is different.
<jbenet>
(like copy-on-write)
<whyrusleeping>
right. okay
<jbenet>
(it may be an implementation difficulty, and in that case dont worry about it)
<jbenet>
(but we shouldnt have any problems with it
<jbenet>
(from a model perspective)
<jbenet>
whyrusleeping: more thoughts on mountpoints? i need to sleep soon
<whyrusleeping>
jbenet: hrm... i'm justnot sure about doing away with the create command
<whyrusleeping>
doing 'ipfs mkdir /blah' lacks the context of what blah is
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<jbenet>
what do you mean by "context of what blah is"
<whyrusleeping>
like, what type of mountpoint is it?
<jbenet>
think unix or 9p, 1 FS.
<jbenet>
or the web. or ipfs. 1 fs. for everything
<jbenet>
you get awesome stuff dropping out of that, like `mfs cp /ipfs/<hash>/put /files/it/here`
<whyrusleeping>
mehhhhhh, so much rewriting now....
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<whyrusleeping>
go to sleep
<jbenet>
is that the biggest concern? like, orthogonal to impl, if you think having multiple fses is the right thing, it may be correct, i want to know why though, and so far i'm not convinced-- it seems an implementation niceness that makes life more difficult on the user.
<whyrusleeping>
i just think the complexity of the API is going to go up a lot
<jbenet>
for the user? its going down, many less calls to reason about.
<whyrusleeping>
less calls? doing the same thing i have been doing becomes a bit more difficult
<jbenet>
as a user? example?
<whyrusleeping>
i want to take a directory structure QmMyThings
<whyrusleeping>
and write some new files into it, move things around
<whyrusleeping>
maybe delete a file in it
<whyrusleeping>
and then get the resultant hash
<jbenet>
ok, show me your way
<jbenet>
in mfs calls.
<whyrusleeping>
mfs create myfs -r QmMyThings
<whyrusleeping>
echo "new stuff" | mfs write /myfs/newfile
<whyrusleeping>
mfs rm /myfs/things
<whyrusleeping>
mfs myfs # spits out final hash
<whyrusleeping>
mfs close/rm /myfs
<jbenet>
mfs cp /ipfs/QmMyThings /files/myfs
<jbenet>
echo "new stuff" | mfs write /files/myfs/newfile
<jbenet>
mfs rm /files/myfs/things
<jbenet>
mfs hash /files/myfs # or mfs stat --hash /files/myfs
<jbenet>
mfs rm -rf /files/myfs
<lilsheep>
HI ALL. I am poking around with the webui. What's an example hash or path I can use?
<jbenet>
(the /files prefix being a separate part, can look at it removed:)
<jbenet>
mfs cp /ipfs/QmMyThings /myfs
<jbenet>
echo "new stuff" | mfs write /myfs/newfile
<jbenet>
mfs rm /myfs/things
<jbenet>
mfs hash /myfs # or mfs stat --hash /myfs
<jbenet>
mfs rm -rf /myfs
<jbenet>
lilsheep: maybe see the webui's hash itself
<jbenet>
it has images and html and js and stuff. good representative graph
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<lilsheep>
where can I find that?
<jbenet>
whyrusleeping your case does things with 5 commands, one of which is special cased (create). my case does the same thing with 4 cmds. (the equivalent one being used for "put" as well. if you had a put there, mine would be even less.
<jbenet>
lilsheep: when you go to localhost:5001/webui it redirects to a hash
* zignig
declares new commands
<zignig>
ipfs merge and ipfs overlay
<zignig>
do it do it now , GET TO THE CHOPPER.
<jbenet>
(and hash or stat being a convenience)
<jbenet>
zignig what do they each do?
<lilsheep>
jbenet: I don't see that! It has several empty fields!
<jbenet>
lilsheep screenshot?
<zignig>
jbenet: merge will take two hashes , and give you the conficts if any.
<whyrusleeping>
jbenet: its the same number of commands?
<zignig>
overlay will splat one hash on top of the other.
<jbenet>
whyrusleeping: same number of issued commands, lower number of "commands used". (i.e. the interface shrinks, less tools to learn)
<jbenet>
zignig nice, i like.
* zignig
has been thinking about a ipfs overlay proxy.
<jbenet>
zignig oh i've always wanted this. i guess cp a/* b/. does overlay.
<lilsheep>
I tried that! I get webpage not available!
