<buzzmarshall>
in this case was Amlogics Server that had support software onit
<emOne>
surely
<buzzmarshall>
i quess it comes down to how you look at it
<emOne>
was it leaked?
<emOne>
accidentally
<buzzmarshall>
to me their not but to be honest they only really went about selling Android support and were never obligated to help the linux guys
<buzzmarshall>
but they are definately gaining from it tho
<emOne>
I honestly had a difficult time choosing an arm chip
<emOne>
I still don't understand what the best arm chip is
<emOne>
rockchip , broadcom, amlogic
<buzzmarshall>
honestly their all pretty much the same within the product lines they are competing in
<emOne>
allwinner?
<buzzmarshall>
its arm as well
<buzzmarshall>
broadcom as well
<emOne>
so wait back to u-boot
<buzzmarshall>
Arm makes a bunch of cores and pretty much everyone uses them
<buzzmarshall>
k
<buzzmarshall>
so once the reset goes and finds the beginning of the u-boot code because u-boot is put in that known spot
<buzzmarshall>
it will load the 1st little piece into the s905 internal ram and run it
<emOne>
so far so good
<buzzmarshall>
that 1st little piece will tell it to go and get the next little piece and this time load it into the main boards sram
<emOne>
the second stage bootloader?
<buzzmarshall>
theres a distinction between internal ram in the S905 and external ram
<buzzmarshall>
yes
<emOne>
ok
<emOne>
and here is where it loads up all that device tree dtb magic up I guess
<buzzmarshall>
yes
* emOne
my head explodes
<buzzmarshall>
the device tree contains a bunch of info that tell it were to find a lot of things
<emOne>
just where?
<emOne>
so the stuff is always in the kernel
<emOne>
?
<buzzmarshall>
things like where to load the internal flash
<emOne>
but it just needs to know where to find it?
<buzzmarshall>
right
<emOne>
ohhh
<emOne>
I thought there was an issue of the kernel becoming too big or something
<emOne>
so ok I understand
<buzzmarshall>
typically with a read only os like this everything gets loaded into the devices sram
<buzzmarshall>
and runs out of there
<buzzmarshall>
part of what uboot does is tell the s905 where everything is located in memory
<emOne>
including the wifi+bt chip :)
<buzzmarshall>
ya...uboot will read in the dtb file and use it to initialize the system and then eventually start up the kernel
<buzzmarshall>
that way by the time the kernels running most things should be now known
<buzzmarshall>
uboot has a environment that it runs in while working
<buzzmarshall>
that environment can be altered which can do a bunch of things including altering the dtb data and other things
<buzzmarshall>
typically a Android box when it boots goes thru a check that if not set will just carry on and startup Android
<buzzmarshall>
but if you know about that check and how to get to it you can alter what uboot does
<buzzmarshall>
thats how the current bootloaders get installed
<emOne>
aha
<buzzmarshall>
they use what was learned along time ago from some Amlogic tools how to use a script to set the box to stop and load from external memory
<emOne>
why is this stuff not documnted?
<buzzmarshall>
theres a few ways of getting into the box but Amlogics tools opened the door for a few originally
<emOne>
cool
<buzzmarshall>
Stane was one of the 1st that talked about years ago
<emOne>
it sounds like the amlogic stuff including uboot were never supposed to be public
<buzzmarshall>
Amlogic has a couple of tools that got out into the public because they didn't properly lockup one on their ftp servers and it got found
<emOne>
cool
<buzzmarshall>
some of us because of other projects knew how the boot loader had to work and got in without using the script
<buzzmarshall>
that never was public tho as far as i know
<buzzmarshall>
part of that hook tho had to be there because Android itself needed a recovery method
<emOne>
yes
<buzzmarshall>
so hopefully some of my babble will help you see what the dtb and idea behind getting to mainstream will work
<emOne>
a bricked device wouldn't be so nice for the companies
<buzzmarshall>
hopefully ive not confused you more
<emOne>
hehh not at all
<emOne>
I will need to sleep on it I think
<emOne>
it makes sense yes
<emOne>
but it doesn't quite make sense why the arm world has devices and chips all in different locations
<emOne>
to say an x86 motherboard
<buzzmarshall>
ya like most devices theres usually a way to try and fix things software wise
<buzzmarshall>
in some ways all that know how floating around tho tends to help people screw up and brick their devices
<emOne>
but really
<buzzmarshall>
seeing as most android boxes came with a specific version of Android and the recovery.bin file is specifically matched to the device it leads to alot of trouble
<buzzmarshall>
so when everyone starts messing with the bootloader scripts trying to install it
<buzzmarshall>
if its not done right can lead to mismatch in the recovery bin and the actual device
<buzzmarshall>
thats why in alot of cases people get messed up
<emOne>
got it
<buzzmarshall>
because without the right matched sets they can't restore the device
<buzzmarshall>
me on the other hand have always hated Android on the device and always went into it with the intention of totally removing Android never worried about that
<buzzmarshall>
the matching recovery thing is really only pertinent if your trying to keep Android running on the box as well
<buzzmarshall>
its signed and needs to pass the test
<buzzmarshall>
those little bins are part of the particular u-boot built for that box
<buzzmarshall>
as i said u-boot can be built modular which is what in our case it is
<emOne>
so youre saying it is not a probkem
<buzzmarshall>
the arm trusted platform bin files are part of the system
<emOne>
if I want to have android gone?
