<Colleen>
beach: drmeister said 2 hours, 5 minutes ago: In cstify.lisp it looks like there is a redundant (cstify (cdr list)) - is that the case?
gglitch`` has joined #lisp
jacking has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
dented42 has joined #lisp
jacking_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<beach>
ebrasca: You can avoid ugly docstrings in code by using #.(format nil "...") Then you can use the ~@ format directive that lets you indent the next line in the source code, but that indentation is not part of the string.
asarch has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<beach>
ebrasca: I have said this before, but I'll say it again: docstrings are typically meant for the user and not for the maintainer, but they are in a place where the user does not look and the maintainer has to. Therefore they are noise in the source code. For that reason, I use (SETF DOCUMENTATION) intsead and I put the docstrings in a separate file.
voidlily has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
randomstrangerb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
randomstrangerb has joined #lisp
saki has quit [Quit: saki]
voidlily has joined #lisp
<beach>
ebrasca: It is preferable to use signals other than simple errors so that client code can catch the errors by type. It is also great to provide restarts, so that client code can communicate with the library and invoke possible ways to continue.
<beach>
ebrasca: I'll still wait for the documentation of do-cluster and the functions.
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
CrazyEddy has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
dented42 has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
Oladon has joined #lisp
milanj has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
schoppenhauer has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
schoppenhauer has joined #lisp
fisxoj has quit [Quit: fisxoj]
tokik has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
milanj has joined #lisp
wigust has joined #lisp
Bike has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
daniel-s has joined #lisp
jacking has joined #lisp
jacking is now known as oxo1o1o1o
fikka has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
swflint has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
swflint has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
gglitch`` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
red-dot has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
red-dot has joined #lisp
terpri has joined #lisp
jacking_ has joined #lisp
jacking_ has quit [Client Quit]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
oxo1o1o1o has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
smasta has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
daniel-s has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
adolf_stalin has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
adolf_stalin has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ebzzry has joined #lisp
adolf_stalin has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
oleo has joined #lisp
acolarh has joined #lisp
damke has joined #lisp
<asarch>
clhs trivial-shell
<specbot>
Couldn't find anything for trivial-shell.
<asarch>
Thank you
<beach>
asarch: That is not part of the Common Lisp standard.
<beach>
asarch: And, because it isn't, it is not in the Common Lisp HyperSpec.
<asarch>
Using the standard, is it possible to execute a system command?
<beach>
No.
<asarch>
Oh :-(
<beach>
I am willing to bet that very few language standards would have such a function.,
<beach>
s/,//
damke_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
_cosmonaut_ has joined #lisp
<beach>
asarch: What other language have you used that has such a function in the standard?
<asarch>
Well, most of them: C, C++, Perl, Python and even ECMAScript
<beach>
I doubt that you have even read the standard of the C or C++ languages. Perl and Python don't even have one.
<asarch>
perl -e "system('ls');"
<beach>
I get really annoyed when Common Lisp is held to a higher standard (no pun intended) than other languages. People willingly program in languages that have no standard, and that can change at the whim of a single person. But then, when they program in Common Lisp, IT HAS TO BE IN THE ANSI STANDARD, or else IT DOESN'T EXIST to them.
<beach>
asarch: Perl does not have a standard as far as I know.
<beach>
asarch: By "a standard", I mean a document published by an independent organization that is not the one that provides the code for the implementation, so that the document can not change at the whim of the people delivering the code.
<beach>
asarch: Now, you obviously don't seem to know whether such a document exists for the languages that you cited, so why on earth would you require it to even exist for Common Lisp?
<stylewarning>
beach: I think in a lot of cases people simply do not understand the value of having an accessible language standard.
<beach>
Exactly.
<beach>
And that's why I am trying to educate asarch here.
<stylewarning>
beach: A frequent complaint about Lisp that I hear is, "There isn't a lot of Stack Overflow posts about it!" I usually respond by saying, "Fortunately, many answers to your questions can actually be found in the freely available language standard itself."
<asarch>
Well, that's because the Perl/Python "standard" is dictated by a benevolent dictator of life, but I just was wondering. How can I read the arguments passed to a program?
<stylewarning>
Unfortunately, from there, they're expecting some truly opaque standard, like the C++ standard. :)
<beach>
asarch: That is a very different question from the one you asked.
<beach>
asarch: I don't know the answer to it, but I believe UIOP has a function like that.
<stylewarning>
asarch: Arguments passed to a program is a Lisp-dependent thing. But the library that comes with ASDF, called UIOP, provides this.
<asarch>
Don't get excited, this is my first day at France and all I want is: "Excusez-moi monsieur, comment puis-je me rendre à la boulangerie?"
<beach>
asarch: I do get upset, but I have nothing against you personally. I get upset because, like I said, for some reason, people hold Common Lisp to a higher standard than other languages. And I am sure the reason is what stylewarning is saying, namely that people don't understand the value of an independent standard.
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
<beach>
asarch: So you should see my remarks as directed not to you personally, but to all the people who come here and complain about things that are not in the standard.
<stylewarning>
I've been toying with the idea of having a sort of de facto Common Lisp standards committee, to conservatively adopt already tried-and-true de facto standards in the form of CDR's.