<lilsheep>
ohh
<lilsheep>
I didn't get go ifs
<lilsheep>
: D I'll do that tie
<jbenet>
if it doesnt load you're not connected to the network, the first time it downloads it
<zignig>
whyrusleeping: i'm finally back on dry land , athough it is still moving.
<jbenet>
lilsheep: npm install -g go-ipfs@latest
<whyrusleeping>
zignig: uh oh
<zignig>
weird..... bet a few days i'm told.
<zignig>
*but
<jbenet>
whyrusleeping: maybe happiness: we can do it my way for "ipfs files" and your way for "ipfs mfs" and see which one people find more intuitive empirically.
<jbenet>
that way we pick the best thing
<jbenet>
we can deprecate one if we feel the need to, or break it up into its own binary. or leave both
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<jbenet>
wtf switzerland. it's 7:00 dont ring massive church bells that sound across the city
<jbenet>
no wonder everything's dead by 8pm
<zignig>
jbenet: time is an illusion , lunch time doubly so.
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<zignig>
been thinking about shared hashes too... need a way to trust other nodes.
<zignig>
ie: does the supermagority of my trusted node agree on an <stuff> has vis ipfs.
<zignig>
*has/has , meh even my typing is wobbly.
<zignig>
*hash
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* zignig
wants a meta block on "ipfs id" , so you can declare thing that your node is interested in. JSON blob FTW.
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<lilsheep>
hello all. how is it possible to make distributed web apps using this?
<lilsheep>
(of I wouldn't make one yet, since it's new) : D
<lilsheep>
but what's the idea behind it
<lilsheep>
* watching video now * lol
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<cryptix>
gmornung
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<dawuud>
morgen
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<jimki>
oh jbenet in CH.. talks in Zurich? when & where?
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<davidar>
zignig: ipfs merge: yes!
<davidar>
especially if it's possible to do efficiently with lots of shared directories
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<davidar>
I really have a knack for arriving after everyone's left...
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<lgierth>
meh that one again... :/
<lgierth>
oh hey i was somewhere in the backlog, nevermind
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<voxelot>
ping ianopolous
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<daviddias>
whyrusleeping: around?
<jamescarlyle>
anyone care to help with a noob question on ipfs
<ReactorScram>
jamescarlyle: depends on the question
<jamescarlyle>
:) of course. I've heard that it would be possible to build a blockchain on ipfs - I was wondering what this would look like, and if anyone had prototyped it
<ReactorScram>
Well IPFS has some structures similar to Git / blockchains where the latest data can point to older data. But you'd still have to agree on where the newest block will be
<ReactorScram>
I'm curious what DB Bitcoin uses to store the blockchain because it took absurd amount of RAM last time I tried it
<jamescarlyle>
ok, so e.g. each file object could contain a serialised model that contained a pointer to the hash of the previous object - is that what you mean?
<ReactorScram>
Yeah. That's how blockchains work, right?
<jamescarlyle>
right, basically
<jamescarlyle>
and my understanding (and from looking at the ipfs api) is that ipfs objects are immutable
<ReactorScram>
Yeah. The lowest level of IPFS is that immutable store, which can't be updated and doesn't do any messaging, so you can't get consensus there but you can store the chain
<jamescarlyle>
so earlier blocks/documents could not be overwritten by the api. right. thanks for the clarification
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<ReactorScram>
YEah it' the same as a torrent / Git repo. The same hash will always download the same data, unless someone cracks the hash algo and there's a collision
<jamescarlyle>
if i can ask one further question, when a directory of files is added to ipfs, and each file (as well as the directory/folder itself) has a hash, is it possible to substitute out one of the files in the folder? Or is the folder structure itself immutable at the point of adding?
<ReactorScram>
The folder's hash is based on the hashes of each file, and the whol thing is immutable. The IPFS layer proper is totally immutable
<ReactorScram>
But you can upload a new folder with one file changed, and it will deduplicate and use the old files if they are the same
<ReactorScram>
Then you'll have two folder hashes
<jamescarlyle>
sure, that makes sense. perfect
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<ReactorScram>
I'd like to have an IPFS music player but I'm a little wary of putting my collection on IPFS since I might not have proof that I bought all of it
<ReactorScram>
And then somehow have shared playlists, and you can send a playlist to your friend and it will lazily download all the tracks, deduplicated, from one hash
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<ReactorScram>
I was wondering at one point if multiple client applications share an IPFS daemon on one computer, how they can agree when to unpin something
<jamescarlyle>
that's one of the advantages that is extolled :)
<ReactorScram>
jamescarlyle: I think if IPFS had some "killer app" like that it could get a lot of attention fast
<ReactorScram>
They're working with the Internet archiving project, right? That's pretty good
<jamescarlyle>
yes, I suspect lots of people are looking at it thinking 'that's cool', and just figuring out what to do with it
<jamescarlyle>
like me :)
<ReactorScram>
I've had it installed a few months but not running because there was some memory leak and I haven't found a use for it
<jamescarlyle>
in my case, I'm interested in creating a durable set of artefacts to support identity, with a contract running on ethereum
<ReactorScram>
I could put my games on it but it's not that different from putting them on my HTTP server
<jamescarlyle>
had earlier asked if anyone had built a ipfs/ ethereum bridge
<ReactorScram>
artifacts to support identity?
