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<wens>
topi`: community support will always be bad until someone with spare time gets their hands on the new hardware
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<KotCzarny>
pine64 is also targetting xmas as the first shipment date
<KotCzarny>
it's a pity allwinner dropped real sata support in chip :/
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<wens>
too be honest, sata performance wasn't really good though
<wens>
i was getting 2x MB/s from an SSD...
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<KotCzarny>
wens, on which machine?
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<wens>
cubieboard 2
<KotCzarny>
weird
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<KotCzarny>
offtopic, anyone noticed on a10/a20 that playing audio sometimes fails? (ie. some quiet clicking is heard, pausing/unpausing player few times fixes things)
<KotCzarny>
(specifically lamobo-r1, but i expect hw and driver is the same, kernel 3.4.110)
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<tkaiser>
KotCzarny: Regarding SATA performance please have a look into the Wiki. SATA and "Sunxi devices as NAS" article
<KotCzarny>
tkaiser: yes, i've read it (and few other pages about sata and a20)
<KotCzarny>
and right now i'm using x86 via-c7 machine as nas, so, as long it isnt worse than that i'll be happy
<KotCzarny>
my r1 is running vertical, i've added few distances to screws (to leave the box a bit more open), downclocked it to 384..864 and 3.5" hdd will be powered via external cable
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<KotCzarny>
currently it draws ~0.5A, during kernel compile (-j2) it was maxing around 0.7..0.8A (and temp ~32..40C)
<tkaiser>
The R1 seems like a nice board when looking at specs. But performance -- especially network -- sucks and unless you use an external USB-Ethernet dongle you can't use it as a router.
<tkaiser>
We will never use it again. Too much hassles
<KotCzarny>
tkaiser: configured it, so far it works, but i've yet still to install it as intended, also, its for single user at home (me)
<KotCzarny>
and as long it's stable (not rebooting/corrupting) i'll be happy
<KotCzarny>
because really there is no alternative (2.5W of power, integrated switch, sata, dual core cpu) in the home price range
<KotCzarny>
in case outcome of my all tests goes negative, does cubietruck suffer the same ?
<tkaiser>
Cubietruck shows better network performance since there a RTL8211 is used and not the crappy broadcom switch the R1 uses.
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<tkaiser>
For your use case with a 3.5 HDD I would use a cheap TP-Link Gbit switch and any cheap A20 board that features SATA. Banana Pi (M1/M1+/Pro) for example. 9V PSU and a step-down converter and you get the same consumption but twice as much NAS performance
<tkaiser>
And it's cheaper also. YMMV :)
<KotCzarny>
and dont really need tip-top performance
<KotCzarny>
as long its stable
<KotCzarny>
~20-40M/s will be more than enough
<KotCzarny>
because that's what i have now with that c7 box
<tkaiser>
Well, again: The cheaper and faster solution is to use another attempt with separated SBC and switch.
<KotCzarny>
i stuck with 3.4 for now (because audio for a20 4.4 is not yet fully tested)
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<wens>
not fully tested?
<KotCzarny>
at least in armbian
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<tkaiser>
With mainline kernel we'll be able to use UAS http://linux-sunxi.org/USB/UAS and btrfs (transparent filesystem compression, end-to-end data integrity, intelligent RAID-1)
<wens>
ok...
* wens
uses self compiled kernel + debian rootfs
<tkaiser>
Therefore SoCs with many independent USB ports (like H3) will become attractive as a NAS even without SATA support
<KotCzarny>
wens, maybe its the reason you only get 2M on sata?
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<tkaiser>
I'll try to write some stuff into the wiki the next days.
<KotCzarny>
tkaiser, with uas, yes, still, sata in soc would multiply it by 4-5
<wens>
KotCzarny: unknown
<jonatan>
cd ..
<jonatan>
woops
<wens>
and it doesn't seem like a high priority issue for anyone
<tkaiser>
Nope, the A20's SATA implenentation (or drivers? or DMA?) is quite a bit limited. More than 45 MB/s write and 200 MB/s read I've never achieved
<KotCzarny>
a83 is not a20, and development usually tends to fix bugs
<tkaiser>
Combine this with the network throughput that's limited 'the other way around' and you'll realize that 40 MB/s are enough
<tkaiser>
A83T?
<KotCzarny>
yeah
<KotCzarny>
pity they chose so bad solution
<tkaiser>
Uninteresting. Only two USB ports, no SATA. Weird design
<wens>
it's a tablet oriented SoC...
<KotCzarny>
so were a10/a20
<tkaiser>
Of course. And obviously targeting chinese market demands. Combining 8 CPU cores with one slow GPU core
<wens>
a10/a20 were more general purpose i think
<wens>
a13/a23 were tablet oriented
<wens>
no hdmi, less USB hosts
<KotCzarny>
btw. not so long ago i've talked with my friend who visited china, what is top-tier in western shops, it's trash there
<KotCzarny>
(trash being old tech)
<tkaiser>
A83T as tablet SoC makes no sense. Either thermal throttling or insane high consumption. I bet we'll see the same with A64 again :)
<KotCzarny>
i wonder why they decided to drop sata anyway
<KotCzarny>
license fees? troubles?