<asarch>
Then, cheers! For this great and very exciting programming language o/ :-)
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<beach>
stylewarning: I have a project with similar goals. It is called WSCL (which stands for Well-Specified Common Lisp, and is pronounced like "whistle"). Have you seen it?
oxo1o1o1o has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
adolf_stalin has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
asarch has quit [Quit: Leaving]
adolf_stalin has joined #lisp
dec0n has joined #lisp
adolf_stalin has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
damke has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Karl_Dscc has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shrdlu68 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
deng_cn has joined #lisp
nika has quit []
solyd has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
smasta has joined #lisp
ninegrid has quit [Quit: leaving]
visof has joined #lisp
visof has joined #lisp
visof has quit [Changing host]
hiroaki has joined #lisp
smasta has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
acolarh has joined #lisp
shka has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
scymtym has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
pagnol has joined #lisp
mishoo has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
ninegrid has joined #lisp
pagnol has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
turkja has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
zooey has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
vlatkoB has joined #lisp
zooey has joined #lisp
damke has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
deng_cn has joined #lisp
oxo1o1o1o has joined #lisp
<makomo>
morning
<makomo>
how did megachombass compiler thing end? did he do it in time?
<makomo>
i also had a deadline until 23:59 yesterday, writing a codegen for a c-like language (given the parsing tree)
<makomo>
my teammate was supposed to do it, but he choked so i had to jump in (same thing happen in his previous exercise too)
solene has left #lisp ["Using Circe, the loveliest of all IRC clients"]
smasta has joined #lisp
<makomo>
what a ride it was. completely rewrote what he did (which wasn't much anyway) and managed to pull it off. in total ~9 hours of coding
<makomo>
(this probably should have been for #lispcafe, but i forgot :( )
smasta has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
fikka has joined #lisp
<makomo>
beach: WSCL seems interesting. found a typo in the README: "and is\ndesign so that each chapter"
turkja has joined #lisp
<pjb>
makomo: no, in a very classic way, the requirements increased tenfold as the deadline came closer.
<pjb>
makomo: the requirement was for the VM to be able to run the toy compiler.
<pjb>
makomo: it's not clear if it was "the" toy compiler, or "a" toy compiler compiling the same language.
<makomo>
and the vm was implemented by whom?
<pjb>
makomo: in any case, the existing VM was largely isufficient.
<pjb>
there was one guy who had fun implementing a toy compiler and a toy VM on github (I had same fun at least twice on usenet). Then his teacher took that toy compiler as an example in his compilation lecture.
<makomo>
actually, the thing i was doing is pretty similar. the code generation was done for an imaginary processor for which a simulator exists which is used to actually run the code and test the output of the programs
<pjb>
Either he keeps the compiler which is written in CL and uses sexps as is, and he needs a lisp VM with operations such as CONS, CAR, CDR, etc. Or he rewrites his compiler to use only integers, since the current VM only deals with integers. What's more, the current VM is not a Von Neuman architecture!
scymtym has joined #lisp
<pjb>
Namely, the program stored in memory cannot be written by a program in the VM, since as said, the VM only has integers, and the programs contain sexps!
safe has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<makomo>
ohh i see
<pjb>
So, in 22 hours, and being tired, I don't think many people would be able to do it from scratch.
<makomo>
but if the compiler is supposed to compile from Lisp into VM bytecode, couldn't he just compile the compile?
<makomo>
i suppose the compiler isn't powerful enough to handle all of the lisp constructs he had used in his compiler?
<makomo>
the compiler*
<beach>
makomo: Thanks.
<beach>
makomo: Fixed.
<pjb>
makomo: sure, but for this the VM must be able to run it!
<pjb>
makomo: the current compiler generates a sexp.
<pjb>
but the current VM cannot manipulate sexps. Only integers.
<makomo>
pjb: ohh so the output isn't real VM bytecode but a different representation
<makomo>
right
<pjb>
yes.
<makomo>
beach: :-)
<pjb>
It's funny, because we knew from the start it would be a failure… So many in the same situation…
zooey has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
Cymew has joined #lisp
zooey has joined #lisp
<makomo>
mhm. especially if the person is inexperienced and doesn't know what "to do next" or anticipate problems that might come up and avoid them before they occur
pjb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
marusich has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
shrdlu68 has joined #lisp
damke_ has joined #lisp
oxo1o1o1o has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
hhdave has joined #lisp
damke has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
marusich has joined #lisp
zooey has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
zooey has joined #lisp
dddddd has joined #lisp
Cymew has quit []
smasta has joined #lisp
chens has joined #lisp
chens is now known as Guest41304
smasta has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
lima4 has joined #lisp
Cymew has joined #lisp
Murii has joined #lisp
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
deng_cn has joined #lisp
varjag has joined #lisp
zooey has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
zooey has joined #lisp
marusich has quit [Quit: Leaving]
pjb` has joined #lisp
lima4 has left #lisp ["Bye ..."]
scymtym_ has joined #lisp
scymtym has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
shrdlu68 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
solyd has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
shrdlu68 has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
deng_cn has joined #lisp
manualcrank has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1]
nirved has joined #lisp
pjb` has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Amplituhedron has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<phoe>
Does CL have any kind of operator that applies FN consecutively to ARG N times and returns the last result?
Guest41304 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<phoe>
I'm thinking of utility libraries here since I don't think it's in the standard.
smasta has joined #lisp
<Shinmera>
(loop repeat n for x = foo then (fun x) finally (return x))
<beach>
You beat me to it by seconds.
<phoe>
Shinmera: I want to avoid NIH by writing that loop.