<jamescarlyle>
yes
<voxelot>
jamescarlyle, eris industries built a "bridge" between ethereum and ipfs
<voxelot>
but i don't think they are active with that project anymore
<voxelot>
really if you have a webserver running javascript you can "bridge" ethereum and ipfs htere
<jamescarlyle>
thanks, I know Eris is active with IPFS
<jamescarlyle>
yes, that is what I was going to do via nodejs
<jamescarlyle>
just wondering if a lib already supported both (I'm lazy ;)
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<jamescarlyle>
ipfs looks also useful/interesting within a private network - anyone using it like that?
<jamescarlyle>
also having a problem with osxfuse, if anyone has experience
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<jamescarlyle>
get the following error : Error: config key invalid: DontCheckOSXFUSE %!s(bool=true)
<jamescarlyle>
i've looked in the config file, and the config line looks normal: "DontCheckOSXFUSE": true,
<jamescarlyle>
(i want to mount /ipfs, as per installation instructions)
<ReactorScram>
Private IFPS would be amazing for my company for software updates / Git sharing on LAN but I don't know if anyone's working on it
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<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: hey are you around?
<daviddias>
dignifiedquire: hey, I am :)
<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: how is life? did you enjoy cccamp?
<daviddias>
Life is good. CCC was really really great :). What about yourself?
<dignifiedquire>
life is good, but I missed ccc :(
<dignifiedquire>
I acutally managed to organize everything so I could go in the end, but then the tickets were sold out
<daviddias>
yeah, it is pretty crazy how they manage to sell almost 5000 tickets
<daviddias>
sad you couldn't go, I was hoping to catch up with you there
<dignifiedquire>
yeah would have been great, but can’t have everything, we’ll meet again ;)
<daviddias>
for sure :)
<dignifiedquire>
I was just pondering who I might contribute to ipfs next, and as much as I enjoy coding node my other area of expertise is design and ui work and I feel ipfs could use some love in that area
<dignifiedquire>
and so I wanted to get an idea what the plans and thoughts are around that area
<daviddias>
Oh, nice :) so we could actually use some help getting our electron app looking nicer
<dignifiedquire>
oh I see it is written in react, that’s nice :)
<daviddias>
The repo is GitHub.com/ipfs/electron-app
<daviddias>
Oh you already found it :)
<dignifiedquire>
(I’ve spent the last half year creating a large react dashboard from scratch)
<dignifiedquire>
(at work, not alone)
<daviddias>
jbenet: has some mockups of what information should be displayed, but we are open to suggestions
<daviddias>
Nice!
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<daviddias>
Take a look at the 'settings' PR
<daviddias>
It has some newer features and what is missing from merging is really making it look better
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<dignifiedquire>
are those mockups around somewhere?
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<daviddias>
They are in one of the issues, I'm trying to find them ( answering in a phone )
<dignifiedquire>
is it normal that “npm start” just hangs (or maybe takes a long time) the first time it’s run?
<daviddias>
Yep that one :)
<daviddias>
It takes a bit of time
<dignifiedquire>
k
<dignifiedquire>
what’s so slow?
<daviddias>
Electron builder has to do its thing
<dignifiedquire>
right
<dignifiedquire>
native always sucks..
<dignifiedquire>
even with Electron ;)
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<dignifiedquire>
I’ll try and get this running, and open up Photoshop later/tomorrow and keep you posted on my crazy ideas, if you want to see some stuff I’ve done recently: either https://codio.com/ (whole site + 95% of the product) and https://github.com/elixir-lang/ex_doc/issues/275
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<daviddias>
Will look in more detail later. But yes, keep ideas coming. electron-app is a sweet way for new users to try IPFS, it even has some drag and drop features, it is very convenient
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<daviddias>
Thank you :)
<whyrusleeping>
jbenet: you around?