<mripard>
it depends if you can have a sane big.little implementation, and you can properly shutdown your idle cpus
<mripard>
but I'm not sure they're quite there yet
<mripard>
KotCzarny: irrelevant for the targetted market?
<wens>
a64 is only 4x Cortex-A53
<mripard>
I was talking about the A83
<KotCzarny>
mripard: so raspberry success wasn't enough for them?
<KotCzarny>
because it looks like whole a10/20 thing was a response to raspberries
<mripard>
and the BCM2835 used in the rpi doesn't have sata.
<wens>
i guess sd/usb storage is enough for most applications?
<tkaiser>
KotCzarny: Regarding SATA, I would suspect they added it to A10/A20 more by accident just to realize that no one (of their customers) needs it.
<mripard>
the only relevant use of sata in embedded devices is for NAS
<mripard>
and it's not a market they are targetting
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<mripard>
so there's no point in having SATA in the first place
<tkaiser>
Exactly. And "USB is good enough" ;)
<KotCzarny>
hum
<KotCzarny>
nas enclosure market is pretty big
<KotCzarny>
and growing
<mripard>
especially USB3
<tkaiser>
But according to Tsvetan from Olimex they plan an A20 successor in the 2nd half of 2016.
<tkaiser>
Pin compatible to A20 but with 4 CPU cores.
<mripard>
KotCzarny: it's a pretty big market, but it's not something they're interested in :)
<KotCzarny>
with bug fixes? or just 2 cores slapped on in better process
<tkaiser>
NAS enclosures use different ARM SoCs: Marvell and RealTek.
<tkaiser>
If its pin-compatible it should be feature compatible. And maybe they nail the problem down that leads to slow SATA write speed on A20. We'll see...
<wens>
it can be pin-compatible, but sata pins are NC :)
<deskwizard>
^ I'd call that: probability #1
<deskwizard>
#2 would be same exact implementation we have now
<tkaiser>
Layer 2 or above, same with networking ;)
<NiteHawk>
hehe
<JohnDoe_71Rus>
does someone interest kitkat or lollipop for A20?
<deskwizard>
JohnDoe_71Rus yep
<JohnDoe_71Rus>
any success?
<deskwizard>
JohnDoe_71Rus, I know there was a someone from russia working on that, but I havent got any luck myself and lost interest in android a bit
<tkaiser>
NiteHawk: Regarding networking for example. I do this stuff for a living but didn't know what this "TX delay" thing is necessary for a few GMAC implementations need due to different trace lengths on the PCB.
<tkaiser>
We set this for a few boards but never considered RX delay.
<tkaiser>
Now with A64 Allwinner's 3.10.65 kernel contains settings for both: See lines 1345/1346: http://pastebin.com/9vpqVk9X
<deskwizard>
JohnDoe_71Rus, possible I was talking about you then
<JohnDoe_71Rus>
:)
<deskwizard>
there was someone on the olimex forum working on 4.4, but I couldnt get his kernel to compile back then, his changes are probably minor though, maybe you could check this out if you havent already
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<deskwizard>
not much I could do back then anyway hehe
<JohnDoe_71Rus>
deskwizard: my some last message in theme.
<deskwizard>
I remember seeing your last message, but they never released sources to that and I'm not using a cubieboard so I didn't bother
<deskwizard>
as far as I could find when I last checked anyway
<deskwizard>
s/to/for
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<KotCzarny>
tkaiser, maybe the low performance for sata is similar to the gmac troubles
<KotCzarny>
(i mean write performance)
<deskwizard>
KotCzarny, is the sata issue consistent accross different boards using the same SoC ?
<deskwizard>
wondering
<tkaiser>
deskwizard: Yes, it is
<deskwizard>
mkay
<tkaiser>
I tried it at least with Banana Pi, Lamobo R1, pcDuino3 Nano and Cubietruck
<tkaiser>
Performance depends on clockspeeds so if you happen to have a board that tolerates high CPU clocks (and DRAM clockspeed) you get 2-3 MB/s more
<tkaiser>
But the write bottleneck is somewhere else. Reading is possible with ~200 MB/s, writing max. 45 MB/s
<deskwizard>
I see, so probably not worth testing olinuxino-a20-micro also then
<deskwizard>
uhm I see
<tkaiser>
But with settings I wouldn't call reliable (overclocked DRAM on pcDuino3 Nano)
<KotCzarny>
well, olinuxino is different implementation, so its still worth a shot
<KotCzarny>
(with both legacy and mainline kernels)
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<tkaiser>
A20 is A20, mainline helps
<KotCzarny>
tkaiser, olimex guys tend to do internal testing more, and sometimes bad pcb trace can lead to problems
<tkaiser>
Since I'm not familiar with this 'low level' stuff embedded development is about, I have not the slightest idea where to look
<tkaiser>
But I would assume it can be a clock source thing, DMA or simply a few lines of code?