<buzzmarshall>
if i am just running Linux on the device i don't need to worry about signing
<buzzmarshall>
in the case of Android its signed
<emOne>
oh
<buzzmarshall>
so that test needs to pass
<emOne>
yes
<buzzmarshall>
take what i say with a grain of sand tho as there are some that don't but in general terms it does
<emOne>
got it
<buzzmarshall>
technically if the vendor wanted they could lockup the bootloader
<buzzmarshall>
at this point they don't
<emOne>
hehe
<emOne>
I hope not
<emOne>
but it would be backed into the arm chip itself I guess
<emOne>
and also it would be hacked eventually
<emOne>
but I guess it could be difficult
<buzzmarshall>
actually theres a couple logic flaws in one of the manufactures that i will leave nameless and its not that hard to get around the lock
<emOne>
baked
<emOne>
good!
<emOne>
I didn't really realise that arm was supposed to be so locked down
<buzzmarshall>
what box you playing with?
<emOne>
originally it wasn't supposed to be in the beginning
<emOne>
but it has become this way
<emOne>
buzzmarshall: the a95x f3
<buzzmarshall>
its not so much that they have to its more something they need to provide and support for someone that wants it
<buzzmarshall>
as good as the open source has become these days theres still a few areas that will always stay propriatary based on the nature of their business model
<buzzmarshall>
gpu's and secure devices are two big ones
<emOne>
what box are you currently using?
<emOne>
buzzmarshall: ?
<buzzmarshall>
ive got dozen's that i mess with but mostly for everyday use a bunch of S812's running my own software
<emOne>
cool
<buzzmarshall>
i use it with current kodi
<emOne>
not libreelec?
<buzzmarshall>
ive got about 4 around the house that everyone use tied into a storage network here
<buzzmarshall>
but i develop on a bunch of things
<emOne>
that is nice
<buzzmarshall>
n2 is nice and for rockchip ive got rockpro64
<emOne>
ahh yes the n2 is really nice
<emOne>
I wanted to buy one
<buzzmarshall>
about the only thing ive not looked at is the newer S905's
<emOne>
it is time you look at it buzzmarshall
<emOne>
hehe
<buzzmarshall>
ive got a few n2's in a rack kinda like a blade setup that ive been working on and the same for the Rock's
<emOne>
I wanted to get a rk3318 device
<emOne>
but no one seems to have booted a linux os on it
<buzzmarshall>
the n2's i am actually using to drive a 4 color printer i built and am designing motor drivers for
<emOne>
maybe no one really tried
<buzzmarshall>
ya that could be
<emOne>
4 color printer! cool!
<buzzmarshall>
i find usually it takes someone that has the device that wants to build software for the device before it really gets out in the public
<buzzmarshall>
ya its a big bastard
<buzzmarshall>
lol
<buzzmarshall>
got bored about a year ago and decided to build something
<emOne>
heheheh
<emOne>
cool
<emOne>
how is the print quality?
<buzzmarshall>
just never came across any electronics that could handle 4 color extruders
<buzzmarshall>
its getting better but its typical to the filament type of printers
<buzzmarshall>
its also got a high speed milling head and a small laser i can interchange
<emOne>
wow nice
<buzzmarshall>
i built it to be able to do double sided pcb
<emOne>
nice
<emOne>
does it work?
<buzzmarshall>
getting to old to be exposing and etching and wanted to try something different
<buzzmarshall>
ya not bad and once i get the motor control a bit tigher is definately ok for what i need to do
<emOne>
I can only imagine
<emOne>
that is amazing
<buzzmarshall>
i like taking things apart and building crap so it keeps me busy
<emOne>
buzzmarshall is secretly making a time machine
* emOne
hides
<buzzmarshall>
lol
<emOne>
:D
<buzzmarshall>
oh... ya i run LE as well
<emOne>
I am not a big fan of single board computers btw
<emOne>
I used to like raspberry pi a lot
<emOne>
I still do
<emOne>
it is great to mess around in
<buzzmarshall>
years ago back about when freaktab started there was nothing
<buzzmarshall>
other then android
<buzzmarshall>
i started on old rockchip and got linux on it
<emOne>
cool
<buzzmarshall>
then i seen OE and started following along with it
<emOne>
what device?