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<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: maybe I’m stupid, but I doesn’t open anything even after waiting > 10min, do I need open sth manual?
<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: oh god, I didn’t realize it was already open -.-
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<ianopolous>
hey voxelot
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<voxelot>
hey, nice api bindings. did you get add working yet?
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<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: lots of react unhappiness when running your branch ;)
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<whyrusleeping>
gendale_: if you have any more questions about in depth setup of the stuff, lgierth is the one to talk to
<gendale_>
awesome. much obliged
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<daviddias>
sorry for being unavailable for a while, dignifiedquire
<daviddias>
dignifiedquire: yep, the electron-app is a tray application
<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: no worries
<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: yeah.. I was waiting for a window to open, but nothing happend :D until I looked at my tray xD
<daviddias>
it takes a bit to load, specially each time you 'build it' again, but it should be a couple of mins tops
<daviddias>
it would pop a window if it didn't detect an IPFS node in your machine, as a first step for new users
<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: are you set on a white background (thinking about starts and space and doing something with a dark background)
<daviddias>
but, yeah, we need to improve the UX a lot :)
<daviddias>
so glad you are available to help us on that
<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: step by step :)
<daviddias>
dignifiedquire: the design isn't set in stone at all. The white background is just because it is simple, clean and easy to make
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<daviddias>
maybe a cool think would be to have the same effect as the globe in webiui
<daviddias>
webui*
<daviddias>
where the user can pick if it wants a dark globe or a colored one
<daviddias>
for us the most important is to communicate effectively how the IPFS node is doing, the amount of storage used, a way to access the files we uploaded using it, knowing how much bandwidth it is consuming
<daviddias>
because that will also be good to have when we test the IPFS node in more hard network scenarios
<dignifiedquire>
makes sense yes
<dignifiedquire>
so the idea is to add different metrics to this view overt
<dignifiedquire>
*overtime
<daviddias>
yes yes :)
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<dignifiedquire>
is the peers data tracked over time at the moment, or is that only a fixed value that is coming in?
<jbenet>
mildred: use case for JSON (cbor) that is not LD: much easier data model for people
<jbenet>
jamescarlyle: yes you can make blockchains on ipfs. take a look at "ipfs object --help"
<jbenet>
ReactorScram: on audio player -- you just need encrypted objects then?
<jbenet>
ReactorScram: tell me more about "Private IFPS would be amazing for my company " -- we can make this for you in a day. (need to add a shared key in the connection)
<jbenet>
dignifiedquire please help with electron app-- i need to make it prettier but if you can do that that would be huge
<jbenet>
whyrusleeping i'm around now.
<dignifiedquire>
jbenet: Photoshop is already open :)
<dignifiedquire>
jbenet: any special wishes?
<ReactorScram>
jbenet: Well I envision having the files be in the clear, so anyone else can download a song from me, but this is technically illegal
<jbenet>
dignifiedquire: ah mocking things up?
<ReactorScram>
jbenet: For private IPFS, I just think it would be a convenient way to keep track of all the DLLs and stuff I build and when we have to upgrade them on clients' computers. I'd have to somehow convince the other half of the team, who are putting out an installer because their upgrades require database scripts to run
<jbenet>
ReactorScram sorry, we dont support piracy. please take a look at out code of conduct.
<dignifiedquire>
jbenet: of course, if I do something like that I do it properly, besides I want some feedback first before I code sth up
<stick`>
jbenet: i am building a Dockerfile
<ReactorScram>
I understand
<jbenet>
dignifiedquire sweet
<jbenet>
ReactorScram: yeah can totally do it. are you on windows? does it work well??
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] tv42 created fuse-fix-1 (+3 new commits): http://git.io/vGoPn
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/fuse-fix-1 c0edb63 Tommi Virtanen: fuse/readonly: Fix importer.BuildTrickleDagFromReader call...
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/fuse-fix-1 4be9bd1 Tommi Virtanen: fuse/ipns, fuse/readonly: Let the fuse library set defaults for Attr...
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/fuse-fix-1 44757b6 Tommi Virtanen: fuse/ipns: Only change file size in Setattr if asked to...
<ReactorScram>
jbenet: The program my company makes is for Windows. Does what work well?