<deskwizard>
I wont lie to you guys, I have done some android compiles and all, but the linux side, is quite new to me, gonna go read some howto's on sunxi and I'll bbl to ask you guys how to properly test the same way as you pro's did
<tkaiser>
But in all these areas I'm a NOOB
<KotCzarny>
deskwizard: on sunxi wiki there is a benchmarking page with oneliners to try
<deskwizard>
tkaiser, seems there's more than one level of noobishness :P
<tkaiser>
are testing different things than you might want to ;)
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<KotCzarny>
hmm, will 5V work on TX/RX or i have to find 3.3V serial to usb adapter?
<NiteHawk>
3.3V - 5V might actually damage your SoC!
<KotCzarny>
is it named somehow? because i see many usb-to-ttl but unclear what level they are using (i guess 5v)
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<vishnup>
KotCzarny: it's better to meassure :)
<KotCzarny>
hard to measure the item at the sellers inventory ;)
<NiteHawk>
cp2102 and pl2303(hx) are used frequently. and normally it shouldn't be that much of a problem to find offers that explicitly list them as 3.3v
<KotCzarny>
hmm, i think i saw pl2303hx, but description said 5v
<KotCzarny>
ahm, it might be optional pin to power the device
<NiteHawk>
that's what i thought too - many of these have the usb (vcc) voltage available on the "red" pin (which you DON't want to connect anyway)
<KotCzarny>
i might get the pl2303ta adapter tho, as it has jumper selectable io voltage
<NiteHawk>
as vishnup said: if in doubt, measure it before hooking everything up
<KotCzarny>
another question, ir on bpi-r1 is receiver only or two way?
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<NiteHawk>
(CIR) receiver only, afaik. (at least that's how it is on bpi-m1)
<KotCzarny>
thx
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<KotCzarny>
noob question alert: to simulate simple button i can just short gpio pin with gnd?
<plaes>
KotCzarny: yes, but better use some smaller value resistor
<KotCzarny>
pleas, can you explain a bit more?
<KotCzarny>
what can happen if shorted directly?
<plaes>
you burn it
<KotCzarny>
hum, what value is recommended then?
<plaes>
dunno, although it might be possible that the PIN already has pulldown resistor
<plaes>
internal
<plaes>
120 ohm should be enough
<KotCzarny>
thx
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<KotCzarny>
is 18650 without overload/overdischarge protection safe to use with onboard battery charger?
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<jonatan>
Is there anything that can be done to get networking working on Orange Pi PC with armbians 4.4.0-rc4 image?
<tkaiser>
jonathan: Nope
<jonatan>
That is unfortunate :(
<tkaiser>
Just wait a bit... until next year ;)
<KotCzarny>
or find someone good with RE and code and sponsor them ;)
<wens>
tkaiser: that is assuming the cpu has enough power to handle all the USB traffic
<tkaiser>
Of course
<tkaiser>
Now with just cpu0 and default settings in 4.4.0-rc4 that looks pretty good
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<wens>
and usb0 (the otg one) might not get the same throughput
<wens>
still, have fun!
<KotCzarny>
tkaiser, did you test how stable is that usb solution under load? ie. if it doesnt hang/disconnect/corrupt?
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<KotCzarny>
i'm averso to any usb connected storage (never tried uas ones tho)
<KotCzarny>
s/averso/averse/
<tkaiser>
wens: I will. But I'll wait a bit until things stabilise and SMP works
<tkaiser>
KotCzarny: I would've never though that I recommend USB storage at all. But with UAS and mature code it looks good.
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<tkaiser>
Many problems with USB originate from the technology being dirt-cheap and people using crappy hardware as well.
<KotCzarny>
with multicore system cpu isnt a big limit anymore, so it might be interesting
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<tkaiser>
I'm thinking about ordering 3 more enclosures with JMS567 to do some real testing in a few weeks/months.
<KotCzarny>
dont burn your d5 ;)
<tkaiser>
Has to be planned since I've to organize a bunch of SSDs as well.
<KotCzarny>
when you do it it would be nice to see a features table (cpu, core count, usb (crippled with internal hub, uncrippled), throughput in sys, throughput via network)
<KotCzarny>
btw. does anyone know if 18650 (without overdischarge protection) can be safely used with a20 device? (specifically lamobo-r1, connected directly to battery port)
<montjoie>
for opipc it seems that I receive frame with my driver but without getting interupt for it, but it is a progress anyway
<plaes>
rpng?
<plaes>
or crypto?
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<montjoie>
emac
<montjoie>
emac h3
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<montjoie>
the crypto driver for h3 only give me zero output for the moment
<patap>
montjoie: does the h3 emac look similiar to something existing, like A20 gmac stmac?
<patap>
Or are writing it from scratch?
<montjoie>
I am writing it from scratch
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<GeneralStupid>
hi, i have an opi PC and i read that 670 Mhz ram freq are not stable
<GeneralStupid>
i got random hangs :)
<GeneralStupid>
so i want to clock it down is dram_para the right section?
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