<Shinmera>
It's so tiny you're going to increase maintenance by using a library.
<fe[nl]ix>
a one-liner hardly counts as NIH
<beach>
phoe: Sometimes, it is easier to understand code if it doesn't refer to some external function that has to be looked up in the documentation. Especially short snippets like this.
shrdlu68 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
shrdlu68 has joined #lisp
smasta has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
raynold has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
milanj has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
krwq has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
red-dot has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
pradam has joined #lisp
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
deng_cn has joined #lisp
pjb` has joined #lisp
Amplituhedron has joined #lisp
red-dot has joined #lisp
zooey has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
wxie has joined #lisp
zooey has joined #lisp
markong has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
fikka has joined #lisp
wxie has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds]
oxo1o1o1o has joined #lisp
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
deng_cn has joined #lisp
<Cymew>
Everything can be done with LOOP ;)
whoman has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
smasta has joined #lisp
<loke>
Yes!
<loke>
LOOP
<Shinmera>
Cymew: Except legible code
<Cymew>
Shinmera: Well, I'm not going to defend it with much empahsis. :)
<Shinmera>
I'm joking anyway.
<Shinmera>
The opportunity for the burn was irresistible
<makomo>
lol
<Cymew>
I repeatedly tear my hair out over LOOP syntax, and smile like a fool when I get it right and it's just so clever.
damke has joined #lisp
<Cymew>
I still think it's a joke MOON played upon us all...
pjb` has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
smasta has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
damke_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<loke>
Cymew: LOOP syntax isn't very complicated.
<Cymew>
I still manage so mess it up
<loke>
I do remember feeling confused by it the first time I used it, but these days it's second nature.
<loke>
Cymew: Any particular aspects that are tricky?
<Cymew>
Nah, I just type what feels sensible and sometimes it never makes sense.
<Cymew>
I guess if. I did not dabble in DO it would become more natural.
shrdlu68 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
shrdlu68 has joined #lisp
<beach>
loke: (loop for x = y then ... for y ...) can be kind of tricky.
<beach>
Not the syntax. The semantics.
<beach>
Or perhaps I mean (loop for x = bla then (f y) for y ...) I can't remember the details.
<makomo>
beach: i think that example is from ANSI Common Lisp, right? :-)
<makomo>
actually there were 2 but extermely similar, differing only in the ordering of 2 lines or something like that
<loke>
beach: ah, you mean when you have (loop for x = (something y something) for y = (something x something) ...)?
turkja has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
milanj has joined #lisp
syssiphus has joined #lisp
pjb` has joined #lisp
milanj has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
zaquest has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
fikka has joined #lisp
turkja has joined #lisp
milanj has joined #lisp
red-dot has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
kamog has joined #lisp
red-dot has joined #lisp
<fe[nl]ix>
phoe: you can even use Series if you're adventurous
<phoe>
fe[nl]ix: not *that* adventurous
flamebeard has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
fikka has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
zaquest has joined #lisp
smasta has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
ghard` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<beach>
loke: Yes, a variable is used before it is introduced.
<beach>
makomo: I don't know. I have a few of those in code of my projects.
smasta has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
milanj has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
igemnace has joined #lisp
milanj has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
pjb` has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
Murii is now known as Murii
m00natic has joined #lisp
scymtym__ has joined #lisp
scymtym_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
Tobbi has joined #lisp
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
CrazyEddy has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
rumbler31 has joined #lisp
<beach>
ebrasca: It would be something that the user of the macro could read, and then he or she could use the macro without knowing how it is implemented. For example, in your case, it would document what variables the macro intentionally captures in the bodies that you pass it, and it would mention things like the fact that the code of the bodies is repeatedly invoked, how many times they are invoked, and how each invocation is different.
shrdlu68 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
red-dot has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
red-dot has joined #lisp
smasta has joined #lisp
smasta has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Bike has joined #lisp
Cymew has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Kyo91 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Cymew has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
oleo has joined #lisp
milanj has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
milanj has joined #lisp
Cymew has joined #lisp
shrdlu68 has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
<jackdaniel>
only sbcl and they regret it
red-dot has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
red-dot has joined #lisp
Murii has joined #lisp
Cymew has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
nullman has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
smurfrobot has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
nullman has joined #lisp
Cymew has joined #lisp
<makomo>
beach: since your documentation always looks solid, what's your opinion on literate programming?
asarch has joined #lisp
Cymew has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Ellusionist has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Cymew has joined #lisp
pjb` is now known as pjb
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
milanj has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<pjb>
makomo: just start your programs with #| and end them with |# Parenthesize the code parts with |# (code) #|
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<pjb>
Instant literate programming in lisp.
milanj has joined #lisp
smasta has joined #lisp
Cymew has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
FreeBirdLjj has joined #lisp
whyNOP has joined #lisp
<beach>
makomo: I think the original idea is completely bogus. It was necessary because Pascal requires a very strict order between definitions and instructions, and that order is contrary to how Knuth wanted to present it to the human reader. The language we use does not have that restriction.
Cymew has joined #lisp
<makomo>
pjb: hah
<beach>
makomo: So I guess my opinion about it will depend on how it is defined for a language such as Common Lisp.
<dlowe>
I kind of like the idea of an essay with code embedded in it that can be executed as a whole. But that's as a learning device, not as a programming practice.