<buzzmarshall>
hm...old dual core
<emOne>
a tablet? a phone? a tv box?
<buzzmarshall>
rk3066 i think
<buzzmarshall>
android dongle thing
<emOne>
oh coool
<buzzmarshall>
another one i think was minix's 1st box
<buzzmarshall>
seems like enons ago
<emOne>
this was alll after the first raspberry pi right?
<emOne>
or way before?
<buzzmarshall>
before
<buzzmarshall>
back then not many were trying to put linux on them
<emOne>
that is amazing
<buzzmarshall>
ive been a linux user pretty much since day one and use it on everything
<emOne>
that is awesome
<emOne>
for me I never considered arm as an option to put linux on
<buzzmarshall>
on freaktab i found out about stephen and his OE project and started to follow it
<emOne>
cool
<buzzmarshall>
they were mostly focused on the wetek but at that point i was doing things the manual way when it comes to building the firmware
<buzzmarshall>
i had never seen a building framework like it or Openembedded
<buzzmarshall>
they kinda came along after i cut my teeth
<emOne>
heh
<buzzmarshall>
being old you tend to stick with what you know which is what i still currently do
<buzzmarshall>
lol
elektirnis has joined #libreelec
<emOne>
OE is great software
<buzzmarshall>
but when LE forked i followed and even to this day do build their sources as i like to see what everyones up to
<emOne>
I have seen many projects use OE for their os
<buzzmarshall>
for sure
<emOne>
hmm yes, you have openelec libre core now
<buzzmarshall>
for years i have built pretty much all of the OE/LE forks and its only recently that i decided to look at another way
elektrinis has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<buzzmarshall>
every different distro has its good points and bad but really are now kinda dependant on the device your trying to run on
<emOne>
yep
<buzzmarshall>
leads to these mine is better then yours social bs
<emOne>
core claim to be better for amlogix
<buzzmarshall>
i hate that crap
<emOne>
yees
<emOne>
I think theyre all really similiar anyway
<buzzmarshall>
its not really that one's better its more like who's supporting what
<buzzmarshall>
CE is a fork of LE and AE and EE are forks of CE
<buzzmarshall>
they all like to fight and claim their unique but true be told
<buzzmarshall>
if you compare files in their respective git's
<buzzmarshall>
pretty much all of them have way over 50% or more code from LE
<buzzmarshall>
lol
<emOne>
lol yes
<emOne>
they are all very similiar
<emOne>
core interestingly uses the android kernel
mETz has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<buzzmarshall>
there pretty much the same
<emOne>
yes
<buzzmarshall>
bout the only real differences in their respective Android version
<emOne>
theyre all linux + koi
<emOne>
kodi
<buzzmarshall>
is the revision and the different dtbs
<emOne>
yep
<buzzmarshall>
Amlogic designs and has fabed the SoC
<buzzmarshall>
they sell that soc to the downstream manufacturer
<buzzmarshall>
and for support provided what some call a canned version of Android
<emOne>
why a canned version of android?
<buzzmarshall>
the manufacturer takes the reference design board and then does all the ergonomics and creates the model
<buzzmarshall>
keeps things simple and makes it easier for Amlogic to create revenue streams from the support they offer
<buzzmarshall>
nothings free.
<buzzmarshall>
lol
<buzzmarshall>
plus its easier for Amlogic to control the roll out of new devices
<buzzmarshall>
and thats easy to see
<buzzmarshall>
thats why even at a Android level most boxes never had decent software to begin with
<buzzmarshall>
before any downstream manufacturer either contracts out for fixes and revisions or even takes it on inhouse
<buzzmarshall>
Amlogics pushing new SoC's
<buzzmarshall>
pretty much yearly or less
<emOne>
ok so it really is their fault for the buggy software
<emOne>
since they don't know any better either
<emOne>
I thought it was just that they werent telling
<buzzmarshall>
its a cash machine thats rolling down the road and no one wants it to stop and the public keeps enabling it by buying
<emOne>
but it looks like they themselves don't know how their stuff works
<emOne>
got it
<emOne>
that makes sense
<emOne>
geez
mETz has joined #libreelec
<buzzmarshall>
they dont need to as the fish keep coming up in the barrel
<buzzmarshall>
haha
<emOne>
lol yes
<emOne>
and on that bomb shell
<emOne>
good night
<buzzmarshall>
the linux thing is a whole big freebe for them
<buzzmarshall>
no probs... have a good one
<emOne>
I really need to get some sleep buzzmarshall
<emOne>
we will continue this convo though
<buzzmarshall>
anytime
<emOne>
but they should support their linux community^^^^
<emOne>
night night
<buzzmarshall>
take care nite
Gittun has quit [Quit: UPP]
_whitelogger has joined #libreelec
elektrinis has joined #libreelec
elektirnis has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
_whitelogger has joined #libreelec
khaoohs has joined #libreelec
khaoohs has quit [Client Quit]
khaoohs has joined #libreelec
circuit has joined #libreelec
mETz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
mETz has joined #libreelec
elektrinis has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
lacrimosa has joined #libreelec
speeedy has joined #libreelec
^elf^ has joined #libreelec
self has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
speeedy has quit [Quit: hey]
speeedy has joined #libreelec
buzzmarshall has quit [Quit: Leaving]
speeedy has quit [Quit: hey]
speeedy has joined #libreelec
andy-burns has joined #libreelec
<TheGallopingFox>
is there a way to install the 'expect' package on libreelec?
