jackdaniel changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language<http://cliki.net/> logs:<https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp,http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | SBCL 1.4.5, CMUCL 21b, ECL 16.1.3, CCL 1.11.5, ABCL 1.5.0
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<Beepy> Is a dotted pair considered a valid list?
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<White_Flame> it will pass LISTP
<White_Flame> but I don't think "valid list" is a specific term in the spec
<White_Flame> whereas it wouldn't be a "proper list", because it's dotted. (unless the cdr of the dotted pair was NIL or another list)
<Beepy> Would you consider it a sequence?
<Bike> it is not a sequence.
<Bike> though it's of type sequence, i t hink
<Bike> confusing, yes
<White_Flame> the type LIST only really tests for consp or null, regardless of what the tail of the cons chains into
<White_Flame> but that doesn't mean that it'll fly regarding sequence operations, if it's improper
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<Bike> ah, there's "sequence" and "proper sequence", makes sense
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<White_Flame> "In general, lists (including association lists and property lists) that are treated as sequences must be proper lists. "
<White_Flame> from 17.1.1
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<White_Flame> and yeah, going through the sequences dictionary, the sequence arguments are always "a proper sequence"
<White_Flame> "proper sequence n. a sequence which is not an improper list; that is, a vector or a proper list. "
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<White_Flame> of course, there are some sequence operations like MEMBER that will stop when they find an element, so they won't break if the ending is improper
<White_Flame> that is, if they do early-exit
<Beepy> Would you consider that a bug?
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<White_Flame> no, I'd say that you're hiding your own bug if you go down those code paths
<Bike> not erring? no
<Bike> it's actually a specifically mentioned possibility
<Bike> clhs 1.4.2
<Bike> under "should be prepared"
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<aeth> In SBCL, I get a style warning, but it works (i.e. prints the elements)... until it gets to the end and then it errors: (dolist (foo '(1 2 3 4 . 5)) (format t "~A " foo))
<aeth> same here: (map nil (lambda (foo) (format t "~A " foo)) '(1 2 3 4 . 5))
<aeth> i.e. 1 2 3 4 ; Evaluation aborted on #<TYPE-ERROR expected-type: LIST datum: 5>.
<aeth> Except in the second one it doesn't print a style warning to the REPL
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<aeth> That's what you would expect if you want performance, by the way.
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
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<p0a> Hello
<p0a> I am trying to write some news software that makes reading news from reddit quicker
<p0a> I want also want it to have archiving capabilities
<p0a> so far I wrote something using drakma and plump. Drakma retrieves the pages and plump is used to find the news titles
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<p0a> my issue is that reddit has everything in 1 line, making it hard to read the HTML to track down the relevant information. What should I do?
<Beepy> p0a, maybe pipe the 1 line into an HTML formatter so you can read it.
<Beepy> Anyone know where to submit a patch for SBCL?
<p0a> Beepy: another issue is that I am not sure how to extract the important information
<p0a> For example, I've noticed that the news articles have an attribute in <a> that other links don't have, but in general it is pretty cumbersome to extract exactly what I need every time
<p0a> is that simply unavoidable?
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<Beepy> I'm not sure. I don't touch HTML at all.
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<p0a> hehe
<p0a> yeah it's pretty horrible
<p0a> Do you want to see the code I have so far? it's nifty
<Beepy> Sure
<Beepy> You can throw all of the quickload stuff into a list '(:drakma :plump ...)
<p0a> so it's pretty silly in what it does but the use is... you type (news) to get the frontpage news for the subreddits in the global var, and then you type (myread "worldnews") to read the titles of worldnews
<p0a> oh that's nic e
<Beepy> In get-sub, you use let*. Use a let there.
<p0a> but p uses s?
<Beepy> Oh yeah,
<Beepy> the indentation got me off
<Beepy> are you using spaces?
<p0a> I think it's out-of-the-box emacs lisp-mode
<p0a> I don't know what pastebin.com did
<p0a> looks like I'm using tabs
<p0a> well anyhow, thanks for the advice! I'll keep working on this some other time
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<MichaelRaskin> p0a: maybe look whether something like closure-css could be useful — you might be able to find someone who has written CSS selectors for that, and also Reddit's own CSS might be a hint. In general, data extraction from HTML has some amount of inherent (unless you control the other side…) complexity.
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<beizhia> Anyone have any recommendations for a tool to set up a common lisp project?
<beizhia> I see cl-project, quickproject, and eazy-project on quicklisp
<akkad> asdf
<beizhia> that's what I'm trying to use, but failing somewhat >_<
<beizhia> just trying to rig a single file and a some unit tests for it
<Beepy> beizhia, what problem are you running into?
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<beizhia> well tbh, I dont really know where to begin. Should I make a separate asdf package for my tests? And do I need to symlink my project's dir in ~/common_lisp so asdf will find it?