<makomo>
beach: hmm. well if we put aside the fact that it was partly necessary because of Pascal's restrictions, what do you think about the general idea of literate programming: writing a book first and foremost and only then code
<dlowe>
I'm thinking of the forth compiler done in a literate style.
<makomo>
dlowe: yeah, i'm not sure how practical something like literate programming is when a program continues to evolve
<makomo>
i don't know though
<dlowe>
Otherwise it sounds like a gigantic error-prone waste of time
<makomo>
for example, the Axiom CAS system uses literate programming (and it's written in Common Lisp + a language built on top of CL called SPAD)
<beach>
makomo: Well, I don't think there is a temporal order like that. But I do agree that the communication with the maintainer of the code is more important than communication with the compiler, if that is what you mean.
smasta has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
f32ff has joined #lisp
<makomo>
and there's also a book called "Understanding MP3" that uses literate programming with C to implement a full-blown mp3 parser and player
<phoe>
I suddenly wished for a counterpart to REMOVE.
<pjb>
I mean, lispers even write books using sexps!
<beach>
pjb: So the challenge is to emphasize the communication with the person reading the code, while keeping the possibility of evolving the code.
<phoe>
Like, so it would keep things instead of removing it.
<dlowe>
I like to follow a practice of writing documentation first.
<phoe>
Is such a thing implemented in one of the portability libraries?
<pjb>
Yep. And do that with meta- or meta-meta- code! :-)
<phoe>
s/portability/utility/
Cymew has joined #lisp
<makomo>
pjb: something like Scribble?
randomstrangerb has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
sjl has joined #lisp
<makomo>
i've seen fare use it extensively
<pjb>
Yes, there are several such tools.
randomstrangerb has joined #lisp
<pjb>
ccldoc, the script I use to write my resume, etc.
<makomo>
that's very intriguing! :D
<pjb>
It's the SGML idea, only using sexps instead of SGML tags.
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
Cymew has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<Shinmera>
makomo: Generally I think the documentation and the code should be separate. The code is an implementation detail, and requires a different level of description than documentation. Mixing the two together (as with literate programming) thus seems like a bad idea.
Cymew has joined #lisp
<Xach>
Who was it who, when paul graham said that arc code was its documentation, asked him if "inverts a matrix" was clearer than the code for inverting a matrix?
<beach>
Shinmera: I think that depends on which type of documentation we are talking about.
deng_cn has joined #lisp
<Xach>
McCarthy? Norvig? Someone not as famous? I remember it as someone famous.
<beach>
Shinmera: Take a library for instance. The documentation for how client code should use it should be separate from the code.
rippa has joined #lisp
<beach>
Shinmera: But the documentation explaining why the code is written in a particular way should definitely by next to the code, i.e. the maintainer documentation.
<Shinmera>
beach: When I say documentation I generally mean the user-facing one. Documentation about the internals would be comments.
<beach>
Shinmera: That convention might not be shared by everyone.
<Xach>
mccarthy
<Shinmera>
Sure.
<makomo>
Xach: any references for that? would be interesting to read
<dlowe>
there should be at least three parts to documentation: a tutorial, a playbook, and a reference. The tutorial eases a user into what it possible, the playbook helps the user solve the most common problems, the reference has details for use once the interface elements have been selected.
<pjb>
Shinmera: agreed. But I would want tools to link the different parts and track the dependencies. Specifications <-> Analysis <-> Design <-> Code <-> Tests. So if you navigate to some place in the code, you get a window with all the relevant sections of the Specifications, the Analysis, the Design and the Tests. If you modify the Specifications, you get a list of all the places impacted in the Analysis the Design, the Code, the
<pjb>
etc.
Cymew has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<mfiano>
Xach: The matrix inversion slow path for non-orthonormal matrices is a sight to see ;)
<makomo>
Shinmera: beach: yeah, my opinion is pretty much the same
<pjb>
Shinmera: That was the idea behind the OO CASE tool Objecteering/Modelio; but it would probably involve more integrated tools, more like InterLisp…
<dlowe>
seems like something generateable via macro
<Xach>
that is a thing of beauty
<makomo>
my. god. :-)
<mfiano>
Well yeah, I said it was macroized :)
<pjb>
I would write the source code as: {\displaystyle \mathbf {A} ^{-1}={\frac {1}{\det \mathbf {A} }}\left[\left(\operatorname {tr} \mathbf {A} \right)\mathbf {I} -\mathbf {A} \right].}
<makomo>
";; Lots of juicy inlined crap."
<pjb>
and write the macros and function to compile that to efficient lisp code.
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<makomo>
:')
<Xach>
i like how the parens are like a rotated waveform
Cymew has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<mfiano>
But there is a fast path inversion for when a matrix is orthonormal, which is pretty short. luckily this is usually the case in graphics programming
Cymew has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Cymew has joined #lisp
shrdlu68 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
syssiphus has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Cymew has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<makomo>
and there's a nested backquote right below that comment
Cymew has joined #lisp
<pjb>
On the other hand, maths and physics code is a little different, in that 1- it's "well" specified and documented in maths and physics books ;-), and 2- we often want optimized code to implement those algorithms.
<pjb>
So basically readability doesn't import much; only to ensure that it's bug free.
<pjb>
If you can generate fast code, the better, but if not, just write it by hand as ugly as it is…
Murii has joined #lisp
<mfiano>
Xach: Do we have a rough eta for the next dist? Wondering if I have time during the busy work week to sneak in one last fix/feature to a library
terpri has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<Xach>
mfiano: probably tomorrow.