<ReactorScram>
jbenet: I haven't tested it extensively. I was trying to make a game for Windows with IPFS back in April and haven't really tried anything since then
<ReactorScram>
Encrypting the music would be a good idea, because I was trying to figure out how to listen to music at work that I own, without turning my work laptop into a seedbox
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<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: jbenet some very rough ideas http://grab.by/K4Ao
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<jbenet>
dignifiedquire: yes. so much yes.
<jbenet>
dignifiedquire: did you try some of the colors in ipfs.io ? like that dark blue?
<dignifiedquire>
jbenet: not yet
<jbenet>
(purple isnt really a color in our scheme yet, and may not be worth adding more as recognition is boosted a lot by color)
<dignifiedquire>
jbenet: that does make sense, though I feel that the current “ice” color is slightly problematic, will try something more in the blue area
<daviddias>
(at least I really like those blues, but well, that is just my opinion)
<jbenet>
dignifiedquire: i dont like the colors of the webui that much either.
<dignifiedquire>
jbenet: we’ll work on that :)
<lgierth>
gendale_: hey. that'd be ubuntu 14.04, i.e. still upstart
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<jbenet>
dignifiedquire: whats wrong with the ice color? can make it a bit darker. i want to use that teal/turquoise/light-blue-green because it's a color seldom used and it's way easier to get recognizability in a sea of colored logos. this stuff matters (it's why people are going for strong yellows + dark blues atm, there's a lack of them.
<jbenet>
(that=some*)
<jbenet>
but it also should _look good_
<jbenet>
:)
<jbenet>
im no designer
<dignifiedquire>
jbenet: I agree it is seldomly used, but my feeling is that it is too weak (pretty washed out/too little contrast) to stand out
<jbenet>
yeah PRs welcome.
<dignifiedquire>
it might be, because of the way the logo is made up at the moment, with the borders having too little contrast to the side fill
<jbenet>
we can hire a designer to help us make it look good too
<dignifiedquire>
great, will continue tomorrow :) and think about the logo
<jbenet>
dignifiedquire
<dignifiedquire>
lol (the link just loaded ;) )
<jbenet>
dignifiedquire that's the last part we need to ship electron-app to users. then it's packaging + dist.
<jbenet>
haha i turned my daemon on
<dignifiedquire>
no pressure then
<jbenet>
it had been off
<jbenet>
sweet!
<jbenet>
thanks so much!
<jbenet>
(that img was about me, who made the logo)
<dignifiedquire>
happy to help :) lets see what the future brings
<dignifiedquire>
gn8
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<daviddias>
thank you dignifiedquire :)
<whyrusleeping>
jbenet: i'm changing mfs to move towards a single root
<whyrusleeping>
i want to ask you what you think on one thing though:
<whyrusleeping>
i'm using unix semantics for mounts, where you mount over an existing directory
<jbenet>
so it has to exist before?
<whyrusleeping>
yeap
<jbenet>
(i think following unix semantics is right, typically)
<jbenet>
i think this is so that you can set permissions/modes on it preserved whether mounted or not
<jbenet>
like a placeholder
<whyrusleeping>
right
<whyrusleeping>
so right now, if you mount over a dir, it doesnt change anything on the dag
<jbenet>
not sure i understand the implications of that
<whyrusleeping>
me neither
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] jbenet deleted fuse-fix-1 at 44757b6: http://git.io/vGob6
<whyrusleeping>
basically, if i have DAG X, that is a unixfs directory structure
<whyrusleeping>
and i mount over X/a/b
<whyrusleeping>
the root 'X' doesnt actually change
<whyrusleeping>
so you can modify whatever you want inside X/a/b/... and X will not be any different
<whyrusleeping>
i feel like theres something that could change there, but it can always change later
<jbenet>
hmmmmmm no i dont like that at all. violates my expectations of a merkledag.
<whyrusleeping>
think of X as your filesystem, if you mount something like sshfs on it, and change things inside of that, your filesystem remains completely untouched
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<whyrusleeping>
all ive done is replicate unix semantics, not necessarily what we want
<whyrusleeping>
(or maybe it is? idk)
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] tv42 created p2p-filter-race (+1 new commit): http://git.io/vGoAC
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/p2p-filter-race 64f6dfd Tommi Virtanen: p2p/net/filter: Guard with a mutex...
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] tv42 force-pushed p2p-filter-race from 64f6dfd to a8ca3bc: http://git.io/vGoAu
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/p2p-filter-race a8ca3bc Tommi Virtanen: p2p/net/filter: Guard with a mutex...