<beizhia> I think I might just be a bit spoiled by languages that set up the project structure for you, somewhat new to non-emacs lisp too. I just cant figure out what the normal thing to do it.
<Beepy> So you use defsystem
<Beepy> Let me find an example for you
<beizhia> an example would be sweet
<beizhia> been trying to find some on github
<beizhia> ooooh asdf knows about tests, I missed that
<beizhia> I think this is just what I needed Beepy, thanks!
<Beepy> Yep
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<jmercouris> White_Flame: any examples of tree based GA in Lisp?
<jmercouris> minion: memo for White_Flame: any examples of tree based GA in Lisp that you can point me to?
<minion> Remembered. I'll tell White_Flame when he/she/it next speaks.
<jmercouris> what happens if you make a memo for minion itself?
<jmercouris> and the content of your memo was "memo for minion"
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<_death> see: genetic programming
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<jmercouris> _death: I saw the first source before but was put off from the lack of indentation
<jmercouris> I'll load it into emacs and indent it so I can have a proper read
<jmercouris> This is pretty cool (https://github.com/jorgetavares/mini-gp) thanks
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<Xof> in years gone by, this channel would be a hotbed of eurovision discussion
<Xof> I feel old
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<pjb> Xof: nowadays, there's #lispcafe for that.
<aeth> There was a huge push to keep this channel on topic a few years ago.
<aeth> iirc.
<aeth> It is now very on-topic.
<aeth> Every now and then there's an extensive off-topic discussion that ends abruptly with "go to #lispcafe" and then I check #lispcafe for the continuation and it was not continued there.
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<pjb> Of course, the "go to #lispcafe" instruction arrives too late, and not everybody is there too.
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<on_ion> heh its basically "we dont want your kind here"
<pjb> No, it's really the want to stay on topic here.
<on_ion> anyone currently active in a convo can see the suggestion to 'go to #lc' , but most of us kind gentleman take that as a hint that we are Wrong.
<on_ion> or in the wrong place
<pjb> We've got a very bad example with #emacs.
<pjb> There it's almost impossible to have an emacs question answered, it's drown into off topic talk, almost all the time.
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<on_ion> we could say something like "lets filter all the non-lisp stuff out into #lispcafe, but please, for heaven's sake, let the lisp things remain here as well"
<pjb> Yes, of course, the worst, is when people talk CL in #lispcafe…
<on_ion> hm i find #emacs hardly noisy enough to miss anything \
<on_ion> heh
<on_ion> on another facet, i feel kind of powerful or important or special to have 4 lisp channels , actually 7, and at most one for anything else
<pjb> :-)
<on_ion> #lisp ##lisp #lispcafe #lispgames #ecl #sbcl ; aside from the last three which have their own cliques and themes, sometimes its hard to tell what comes from where or what goes to where. and to who and etc..
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<aeth> I was in ##lisp and #lispweb but left them years ago because they're kinda dead and I'm in too many channels (20ish)
<aeth> I am also in #clnoobs which very often is a bunch of Lisp veterans talking about deep details of the language.
<pjb> ok, perhaps we could keep a single room, but it would have to be a bigger room, so that each conversation could occur independenty, in a different corner of the window.
<pjb> We'd need a new irc client.
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<pjb> Somebody invented Second Life for this…
<pjb> Perhaps we should open a Second Life lisp room?
<aeth> no
<aeth> recreate the concept in Lisp
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<aeth> Except people still won't use it because it won't be pure Lisp because it will have to FFI into OpenGL and something like SDL
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<ebrasca> whe can implement someting like OpenGL in pure common lisp.
<aeth> The best bet would be Mezzano and the author, when questioned here a while back, said something along the lines that Vulkan is possible but OpenGL is basically too complicated.
<ebrasca> Yea he have said that.
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<edgar-rft> Let's wait a while until Vulkan becomes more complicated than OpenGL
<on_ion> and then one of those things change, now CL is out dated
<on_ion> one cannot simply ask nvidia for lisp opengl drivers for legacy chipsets for eg.
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<pjb> there's cl-cuda.
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<ebrasca> You can allways ask for someting.
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<theemacsshibe[m]> But what about what Mr Penguin said?
<theemacsshibe[m]> OpenCL would be more usable.
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<fittestbits> Hi, is there a preferred common lisp library for generating UUIDs?
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<bugrum> Hi, I'm interested in making a Quicklisp private repository and I haven't seen much documentation related to doing this. After some googling I have found a project called Quickdist that seems to do it, but I don't know if it follows the exact structure of what would be considered a proper Quicklisp private repo (i.e something that someone can use the ql client to just point to grab the projects). is the Quicklisp-controller pro
<bugrum> ject a good starting point to look into this?
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