* Shinmera
didn't get any libraries done this month
* Shinmera
feels sad
<mfiano>
Ok, so overwork myself and probably introduce more problems than it solves :)
<Xach>
Think of it as an RSS test
Cymew has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
wigust has joined #lisp
attila_lendvai has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
Cymew has joined #lisp
smasta has joined #lisp
<ebzzry>
jackdaniel: why?
<Shinmera>
ebzzry: Because it broke some systems.
<jackdaniel>
a lot of libraries broken
<Xach>
I don't know about a lot - there are some that are broken, and some loaded too often, and many more warnings that I think are not very useful.
Cymew has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
m00natic has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<dlowe>
The road from a permissive reader to a strict reader is one filled with sharp edges and tears.
dieggsy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
oxo1o1o1o has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<phoe>
sharp signs*
red-dot has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
red-dot has joined #lisp
gilez has joined #lisp
<Shinmera>
So, who here is planning to attend ELS'18?
<Xach>
I am interested but not yet planning!
saki has joined #lisp
<Shinmera>
Would love to meet you in person again.
<beach>
Me and my (admittedly small) family are going to be there. I booked travel and hotel(s) a few days ago.
<jackdaniel>
I have already tickets and an apartment
Cymew has joined #lisp
<jackdaniel>
booked
solyd has joined #lisp
<Shinmera>
jackdaniel: beach: Where are you staying?
<beach>
jackdaniel: You and your wife may have to come to Malaga for dinner one of the days we are there. We are going to be in Marbella only from Sunday to Wednesday.
<beach>
jackdaniel: So we have several nights in Malaga.
<Shinmera>
It's within walking distance from the conference
Cymew has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
<Shinmera>
It's a bit of a shame that there was no good big hotel offer this time around. Having a party of lispers at the same place was really nice the previous two years.
<AeroNotix>
It's Spain, sleep on the beach
Cymew has joined #lisp
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
fikka has joined #lisp
dec0n has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
milanj_ has joined #lisp
deng_cn has joined #lisp
nowhereman_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
Cymew has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Chream_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
flamebeard has quit [Quit: Leaving]
milanj has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
solyd has quit [Quit: solyd]
Chream_ has joined #lisp
jstypo has joined #lisp
shrdlu68 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
nowhereman_ has joined #lisp
nowhere_man has joined #lisp
z3t0 has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
hiroaki has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
z3t0 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
z3t0 has joined #lisp
papachan has joined #lisp
z3t0_ has joined #lisp
_cosmonaut_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
z3t0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
fikka has joined #lisp
nowhereman_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
z3t0_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
z3t0 has joined #lisp
zaquest has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Chream_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
zaquest has joined #lisp
acolarh_ has joined #lisp
lima4 has joined #lisp
acolarh_ has quit [Client Quit]
Chream_ has joined #lisp
<sjl>
mfiano: sorry to rain on your parade, but defstar is GPLv3
<sjl>
so depending on it in an MIT licensed lib is probably impossible
EvW has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
<sjl>
if it's any consolation, I was surprised by the same thing, and regretfully spent a good hour tearing it out of all my stuff
<mfiano>
Yeah I want to eventually replace that, but I wonder how legal it is considering I'm not distributing it, but Quicklisp is pulling everything down on a user's machine.
<sjl>
I would think a court would consider that distributing. "The user's web browser requested foo.tgz from my server, I didn't push it to them" is similar.
<mfiano>
Would a court consider Quicklisp itself infringing on the GPLv3, having everything together in the quicklisp dir?
oleo has quit [Quit: Leaving]
EvW has joined #lisp
<dlowe>
the license interpretation depends heavily on what is considered a dependency of a program
oleo has joined #lisp
<dlowe>
so quicklisp doesn't depend on the programs it manipulates
<sjl>
Since quicklisp doesn't actually rely on the code, it just treats it as data, I doubt it would be a derivative work.
hhdave has quit [Quit: hhdave]
<oleo>
dam, clicked too fast and closed my irc client too...lol
<jackdaniel>
mfiano: there is a clear distinction between "derivative work" and a "mere aggregation"
<mfiano>
Ok then, I'll have to fix that
<sjl>
Someone should do a clean-room reimplementation of defstar (or something like it). It's a useful idea that more people would use if it were more permissively licensed.
<sjl>
Or maybe we should all just switch to Shen. Meh.
<mfiano>
Pushed high up on my priority list. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I recently went through my software and culled GPL dependencies, but apparently didn't look hard enough :/
<jackdaniel>
syntactic sugar is a death of parenthesis ;-)
<beach>
ebrasca: That is WAY better than it was.
solyd has joined #lisp
<jackdaniel>
but looks useful indeed
<ebrasca>
beach: But now I need to rewrite allmost all my code.
<mfiano>
sjl: I appreciate that you brought that to my attention. This is a huge deal as that library is a foundation for pretty much everything I write.
shrdlu68 has joined #lisp
<jackdaniel>
on the other hand I'm not sure if it can work as desired (that is – declamation being part of macroexpansion – does spec guarantee that it will be processed by a compiler?)
<beach>
ebrasca: That's part of the job description.
<sjl>
mfiano: yeah, better to discover it earlier rather than later
<Bike>
jackdaniel: i would assume the defun* expands into a progn of declaim and then defun?