TheGallopingFox has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
TheGallopingFox has joined #libreelec
The_Coolest has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
TheGallopingFox has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
TheGallopingFox has joined #libreelec
<chewitt>
TheGallopingFox: nope, as there is no package manager. You'd have to recompile with an extra package. It would be the kind of thing to add to the network-tools bundle.
_whitelogger has joined #libreelec
andy-burns has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
gormenghast has joined #libreelec
Gittun has joined #libreelec
JohnDoe_71Rus has joined #libreelec
gouchi has joined #libreelec
The_Coolest has joined #libreelec
The_Coolest has quit [Client Quit]
The_Coolest has joined #libreelec
testman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
testman has joined #libreelec
kekePower has joined #libreelec
RaphGro has joined #libreelec
emOne has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
fraggle_ has joined #libreelec
TomTom has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
TomTom has joined #libreelec
fraggle_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
chewitt has quit [Quit: Zzz..]
chewitt has joined #libreelec
^elf^ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
lacrimosa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
fraggle_ has joined #libreelec
fraggle_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
fraggle_ has joined #libreelec
_whitelogger has joined #libreelec
emOne has joined #libreelec
psymin has joined #libreelec
mETz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
mETz has joined #libreelec
anxdpanic has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
anxdpanic has joined #libreelec
blackest_mamba has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in]
blackest_mamba has joined #libreelec
RaphGro has quit [Quit: Please remember your own message. It'll be read as soon as possible.]
buzzmarshall has joined #libreelec
fraggle_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
fraggle_ has joined #libreelec
fraggle_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
fraggle_ has joined #libreelec
andy-burns has joined #libreelec
elektirnis has joined #libreelec
circuit has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<chewitt>
emOne: I looked at the dtb .. and I need to find a box with Amlogic 4.9 kernel on to use 'dtc' to dump the contents of the file a readable format
<chewitt>
the reader needs to be matched to the kernel .. and I only have Linux 5.4/5.5 devices around
<chewitt>
so I see "bad magic" error, meaning it's not version matched
<Kocane>
is it possible to use the secondary hdmi port on the rpi4
<Kocane>
with libreelec that is
gouchi has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<emOne>
chewitt: thank you so much for your input
<emOne>
will any 4.9 kernel do form any amlogic box?
<emOne>
will any original 4.9 kernel do ?
<emOne>
from an amlogic box
<emOne>
chewitt: the same box I have runs android 9 with kernel 4.9.113
emOne has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
emOne has joined #libreelec
<emOne>
chewitt: let me know if I should dump anything from my a95x f3
<emOne>
it is kernel 4.9.113
<emOne>
so I guess that will do?
<emOne>
Could anyone explain to me what exactly is being asked of me?
<emOne>
I am happy to do it
JohnDoe_71Rus has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<emOne>
can someone copy and paste the above please? My IRC disconnected
JohnDoe_71Rus has joined #libreelec
<buzzmarshall>
hey you whats up?
lacrimosa has joined #libreelec
cage has quit [Quit: .]
mETz has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
cage has joined #libreelec
<emOne>
buzzmarshall: hello
<emOne>
buzzmarshall: could you do me a huge favor?
<emOne>
could you /msg me with the things chewitt has said
<emOne>
my IRC client crashed
mETz has joined #libreelec
JohnDoe_71Rus has quit [Quit: KVIrc KVIrc Aria 5.0.1, revision: 5.0.1+git-7433-0df9f22f2, build type: debug, sources date: 20160102, built on: 2019-12-08 19:19:20 UTC 5.0.1+git-7433-0df9f22f2 http://www.kvirc.net/]
buzzmarshall has quit [Quit: Leaving]
buzzmarshall has joined #libreelec
fraggle_boate_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
fraggle_boate has joined #libreelec
gouchi has joined #libreelec
gormenghast has quit [Quit: Leaving]
TomTom has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<Ommand>
emOne he hasn't said a word that you didn't already respond to
<emOne>
Ommand: my client crashed and I lost it
<emOne>
but thanks I recovered it already
lacrimosa has quit [Quit: Leaving]
gouchi has quit [Remote host closed the connection]