<beach>
ebrasca: Just as the author of a book writes several versions before being content with the result, programmers often have to do the same.
karswell has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<dlowe>
it looks like it would be pretty trivial to duplicate under a more forgiving license.
<mfiano>
Oh books. I should have a few arriving today, yours included sjl
<beach>
I just realized, there must be some excellent flamenco restaurants in Malaga.
karswell has joined #lisp
<sjl>
Bike: it does expand into a declaim+defun, though there's more functionality than just the bare expansion
fikka has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<mfiano>
dlowe: Indeed. I only used it for brevity/laziness. I usually stay away from those sorts of libraries.
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<beach>
jackdaniel: That sounds like something we should do, i.e. take our wives to a flamenco restaurant in Malaga.
z3t0 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
BitPuffin has joined #lisp
<sjl>
it can insert check-type forms, handles optional/keyword/rest args, has pre/post-condition features
milanj_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<AeroNotix>
Does defstar allow for any optimizations? I.e. will the type hints tell the compiler to do anything different?
<jackdaniel>
beach: sounds like a plan :)
<sjl>
It would probably be not too tough to reimplement the basic typechecking api
milanj_ has joined #lisp
<sjl>
AeroNotix: depends on the compiler and the optimization settings. All it does it the declarations.
fikka has joined #lisp
MetaYan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<AeroNotix>
Purposefully not looking at the code
<AeroNotix>
seems like something relatively simple to implement when reading the README
visof has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
MetaYan has joined #lisp
deng_cn has joined #lisp
<sjl>
"seems simple to implement" is the programmer family crest
<AeroNotix>
yeah at first it seems simple. Not saying IS DEFINITELY simple.
<sjl>
I'll tell you that it's 1.3k lines of code
shrdlu68 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<sjl>
(I've already looked at the source when trying to track down a bug, so I'm spoiled)
shrdlu68 has joined #lisp
<AeroNotix>
unclean
hiroaki has joined #lisp
turkja has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
<sjl>
I think if you limit yourself to "make some macros that make type declaration less tedious" and ignore all the pre/post condition stuff you could do it in far fewer lines.
EvW has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<sjl>
But still, handling rest/optional/key args and defmethod/defgeneric args is nontrivial.
<AeroNotix>
yeah I just thought to make a toy which just dealt with positional args and basic declair/declaim expansion
<jackdaniel>
Bike: right, it've got confused a little
<AeroNotix>
seems like it would cover the majority of use-cases.
shrdlu68 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<sjl>
That sounds like a good start.
<AeroNotix>
Anyone familiar with dialyzer in Erlang?
<AeroNotix>
Has anything like that appeared for CL?
<AeroNotix>
Is code written by an AI derivative work? If I write an AI capable of writing code, who owns the code?
vyzo has joined #lisp
<AeroNotix>
or would that fit under the normal "compiler output is not covered"
<jackdaniel>
mfiano: llgpl is lgpl + preamble. also testing in court isn't a good argument – license is what it is - you have many countries and ruling may be different etc
shrdlu68 has joined #lisp
smasta has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
<jackdaniel>
AeroNotix: depends on the license. in case of GPL result of your code is not covered by the license
schweers has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<AeroNotix>
jackdaniel: yes, I assumed AI authored code would be covered in a similar way
<oleo>
are there any descriptions of libraries of quicklisp you can get at with quicklisp ?
<Xach>
oleo: no
<oleo>
ok
<mfiano>
I wonder how many MIT libraries actually steal code from incompatibly-licensed software without mention. babel makes me worried, especially since they never even fixed the problem they identified.
Tobbi has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<jackdaniel>
beach: promotinal video doesn't make it clear if it is a flamenco restaurant ;)
<beach>
Look further down. There is a video of a performance.
kolko has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<jackdaniel>
ah, much better
<beach>
And the menu looks great!
smasta has joined #lisp
<jackdaniel>
heh
red-dot has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
<jackdaniel>
I'm getting back to my cl-charms tutorial, see you \o
red-dot has joined #lisp
<beach>
So long jackdaniel.
<sjl>
jackdaniel: are you writing a tutorial for it? that would be welcome, it could use some additional docs.
<jackdaniel>
sjl: I'm also fixing some problems along the way
<sjl>
cool
<sjl>
I have some half-baked PRs for it I've been meaning to send.
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
milanj_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
deng_cn has joined #lisp
milanj has joined #lisp
<phoe>
Just to be sure: in GF dispatch, are EQL specializers more specific than class-based dispatch?
<jackdaniel>
hm, repository seems to be not very responsive
<ebrasca>
beach: Some hard probles in old abstration are easy to do now.
<Bike>
phoe: yah.
<phoe>
Bike: thanks.
<phoe>
That was my intuition but I wanted to be sure.
FreeBirdLjj has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Bike>
that's uh.... 7.6.6.1.2
FreeBirdLjj has joined #lisp
shrdlu68 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
Chream_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
FreeBirdLjj has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<beach>
ebrasca: Excellent!
shrdlu68 has joined #lisp
fluke`` has joined #lisp
fluke` has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
nowhereman_ has joined #lisp
lima4 has left #lisp ["Bye ..."]
varjag has joined #lisp
lima4_ has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
nowhere_man has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
nullman has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
nullman has joined #lisp
Chream has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
shrdlu68 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
shrdlu68 has joined #lisp
kami has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
lima4_ has quit []
milanj has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
milanj has joined #lisp
Jesin has joined #lisp
terpri has joined #lisp
raynold has joined #lisp
Chream has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
whoman has joined #lisp
visof has joined #lisp
Karl_Dscc has joined #lisp
Tobbi has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
jsambrook has quit []
smasta has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
smasta has joined #lisp
red-dot has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
red-dot has joined #lisp
Arcaelyx has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
Chream has joined #lisp
Myk267 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
_mjl has joined #lisp
shka has joined #lisp
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
nullman has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
nullman has joined #lisp
milanj has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Arcaelyx has joined #lisp
orivej has joined #lisp
deng_cn has joined #lisp
krwq has joined #lisp
milanj has joined #lisp
terpri has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
nowhereman_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
nowhereman_ has joined #lisp
Arcaelyx has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
solyd has quit [Quit: solyd]
Chream_ has joined #lisp
eivarv has joined #lisp
nullman has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
nullman has joined #lisp
damke has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
damke has joined #lisp
White_Flame has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
White_Flame has joined #lisp
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
visof has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
White_Flame has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
deng_cn has joined #lisp
White_Flame has joined #lisp
brendyn has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
heurist`_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
heurist_ has joined #lisp
mason has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
fikka has joined #lisp
red-dot has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
red-dot has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
smasta has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
karswell has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
karswell has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
smasta has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
jstypo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Chream has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
jstypo has joined #lisp
Amplituhedron has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
vaporatorius__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<krwq>
Thanks pjb! I didn't know about .swank.lisp but was planning to call something in emacs by myself :)
fikka has joined #lisp
wigust has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
Amplituhedron has joined #lisp
dented42 has joined #lisp
dented42 has quit [Client Quit]
deng_cn has joined #lisp
red-dot has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
BitPuffin has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jmercouris has joined #lisp
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
deng_cn has joined #lisp
eivarv has quit [Quit: Sleep]
terpri has joined #lisp
Folkol has joined #lisp
blackwolf has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
damke_ has joined #lisp
Chream has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
damke has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
spoken-tales has joined #lisp
d4ryus1 is now known as d4ryus
karswell has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
smasta has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
dieggsy has joined #lisp
smasta has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
Rawriful has joined #lisp
_mjl has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
Chream has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
whoman has quit [Quit: Leaving]
JonSmith has joined #lisp
JonSmith has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
JonSmith has joined #lisp
Hamps has joined #lisp
JonSmith has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
* Hamps
in this video you will see how to become an administrator on which network you want http://j.gs/ANj8
* Hamps
in this video you will see how to become an administrator on which network you want http://j.gs/ANj8
* Hamps
in this video you will see how to become an administrator on which network you want http://j.gs/ANj8
* Hamps
in this video you will see how to become an administrator on which network you want http://j.gs/ANj8
Hamps has quit [Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))]
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
fikka has joined #lisp
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Folkol has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
scymtym__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
smasta has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
deng_cn has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
nowhereman_ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
nowhereman_ has joined #lisp
nowhere_man has joined #lisp
nowhereman_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Rawriful has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4]
Rawriful has joined #lisp
Chream_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Rawriful has quit [Client Quit]
Rawriful has joined #lisp
spoken-tales has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
shka has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
eivarv has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
mishoo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
quazimodo has joined #lisp
fikka has joined #lisp
JuanDaugherty has joined #lisp
fikka has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
scymtym has joined #lisp
warweasle1 has joined #lisp
warweasle has quit [Quit: part]
warweasle1 is now known as warweasle
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
randomstrangerb has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
z3t0 has joined #lisp
randomstrangerb has joined #lisp
arbv has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
kupad has joined #lisp
rumbler31 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
raynold has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
vlatkoB has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
rippa has quit [Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER]
<stylewarning>
Hello friends.
<jmercouris>
hello!
arbv has joined #lisp
nox2 has joined #lisp
<papachan>
hello
<stylewarning>
What are y'all hacking on?
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<Xach>
I am hacking on building quicklisp dists from within a fresh vm, to shake out issues of lingering state
<Xach>
So much lingering state!
<Xach>
I am having an issue with cl+ssl not initializing properly for some reason.
<Xach>
this is my first try with debian 9.
Chream has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<jmercouris>
Can anyone remind me of the OS where every program runs as a standalone VM?
<Xach>
works fine on my debian 8 system
Murii has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4]
<jmercouris>
Xach: same packages installed in both systems?
<mason>
jmercouris: Qubes?
drewbert has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
<Xach>
jmercouris: Not entirely sure.
fikka has joined #lisp
arbv has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
nox2 has quit [Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org]
<jmercouris>
mason: Yes! Thank you
nox2 has joined #lisp
<mason>
jmercouris: It was on the edge of my memory but I couldn't recall, so I read down the DistroWatch list until it popped into focus.
arbv has joined #lisp
<mason>
Hey, a general question... Is there a CL library that will let me do line-oriented socket IO without threading or having to resort to manually buffering input until I see a valid line ending show up?
<jmercouris>
mason: I kept thinking "Balloons" was the name for some reason, all my queries involving balloons of course came up short :D
<mason>
TCP socket I/O I mean.
<mason>
jmercouris: Heh. But you had the right idea - simple shapes.
<mason>
jmercouris: Imagine the project developers' glumness when the recent kernel side-channel vulnerabilities were announced, obviating the security afforded by heavyweight VMs. :P
<mason>
So, no one's leaping up with an answer, and I have to wonder if I'm thinking about this wrong somehow. I'd think a line-oriented library would be the first thing anyone would want.
<Shinmera>
mason: You can use read-line on any stream.
hiroaki has joined #lisp
<mason>
Shinmera: But, won't that block? I want multiple sockets and I want a line returned when one's ready, but without explicit threading. So, implemented with select or similar.
nox2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<mason>
So: "Anyone have a line ready?" "Yes, here's a list of sockets and their lines."
<Shinmera>
That's completely different from what you first described
pmc_ has joined #lisp
nox2 has joined #lisp
<Shinmera>
And also I'd think that's too application specific to be "the first thing anyone would want"
<mason>
It's not entirely different. I didn't note the desire to not block, but it was implied by the "without threading".
<Xach>
I did that for communicating with DNS and http servers to set hard timeouts.
<mason>
I wrote one for Perl but now I want one for Lisp, and I don't see why I have to solve this each time. :P
hiroaki has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<Xach>
mason: basic-binary-ipc might help? i think it has some multiplexing things in it.
<Shinmera>
mason: Because you have constraints outside the norm?
<mason>
Xach: But yeah, that's what I've done thus far. It's all binary, I parse it and figure out when I've got a usable chunk to peel off.
<Xach>
Shinmera: Not really.
<mason>
Shinmera: I don't, actually.
<Xach>
mason: Sorry to suggest something I haven't personally tried - I've been meaning to. It might not suit.
Ellusionist has joined #lisp
<mason>
Shinmera: As I explained to you, I want something that damned near every network service does, only they all have to implement it independently, which strikes me as weird.
<mason>
Xach: Ah, will look.
<Shinmera>
mason: I'm just saying I'm not surprised it doesn't exist.
<mason>
I'll look at basic-binary-ipc
<mason>
and textproto and if all else fails I'll just write it myself and share.
<Xach>
mason: I go the binary route because I find it harder to handle trying to customize encoding error handling, line ending conventions, etc. for character streams, and I haven't had much luck with bivalent streams, but I can predict binary streams pretty well.
<mason>
Xach: You may have a winner there. I want to see how they implement it, but it initially looks right.
eivarv has quit [Quit: Sleep]
<mason>
Thank you all.
smasta has joined #lisp
<Shinmera>
mason: More libraries, even smaller wrappers to make things trivial to get going with, are always welcome.
z3t0 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
raynold has joined #lisp
z3t0 has joined #lisp
<mason>
Shinmera: I want to spend a little time with Xach's basic-binary-ipc suggestion, but if it doesn't quite fit I'll plan on contributing something.
<Shinmera>
Well, even if b-b-i does do the trick, it might need a bit of work out of which making a library might be useful.
thallia has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Jesin has quit [Quit: Leaving]
thallia has joined #lisp
nox2 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
hiroaki has joined #lisp
lima4_ has joined #lisp
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
randomstrangerb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
randomstrangerb has joined #lisp
varjag has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.2.1)]
Bike has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
nullman has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
nullman has joined #lisp
deng_cn has joined #lisp
lima4_ has quit []
Ellusionist has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Ellusionist has joined #lisp
nullman has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
nullman has joined #lisp
Kaisyu has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
nox2 has joined #lisp
sjl has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
z3t0 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
z3t0 has joined #lisp
cpape has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
LiamH has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
puchacz_ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
Ellusionist has quit [Quit: Leaving]
z3t0 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Karl_Dscc has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
nox2 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
rumbler31 has joined #lisp
z3t0 has joined #lisp
deng_cn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
karswell has joined #lisp
jmercouris has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
rumbler31 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
z3t0 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<norserob>
Hi, I am trying to use libdrm on linux from lisp. Looked at cl-drm on github, and it works ok for some sthings. But I want to access framebuffers, and it looks like I need to do some ioctl calls. So far this fails, not sure why. I put an example in a gist: https://gist.github.com/rfolland/6f0aba4171519881f938040d9d0f237b
zooey has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
z3t0 has joined #lisp
quazimodo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
moei has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
z3t0 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
damke has joined #lisp
Arcaelyx has joined #lisp
damke_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
pilfink has joined #lisp
sz0 has joined #lisp
Bike has joined #lisp
<Xach>
norserob: where does the constant come from
<Xach>
?
Chream has joined #lisp
zooey has joined #lisp
nullman has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
smurfrobot has joined #lisp
nullman has joined #lisp
wigust has joined #lisp
shifty has joined #lisp
papachan has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1]
zooey has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
smasta has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
zooey has joined #lisp
hiroaki has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
wxie has joined #lisp
karswell has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
smurfrobot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
dieggsy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
karswell has joined #lisp
wxie has quit [Client Quit]
<norserob>
Xach: I got it from a very instructive C program by D.Herrmann at https://github.com/dvdhrm/docs/tree/master/drm-howto. I printed the value from there. It is calculated by a macro, I'll need to look into that. But it looks like I'm getting there anyway now, I got a better result after setting some of the values on the struct before doing the ioctl call. Forgot to do that in the small example in the gist. I
<norserob>
think I might be ok now...
<norserob>
I want to get the examples by Herrmann working in ccl before moving on with my own stuff.
fikka has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
fikka has joined #lisp
pilfink has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.3.1)]